Royal Ballet - Swan Lake 2024

[cjp]

So lovely to see these pictures of Sarah Lamb and sad to think how long it might be before we see it again - so beautiful.  I presume when the next classic does (hopefully!) come back into the repertoire it will be Sleeping Beauty, so even longer until Swan Lake.

 

On the subject of applause during acts, I thought it was always done that way (ie pauses for applause after certain set pieces in the big classical ballets)?  I find it a bit irritating as it does interrupt the flow of the performance, but on the other hand there's usually been some spectucular dancing, so I can see the argument for acknowledging that in the moment - I think it helps if the dancers try to remain somewhat in character for it, as I think they usually do.  But I thought it had been standard practice across ballet companies basically forever, especially in Swan Lake.

 

[RobR]

55 minutes ago, cjp said:

 

On the subject of applause during acts, I thought it was always done that way (ie pauses for applause after certain set pieces in the big classical ballets)?  I find it a bit irritating as it does interrupt the flow of the performance, but on the other hand there's usually been some spectucular dancing, so I can see the argument for acknowledging that in the moment - I think it helps if the dancers try to remain somewhat in character for it, as I think they usually do.  But I thought it had been standard practice across ballet companies basically forever, especially in Swan Lake.

 

Many on BCF will have seen the recent Swan Lake Insight, either live or on YouTube, in which Samira Saidi coached both Benno and Big Swans (separately) and she enjoined her audience to applaud what she described as difficult pieces that deserved applause during the performances.

 

Edited April 30 by RobR

[Geoff]

Dancers I have spoken to are grateful for applause as it increases the time they have to recover. 

[art_enthusiast]

25 minutes ago, Geoff said:

Dancers I have spoken to are grateful for applause as it increases the time they have to recover. 

Good to know, that’s what I thought

[DVDfan]

From some of the clips I've seen of Russian companies, some of them do (did?) have the bad habit of stopping frequently to milk applause out of character.

But, dancers need to breathe - it's not an option, the muscles require oxygen to release energy from glucose during activity and the body must rid itself of carbon dioxide produced during that activity. The only question in my mind is how they should take the pauses they need.

I think this may be difficult with some music and some classical choreography. What I mean is, in some the music allows for the corps or a soloist to do a variation to cover the principals' breathing time, in others it doesn't. Stopping for applause may be the only workable answer.

A dancer who is still trying to catch their breath, or whose muscles are still awash with lactic acid, isn't going to give the kind of stellar performance we expect, and maybe at increased risk of injury.

[Jan McNulty]

As a long-time follower of Northern Ballet we were "educated" by the late Christopher Gable not to applaud during story ballets as it interrupted the flow.  Most NB audiences still stick to that.

 

I remember a matinee performance of BRB performing SDB's Gallantries  where there was prolonged applause for the glorious central duet.  I got the impression that the dancers were not sure what to do.  At the evening performance it was noticeable that the orchestra and dancers just carried on through the applause...

 

I think there are applause points built into Act 3 of a conventional Swan Lake but I do not applaud elsewhere during the ballet as I find it tends to ruin the flow.  There are lots more applause points built into both Sleeping Beauty, Don Q and (of course) The Nutcracker.

[emmarose]

1 hour ago, Geoff said:

Dancers I have spoken to are grateful for applause as it increases the time they have to recover. 

 

Exactly. And I doubt there will be one dancer on the stage who ever comes away thinking they wish the audience had clapped LESS, that they wish the audience wasn't enjoying their performance quite so much.

 

Imagine the hard work that goes into it all, the days on end of training and rehearsal, to then really nail a difficult solo and only get a smattering of applause.

 

I don't know. They work so hard and dedicate everything to the art, maybe we as an audience can show when we really appreciate something as well. 

[Jan McNulty]

1 hour ago, emmarose said:

 

Exactly. And I doubt there will be one dancer on the stage who ever comes away thinking they wish the audience had clapped LESS, that they wish the audience wasn't enjoying their performance quite so much.

