Vocational school applications for Y7 entry 2022

[meadowblythe]

@BalletBoysDad to clarify my DS went from one MDS school to another.  The comparison I am making is about academics at differing vocational schools.  

 

 

[Raquelle]

My Dd initially said she didn't want to apply to ballet schools...then said "if I do apply and get in do I have to go?" To which i said no, we'd decide at the time. I'm not from a ballet background and we didn't even get open days due to covid so we decided to go with the flow and see what happened! It was a lovely experience travelling around to auditions during lockdown, we made some wonderful friends, Dd got to dance in a studio after months of zooms....going to auditions sealed it for us...she came out beaming and said she hoped she would get in! We had 3 offers and went with our first choice....it still took a few weeks to decide for sure...its a huge financial burden (even with mds)....

Academically I can't really comment as she is only year 7 but I'd say the small classes make a huge difference and it's better than her local comp! It's not been easy...she loves it there but homesickness is hard but overall she is where she has chosen to be...and if things change we will cross that road when it comes to it! Good luck with your decision 👍 xxx 

[Balletbuds80]

You have all given great valid points for consideration. I hadn't even considered academics which is silly considering thats why they go to school! 
i will speak to my DD nearer the time and see if she still feels the same about auditioning but will go through with her what the ‘Nos’ or ‘Yes’ could mean.
I suppose it all depends on if she is offered anywhere as it could all be a no anyway. If it is, i know she has great options to stay local and if its a yes, i’ll have to deal witb it when the time comes. 
I hope you have all enjoyed your experiences and the decisions that you have come to or have been made for you and wish your Dc’s the best of luck. 

[Balletbuds80]

14 hours ago, Waverley said:

I honestly think it’s going to be so different for every child. For a start, I would say to be led by your DD/DS – if they want to try then let them try and see how it pans out, but stress the fact that auditions are fun and all good experience and treat it all as an adventure/a lovely night in a hotel/a change to go out for dinner or get an ice cream after etc.

 

It’s a long year and their opinion on what they want to do may well change over the course of that year. We know so many people who thought they wanted a particular school or to go down a particular route this time last year and their experiences at the auditions (or their reactions to the results) have really changed things.

 

If you don’t try, then you’ll never know if vocational school was an option or not. Having said that, I personally didn’t want to let DD try for any schools that she didn’t particularly want to go to, not least because I didn’t want to incur any unnecessary audition fees or travel costs.  Maybe she would have got offers elsewhere – I don’t know – but it doesn’t really matter as it was her decision not to apply.

 

In terms of the bigger question of whether vocational school at 11 is the ‘best’ route or not, I think it depends on a multitude of things, including:

• The personality of your child
• Your financial position – if you get a large MDS grant then vocational school may cost less than current dance fees (and on the contrary, if you would be liable to pay a hefty parental contribution then is it financially viable?)
• Where you live and what access you have to vocational level teaching (if that’s what they want) and if you can afford regular private lessons etc
• Whether you want to (or are able to) drive around to various classes/associates schemes/performance opportunities through the week and at weekends
• Whether you have other children, how old they are, how much time or attention they need (and potentially how much time is spent away from them if you’re doing the dance runs all the time)
• Whether they would need to board (and if so, if you and they are ok with that) or whether they could be a day pupil
• What ‘normal’ schools you have nearby and what the academic provision is like there
• Whether your child has been generally happy at school or whether being with like-minded kids in a different environment could be a positive thing
• Whether both you and your child are comfortable that even if they get an offer, they may well not get back in after the initial 3 year programme (in the case of WL) or that they may be assessed out etc at various points at the other schools
• Whether you and your child feel like you’d be able to enjoy the journey without being crushed if it doesn’t work out the way they might want it to. For most children who go to vocational school even, the chances of ending up with a career in dance are miniscule, whether that’s by their own choice or not, and that’s ok if you go into it all with your eyes open and try and enjoy the experience for what it is.

Just some thoughts – there is never going to be one right answer for everyone. Good luck with it all, whatever you decide to do, and enjoy the ride.

