Dance and Drama Awards

[Pas de Quatre]

Remember DaDA funding is only for the tuition fees, boarding/living costs are not covered, although some establishments do have bursaries/scholarships to help those with very low incomes.  So unless you are a day pupil there are still quite substantial amounts to pay.

[meadowblythe]

I did a few calculations on this ... 

 

Assuming the worst, and having taken your degree in dance you were unable to get employment, one option would be to study for a second, more academic degree.  Given you would have previous study (ie your BA in dance) and assuming you learnt via distance learning, this would cost about £10,000.  Compared with the cost of a DaDa + accommodation this looked feasible. 

 

My DS is year 11, the changes to Dadas didn't overly effect me as our income bought us out in broadly the same place.  I didn't want him to do a degree for social as well as academic reasons, but when it came to it, for us the dance training had to come first.  So yes he is on a degree course but it was such a brilliant fit for him that had to take precedence.  His plan B is to go into the forces if he can't get a position as a dancer.  And with his degree he will be able to go in as an officer!  Plan C is a part time job and a part time degree and I'll end up no worse off I have to support him in three years time rather than now.

[balletla]

Incase anyone hasn't seen or signed the petition yet, the link is below:

 

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/please-reconsider-the-new-changes-to-dada-funding

Edited April 20, 2013 by Ribbons

[carriecrafts]

This might not be relevant to those interested in classical ballet only but for those looking at the musical theatre route it may be.

 

I've had the following reply to my email to David Laws. My main point was that the Diploma courses are classed as 'Advanced Education' so students on them are not eligible for housing benefit (unlike students studying up to A Level who are eligible to claim it if they live away from home, as well as young people in or out of work...). The reason for this rule is so that degree students can't claim housing benefit instead of/along side student finance (fair enough ). I argued that Diploma students slip between the crack and should be eligible for one or the other. Many of the Diploma schools offer a BA and it seems there is little difference between the courses, so I argued that either the Diploma should be classed as 'Higher Education' thus making student finance available, or the Housing Benefit rules should be changed to rectify this anomaly. I made the point that even students who are talented enough (and eligible based on household income) to get a DaDA often have to decline the place as they cannot afford the living costs; so who exactly is the DaDA supposed to help? I'm please to read that the matter has been raised with the Dept for Work and Pensions

Housing Benefit of approx £80 per week toward rent/lodgings could make the difference between being able to take a place or not. This should be available to Diploma students whether they get a DaDA or not. I will follow it up but it wouldn't hurt to have more people contacting them to make the same point
Carrie.
(cross posting to NotaPushyMum)

Here is the reply:
"Thank you for your email of 14 April addressed to David Laws about the changes to the Dance and Drama Awards (DaDA) and the level of the Trinity College London (TCL) Diplomas - and the effect the level has on financial support and access to benefits. I am replying to your letter because the responsibility for DaDA sits within my team at the Department for Education (DfE).

As you are obviously aware, all DaDA students study for TCL Diplomas which are further education vocational qualifications set at level 5 and 6 on the qualifications framework. You rightly point out that this means they are classed as advanced (beyond normal further education) qualifications - so DaDA students are not eligible for housing benefit. We have raised this point with colleagues in the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) but I’m sure you will appreciate this is not a straightforward issue. Discussions are at an early stage and it is not yet clear whether there will be a satisfactory outcome for DaDA students.

The DaDA scheme contributes towards both fees and maintenance (living) costs, but the scheme has a finite budget and the support it can offer to students choosing to study at these private institutions is limited. As you set out in your email, students from families with an income of less than £33,000 are eligible to receive maintenance support. However, this threshold has not changed and is the same as the previous arrangements.

A small number of DaDA schools do offer students the opportunity to study for a degree alongside their DaDA funded course and this requires additional academic work to be undertaken alongside the TCL diploma. However, DaDA funding should not be used to support the costs of extra study needed to obtain the degree. We did consider whether it would be appropriate to bring the DaDA scheme into the higher education system. However, the strength of the scheme is that it can support talented young people aged 16 and over who do not have the academic ability to study for a degree. We therefore believe that continuing to support these talented but not academically gifted young people outweighs the disadvantages of DaDA students not being able to apply for a student loan.

Should you wish to explore what other avenues of support might be available you can contact the Council for Dance Education and Training (CDET) or the National Careers Service (NCS).

CDET can advise on vocational dance and musical theatre training and the various routes into the profession. CDET can be contacted on 0207 240 5703 or via their website at http://www.cdet.org.uk.