 

Imagine the hard work that goes into it all, the days on end of training and rehearsal, to then really nail a difficult solo and only get a smattering of applause.

 

I don't know. They work so hard and dedicate everything to the art, maybe we as an audience can show when we really appreciate something as well. 

 

 

Do you include "story ballets" in that?  Or Albrecht's solo before he collapses in Giselle? Or the Act 2 adagio in Swan Lake?

 

Certainly for the latter 2 applause at those points entirely ruins the flow and emotion of the moment for me.

[San Perregrino]

Isn’t applause & acclaim at the end of a performance enough?
Perhaps one’s viewpoint depends on why one has gone to see the production in the first place, whether it is for the whole or just for the highlights.

If I am particularly moved by a difficult slow section in say act 2 of Swan Lake  is ok for me to express my appreciation by clapping and catcalling loudly at that point or would my reaction be judged as inappropriate by the very same people who clap and catcall at the end of 32 fouettés?

 

Edited April 30 by San Perregrino

[emmarose]

37 minutes ago, San Perregrino said:

Isn’t applause & acclaim at the end of a performance enough?
Perhaps one’s viewpoint depends on why one has gone to see the production in the first place, whether it is for the whole or just for the highlights.

If I am particularly moved by a difficult slow section in say act 2 of Swan Lake  is ok for me to express my appreciation by clapping and catcalling loudly at that point or would my reaction be judged as inappropriate by the very same people who clap and catcall at the end of 32 fouettés?

 

 

Oh dear. Well, personally I find Act II the most beautiful and moving as well and probably smaller moments than the regular favourites. Obviously nobody is screaming during those, I usually release a small and content sigh...

 

But AFTER a solo, more than a smattering of applause is allowed and justified.

 

I honestly don't know if we love the dancers and art form why anyone would be talking the performers OUT of applause, but here we are.

[zxDaveM]

Have to say, I really enjoyed Sarah Lamb's dancing last night, particulalrly her Odette. Such effortless grace. When she first joined the company it wasn't long after I first started going to ROH, and she always looked like how I'd imagined a ballerina to be.

[Jake]

7 minutes ago, zxDaveM said:

Have to say, I really enjoyed Sarah Lamb's dancing last night, particulalrly her Odette. Such effortless grace. When she first joined the company it wasn't long after I first started going to ROH, and she always looked like how I'd imagined a ballerina to be.

Didn’t get to see her in Swan Lake this time but that’s exactly what my husband and I used to say about Sarah Lamb - she’s just how one would envisage a ballerina to be! Always so exquisite. 

[bridiem]

11 minutes ago, zxDaveM said:

Have to say, I really enjoyed Sarah Lamb's dancing last night, particulalrly her Odette. Such effortless grace. When she first joined the company it wasn't long after I first started going to ROH, and she always looked like how I'd imagined a ballerina to be.

 

And I love the way she does some of her curtain calls en pointe! So beautiful.

[San Perregrino]

8 minutes ago, emmarose said:

 

Oh dear. Well, personally I find Act II the most beautiful and moving as well and probably smaller moments than the regular favourites. Obviously nobody is screaming during those, I usually release a small and content sigh...

 

But AFTER a solo, more than a smattering of applause is allowed and justified.

 

I honestly don't know if we love the dancers and art form why anyone would be talking the performers OUT of applause, but here we are.

I don’t think anyone is talking the performers OUT of applause but rather discussing when, during a narrative tale, it is appropriate to break the silence.
A ballet isn’t a play, an orchestral concert, a rock concert nor a sporting event.

Ballet has its conventions which seem strange when one first encounters them but which I have come to accept particularly if one understands that it is a way of catching one’s breath before continuing. 

[emmarose]

14 minutes ago, San Perregrino said:

I don’t think anyone is talking the performers OUT of applause but rather discussing when, during a narrative tale, it is appropriate to break the silence.
A ballet isn’t a play, an orchestral concert, a rock concert nor a sporting event.

