Dance and Drama Awards

[Millie3]

Just found this:

 

Dance and Drama Awards From 2013

The Department is currently reviewing the support available for the most talented young people and adults to access specialist dance and drama provision.

Students who audition to start in September 2013 will study under new DaDA scheme arrangements. DaDA will continue to support students who show, at audition, that they are the most talented and likely to succeed in the industry.

If offered an award, the amount of support for fees and maintenance received will be based on an assessment of family income. The income assessment will be undertaken by the appropriate DaDA school, using nationally set levels and guidance.

 

on http://www.education.gov.uk/childrenandyoungpeople/youngpeople/studentsupport/a00203099/dada-scheme

 

Can't find the info anywhere about the nationally set level of fees with regard to family income. Anyone any idea where it is, or has it not been published yet?

 

DD off to audition at Hammond tomorrow, so hopefully they'll shed some light on it. I just hope we can still afford it if she is fortunate enough to be offered a dada.

 

Millie

[swanprincess]

I will be auditioning for 2014 entry but am slightly concerned about the family income thing. My parents are divorced, so my mum (who is on quite a low wage anyway) lives with my stepdad. My mum wouldnt want my stepdad to have to contribute towards hefty ballet school fees; would the DADA take this into account and only consider my mum's income, even though the total household income is different??

[taxi4ballet]

If it's anything like tax credits, they will keep it so cleverly hidden no-one will be able to find it. They deliberately do that with Working Tax Credits so it is impossible to find out exactly how little you earn in order to qualify, until you apply and they tell you that your earnings are about £20 quid too high. (if you'd not done that extra overtime for a couple of days you would have got it...AAArghh!).

[swanprincess]

Sorry I couldnt answer your question, Millie3, just thought this would be the best thread to ask my question on!

[balletla]

I will be auditioning for 2014 entry but am slightly concerned about the family income thing. My parents are divorced, so my mum (who is on quite a low wage anyway) lives with my stepdad. My mum wouldnt want my stepdad to have to contribute towards hefty ballet school fees; would the DADA take this into account and only consider my mum's income, even though the total household income is different??

 

As with all government systems, the current MDS scheme is very unfair. Income is assessed on the income of the 'home' where the pupil resides, so for divorced parents, you could have a very high earning father but if the child lives with a low-earning mother, the father doesn't have to contribute and the MDS is assessed purely on the mother's income. Equally, if the mother has re-married or even lives with a new 'partner', it is their combined income which is assessed, so a person who is a step parent or cohabiting with the mother, becomes eligible to pay contributions for a child that isn't theirs.

 

Same with child benefit now - it is the income of the person who gets paid it or the person they live with whose earnings count towards a reduction if over £50 - nothing to do with whether the child is actually yours or not!

 

I assume DaDas will be assessed like the current MDS, but who knows!

[HAIRBELLES]

I am assuming the same Ribbons.........I have read somewhere although I can't remember what site it was that a table of contributions would be available once the schools and colleges have been instructed on the administration of the awards.

 

Just to add, maintenance for my elder daughter that goes via my bank account straight back out to pay her fees is taken into account for the youngest ones MDS .Therefore my ex husband is contributing to a child that is neither his or is living with her mother.

I dont mean to sound like I'm being flippant but there are lots of variables that will not be fair depending on everyones circumstances even some of the high earners probably haven't the disposable income required to pay the contributions and mortgage payments are not accounted for, I could go on forever.

 

I just know I am as always hugely grateful my daughter has an award and that without the dada,whatever the contribution, it will be impossible for my other daughter to continue.

 

By next year swanprincess the new measures will be well under way and you will have a good idea of what the contribution will be.

[Justamum]

DaDa's ? will they just cover the tuition fees?

Or will they cover any of the living allowance?

Some lucky children will live quite close to 6th form Dance schools and those who do not will have to pay up to £120 per week for lodgings, food and transport on top of the school fees. Ouch !

I think I may buy a house near to one of these schools and rent it out !

