pastel Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Thanks so much Legseleven! Yes, we will try the other schools. Some we've looked into but unfortunately, the fees are not affordable. Also, we've missed the application dates for most. I'm waiting to hear fro BTUK because their applications are still open. I figure, if we end up in UK without a place in a ballet course, I'll start knocking on doors and see if there are any waiting lists available for students who drop out for whatever reason. Thanks again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legseleven Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 If you don't ask, you don't get ;-) I'm sure that someone said that London Russian Ballet School will consider late applications, possibly on another(?questions about) upper schools thread? Hoping very much that Central will be your DD's destination - but there are other great possibilities she could consider if you are all moving to the UK in any event! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastel Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Yes, UK is full of amazing opportunities - we're looking on it as an adventure. Not thrilled to have to leave our farm, but we're trying to bow out gracefully rather than hang on kicking and screaming. Dh's job doesn't have a future here. Sadly they are culling large numbers around the country and closing offices. He's already had one office close and been commuting long distances for the past few years. Not sure yet if the job will be in London or one of the northern cities. We lived (actually, I shivered) in London for a year in the 90's, so we sort of know what to expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dancersmum Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Good luck to your DD for finals Pastel. If you do all end up over here but without a vocational school for DD I think it would be well worth contacting a lot of the schools early summer and just explain you are moving here from Australia and ask if any places are still available. You certainly don't get if you don't ask. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastel Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Thanks, yes, I think a round of calls would be a good idea, once we have definite plans and know where dh has to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Yes it's tough in Australia at the moment too. You probably know that my friend in Sydney's hubby has to travel to Canberra for work every week now and is only home at weekends. Once upon a time his skills were much needed there but times change and this is no longer the case. It's almost worse in Australia because of the huge distances between Cities. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dramascientist Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Congratulations to your DD Pastel, if by some small chance she doesn't make it to Central after finals there is also Ballet West who audition late too. DD was offered a place and it is lovely there and so safe and homely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzpaws Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Just received the long awaited email to say that dd has made the finals for Central - Do you think they have ANY idea how much cheering goes on when these emails/letters are opened? So pleased for you - wishing you the very best xx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 And just to chip in my thoughts - if you're coming over here for an extended period of time, you could consider enrolling her in some good local classes where you'll be living and applying for full-time training the following year. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double trouble Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Well done to your DD Pastel I don't know how many audition for Central but I bet it's a lot. Good luck for finals . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katymac Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 To answer your question about Millenium, Pastel, no, it's a "dance course" not a classical course. As far as I know they have very good ballet training which forms a core part of the overall course. Excellent school for Musical Theatre though. Spannyandpony. that's really good to hear - DD is trying to decide between here & Italia Conti (despite the fact that it's them who will make the decision wrt DaDA not her or us) & tying herself up in knots over it. Some people seem a bit down on Millennium (actually and Conti too) so it's hard to offer her advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afab Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Hi Katymac, what do you mean by "seem a bit down"? Disappointed by the level? By the course? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Spannyandpony. that's really good to hear - DD is trying to decide between here & Italia Conti (despite the fact that it's them who will make the decision wrt DaDA not her or us) & tying herself up in knots over it. Some people seem a bit down on Millennium (actually and Conti too) so it's hard to offer her advise. Really? I think personally I would check out graduate employment stats and then go with my gut feeling about where she'd be happiest - from Millenium's ads in Dancing Times they seem to have a good record of getting their grads jobs in MT. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katymac Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 They seem to think it's 'second tier' or even 'third' after the other colleges I worked on the basis that if the Government are prepared to fund through a DaDA & Trinity are prepared to accredit then it's a 'good' college - but I keep being told they aren't as good. It's hard to judge as I'm not any sort of MT/Dance knowledgeable parent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afab Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Thank you! I know exactly what you mean... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dancersmum Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I'm with Spanner and go on gut feeling for where your DD would be happiest and thrive (assuming you get a choice). I tend to disregard a lot of these opinions on '2nd tier' or '3rd tier' as I have found some people can be dismissive of places where their child has been unsuccessful, where a friends child has been unsuccessful or where they had not thought to apply or even sometimes when their own child is too young to be applying yet and they dismiss it because they have not heard of it. If it is an accredited college then you know the training is good and to a huge extent it is up to the individual to make the most of wherever they train. I'd also add that I have never yet heard of a college where there have not been some negatives raised. