Audience Behaviour - Thread 2

[Sophoife]

There are some risks in politely asking people not to lean forward. Late last year at Romeo and Juliet in Melbourne I leaned forward, used one finger to politely tap the shoulder of the tall man in front of me, and asked him please not to lean forward, as neither I nor the people in the ten rows behind me could see a thing. He did not react well. He slapped his hand in my direction and hit my leg.

 

At interval he loudly and vehemently reported me to the ushers for assaulting him - according to him I punched him in the shoulder and slapped the back of his head. An usher came to me and asked me for my version. I'm 5'3" and dumpy. He was a good 14, maybe more, inches taller than me. All of a sudden another voice chimed in and corroborated my story, she had been sitting directly behind me. It was she who then suggested I show the ushers where he had slapped me. As I bruise very easily there was an enormous mark on my thigh, just above the knee.

 

He was escorted from the building by security, loudly protesting he'd paid for his seat and was entitled to stay. I was given an empty seat in the front row of the circle. I believe his lady friend was permitted to stay, I really hope she didn't have a bad time on next seeing him.

 

So thank you, unknown lady from behind. Thank you Arts Centre ushers and security. Gosh I hope that man's not there this year! 😂

[SheilaC]

One of my most embarrassing moments was, many years ago, at the premiere of a new production of Swan Lake in Leeds, by Northern Ballet Theatre.  I was sat in the back row of the stalls but my concentration was badly affected by someone standing behind me who kept moving about. In the end I turned and glared fiercely at the poor man....... who turned out to be Christopher Gable, the NBT artistic director and whose production it was. He was motionless after that. But I was mortified, he was-is- one of my favourite male dancers ever and not just because he was the most inspired partner of Lynn, but also because of his technique, his acting ability, his charisma- I often think of him when I see Matthew Ball who has similar qualities.

 

And yes, he was initially in the opera ballet, it was Lynn who persuaded the touring group management to employ him as she knew he'd be an ideal partner for her. RIP both of them.

[JNC]

Gosh @Sophoife that sounds awful. I’m glad he was removed (as he should have been!). 

[Sophoife]

I'd never seen him before (it's my subscription seat so the same each time I go) so I just hope he was a one-off using the usual person's tickets and will never be there again.

 

Hey ho Don Q next week ("reimagined from the iconic 1973 film") but then I'm treating myself to Cinderella (Morera/Ball) and Sleeping Beauty (Takada/Hay) while in Europe.

[Dawnstar]

@Sophoife That sounds like a nightmare. I think if anything like that ever happened to me I'd never dare to set foot in a theatre again. Hence why I never dare say/do anything to annoying audience members beyond glaring at them, which probably isn't visible in the dark anyway.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Dawnstar
Spelling

[NotadanceMa]

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/mar/14/snobbery-about-audience-behaviour-stifles-theatre-its-a-collective-experience?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[LinMM]

Oh dear looks like we are doomed then if this is going to be the trendy opinion now. 
The trouble is I think she is comparing too many different types of theatre experiences… a poetry reading experience is totally different to a ballet type experience so I don’t think can be compared …and neither to an outdoor venue!! 
She doesn’t seem to worry about the aftermath of all this eating and the mess people make. Some people always expect others ( eg: ushers etc)  to pick up their rubbish after them!!! 
And I think we’ve moved on from the fruit throwing days lol! 
 

[bridiem]

34 minutes ago, NotadanceMa said:

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/mar/14/snobbery-about-audience-behaviour-stifles-theatre-its-a-collective-experience?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

Interesting (encouraging) that the vast majority of the Comments beneath this article are scathing about its content.

[art_enthusiast]

2 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

@Sophoife That sounds like a nightmare. I think if anything like that ever happened to me I'd never dare to set foot in a theatre again. 

 

It's a shame though because you're the one who should be setting foot in the theatre, instead of these types of people - as you know how to behave properly!