Jx

[spooky]

I went to the Laine audition support day a few weeks ago with youngest dd and they were saying that as yet the schools have not been told how the new system will work exactly or how much money each school will get. They did say that they expected the upper limit cut off point to be in the region of 50K although this was only a best guess. There will still be a maintainance grant element again on some unknown sliding scale but there will be no loans except career development loans which they do not recommend as these have to be repaid as soon as the course finishes regardless of employment status. They also mentioned that for every college you apply for a dada at you will have to supply detailed financial information. apparently they had asked for some sort of centralised administration but so far this has been refused. The bottom line seemed to be if your household income was likely to be over 50K you would have to pay the full fees AND all maintainance costs. Think we have decided not to bother auditioning this year and dd will go to local sixth form to do A levels and then try for places at 18 when she can also apply for degree courses (musical theatre).

[Belljul]

I can't believe that the cut off for paying full fees will be 50K. Fees for lower school at Elmhurst are in the region of £25K per year for lower school (with boarding) and I can't see the amount dropping hugely for upper school once you factor in rent or a place at Lyndhurst House etc. How can they expect half of your salary to go to a school?? Hope the facts come to light soon cos it's worrying me hugely!!

[balletla]

Maybe they mean that the cut off for fees will be £50k and the cut of for maintenance will be around the same. If it's £50k for everything then no-one will be able to afford it, and it would be more like 3/4 of your take-home salary after tax. However, governments do seem to class anyone earning over £50k as 'rich', even though on £50k, you still wouldn't be able to afford to buy an UK average house priced home (£162,000)

 

Most people find the current MDS contributions very challenging - remember that tax comes off the gross salary figure and contributions must be paid from net take home pay: Current contribution levels can be seen on Elmhurst's website here:

 

http://www.elmhurstd...wer-school.html

 

 

Also edited to say that I can't believe that this isn't sorted out in time for people auditioning for next year which has started already. People are having to let their children audition without knowing whether they will be able to afford it or not!

Edited December 3, 2012 by Ribbons

[HAIRBELLES]

Me too Belljul!!!!

 

It does seem a low cut off point when MDS is more like£150,000.[obviously includes boarding]

The Hammond's the current fees are £16,050 not including extras. Im not sure without looking but presume Elmhurst,Royal etc will be higher.

It will then cost a further £4-5,000 for accomadation.

 

It is a potential financial nightmare for some, whose children have trained for 5 years, not to be able to continue if parents cannot find the extra money required.

 

How on earth can we make decisions for our children if the schools and colleges concerned have no idea what is happening.

 

It is going to cost at least £1,000 with travel and overnight stays to audition to start off with .......what is the point if you cannot pay even with a Dada award!!!!!

[HAIRBELLES]

Sorry Ribbons I was posting at the same time and said virtually the same thing!

[Nana Lily]

Think we have decided not to bother auditioning this year and dd will go to local sixth form to do A levels and then try for places at 18 when she can also apply for degree courses (musical theatre).

 

Not that I am usually into conspiracy theories, but could be what the government is after? To delay vocational training to the age of 18, when some children may then decide to no follow a performance route? For quite a few of the MT courses now you have to be 18 anyway. However for dance students (especially ballet students) daily vocational training between 16 to 18 is surely essential?

[balletla]

The bottom line seemed to be if your household income was likely to be over 50K you would have to pay the full fees AND all maintainance costs.

 

Have just re-read Spooky's post and realised that she did say £50k cut off for both fees and maintenance combined. If this is the case then I agree with Nana that this is will force children into degree-based courses where they can get student loans, or force their parents to take out costly loans to cover the fees elsewhere. Like people say, Elmhurst is about £25k and RBS is about £31k for both fees and living costs combined. ENBS fees are £17k with an assumed additional £10k in London living costs. None of those figures are affordable for someone on £50k with a mortgage/family to support and I assume the sliding scale below that will be similarly proportionate.

 

Well if there is a collapse in the numbers able to attend, then the schools themselves should be concerned about their ability to be financially sustainable. Only the very rich ( and that's my definition of 'very rich', not the government's) will really be able to let their children attend these schools.