NCS may also be able to advise on whether there are companies or charities currently offering any alternative source of funding support. More information about NCS can be found at: https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk or on 0800 100 900.

Some DaDA schools also offer additional support to students either financially or in approaching companies and charities that may be able to help.

I appreciate that this is not the response you were hoping for, but in these difficult economic times there are significant constraints on the extent to which Government is able to support young people who attend private education providers."

[hfbrew]

Very impressed by your points Carriecrafts.

 

Seething at the reply- especially the tosh about the not academically gifted. Apart from the fact that dancers have to be extremely intelligent to succeed its basically saying that if you are not academically minded you can't get benefits/loan. Not really expressing myself clearly I know but its madness that a 16 year going to say Central, or Rambert can access loans but those going to DaDa institutions can't get any benefits at all- not even family allowance in some cases.

 

aaaaaagh!

[ZooZoo]

This is probably a bonkers suggestion, but for people with a household income of, say, £80,000 would it not be better to drop salary (eg. work 4 days a week) so as to qualify? If you earn £69k, the contribution is £7,000 or so, but is that for everything or everything except boarding?  How much does training cost?  £30k say?  so if you drop salary of £10k do you "save" £23,000 (net?).  I think that I have confused myself!  If you have to pay for boarding anyway, then how much is that?

[Jazzpaws]

Very impressed by your points Carriecrafts.

 

Seething at the reply- especially the tosh about the not academically gifted. Apart from the fact that dancers have to be extremely intelligent to succeed its basically saying that if you are not academically minded you can't get benefits/loan. Not really expressing myself clearly I know but its madness that a 16 year going to say Central, or Rambert can access loans but those going to DaDa institutions can't get any benefits at all- not even family allowance in some cases.

 

aaaaaagh!

Seething away too !!!

[dramascientist]

ooooooh! How dare they imply just because you are a talented dancer you are not academically gifted! My DD learnt an extremely difficult foreign language in six months so she could take up a place at ballet school and scores grades above some native speakers especially in maths and science! I know she is not he only one since there are dancers like Henry Perkins who studied at the Bolshoi in russian as well as I think other DDs whose parents are members of this forum, Grrrrrr!

[balletla]

The pompous twit! I accept that these students have not chosen an academic route but that does not mean that they are not academically gifted, just that they have chosen not to pursue an academic route.

 

I am always amazed by how academically clever most dancers are - my daughter and her dancer friends are all predicted to get top grades at GCSE and all could easily go to university. You have to be intelligent to dance well and it teaches them discipline and focus....and most of them do it in half the time as well because they have to spend so much time dancing!

 

Note the emphasis again on "choosing a private provider". Hello! There is no other choice!!!!

 

I hope people are still writing to David Laws so that at least he has to keep getting people in his team to write the same thing over and over again. They might get fed up eventually and do something about it!

Edited May 8, 2013 by Ribbons

[afab]

In most vocational schools in France, you only get a place if you are academically gifted as,according to the schools, it wouldn't be possible for students to follow the same academic programme as non dancers in half the time!

 

DD who is auditioning at POB next week has to bring her school report with her!

Edited May 8, 2013 by afab

[carriecrafts]

As the parent of a dancer who is very intelligent but hates written work with a passion, I'm not actually that cross about the comments (I'm not saying you shouldn't be (-; ) Whilst being a talented dancer doesn't exclude academic ability (quite the opposite, as many have pointed out) they don't say that all talented dancers aren't academically gifted, just that the DaDA 'can' support those who are not. At a Laine's open day they said that they wouldn't offer a degree because they want to avoid any academic element. I'm currently studying for an Art degree and sadly there are talented young artists dropping out because there is too much written work...

 

Having said that, Rambert and Central both admit 16yr olds onto degrees, based on audition, so they obviously are not too worried about academic excellence (I know this is the case as I have communicated with both schools on the subject of GCSEs).

 

My main motivation for writing to David Laws was that I object to the discrimination regarding access to benefits. If my daughter leaves home now while on a BTEC/A Levels she would get housing benefit... If she leaves home and works in a low paid job, or registers unemployed, she would be eligible for housing benefit... If she does a degree she gets student finance... If she studies a DaDA Diploma she gets nothing... I actually think that this is an oversight in the housing benefit regulations, rather than intentional, and I think there is hope of getting it changed now that it has been referred to the Dept for Work and Pensions. I'm currently trying to establish what other courses fall into this category (higher than A Level but not eligible for student finance) in order to back up my argument.