[Sophoife]

2 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

@Sophoife That sounds like a nightmare. I think if anything like that ever happened to me I'd never dare to set foot in a theatre again. Hence why I never dare say/do anything to annoying audience members beyond glaring at them, which probably isn't visible in the dark anyway.

 

Aww @Dawnstar no! You know how to behave.

 

I reckon the fact that the lady friend was allowed to stay says she either didn't say anything or otherwise failed to corroborate his punching and slapping rubbish. I've had a couple of other bad experiences but gosh, I couldn't imagine never seeing live performance again.

 

And a good glare can be felt in the dark. Keep it up 😉

[art_enthusiast]

1 hour ago, LinMM said:

Oh dear looks like we are doomed then if this is going to be the trendy opinion now. 
The trouble is I think she is comparing too many different types of theatre experiences… a poetry reading experience is totally different to a ballet type experience so I don’t think can be compared …and neither to an outdoor venue!! 
She doesn’t seem to worry about the aftermath of all this eating and the mess people make. Some people always expect others ( eg: ushers etc)  to pick up their rubbish after them!!! 

 

Exactly, and it's ridiculous that she seems to think these audience behaviour complaints come from some sort of "snobbish elite" only? Luckily many of the comments below the article refute this.

 

I think it's obvious that your social/economic background doesn't influence the way you behave in the theatre, as I've observed from the ROH audiences anyway - at times it can be the older/well off clientele who can't behave properly, so there's no rule of thumb whatsoever here. Being the recipient of a cheaper ticket offer has nothing to do with it. (Also invites unfair and inappropriate speculation about people you don't even know... this really isn't needed in the 21st century, I would think!)

As one of the comments underneath the article said: "It's not about snobbery, it's about consideration not selfishness."

[Pas de Quatre]

I have had two bad experiences with "posh" ladies sitting next to me. One was wearing too much, no doubt very expensive, perfume which was asphyxiating.  Another time it was the multiple bracelets that clanked every time the owner moved her arm, and of course she was a fidget, forever patting her hair or tucking strands behind her ear!

[Sim]

1 hour ago, art_enthusiast said:

 

Exactly, and it's ridiculous that she seems to think these audience behaviour complaints come from some sort of "snobbish elite" only? Luckily many of the comments below the article refute this.

 

I think it's obvious that your social/economic background doesn't influence the way you behave in the theatre, as I've observed from the ROH audiences anyway - at times it can be the older/well off clientele who can't behave properly, so there's no rule of thumb whatsoever here. Being the recipient of a cheaper ticket offer has nothing to do with it. (Also invites unfair and inappropriate speculation about people you don't even know... this really isn't needed in the 21st century, I would think!)

As one of the comments underneath the article said: "It's not about snobbery, it's about consideration not selfishness."

I am not surprised by the content of her article, but am pleasantly surprised by the comments underneath.  Just goes to show....left, right or centre, people just want to watch a play, ballet or opera in peace and without being distracted, and to be able to get lost and immersed in what is happening onstage.  And as someone pointed out, to compare poetry readings in Pakistan to theatre in the UK is somewhat ridiculous.  They are two completely different things. According to this writer, it is 'class snobbery and cultural elitism' to want to watch a play or ballet or opera in peace.  What a ridiculous assertion.  My husband is from a council estate in Liverpool.  He was born into a flat with just cold running water, from a family of factory workers and dockers.  He is certainly not of the 'toffee nosed' variety that this writer infers.  But hey, he likes seeing things onstage with an audience who also want to get immersed.  He doesn't want to hear people eating, drinking, chatting or looking at their phones.  I suppose that wipes away his working class cred and makes him a snob and cultural elitist.  I can't wait to tell him, he will think it's hilarious!  

[LinMM]

There are some performances like Spanish Flamenco in small venues where often the audiences know each other and the performers and the audience is encouraged to vocalise support at these events and of course there are the sing a long ABBA shows but most people are intelligent enough to know what atmosphere is suitable for different types of performances. 
I was wondering whether the lady who wrote the article had in fact herself been a popcorn eater at the opera quite recently lol!! 