[Siconne50]

I agree it will be only the fortunate v.rich parents who will be able to send their child to vocational schools, and i am sure there are still many parents in the ballet world that can afford the fees!

[Pas de Quatre]

I think Nana Lily may have a point - in general education the trend has been to make everyone stay on at school until 18 and then study their subject as a degree or diploma. The sad truth is that there are very few classical jobs around, so many dancers will have to switch to commercial or contemporary fields anyway to make a living.

[KathyG]

Has anyone tried to contact the Department of Education and asked them? My machine won't let me (works one)

[2dancersmum]

Given that the school leaving age has been raised to 18 in England I think nana lily has a good point. Our children are always going to be exceptions to the norm when it comes to standard general education so I doubt that the training requirements for a dancer have been taken into consideration.

 

Re dates for DADA information - I posted the following on another thread a while ago. I do not know the original source as I came accross it in a discussion of DADAs.

 

 

"The Department for Education (DfE) has responsibility for student support for 16-18 year olds and responsibility for post-19 student support resides with the Department for Business Innovation and Skills (BIS).

 

DfE and BIS have confirmed that changes will be made to the scheme with effect from 2013/14 and are currently working with existing DaDA providers to develop detailed scheme arrangements.

Changes to the scheme will be based on the following key principles:

 

- all students will be income assessed to determine the level of support that will be provided for the costs of fees and maintenance;

- local administration arrangements (providers will receive and manage an allocation of funding for fees and maintenance support; providers will undertake student income assessments);

- income assessment bands and levels of support will be set nationally.

 

 

BIS will continue to support adults undertaking performing arts training. The Department is currently considering future funding arrangements and have confirmed that they wish the EFA to include provision for adults as part of this exercise.

 

Summary of the Approved Supplier Application timetable

A summary of the planned timetable for the Approved Supplier process for the Dance and Drama Awards 2013/14 is given in the table below.

 

Date Milestone

24 August 2012 Details of Approved Supplier Application published

12 October 2012 (12 noon) Closing date for submission of completed Approved Supplier Applications

14 December 2012 Providers notified of outcome of Approved Supplier Application (Providers will be notified earlier if possible)

 

The above dates are current at the time of publication and may change. If any significant change occurs the applicant may be given a comparable altered time to respond."

 

Edited to add DADA quote.

Edited December 3, 2012 by 2dancersmum

[balletla]

Thanks for re-posting that 2Dancersmum. So it looks like we will have to wait till mid-December just for confirmation of which schools will be 'approved' for DaDas. I have checked the DfE website and although it says the page was updated on 30 November, it gives even less information than you have posted:

 

http://www.education.gov.uk/childrenandyoungpeople/youngpeople/studentsupport/a00203099/dada-scheme

[Mumofballetmaddaughter]

Apologies for the stupid question (I've read some of the guidelines and have interpreted them 2 ways) Is it definitely the level of support for the whole tuition fee or just the student contribution and maintenance which will be determined by means testing?

[balletla]

Has anyone tried to contact the Department of Education and asked them? My machine won't let me (works one)

 

OK, I have just called the 'Learner Support' helpline number given on the DfE website (see link above) and the very nice helpline lady said that the schools themselves would know more about the changes to funding than she does and that schools should be contacted directly. I explained that there were a lot of concerned parents out here who were letting their children audition for schools without understanding what the funding arrangements are and that the schools don't seem to know either. She said that the exact funding levels haven't been set yet by the 'Education Funding Agency' (EFA) and that this would be likely to be confirmed "sometime after Christmas".

 

I then asked if she had a contact for anyone I could speak to at the EFA and she gave me their helpline number. I rang that number and got another very nice helpline lady who then referred me back to the first lady at 'Learner Support'.

 

You couldn't make it up, could you?

[Pavlala]

We all could just swamp the EFA with calls, to wake them up a bit...

[balletla]

Apologies for the stupid question (I've read some of the guidelines and have interpreted them 2 ways) Is it definitely the level of support for the whole tuition fee or just the student contribution and maintenance which will be determined by means testing?