Thank you for this. It is very thorough. I guess if she does end up going somewhere, not to have any expectations and look at it as a private education rather than her route into a dance career which might very likely not happen 

[Ottobotto]

I really don't envy you potentially embarking on this journey! We were in exactly this position last year and and ended up going through the process with the promise that at any time if he wanted to pull out, however late, he could! He is off to VS in Sept so I'll see what happens 🤷!! The only thing I would say is do not underestimate how incredibly stressful it is! And expensive! I know lots of people comment on all the lovely hotel stays and road trips etc but if you apply to all the schools, it's a lot of trips! And a lot of petrol and accommodation money and a lot of time!! I cannot stress this enough if you are working parents as it's exhausting!!!I know  people told me it was a rollercoaster ride, but honestly, it was much more stressful than I anticipated! Keeping up with the admin alone required a PA 🤣!!! And although they all say it's pure potential , I don't truly believe that either having heard how much training, private coaching, experience lots of kids have had so be prepared for that too! I would say he hugely grew as a person throughout and his resilience is much better. But knock backs are hard, especially when you have to pick yourself back up and go again ! I think if you're totally into ballet and have a background in it it's probably easier. If you don't, it's a big ask for any parents and it's all-consuming so just be warned. And whatever anyone says, it is a hugely privileged industry and this definitely becomes more obvious as you go along. Even though you tell them from the start that they can only go if they have funding and they seemingly understand , it's awful to have to tell them that they didn't get funding so even though they've been given a place, they still cannot go! It's tough for certain.

 

Am I glad we did it? I honestly won't know until he goes and I don't really think he will either. All I know is I hope from what we've been told that he can still be a normal 'kid' who is allowed to be just that when not in school. As a teacher I'd say the academic opportunities are much more narrow but I guess that's the trade off you have to make. I think what's really hard is they get a feel for the school they like but you do too and it's not always the same one! And ultimately, I think you have to feel certain that it's right for them and how you'd like them to be living, which isn't necessarily the school they'd initially thought they wanted! Or get offered!

Good luck! 

[Fairydust]

Couldn’t agree more!

Such a tough process and time will tell on the outcomes 

All the very best to the current year 6 whatever route they have chosen x

And good luck to all those applying this year ❤️🩰

 

 

[WhatsThePointe]

On 01/06/2022 at 12:42, meadowblythe said:

Unless things have changed dramatically, I would suggest that not all dance schools offer the widest, or most rigorous, of academic educations.  Some do and are proud of it.  

 

When my DS was assessed out at the end of year 9, one of the biggest problems when moving to another vocational school,  was that he was so far behind academically and he had passed 2 selective grammar school entrance exams with flying colours.  

 

If potential parents place as much importance on academics as dance, pick your school with care.

Absolutely agree with this. My child moved from vocational to local comp mid y10 and began to perform better in academics very quickly. The year groups at ballet school may be small, but if the whole year is in one class, that's a normal size class, not a small one. And the whole range of academic abilities may be all in together, and while the bright ones may fly, and the ones with academic needs may get support, there's a whole bunch in the middle struggling to keep up. I was very disappointed in the academics my DD experienced.

[Dancing unicorn]

We too were disappointed at our first Vocational school with the academics! The bright ones had extra lessons whilst the not so bright were left behind! It wasn’t til dd got to her second school in yr10 that she got any help and managed to get herself from the lower group in maths to the middle set! A great achievement from a child who thought she was rubbish at academics! She came out with 9 good GCSE’s!!!! Something she wouldn’t have got in her first school 🥰

[tutugirl]

I may sound like a stuck record - but I have only positive things to say about the academics at Tring .

My DS got great GCSE results and 2 good grades in A level Maths and Physics .

His best friend got 3 A* and went on to do medicine .

Neither could have done any better .

[BisforBallet]

22 hours ago, tutugirl said:

I may sound like a stuck record - but I have only positive things to say about the academics at Tring .

My DS got great GCSE results and 2 good grades in A level Maths and Physics .