[Balletbloke]

I finally received an answer to my email to the Coliseum regarding people eating and drinking during the performance of Swan Lake. Here's the relevent reply:

"As an entertainment venue, we allow both drinks and snacks inside the auditorium. We are firm in the belief that being allowed to eat and drink whilst watching performances enhances one's enjoyment. There is no rush before the start of the performance or in the interval, and customers can take their time over the drink or snack they have. Furthermore, there may be medical or other reasons why a customer must eat or drink during a performance. By allowing anyone to take food and drink inside the auditorium, we are mitigating against this being a problem."

Make of this what you will, but I certainly won't be returning there.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Balletbloke

[LinMM]

I just got a reply from the Coli today about them not having a cloakroom any longer. 
The gist of it is that as only 3 per cent of people used it they wanted to put the space to better financial use and that anyway many other theatres had got rid of their cloakrooms since the pandemic so they were “falling in line” with other central London venues. 
So that’s it….it obviously won’t be coming back 😥

[Sim]

15 minutes ago, Balletbloke said:

I finally received an answer to my email to the Coliseum regarding people eating and drinking during the performance of Swan Lake. Here's the relevent reply:

"As an entertainment venue, we allow both drinks and snacks inside the auditorium. We are firm in the belief that being allowed to eat and drink whilst watching performances enhances one's enjoyment. There is no rush before the start of the performance or in the interval, and customers can take their time over the drink or snack they have. Furthermore, there may be medical or other reasons why a customer must eat or drink during a performance. By allowing anyone to take food and drink inside the auditorium, we are mitigating against this being a problem."

Make of this what you will, but I certainly won't be returning there.

Genuine question:  do ballet/opera audiences in, say, Paris, Vienna, Milan, Stuttgart take food and drink into the auditoriums?  

[San Perregrino]

Prior to BRB Swan Lake at Sunderland Empire on Saturday there was the following announcement:

”Please do not talk or speak during the show unless encouraged to do so."

That's a new one on me and gets a big thumbs up!

[alison]

52 minutes ago, Balletbloke said:

I finally received an answer to my email to the Coliseum regarding people eating and drinking during the performance of Swan Lake. Here's the relevent reply:

"As an entertainment venue, we allow both drinks and snacks inside the auditorium. We are firm in the belief that being allowed to eat and drink whilst watching performances enhances one's enjoyment. There is no rush before the start of the performance or in the interval, and customers can take their time over the drink or snack they have. Furthermore, there may be medical or other reasons why a customer must eat or drink during a performance. By allowing anyone to take food and drink inside the auditorium, we are mitigating against this being a problem."

 

Eating and drinking during the performance may enhance one's enjoyment, but what about the enjoyment of the score of people sitting round them?  As for medical reasons, fair enough, but in my experience those who need to eat/drink for medical reasons come prepared, and are very discreet about doing so.  After all, popcorn and sweets - which the Coliseum sells - probably aren't the most suitable foods for helping with their medical problems.

 

And remind me: this is indeed the same venue which, pre-pandemic, wouldn't allow you to take any food or drink, even water, into the venue?

[JNC]

If anything it’s likely to be poorer people who have saved up money to go to a special experience who don’t want to be distracted by others!

 

A sing along musical or concert is totally different to a ballet/opera where being able to hear the music is a key part of the live performance. 
 

it basically boils down to - does it bother you? Maybe not. But does it bother others/disrespect the performers? If yes then show some respect and decency. Is it such a sacrifice and difficulty to not eat/drink/look at your phone for at most about an hour (until the interval). 
 

I highly doubt any actor would appreciate an audience member joining in or heckling (panto excepted) so theatre is NOT a dialogue!

 

and the problem with eating popcorn more quietly is well…how quiet is quiet enough? Much easier to just say no.

