Audience Behaviour - Thread 2

[Sim]

This is why I don't go to these galas anymore.  For some reason they seem to attract people who don't really care about the artform;  they go to be seen and get in the papers or on TikTok, or just to be in the audience with other 'slebs' (I must admit that I haven't heard of one person mentioned in the link above, but I guess I'm no yardstick for modern culture!). If I want to listen to music/watch ballet whilst I am surrounded by the glow of mobile phones I can simply go upstairs on a London bus, put on YouTube and join everybody else who is doing the same thing.  And it's free!

[San Perregrino]

49 minutes ago, alison said:

the odd worried parent wondering how the babysitter is coping

my friend still has to have her phone turned on 24/7  "in case my daughter needs me".

 

her daughter is now 35 and has lived independently and now with her partner in another country for the past 10 years!!

[Sim]

7 minutes ago, Naughty Peregrine said:

my friend still has to have her phone turned on 24/7  "in case my daughter needs me".

 

her daughter is now 35 and has lived independently and now with her partner in another country for the past 10 years!!

🤦🏻‍♀️🙄

[Tango Dancer]

27 minutes ago, Sim said:

This is why I don't go to these galas anymore.  For some reason they seem to attract people who don't really care about the artform;  they go to be seen and get in the papers or on TikTok, or just to be in the audience with other 'slebs' (I must admit that I haven't heard of one person mentioned in the link above, but I guess I'm no yardstick for modern culture!). If I want to listen to music/watch ballet whilst I am surrounded by the glow of mobile phones I can simply go upstairs on a London bus, put on YouTube and join everybody else who is doing the same thing.  And it's free!

 

Yeah I didn't recognise any of the "famous" people the Daily Mail identified as being at the gala either but then I don't watch much television.  The last person I consider famous that I met at a ballet was Mthuthuzeli November and I was very excited about that because I think he's a brilliant choreographic genius.  He was not being photographed, acting like a celebrity or doing anything other than standing there quietly reading the programme and probably wondering why he was being gushed at by a strange middle aged woman! 

[zxDaveM]

1 hour ago, Sim said:

 If I want to listen to music/watch ballet whilst I am surrounded by the glow of mobile phones I can simply go upstairs on a London bus, put on YouTube and join everybody else who is doing the same thing.  And it's free!

 

but nowadays everyone seems to have abandoned headphones, so the cacophony of different streams/videos/tunes/TV/movies would be maddening!

[postie]

I've been to a couple of events where you agree, at the time of purchase, to have your phone put in a secure bag and kept by staff. That was in situations where the venue didn't want any production images to leak out. These were both large, busy events. It worked seamlessly, at least with me.

 

Another approach I like is the 'quiet carriage' on trains, which is really just a way of excluding phone usage as best I can tell.

 

I wonder if we will get to that point in theatres; give audiences the option of attending a phone-free performance ..

 

I'd sign up straight away.

[alison]

Oh yes, the quiet carriage which people just ignore anyway (or did on my recent trip to Birmingham on Chiltern).  Some people got on at Solihull or somewhere and just yakked all the way to Moor Street.  Fortunately I'd given up trying to work by then anyway.

[LinMM]

Quiet carriages don’t work when the train is really busy unfortunately. 

[alison]

This was a mid-morning train, so wasn't desperately busy.  They'd just got in to the nearest carriage and not paid any attention to the signs.

[Fonty]

18 hours ago, Linnzi5 said:

How frustrating. I had an issue with two teenage boys in front of me on Thursday night - one playing on his mobile phone, arm-wrestling his brother, talking to his dad who was two seats away . . . it was very distracting, though a lady next to the lad asked him to put his phone away, well, told him to - I was pleased she did!  I did speak to a member of staff in between acts 2 and 3 and she was amazing - kept coming over to speak to the people and when they didn't arrive, kept checking and then spoke to me. I was very impressed and delighted when the annoying people didn't return for the last two acts. I had a great view, but the boys (about 15 and 17 I'd guess, so should have known better, but clearly didn't want to be there) were very irritating and kept distracting me. So, I feel your pain with audience members getting in the way of the view! 

 

This makes me so angry.  We are not talking about toddlers here, but boys who are well old enough to know what is appropriate behaviour for a theatre.  What was the father doing?  Why on earth wasn't he making sure they behaved, and telling them to keep quiet when they were speaking to him? 

 

I have seen many children at the ROH over the years, nearly all much younger than these two, and I have always been impressed at how well behaved they have been.  If I had been there, I think I might have given this particular father an earful when the interval came along.  