 

Currently it is a postcode lottery; some DaDA schools are in Council areas that grant HB even though they are not obliged to. Students have challenged the Councils where they don't grant HB and the Councils' decisions have been upheld at appeal because of the regulations and DaDA students have then had to decline places because of the cost of living :-(

 

bws

Carrie

[Jazzpaws]

As a matter of interest, does anyone know which councils will grant HB to DADA students

[2dancersmum]

Our local MP has also raised the issue with Work and Pensions.  We took that option last year after learning DD would not be eligible for housing benefit and she also felt that it was an oversight or hole in the system.  It is students on a level 6 diploma course (regardless of if they have a DADA or are self funded) who get no financial help because as carriecrafts say you only get HB in further education and no student loans.  Our DD is actually also doing A levels but they are discounted in the calculations because the more advanced diploma overides them.  Personally I feel that Work and Pensions need targeting every bit as much as those responsible for the DADAs.  A little help with accommodation costs will help offset the rise in DADA contributions for many.  I think there is a cap on the amount of HB depending on age though so I think it less than the £80 per week mentioned

 

 

edited for spelling and last sentence.

Edited May 9, 2013 by 2dancersmum

[carriecrafts]

Our local MP has also raised the issue with Work and Pensions.  We took that option last year after learning DD would not be eligible for housing benefit and she also felt that it was an oversight or hole in the system.  It is students on a level 6 diploma course (regardless of if they have a DADA or are self funded) who get no financial help because as carriecrafts say you only get HB in further education and no student loans.  Our DD is actually also doing A levels but they are discounted in the calculations because the more advanced diploma overides them.  Personally I feel that Work and Pensions need targeting every bit as much as those responsible for the DADAs.  A little help with accommodation costs will help offset the rise in DADA contributions for many.  I think there is a cap on the amount of HB depending on age though so I think it less than the £80 per week mentioned

 

 

edited for spelling and last sentence.

 

It would be great if more people could contact their MP to point out this 'oversight' in the Housing Benefit regs :-)

 

I understand that the amount is limited to the cost of a room in a shared house for under 25s, rather than the cost of a self-contained flat. One parent told me that their daughter received £80 but it will depend on the rents in each particular area. Still every bit helps :-)

[carriecrafts]

I have just sent the following reply to the Dept for Education in response to their email:

 

"I am pleased to read that the issue of Housing Benefit eligibility for students studying a TCL Diploma has been raised with DWP. I would be grateful if you could forward my correspondence to DWP as you have already raised the issue with them and request that they correspond with me directly if you prefer.

 

I understand that the issue may not be as straightforward as it seems but I am hopeful that this problem is caused by an oversight in the regulations rather than an intentional decision. The regulations ensure that those young people following the standard educational route, of A Level followed by Higher Education, have access to maintenance support at all stages of their education or training. It seems clear to me that the reason those studying above A Level are ineligible for HB is to prevent HE students from claiming HB instead of, or along side, Student Finance. However, those studying above A Level, but not within Higher Education, have been overlooked.

 

A young person living independently would be eligible for Housing Benefit if they were studying A Levels or a BTEC. They would be eligible if in a low paid job or registered unemployed. If studying for a degree they would access Student Finance. It seems discriminatory to prevent young people from accessing both HB and Student Finance based on their choice of course and I am hopeful of a satisfactory outcome."

 

Fingers crossed but not holding my breath...

Carrie

[Tutudesigner]

Carrie so glad you have re-ignited this discussion, the gap in conversation from 20 April to 7 May was worth waiting for, well done! I will get on to my MP again.

[Jaylou62]

I've just had a reply back from my MP to say that she will contact the Work and Pensions Dept on my behalf about the above issue and will let me know when she has a reply I will let you know that response when I receive it in due course!

[2dancersmum]

Just had our response from David Laws via our MP and it does not offer really offer any hope but is at least worded a lot better than the letter quoted in a previous post.

re housing benefit it states :Government policy is that students studying higher education courses should not be supported by the benefits system.  Similar cases (to our DD) are the subject of appeals to be heard by a tribunal under the HM Courts and Tribunals Service.  The Government will look at the treatment of students on these courses in light of the tribunals decision.  Tribunals in the past have confirmed the original decision" (ie no benefit)  It goes onto say that loans are only available on designated higher education courses and that the schools need to work with a university to arrange validation and designation of the course as a degree if they wish students to be eligible for loans - with an additional academic content.  It says they have considered if it is appropriate to bring the Trinity Diplomas into the higher education system more widely "on reflection, however, we identified significant benefits of having a scheme available at private institutions - which we support via DADA scholarships - for talented young people whether or not they have the academic preparation required to study for a degree.  We felt that these benefits outweighed the disadvantages of these students not being able to apply for a student loan."