 

I am relieved many of the comments disagree and call the writer out for simply grouping people who want a respectful, engaging experience without distraction as common courtesy and sense, not some “snobbish elite” tactic for pushing working class people out of audiences. Pure nonsense. 

also alarming this woman is the head theatre critic at the guardian, not a generic columnist as I expected. Maybe she doesn’t value theatre/opera etc if she gets free tickets all the time and has to view things she doesn’t want to. Not the case for 99% of us! The irony here is that as a theatre critic she is what many would think is the “elite”!

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by JNC

[Tango Dancer]

2 hours ago, LinMM said:

There are some performances like Spanish Flamenco in small venues where often the audiences know each other and the performers and the audience is encouraged to vocalise support at these events and of course there are the sing a long ABBA shows but most people are intelligent enough to know what atmosphere is suitable for different types of performances. 
I was wondering whether the lady who wrote the article had in fact herself been a popcorn eater at the opera quite recently lol!! 

 

Yes, I go to Bellydance performances and shows and you're encouraged to whoop and zagharit (ullulate) at the exciting bits and when someone does something really impressive (I suppose the equivalent of applauding after Odile's 32 fouettes or an exciting coda or variation). 

 

But that doesn't mean you talk and make noises throughout and you'd be fairly well silenced if you did.  So they're louder as a whole but that doesn't mean you don't listen quietly most of the time.  

Edited March 14, 2023 by Tango Dancer

[Sim]

2 hours ago, Balletbloke said:

I finally received an answer to my email to the Coliseum regarding people eating and drinking during the performance of Swan Lake. Here's the relevent reply:

"As an entertainment venue, we allow both drinks and snacks inside the auditorium. We are firm in the belief that being allowed to eat and drink whilst watching performances enhances one's enjoyment. There is no rush before the start of the performance or in the interval, and customers can take their time over the drink or snack they have. Furthermore, there may be medical or other reasons why a customer must eat or drink during a performance. By allowing anyone to take food and drink inside the auditorium, we are mitigating against this being a problem."

 

What a load of nonsense.  What's it's all about is making money.  Why not just be honest and say so?

[Sim]

1 hour ago, PeterS said:

Prior to BRB Swan Lake at Sunderland Empire on Saturday there was the following announcement:

”Please do not talk or speak during the show unless encouraged to do so."

That's a new one on me and gets a big thumbs up!

That's funny.  I wonder when/how you would be encouraged to speak during Swan Lake?!!

[LinMM]

Hiss at von Rothbart? 

[Geoff]

3 hours ago, Balletbloke said:

I finally received an answer to my email to the Coliseum regarding people eating and drinking during the performance of Swan Lake. Here's the relevent reply:

"As an entertainment venue, we allow both drinks and snacks inside the auditorium. We are firm in the belief that being allowed to eat and drink whilst watching performances enhances one's enjoyment. There is no rush before the start of the performance or in the interval, and customers can take their time over the drink or snack they have. Furthermore, there may be medical or other reasons why a customer must eat or drink during a performance. By allowing anyone to take food and drink inside the auditorium, we are mitigating against this being a problem."

What an appallingly stupid, incomplete and disingenuous reply. I wonder if they will now send something similar in response to my own list of complaints? 
 

However I don’t think too much blame should attach to the hapless author of the miserable missive you received. It clearly comes from a junior member of staff, no doubt ill trained, underpaid and thoughtlessly replying without getting sign off from senior management. Not untypical of the arts, where in my professional experience low-grade but complacent people fill far too many positions of authority.
 

Might I make a suggestion? It seems worth your sending the note you got (along with your comment) to someone in authority, to ask if they agree with this alleged “policy” being so baldly expressed, one benefit claimed that nonetheless is at the cost of others’ enjoyment.
 

But who to send their reply on to? We are currently being encouraged to “save” the ENO (who own and run the Coliseum), despite it having been astonishingly poorly led for at least the last ten years. So I’m torn as to where to send it. 
 