[art_enthusiast]

23 minutes ago, Fonty said:

What was the father doing?  Why on earth wasn't he making sure they behaved, and telling them to keep quiet when they were speaking to him? 

 

Exactly. I'm super confused because who on earth thinks it's a good idea to pay full price for kids who don't want to be there? I don't care how rich you are, it's absolutely bizarre and also selfish because it disrupts the performance for other people. Maybe the rule should be - no under 18s allowed instead of just no under 5s (I'm joking as I know not everyone is like that but still!)

 

I had a similar experience in one of the Sleeping Beauty performance last year, where I think it was a boy of 10 who was whining and saying they wanted to leave. Thankfully they shut up through most of the performance, but it still really irritated me because it's such a waste of a seat.

[Sim]

I will just say that at yesterday's matinee there were quite a few children around, and they all behaved impeccably.  A little girl sitting in front of me kept turning to her parents and cracking a huge smile and a little gasp each time the swans appeared.  That little gesture made me so happy.  That's what it's all about.  

[San Perregrino]

29 minutes ago, Sim said:

I will just say that at yesterday's matinee there were quite a few children around, and they all behaved impeccably.  A little girl sitting in front of me kept turning to her parents and cracking a huge smile and a little gasp each time the swans appeared.  That little gesture made me so happy.  That's what it's all about.  

A more favourable reaction than that of the boy sitting below my standing place who was yawning audibly during the black swan pdd. 
We have the advantage of knowing that what is happening is special to the plot, first-timers don’t necessarily know.

Almost 3 hours to get to the climax is a long wait for children of all ages especially if they are disengaged and have no idea what is going to happen nor when (or if this is ever ever going to end!!).  

[Fonty]

3 minutes ago, San Perregrino said:

 

Almost 3 hours to get to the climax is a long wait for children of all ages especially if they are disengaged and have no idea what is going to happen nor when (or if this is ever ever going to end!!).  

 

Well, my first ballet was Swan Lake, which I saw at the age of about 6.  This was the full length, full scale production  by the RB touring compan.  I sat there absolutely transfixed, and developed a life long love of ballet. To be fair,  I had just started doing ballet classes, and my parents thought I might enjoy it.   But why take any child to a full length production of a classical ballet if they have shown no interest in the first place?  It is not as if the tickets are exactly cheap, after all.  

[art_enthusiast]

4 minutes ago, San Perregrino said:

Almost 3 hours to get to the climax is a long wait for children of all ages especially if they are disengaged and have no idea what is going to happen nor when (or if this is ever ever going to end!!).  

 

Yep. It would make sense to test them out in less prestigious and expensive theatres first before bringing them to the ROH. When I was under 10 I was only taken to Richmond Theatre (because my mum worked there as an usher and got some ticket discounts).

 

I remember seeing the Nutcracker there as a child, and also some heavier stuff like Agatha Christie - and the opera Aida, which I remember being unable to focus on as I had such a bad eczema flare up at the time! I was in a lot of pain but I made no noise except in the interval. (Luckily I no longer have eczema as an adult.) It's a good idea to do some preparation beforehand to limit disruption for others.

[LinMM]

Richmond Theatre was one of the first regular theatres I attended as a child though didn’t live in London

An Aunt used to take me to the then yearly Pantomime and I always loved the “fairies” bit where there would be some ballet type dancing scenes! 

[San Perregrino]

16 minutes ago, Fonty said:

 

Well, my first ballet was Swan Lake, which I saw at the age of about 6.  This was the full length, full scale production  by the RB touring compan.  I sat there absolutely transfixed, and developed a life long love of ballet. To be fair,  I had just started doing ballet classes, and my parents thought I might enjoy it.   But why take any child to a full length production of a classical ballet if they have shown no interest in the first place?  It is not as if the tickets are exactly cheap, after all.  

 

a cornucopia of reasons spring to mind inter alia:

 

the parent thought he/she knew better than the child what he/she would like and was ready for in terms of age appropriate content and/or length

the parent wanted to boast to other parents that "fill in name here" had been to the ROH to watch Swan Lake during the Easter holidays

the parent wanted to give the child the experience of going to the ballet and wasn't sure what the reaction would be

the child thought he/she would like it but didn't 

the child was liking bits of it,  it but it was going on too long for them to stay engaged until the end (a common occurrence at any Nutcracker)

the child, too young to be left home alone,  was there under duress as part of a birthday party for a sibling whose treat this was

a seat at the ROH was cheaper or more convenient than sourcing/paying a babysitter

circumstances e.g. out of town visitors meant that leaving the child with a babysitter wasn't an option

 

etc etc etc

 

I'm optimistic that some of what he saw and experienced on stage will have lodged in the boy's subconscious and that he will become a fully fledged swan lake lover over the course of time.