 

So no good news but the tone is a lot better than our initial response and no longer suggests we are just choosing private education

[Jazzpaws]

It is a nicer reply, but it seems to me that the Trinity Diploma can be higher education when it suits ( in that benefits are not available) or not (in that student finance cannot be applied for). Talk about having it both ways. No help to any parents

I am presuming that when it comes to child benefits and child tax credits, The Trinity Diploma would then be considered higher education, or is that just a silly question .

[Jazzpaws]

Awards are tight enough, and then i found this little gem on the DFE website about how providers, the colleges. can manage the award,.he award is paid to the provider and then they can retain 5% as an admin fee

 

" T17. Any provider administering the DaDAs may use up to 5% of the total (new 

students) allocation to meet administration costs "

 

I think that is a lot

[carriecrafts]

Just had our response from David Laws via our MP and it does not offer really offer any hope but is at least worded a lot better than the letter quoted in a previous post.

re housing benefit it states :Government policy is that students studying higher education courses should not be supported by the benefits system.  Similar cases (to our DD) are the subject of appeals to be heard by a tribunal under the HM Courts and Tribunals Service.  The Government will look at the treatment of students on these courses in light of the tribunals decision.  Tribunals in the past have confirmed the original decision" (ie no benefit)

 

I had an identical reply earlier this week. I have since contacted DWP directly on the email address provided by DfE: ministers@dwp.gsi.gov.uk

 

I have told them that I believe that the tribunals are correct in their findings, as they are following the regulations, but that the regulations themselves are flawed and need to be amended to rectify the discrimination against a minority of students who have been overlooked    Also the Diploma is officially classed as 'Further Education' not 'Higher Education'. The problem is that the regulations use Level 3 (A Level) as their watershed, rather than the term 'Higher Education'... That is what needs changing, it would be so simple!

 

This is what I have sent them, please feel free to use any bits that may be useful, afterall they are sending us identical replies... I think this is about volume of complaints rather than originality :

 

I have been corresponding with the DfE regarding the Trinity College London Diploma and Housing Benefit ineligibility (all correspondence is copied at the end of this email for your information) and am now directing my concerns to you.

 

The most recent email from DfE states:

"As you are aware this issue arises because the Trinity College London (TCL) Diploma is categorised as being a course equivalent to Higher Education, therefore the relevant Housing Benefit regulations exclude students of such courses from entitlement, because the Government's policy is that students studying Higher Education courses should not be supported by the benefits system."

 

I understand the rationale; Higher Education students are entitled to student finance to support them through their studies and should therefore not be supported by the benefits system. However, TCL Diploma students are not Higher Education students and are therefore not eligible for student finance.

 

The TCL Diploma qualification is classified as Level 5 or 6 but the newly issued 'Dance and Drama Awards, Q&A for Providers (March 2013)' http://media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/d/dada%20qa%202013-14%20-%20final.pdf clarifies that the TCL Diploma is a Further Education qualification, not a Higher Education qualification:

" The EFA DaDA scheme is a Further Education (FE) programme and Awards can not be made available for students to undertake Higher Education (HE) degree courses."

 

The most recent email also states:

"DWP colleagues have confirmed that cases, about students on courses such as the TCL Diploma not being able to claim Housing Benefit, are the subject of appeals to be heard by a tribunal under the HM Courts and Tribunal Service. The Government will look at the treatment of students on these courses in light of the tribunal's decision, but tribunals in the past have confirmed the original decision that such students are not entitled to Housing Benefit. It remains likely therefore that students studying these TCL qualifications will not be able to claim Housing Benefit."

 

Whilst I understand that the appeal findings are correct based upon compliance with the Housing Benefit regulations, I believe that the regulation on which these findings are based is flawed as they discriminate against a particular group of people based on their choice of course.

 

The regulations ensure that those young people following the standard educational route, of A Level followed by Higher Education, have access to maintenance support at all stages of their education or training: A young person living independently would be eligible for Housing Benefit if they were studying A Levels or a BTEC. They would be eligible if in a low paid job or registered unemployed. If studying for a degree they would access Student Finance. However, those studying above A Level, but not within Higher Education, are a minority and have been overlooked. It seems discriminatory to prevent young people from accessing either HB or Student Finance based on their choice of course. I presume that this discrimination is an oversight due to the non-typical educational route and I suggest that the regulations be reviewed to remove this discrepency.