The ENO Chairman who has presided over their recent disastrous era is a Harley Street doctor and medical entrepreneur called Harry Brunjes. Dr Brunjes can be reached via the ENO but my hunch would be to write to someone slightly less implicated in the current state of the house, and more distanced from the day to day running and so better able to take an objective point of view, the ENO President Sir Vernon Ellis.
 

Sir Vernon is a former ENO Chair himself, a philanthropist who has helped restore the Coliseum. He can be reached here (this information is public, by the way, from the Charity Commission documents they have posted online): vernon@vernonellis.net

[Dawnstar]

3 hours ago, JNC said:

and the problem with eating popcorn more quietly is well…how quiet is quiet enough? Much easier to just say no.

 

It's all very well the Guardian critic saying people can just eat popcorn quietly but that does nothing to reduce the smell of it, which is the thing I find most objectionable about popcorn.

 

As for the reply @Balletbloke got from the Coliseum, I am speechless.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Dawnstar
Typo

[Mary]

I had the same reply. It adds insult to injury really.

 

[Linnzi5]

15 hours ago, Balletbloke said:

I finally received an answer to my email to the Coliseum regarding people eating and drinking during the performance of Swan Lake. Here's the relevent reply:

"As an entertainment venue, we allow both drinks and snacks inside the auditorium. We are firm in the belief that being allowed to eat and drink whilst watching performances enhances one's enjoyment. There is no rush before the start of the performance or in the interval, and customers can take their time over the drink or snack they have. Furthermore, there may be medical or other reasons why a customer must eat or drink during a performance. By allowing anyone to take food and drink inside the auditorium, we are mitigating against this being a problem."

Make of this what you will, but I certainly won't be returning there.

Well. That's one venue to cross off my list then  . . . I do not see how eating would enhance anyone's performance of ballet!, including mine!  🙄

[zxDaveM]

12 hours ago, LinMM said:

Hiss at von Rothbart? 

 

shout - "he's behind you!!"

 

[zxDaveM]

As for the Coliseum's food/drink policy in the auditorium, I guess you could say it is vaguely making sense re the half time queues (though my guess it would be the very same people just stocking up for the 2nd part) - but 'for medical reasons'! What tripe!

 

I would really love to see ENB's Giselle (by Mary Skeaping) but may well be giving it a swerve due to their choice of London venue

[San Perregrino]

15 hours ago, Sim said:

That's funny.  I wonder when/how you would be encouraged to speak during Swan Lake?!!

 

i don't think it was a Swan Lake specific announcement.  possibly a leftover from panto season, but hey just like airline safety briefings its good to have it repeated so that it's fresh in the mind.

[Sim]

2 hours ago, zxDaveM said:

As for the Coliseum's food/drink policy in the auditorium, I guess you could say it is vaguely making sense re the half time queues (though my guess it would be the very same people just stocking up for the 2nd part) - but 'for medical reasons'! What tripe!

 

I would really love to see ENB's Giselle (by Mary Skeaping) but may well be giving it a swerve due to their choice of London venue

Yes, the thought of having to listen to popcorn munching through Act 2 is very off-putting. 😡

Do the companies that rent the Coli have any say?  For example, could ENB tell the Coli that they would rather not have people munching their way through Giselle?  I somehow doubt it.

[Sophoife]

Dear God. My local cinema sells nachos so I refuse to go there. The nearest decent cinema aka one that doesn't sell nachos is 3½ hours away by road.

 

My niece (then 4) told her father (thinking he was being kind to try to explain the plot) "No talkin' in the ballet Daddy!" which had the extra effect of shutting up the two elderly ladies in front who were comparing Productions They Had Seen - in normal speaking voices during a performance. Her father asked at interval why she had told him not to talk and she said with a shocked look on her face, "But Daddy they are PEOPLE dancin'. They might hear you and fall over!" She also pointed out that her mother, grandmother and two aunts had all told her very firmly not to talk if the lights were off. That's not elitist it's good manners.