 

 

[Fonty]

@San Perregrino  I appreciate the points you are making, but these were not children and would certainly not have required baby sitters.  One of them was a year away from being able to vote in UK elections.

And moderators, I am conscious that much of this is nothing to do with Swan Lake itself.  Perhaps these posts could be moved to the Audience Behaviour thread?  

[Linnzi5]

I have to say, this is the first time that teenagers/children have not behaved that well at a performance I've attended at ROH. I've been to many performances with much younger children who have always been impeccably behaved.

 

@Fonty The father did nothing - just ignored the son who was being silly, or held his arm across the older son, who was in between them, or spoke back to him. The family were not speaking English, so possibly they didn't understand how to conduct themselves at ROH? Or maybe they were just not very considerate people. They didn't return after the first interval, so I was very relieved! 

 

The issue I  particularly had is that the boys' antics disturbed me as they were directly in my field of vision and I ended up being irritated and then distracted, especially in the beautiful Act II PDD. For this reason, I slightly preferred the performance on 15th March, though otherwise it was as beautiful as the previous one and in fact, some bits I liked better. 

I generally have been very lucky at ROH, though the odd mobile phone has been out, otherwise I can't complain.

[Emeralds]

Re: the discussion on what age children should be "allowed" at ROH/ Swan Lake,  I do recall one of the youngsters in our family going to the RB Swan Lake for the first time aged....5 and a half! (Dear me, could have sworn it was actually older ....but newspaper reviews don’t lie!)

 

No chatting, no yawning (helps if the kids have a nap beforehand or aren't tired out before the show by a whole day of sports or other tiring activities).....child's only faux pas, if one calls it that, was applauding her fouettés halfway because the music was at the part where it sounded like they were finished! To be fair, her fouettés were very fast and spectacular......some audiences in other cities would be applauding too. 

 

NB this is not a recommendation to take all children at the age of 5 or 6. You have to know the child. (Or prep the child adequately- and lead by example.)

 

The child was also the one who reminded us grownups to turn off our phones before each act and to stop talking when the lights were darkened!  😀  

 

On the other hand, the most disruptive behaviour I've seen at Swan Lakes or at the ROH has still been from adults- including a few who boasted loudly to their companions that they attended the ballet a lot and knew a lot about the dancers.....

Edited April 2 by Emeralds

[Mary]

58 minutes ago, Linnzi5 said:

The family were not speaking English, so possibly they didn't understand how to conduct themselves at ROH?

i sympathise greatly with the severe annoyance - it sounds dire - but -I realy don't think there is any correlation here..

 

Perhaps we could move this discussion to the Audience thread?

[Linnzi5]

12 minutes ago, Mary said:

i sympathise greatly with the severe annoyance - it sounds dire - but -I realy don't think there is any correlation here..

 

Perhaps we could move this discussion to the Audience thread?

I don't want to derail the thread and only mentioned my annoyance at the distractions as it impacted by SL viewing. However, I will say that I disagree with you on your point. The people I talked about were tourists and may never have been to the ballet, so didn't understand it's not like the cinema. It wasn't a criticism of them, I just wondered if they thought it was ok to chat etc.

 

Mods - please feel free to move my posts to the appropriate thread if this is considered too off topic. Thank you  

[Fonty]

2 hours ago, Linnzi5 said:

I don't want to derail the thread and only mentioned my annoyance at the distractions as it impacted by SL viewing. However, I will say that I disagree with you on your point. The people I talked about were tourists and may never have been to the ballet, so didn't understand it's not like the cinema. It wasn't a criticism of them, I just wondered if they thought it was ok to chat etc.

 

 

 

I would be equally annoyed by people behaving like that at the cinema.  And I think that everyone is fully aware of the correct behaviour in theatres and cinemas, no matter what their nationality happens to be.  Unless it is obviously one where audience participation is encouraged, such as pantomime.  

[Jan McNulty]

13 hours ago, art_enthusiast said:

 

Yep. It would make sense to test them out in less prestigious and expensive theatres first before bringing them to the ROH. 

I find that a rather arrogant statement.

[Jan McNulty]

8 hours ago, Fonty said:

 

I would be equally annoyed by people behaving like that at the cinema.  And I think that everyone is fully aware of the correct behaviour in theatres and cinemas, no matter what their nationality happens to be.  Unless it is obviously one where audience participation is encouraged, such as pantomime.  