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Do the people who are 'a bit down' on these schools have any real (and recent) knowledge, expertise or experience in the field of MT? Whilst accreditation is obviously a good thing, as spanner says, graduate employment rates are probably the best indicator of whether or not it is worthwhile for your dd to invest time and money in any particular course. This raises another question. Would your dd be happy to attend a course for the experience even though it did not lead to a job in MT at the end of it? Many, many graduates from 'normal' universities are in this situation today in that their degrees do not automatically lead to graduate level jobs on graduation, and I fear that many will never secure a graduate level job because they aren't enough of them around. When I and my two siblings graduated from a Russell Group university, a 'new' university and a polytechnic respectively in the mid to late 1980s we all walked into graduate level jobs and would never have expected to be working in a bar or as a shop assistant after investing three or four years of our lives in a degree. We did all study vocational degrees though and there were some factors (high reputation of the university, past employment in the same field (as an apprentice), year out in industry as part of the degree) which made us all more employable. Having said that, even vocational degrees are no guarantee of a graduate level job today. Many law graduates, for example, will never be able to qualify as solicitors or barristers because they cannot secure training contracts or pupillages and many end up working as paralegals or clerks which used to be jobs taken by school leavers. I'm rambling now, but I just wanted to make the point that the employment prospects of graduates of 'normal' universities are not much different to those of vocational school/college graduates. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Back to the fact that Pastel's daughter is being considered at finals for Central - and please don't take this personally Pastel, it just raised the question in my mind and I'm interested about what others think - it seems really odd to me that someone can be selected to attend a school from a DVD audition. I know some of the other schools ask international (DVD) applicants to actually attend the final audition, but are there other schools who, like Central, will make offers without actually seeing the student dance in the flesh? What about physio? Comparing side by side with other potential students? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 That's a really interesting question, Julie. As well as the points you've raised, the other things that crossed my mind are that someone is less likely to suffer audition nerves when filming a dvd, especially in a "home" - i.e. familiar studio, plus there is the opportunity to "do over" any step or dance that you might have done less than perfectly. Obviously students auditioning "live" and in person could suffer from nerves or mess up an exercise and be disadvantaged somewhat. How does the school know that the student in the dvd is actually the one will turn up at the start of term? Even when you take a vocational exam at RAD HQ you have to take photo ID to prove you are who you say you are. And finally - but none the less important - if a student has never physically stepped foot inside a school and got the feel of the place, met the staff etc, how do they know they want to go to school there? Gut feeling is very important to me and I would want to have at least been to an open day and preferably taken class at a place where I may potentially study for several years. I'd reiterate that these questions aren't aimed specifically at you or your dd, Pastel! It's merely that I always supposed that overseas students would have to attend a final audition having passed prelims via dvd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankruptMum Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) To Katymac (sorry I replied on the wrong page and didnt realise the conversation had taken a new direction!) You can only make a decision between the schools you have a choose of, regardless of how others 'rank' them. Take into account how accessible they are, qualifications which can be gained, additional experiences offered, employment history - its no different than choosing an academic school. Remove the emotion, look at the facts, compare it to your requirements. I'm sure your DD will do well at either school. Edited February 28, 2014 by BankruptMum 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Back to Pastels situation! Maybe they should invite some students who really do live a long way away a chance to attend classes for a week at their chosen school.....given that is that they've got to the finals!! This gives the school a chance to have a good look at the pupil and is more worthwhile than travelling from a huge distance just for one day. Then physio checks could be done then.......though I still maintain these could be carried out in country of origin if accompanied with some guidelines from the school/college applied to. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomuchtallent Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) If the DVD is filmed good enough, and I think the content they ask for is more difficult with all the stretching, feet,turnout ect I don't see that it's difficult for them to decide.They know what they are looking for just like the other schools. Good point about going to look at the school first before excepting a place.A bit like my dd, we have not been to Tring but my dd will be going. Edited February 28, 2014 by tomuchtallent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afab Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) For me, the main problem I see in the Central finals situation (and again Pastel, we use your name but it's a general discussion) is that Pastel's DD cannot show in person what she is, dance wise and personality wise... It seems a shame that a potential student could have less chances than others because he/she won't be there... Of course, one can suffer from nerves on an audition and not be one's best but one can also thrive on adrenaline and the wish to show what one can do and come across as a lovely dancer in flesh when there is the risk of not showing oneself on a video... Edited February 28, 2014 by afab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankruptMum Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Its hard though isnt it - we all comment on how a dancer can have an 'off' bad day, or equally 'good day' when it comes to auditions - being able to view a DVD audition befoe submitting it allows the candidate to make sure they are having a 'good day'. How many re-take photographs before sending off applications, its difficult to get perfect first time, live in a audition room you have to. I do agree though a DVD doesnt allow for the warmth and performance to come across as well as it does in person (its also dependant on persons skills filming!!). I guess these schools have done enough audiitons to know what they are looking for be it in person or dvd. Afterall they are still looking for the right framework rather than complete ability - maybe it isnt as complicated as we all think it is! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dancersmum Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Looking at graduate employment rates for MT is I think a less reliable indicator perhaps than for ballet schools. Classical ballet graduates are looking for contracts with companies on the whole whereas MT tends to be show by show and even though websites list their success stories they are often not by individual year groups. Several of DDs older friends have graduated in the past few years for MT and regardless of college all found work within a few months of graduating. However, contracts varied between 3 months summer show to 15 months on a MT show. The one with the longest initial contract then spent almost 2 years waitressing and doing panto before her next break (which is long term contract), whilst the friend who had the shortest contract has been in constant work. Re overseas students attending finals or not. I'm sure the schools know what they are looking for as they have enough experience and I think DVD auditions are the only realistic way of seeing students from countries as far away as Australia, America, New Zealand etc. I get that people can have good or bad days at auditions but overall I think auditioning in person does give you the advantage of personality showing through and the audition panel can see how well you pick things up and react to instruction. A wellfilmed DVD is just a flat account of what they have asked to see. Spanner raises a point about ID - I think alongside the DVD are testimonials from teachers etc and certainly when an overseas student arrives at a school, they have to provide all sorts of proof of identity, visas etc before they can register. In an ideal world you would get to visit schools and audition in person but it is not always practical or affordable and certainly if I had been looking abroad for schools for my DD, I would have wanted her to have an open choice of where she could apply, rather than it being dependent on airfares for a particular dates. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyG Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 But then when it comes to getting a contract for work even if you send a DVD you still have to attend the audition in person, it then becomes up to you if you pay the airfare on the of chance you may get a job out of it! I know it's a few years ago now but I thought Central had an Overseas audition day the day before the finals so overseas students only had to make the one trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afab Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 They still do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nana Lily Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Do the people who are 'a bit down' on these schools have any real (and recent) knowledge, expertise or experience in the field of MT? Whilst accreditation is obviously a good thing, as spanner says, graduate employment rates are probably the best indicator of whether or not it is worthwhile for your dd to invest time and money in any particular course. This raises another question. Would your dd be happy to attend a course for the experience even though it did not lead to a job in MT at the end of it? Many, many graduates from 'normal' universities are in this situation today in that their degrees do not automatically lead to graduate level jobs on graduation, and I fear that many will never secure a graduate level job because they aren't enough of them around. When I and my two siblings graduated from a Russell Group university, a 'new' university and a polytechnic respectively in the mid to late 1980s we all walked into graduate level jobs and would never have expected to be working in a bar or as a shop assistant after investing three or four years of our lives in a degree. We did all study vocational degrees though and there were some factors (high reputation of the university, past employment in the same field (as an apprentice), year out in industry as part of the degree) which made us all more employable. Having said that, even vocational degrees are no guarantee of a graduate level job today. Many law graduates, for example, will never be able to qualify as solicitors or barristers because they cannot secure training contracts or pupillages and many end up working as paralegals or clerks which used to be jobs taken by school leavers. I'm rambling now, but I just wanted to make the point that the employment prospects of graduates of 'normal' universities are not much different to those of vocational school/college graduates. I couldn't agree more Aileen, maybe we all expecting too much from our vocational children in terms of employment and you have certainly made me think about this in a different way. When we embarked on this journey with our children DH and I wanted our DD's to have a wonderful experience, opportunity, get excellent training, a good education and be happy. Employment would be the icing on the cake. In someways I think we were more realistic at the beginning of our journey than further along the route, but that's with hindsight. One house patent did say, you can never take away the whole experience you are giving your children...wise words I think and helps to develop them into the adults they will be (hopefully with jobs!) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastel Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Re - overseas places without turning up to the finals. I think it is an interesting issue and affects both the school and the student. It is a fairly big risk sending a child to the other side of the world to a school one has never seen. One assumes each school has a certain number of places allocated to overseas students and they decide from live auditions and dvd auditions which O/S students will fill those places. Some schools insist on students turning up in person for the finals, e.g. Elmhurst (so we didn't apply). I would much prefer my dd to be able to attend in person but it is simply unaffordable. It could work if the schools all had auditions over say a 2 week period so you could attend more than one. But, it is a huge outlay (about $5,000 - $6,000) for a one day audition. As we all know, there are no guarantees the student will be accepted, in fact the chances are pretty slim. If you can afford such things, students from far away countries will most likely attend Prix where they can be seen by several schools at one time, or, they go on specially organised 'audition tours' with their ballet schools. Again, both these options are out of our price range. The audition tours cost $15,000 - $20,000. I honestly don't know how families afford that. Once you gain a place in a school, remember that there are no funding discounts for overseas students. We have applied for the ENBS summer school and will apply for Central and a couple of others if dd is not accepted this year. That way, the schools can see her for a week or two, and she will apply for the full time courses again next year. I really don't think the ID thing is an issue, since you have to supply so much paperwork. Some schools require the student have a physio assessment in their own country - not sure yet what Central's policy is on this. Generally, I think the schools know what they are looking for and make their decision about whether you are 'in', 'out' or 'shortlisted' within about a minute. I understand the comments are not aimed at me - just hoping to give some insight into the realities of applying from a long distance. It is definitely NOT an ideal world and probably there are many unfair aspects to auditions, live or dvd. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwimum6 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 My son (14) has applied for ENBS summer school so if they are lucky we might meet, Pastel 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastel Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Wow! You have 2 dc wanting to do full time dance!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katymac Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 DD did a DVD audition for her associate school & tbh I don't think it gave her any significant advantages or disadvantages. There were significant pros & cons for it and we were very nervous about it; I can't even imagine how Pastel & her family are feeling about some thing so much more major 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwimum6 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 4 pastel 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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