Ballet has its conventions which seem strange when one first encounters them but which I have come to accept particularly if one understands that it is a way of catching one’s breath before continuing. 

 

But applause is actually called for after certain solos and forgive me, but being thankful there was only a 'smattering of applause' is basically talking the performers out of applause.

 

There are certain conventions, however our audiences are the most mute by a mile, if you watch most other countries they will have enthusiastic applause when applause is called for instead of polite and muted clapping.

[San Perregrino]

1 hour ago, emmarose said:

when applause is called for

And that is a very subjective topic which we are discussing. There is no right or wrong per se.

[emmarose]

7 minutes ago, San Perregrino said:

And that is a very subjective topic which we are discussing. There is no right or wrong per se.

 

But when it is allowed and not in the middle of a piece of music but in a clear break and after a solo, then enthusiastic applause can take place instead of a mere smattering after a difficult solo.

[RobR]

1 hour ago, San Perregrino said:

I don’t think anyone is talking the performers OUT of applause but rather discussing when, during a narrative tale, it is appropriate to break the silence.
A ballet isn’t a play, an orchestral concert, a rock concert nor a sporting event.

Ballet has its conventions which seem strange when one first encounters them but which I have come to accept particularly if one understands that it is a way of catching one’s breath before continuing. 

Two points.

 

First, although I have never been to a performance in Russia, DVDs I’ve seen suggest that a 'convention' in Russia is that the principals are enthusiastically applauded when they first appear on stage and before they dance. (If I’ve got that wrong I’ll be happy to be corrected). 

 

At the ROH, and I believe it’s the same at other UK companies, with a few exceptions, principals are not generally applauded when they arrive on stage. If I’m right, different countries have different‘conventions'.

 

Second, I think it’s not ideal to align a narrative ballet with a narrative theatre drama - the art forms are entirely different.
 

 

[San Perregrino]

10 minutes ago, emmarose said:

 

But when it is allowed and not in the middle of a piece of music but in a clear break and after a solo, then enthusiastic applause can take place instead of a mere smattering after a difficult solo.

As I said in my previous comment, there is no right or wrong per se, there are conventions. Ultimately, the determination of the amount of applause given and when it is given, is in the hands of the giver (if you’ll excuse the pun) be it enthusiastic or smattered. 

 

[San Perregrino]

1 minute ago, RobR said:

Second, I think it’s not ideal to align a narrative ballet with a narrative theatre drama - the art forms are entirely different.
 

That’s what I said 

[Scheherezade]

I think that our opinions on applause depend, to some extent, upon when we began attending ballet performances on a regular basis.

In the 60s and early 70s, and because it was seen as breaking the flow, something that was regarded as disrespectful to the dancers as much as detrimental to audience enjoyment, it was considered bad form for UK audiences to applaud before the end, at which point they were free to go wild and frequently did, with some curtain calls going on for half an hour or more. Was the change down to glasnost and greater exposure to Russian practices?

 

Whatever the reason, I recall frequently raised eyebrows, accompanied by the odd, whispered “tourists” at what was generally considered untimely applause back then.

[San Perregrino]

10 hours ago, Geoff said:

Dancers I have spoken to are grateful for applause as it increases the time they have to recover. 

Bow 5 in this clip is a visual representation of this rationale:

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C50eKh8vgm1/?igsh=MW90OTk5N2FseXE3dA==

Edited April 30 by San Perregrino

[Balletfanp]

I like his representation of ballet runs too 😁

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5mZjclyN2D/?igsh=MW4zMWU2bDB0aGxxOQ==
 

[Missfrankiecat]

7 hours ago, emmarose said:

 

Oh dear. Well, personally I find Act II the most beautiful and moving as well and probably smaller moments than the regular favourites. Obviously nobody is screaming during those, I usually release a small and content sigh...

 

But AFTER a solo, more than a smattering of applause is allowed and justified.

 

I honestly don't know if we love the dancers and art form why anyone would be talking the performers OUT of applause, but here we are.