I think that is not necessarily the case.

 

Different cultures may have different ideas of what is acceptable.

[Fonty]

2 hours ago, Jan McNulty said:

I think that is not necessarily the case.

 

Different cultures may have different ideas of what is acceptable.

 

Possibly.   But surely in that case the behaviour of everyone else around them should be a clue?  The teenage boys might not have been aware, but the adult certainly should have been.

 

I have to say that some of the most annoying behaviour I have experienced recently has been from older British people.  Who definitely should know better.  I went to the cinema recently, and half a dozen OAPs were gossiping loudly as the film progressed. I had to get out of my seat and go and speak to them to tell them to keep quiet.  They showed their disapproval of me by sending two of the party out for ice creams and popcorn, with loud requests for "strawberry ice cream if they have it, otherwise vanilla".  All while the film continued.  No doubt they went home and complained about my behaviour for telling them off in the first place.  

[CCL]

Fonty, I witnessed similar behaviour on Saturday afternoon from two women at the Old Vic. They kept up a running commentary and were singing along (it was the Live Aid musical, ‘Just For One Day’). I asked them to stop, my daughter also had stern words with them, and another person spoke to an usher during the interval. They reacted as though we were the problem and were spoiling their fun! 

Edited April 3 by CCL
Typos!

[art_enthusiast]

3 hours ago, Jan McNulty said:

I find that a rather arrogant statement.

Not really.

 

The ROH top price seats are higher than average theatre costs - at least they used to be, not sure if that’s still the case.

 

It’s not somewhere you should go on a whim - IF you have children who can’t be respectful in public, like the ones Fonty described. If you don’t, this consideration doesn’t apply.

[Fonty]

10 minutes ago, art_enthusiast said:

Not really.

 

The ROH top price seats are higher than average theatre costs - at least they used to be, not sure if that’s still the case.

 

It’s not somewhere you should go on a whim - IF you have children who can’t be respectful in public, like the ones Fonty described. If you don’t, this consideration doesn’t apply.

 

@art_enthusiast  I didn't have a problem with any children, I was responding to the OP's comment.  Sorry, forgotten who it was.

[bangorballetboy]

56 minutes ago, art_enthusiast said:

 

The ROH top price seats are higher than average theatre costs - at least they used to be, not sure if that’s still the case.

 

I'm not sure the price of tickets has any bearing on whether a show is suitable for children or how they behave (or whether a venue is "prestigious", which to me sounds awfully like "elitist").  After all, a top price ticket for The Lion King*, just down the road from the ROH, is more expensive than a top price ticket for Swan Lake.

 

*info from the SOLT 2023 ticket price survey (via The Stage)

[LinMM]

I suppose parents can’t always judge how their children will respond in every situation.
There was a lot of criticism of the father of the teenage boys in an above post but to me it looks like he took action…the boys were causing some bother so they didn’t come back for the last two acts!! 

[Jan McNulty]

6 hours ago, art_enthusiast said:

Not really.

 

The ROH top price seats are higher than average theatre costs - at least they used to be, not sure if that’s still the case.

 

It’s not somewhere you should go on a whim - IF you have children who can’t be respectful in public, like the ones Fonty described. If you don’t, this consideration doesn’t apply.

 

 

But surely that applies to any theatre anywhere...  

 

Your statement makes the ROH seem even more snobbish than people may already think.

[Garnier]

I hope this won't sound arrogant, but I have two children who, generally speaking, are thought to be very well-behaved and I'm lucky to be able to take them pretty much everywhere. In December last year, I took them to a full-length ballet (Nutcracker). The older one (9) was wearing dark-coloured tights and, in the dark, I couldn't see that every time she became particularly excited with the beauty of what she was watching, her legs (which didn't reach the floor) would jump out and hit the back of the chair of the older lady in front of her.

 

At the interval, the lady gently but firmly explained to my daughter that she should avoid doing that. My daughter was clearly mortified and I could see the tears welling up in her eyes, but I was very pleased that the lady had told her directly (and I thanked her for it). The lady could clearly see that it hadn't been intentional and asked my daughter some questions about herself, whether she was doing ballet classes, etc - so there was no anger, but just a stong belief that she (my daughter) would only learn by being told not to do this.

 

All that to say that it was an excellent lesson for my daughter.

 

Fast-forward to last week: we saw Don Quichotte, she was sittting on one of the fold-out seats, and not a single kicked leg from what I could see (and certainly no complaints from the person seated in front!).