 

End quote.

BWs Carrie

[carriecrafts]

It is a nicer reply, but it seems to me that the Trinity Diploma can be higher education when it suits ( in that benefits are not available) or not (in that student finance cannot be applied for). Talk about having it both ways. No help to any parents

I am presuming that when it comes to child benefits and child tax credits, The Trinity Diploma would then be considered higher education, or is that just a silly question .

Again I think they use the term 'above Level 3' rather than Higher Education as the cut-off... clever eh?

[pas de chat]

I dread the cost of sending my daughter to vocational ballet school if she is lucky enough to get into year 9.  I lie awake at night just wondering where the money is going to come from every year.  Her dream is to become a ballet dancer but children really have very little idea what things cost and probably at the age of 10 shouldn't have to worry about it.  I know many dancers who are very intelligent and have achieved well at school but if my daughter was in the same boat looking at the current system of funding I would not continue to encouraged her to be a dancer.  

 

Instead my DD is very dyslexic and struggles at school coming bottom in most of her subjects and often gets teased as they think she is stupid.  The one thing that keep her bright eyed and bushy tailed is the fact she knows she is a lovely dancer and as the years pass the harder she works at ballet the more she achieves.  All her teachers at school say she works the hardest of any of the pupils but the results just aren't forthcoming and will probably never will be.  

 

I think one thing the government (which I appreciate is tightly stretched as I work in the NHS) does not understand is how committed these young children are and how hard they work.  They have the most powerful work ethos of any children I have ever met and I'm sure are like young swimmers/gymnasts.  They dance hours every week and often travel miles to get to dance programmes.  They give up parties, school trips, sleepovers, television, video games and cram in homework whenever possible.  If I were in government these are the types of attitudes I would want to support rather than all these airy fairy half bakes degrees people go on where they only have 10 hours of study per week.  I'm sure I read a thread somewhere recently about a oxford student who works in a surf shop - this would not surprise me?!  I know some people think that dance is a luxury but the dance industry is huge all over the world and bring in millions and millions of pounds to the UK economy.  For my DD dance offers her a shining light which for her may one day be possible unlike many careers which will always be out of her reach.  

 

I'm not saying if you are academic don't follow your dreams to become a dancer - go for it!  For me personally looking at how much all these mums/dads struggle to find funding and how the funding can change so rapidly I cringe at the thought.  I think about that Welsh family who sold their house and then had to pull him out of Elmhurst.  How dreadful!  I read the other day about one of the BRB ladies leaving to become a midwife after all the training at Elmhurst.  Although I'm pleased for her and it is a wonderful and rewarding career ( I work with many MVs) but I felt for the parents and wondered did they struggle to send her there for years and what did they give up to do it?

 

Anyway after a long ramble good luck to all of the girls/boys who are struggling to make a career in dance or even just get to a training school.  Your perseverance is a credit to you and your parents and those who work hard will always get there in the end even if the government just doesn't quite get it.  Our dance teacher often works seven days a week and then teaches at summer schools during the holidays.  These are the type of people you will become and our country should support your determination and work ethics.

[Dragonlady]

My DD is currently in year 11 at Hammond and yesterday they all had an organised trip to the houses of parliament and a chat with an MP as part of a trip to London.

 

Needless to say the subject of DADA's was brought up (as they are all affected one way or another) and the reply from the MP (although a bit woolly) reported second hand from DD, he indicated that this was part of a bigger budget cut for all forms of the arts  and that, although the DADA's would be looked at as part of the review for next year, he didn't hold out much hope for an increase in budget.

 

Exactly what this means for next years students is very unclear but he did acknowledge that there had been problems with this years DADAs and that they would look at the entire system again...not much help for this years students though

 

Trudi

[robin64]

Pas de Chat, I empathise with you as my dancing DD is dyslexic too. New government plans for GCSEs look to penalise these pupils further with deductions for spelling in all subjects inc things like science. I agree about work ethic. My DD puts hours of dance in plus all her homework which takes longer anyway. DD is bright and at a grammar but she just cannot remember spellings at all. It's a really unfair penalty.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/feb/05/dyslexia-gcse-exam-spelling

[robin64]

btw sorry to go off topic but it is just another example of lack of thought in these decisions.