I would add to that, I recall both Nunez and Muntagirov (and Hirano) received short bursts of applause for their entries on opening DQ last Autumn - I thought it was really a warm welcome back to their home stage.  I was never keen on the Broadway habit of applauding the star at their first entry but somehow I have changed my mind, certainly for RB stars after we haven't seen them for a few months.

Edited April 30 by Missfrankiecat

[Mary]

It does depend on the occasion and, apart from displays of incredible brilliance, first night of the season is a good example, or perhaps a dancer back from injury. Sometimes it is just a spontaneous burst of warm feeling from audience to performer/s and that's a nice thing to be part of. We don't have that much opportunity to show our appreciation and affection.

 

What irritates me is people applauding mechanically whenever the music pauses, without paying attention to what's actually going on....especially in Swan Lake.

[Dawnstar]

5 hours ago, RobR said:

At the ROH, and I believe it’s the same at other UK companies, with a few exceptions, principals are not generally applauded when they arrive on stage.

 

That reminds me of something that slightly irks me with the RB's Swan Lake: Odette getting entrance applause in Act II when she's already appeared in the Prologue. I can't say I'm that keen on entrance applause anyway, unless it's a special occasion such as a retirement, but applause for what is actually a dancer's second appearance on stage baffles me.

[RobR]

10 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

That reminds me of something that slightly irks me with the RB's Swan Lake: Odette getting entrance applause in Act II when she's already appeared in the Prologue.

Please don’t feel irked. Odette’s appearance in the Prologue is not really an appearance; think of it as more of an ‘amuse bouche’  😀

[Suffolkgal]

I’d like to say here and now the way the audience in Russia applauds every single thing drives me up the pole. And the curtain calls after each act don’t arf break the mood! But I do quite like the sense of occasion that is engendered at what used to be known as the ROH by applauding the leads …

[Lizbie1]

My favourite applause is when people are moved to applaud the sets when the curtain goes up, as it's so exceptional and because people (me included!) couldn't help themselves. I've only witnessed it with the current RB Swan Lake Act 3 and the RB's Raymonda Act 3 - and both are absolutely worth it.

[James]

2 hours ago, Suffolkgal said:

I’d like to say here and now the way the audience in Russia applauds every single thing drives me up the pole. And the curtain calls after each act don’t arf break the mood! But I do quite like the sense of occasion that is engendered at what used to be known as the ROH by applauding the leads …

When I saw the then Kirov (now The Mariinsky) in The Sleeping Beauty I was astounded that, at the end of Act 1, Aurora appeared through the curtains and took a bow with the four Rose Adagio princes. It literally broke the spell. 

[Geoff Whitman]

On 05/03/2024 at 09:42, San Perregrino said:

Very true. Between now and August there are at least 5 different productions in England alone:

Royal Ballet

ENB My First Ballet: Swan Lake

ENB Swan Lake in the Round

The Acrobatic Swan Lake

State Ballet of Georgia Swan Lake. 

i also think there are other companies touring the UK.

 

You can add Matthew Bourne’s Swan Lake to that list at the end of this year too!

[Odyssey]

12 hours ago, Lizbie1 said:

My favourite applause is when people are moved to applaud the sets when the curtain goes up, as it's so exceptional and because people (me included!) couldn't help themselves. I've only witnessed it with the current RB Swan Lake Act 3 and the RB's Raymonda Act 3 - and both are absolutely worth it.

It’s a rare performance of BRB’s production of the Nutcracker that doesn’t get spontaneous applause for the climax of its wonderful transformation scene and Clara’s journey to the Kingdom of the Sweets via a flying goose. 

[art_enthusiast]

15 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

 

That reminds me of something that slightly irks me with the RB's Swan Lake: Odette getting entrance applause in Act II when she's already appeared in the Prologue.

 

I see that Act 2 entrance as her first, the Prologue as more of a sort of vision sequence/this is what happened earlier type of thing. I love the Act 2 grand jeté onto the stage, I find it very dramatic and moving and will always clap regardless.