 

It used to be that you paid a fixed fee contribution to the fees of £1,275 a year, regardless of income and then the maintenance grant was means-tested up to a maximum salary of £35,000. However, all of that is changing for Sep 2013 and both elements will be means tested which will undoubtedly result in a much higher contribution for most people, with the suggested cut off for any help at all with fees or maintenance combined being £50k.

[BankruptMum]

Given that the main purpose of any funding is to ensure that the most talented dancers are able to receive suitable training rather than it being students from the wealthy families, it appears the DfE are going to miss their main target group of students doesnt it - or perhaps they think that that wealth means talent?!

 

My daughter wont be auditioning until next year and hopefully things will be a little clearer by then - really do feel for everyone who is auditioning at the moment you have enough to think about without going into something blind - very unsettling for the students too.

[spooky]

Sorry for causing some confusion. The 50K cut off was only a guess by Laine and each element of the dada is assessed separately i.e. fees and maintainance are completely separate. I wasn't thinking about schools with boarding included in the fees. We are in the position where we didn't know if it was worth the expense of auditioning if we wouldn't be able to afford a place even with a dada. Talked about this with the staff at Laine who i must say were very open not trying to 'sell' their school at all and even suggesting other places which they felt offered the same standard and type of training. They agreeed that it made (financial) sense to take advantage of free a level education locally and said it made no difference to them if students were 16, 18 or even older when they started. In fact only 25-30% of their first years are 16 but this is for musical theatre not ballet.

 

Hope this post does not appear out of context I wrote it several hours ago following post#11 but forgot to hit the post button!

[BankruptMum]

Spooky great to hear so few MT students are 16 and can get other qualifications under their belt first but just wondering if I am missing the obvious, is there any more funding available at 18 than at 16 ? If not, it really makes little difference if you dont get enough financial support what age they are does it. Confused.com here!

 

Good to know Laine were very helpful.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Places like Bird & Mountview offer degree courses for 18 year olds which are funded in the same way as normal degrees. You still get the vocational training but with an additional academic element runnin conjunction with a linked university.

[2dancersmum]

Forgot to add millie3 a big good luck to your DD for her Hammond audition. Bit late now so I will just say that I hope your DD's audition today has gone well and that she lasted until the end of the day so you know she is at least under consideration. Fingers crossed for a happy result.

[BankruptMum]

Ah I see, that makes a little more sense, thank you :-)

[primrose]

50k may sound a fair amount of money, however you then hit the higher tax bracket, so infact 50k will look more like 25 to 30k take home tops. Anybody earning this amount will not be able to afford to pay for these schools even with funding. I wonder when this government will open its eyes and look at the real Britain. They havent got a clue.

[balletla]

Without getting into politics, sadly, I don't think it is just this government. It seems that if you are really poor, you get everything paid for and if you are really rich, you probably don't need it, but the people in the middle get squeezed to within an inch of their life, trying to make things happen for their children. If you believe that culture is the sign of a civilised and progressive society then these places should be fully funded on merit, regardless of income.

[Mumofballetmaddaughter]

 

It used to be that you paid a fixed fee contribution to the fees of £1,275 a year, regardless of income and then the maintenance grant was means-tested up to a maximum salary of £35,000. However, all of that is changing for Sep 2013 and both elements will be means tested which will undoubtedly result in a much higher contribution for most people, with the suggested cut off for any help at all with fees or maintenance combined being £50k.

 

Thanks for clarifying Ribbons.

[Millie3]

Forgot to add millie3 a big good luck to your DD for her Hammond audition. Bit late now so I will just say that I hope your DD's audition today has gone well and that she lasted until the end of the day so you know she is at least under consideration. Fingers crossed for a happy result.

 

Thanks 2dancersmum - DD had an enjoyable day and got through to the afternoon session. So now have to wait for the letter.

 

With regard to Dadas, Hammond didn't know anymore than we do, so again wait and see. Feel there may be a lot of waiting in the next few months!

 

Millie