[Jan McNulty]

Pas de Chat, I empathise with your feelings but I must say that if I was a parent of the young lady planning to retrain as a midwife I would be extremely proud of her. I know from reading "doing dance" over the years the sacrifices children and parents make so the child can live the dream but at the end of the day it is the child's life. To have not one but two such vocational careers is IMHO a wonderful thing. Sorry to go O/T but I feel this is important.

[robin64]

Janet I agree and also I think that knowing re training in the future is another possibility might be a source of encouragement to young dancers. You can risk following your dream because if you want or have to do something different later you can.

[carriecrafts]

Sadly those last few local authorities who supported Diploma students (with or without DaDA) with housing benefit are no longer able to do so, even if they would like to. The DfE's DaDA guidelines say that these diplomas are 'Further Education' so student finance is not available, the DWP and the recent Tribunal say these diplomas are 'Higher Education' so students are not eligible for housing benefit... See article below

It seems to me that the only students who can make use of DaDAs are those who live with a low-earning parent but also have support from a separated wealthy parent or relative.

 

I have been writing to both DfE and DWP, also started tweeting about it, but not getting anywhere. Just hoping that Laine's feel strongly enough now to kick up a real fuss and force a rethink.

 

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/topstories/10609326._Catastrophic__end_to_housing_benefit_for_performing_arts_students/?ref=nt

[2dancersmum]

This might be new for Laines students but at least they have had housing benefit for the last few years from their council.  Elsewhere in the country councils have been following the legal ruling from Tribunals a few years ago and the level 6 diploma students had their housing benefit stopped 2 years ago or more.  I don't agree with the ruling whatsoever but sadly I feel that nothing will change on the basis of Laines reaction.  This news about Laines just brings their students in line with all the students and colleges who have already been affected by it.

[Guesty]

I am a single parent who has never had support from the dad. He lives in another country. I have talked to friends with two parents going to the same vocational school that my dd will start at in sept and their invoice is simply double what i have to pay. Yes we will get a maintenance grant to help accommodation fees but i also lose all tax credits so its all relative.

My point is that just because you are single and lower income does not mean its easier for us to afford or we get more.

Everyone can research grants and gain additional funding if you put the time and effort in.

I have learnt from a great fundraiser to write to as many people as you can...worse they can say is no!

I worked out how much i spent last year in dance lessons, associate classes, festivals, costumes, exam fees, travelling costs, private lessons...and it was a lot!

I think we see the invoice and forget how much we pay out each month...plus other costs that build up when our dc are home.

I think for the specialised education that these schools give we do have to pay. Its our choice to audition for them after all.

Yes in a perfect world free training should be given to specialised areas...but where would it stop?

We pay through our taxes so would everyone be happy to pay more tax even tho their child isn't specialising in our chosen field? I think not.

Plus...the best of the best sometimes don't make it...they decide to go another route, get injured, decide it doesn't pay enough ha ha...whereas someone with drive ambition and love for dance will.

lots of variances.

Sorry for rant but i do feel its our choice.

Dont pertain that its easier for my dd to attend v.school than someone who has a higher incomeas believe me its not. You just have to set goals. Budget well and be organised. I haven't had a holiday in years but supporting my dd is more important to me.

Holidays can be had in the future when i win the lottery ha ha.

just wanted to give a my thoughts ...i feel we are all in the same boat...regardless of income.

Remember our dc are getting top class private education with the chance of reaching their dream.

 

All i want is happiness for them and the chance to get there.

[carriecrafts]

I don't think anyone is suggesting it is easier for families on low incomes, certainly not me - which is why I suggested that a wealthy absent parent or relative would be necessary. Low income families have far less flexibility in choosing to make cuts or sacrifices in order to fund vocational training. Add other children to the equation and it is even harder I'm struggling to see how we could fund the living costs. Well done for finding a way that works for you.

 

Yes, it is our (or our dc's) choice, but there is very little opportunity for them to pursue this level of training through state supported institutions. Another of my daughters is enjoying the highest quality education in law at Oxford, all funded via student finance which she will only repay if she earns above a given threshold. It would be nice if the same opportunities were open to all, whatever their choice of career.

 

Any advice on fundraising most welcome! :-)

[HAIRBELLES]

Can anyone tell me if you lose you child benefit ...this may have been covered on here before.

I cannot get a straight answer from my tax office as level 6 Diploma is not on their list ,honestly I despair.

I find it ridiculous that for a 16yr old it is classed as higher not further education,unlike some of the 18 yr olds she wont even have any A levels when she goes to college , it is an absolute minefield when every penny counts.