His best friend got 3 A* and went on to do medicine .

Neither could have done any better .

I agree with this. The academic staff this year I have found in the main to be excellent. Really good communication too. 
 

[Whiteduvet]

On 06/06/2022 at 19:56, BisforBallet said:

I agree with this. The academic staff this year I have found in the main to be excellent. Really good communication too. 
 

Seconded. My child is there. They are academically naturally very able. They are being pushed and developed academically. We chose Tring since we felt the other schools could not compete with our ‘trinity’ of academics, pastoral and vocational. Tring ticked every box: the others didn’t (some only ticked one). 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Whiteduvet

[Peanut68]

On 02/06/2022 at 07:18, Balletbuds80 said:

Thank you for this. It is very thorough. I guess if she does end up going somewhere, not to have any expectations and look at it as a private education rather than her route into a dance career which might very likely not happen 

Hmmm…. I wouldn’t necessarily make a decision based on viewing it as ‘private education’  as just as in all education - be it state or private - each school varies hugely & one school may ‘fit’ for one young person & not another. Also, I used to think private naturally would be an obvious ‘step up’. I’m actually not so sure…. Sometimes if you are amongst the brightest then a less advanced/talented student (as much relevant for dance as academics I guess?) might push them on & up. For others it may demoralise them & push them lower down.

Similarly - and sadly - you do get (in the minority, but sadly usually very dominant personalities & occasionally  over championed by staff too…) snobby, over privileged, rich brats or ‘connected’ types who too can engender change or feelings of lack of self worth, or feelings of jealousy/resentment in a young person. But afterall, not everyone is from a super rich/jet-set/celebrity family but listening to stories can make you think many are & that when you are not, you the parent are also a failure!!!! I stress that my DC has never said anything to that end nor intentionally I’m sure ever imagined I’d think this, but yes, at times I do feel inferior!!! Awful admission there…. & actually not a real genuine feeling, just passing waves of my own silly insecurity I guess! 
Trying to help kids at private school ‘keep up with the Jones’s’ is not fun (financially or morally) & is a really not nice side of vocational school. Afterall, students are - thankfully - from all walks off life due to the opportunity for funding. Although of course this funding is not shared around schools evenly & many more places are available to those who self fund…. Also, the competition for places has - as many have said here - lead to some young children to attend lots of training/associate schemes/private lessons - all having to be funded by parents so again, creating a divide as some can afford much more than others. I know many ‘regular’ private schools offer funded places to less affluent but difference often is it’s been a big family ambition to get to those schools/mix with the full fee payer echelon of society. They are maybe more prepared  for this? 
It can be awful if any child has a ‘not fitting in’ feeling.

I think staff actually are guilty of making these chasms wider as they do tend to favour the rich/connected kids….all IMHO.

Sorry if this sounds rather negative… but good to know of the uglier side of vocational school life too I think! 
Of course, many will grasp this & indeed get offers to join some friends from fabulously wealthy backgrounds on holidays on private yachts & the such…. But it’s not nice when you worry your kid coild potentially be ‘embarrassed’ of their background/home etc etc….kids can be cruel. 

Again, this is observational from experience of private & state & vocational training over several decades across family/friends. 
Also am a big believer in trusting gut instincts….

Good luck all! 

[Neverdancedjustamum]

15 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

Hmmm…. I wouldn’t necessarily make a decision based on viewing it as ‘private education’  as just as in all education - be it state or private - each school varies hugely & one school may ‘fit’ for one young person & not another. Also, I used to think private naturally would be an obvious ‘step up’. I’m actually not so sure…. Sometimes if you are amongst the brightest then a less advanced/talented student (as much relevant for dance as academics I guess?) might push them on & up. For others it may demoralise them & push them lower down.

Similarly - and sadly - you do get (in the minority, but sadly usually very dominant personalities & occasionally  over championed by staff too…) snobby, over privileged, rich brats or ‘connected’ types who too can engender change or feelings of lack of self worth, or feelings of jealousy/resentment in a young person. But afterall, not everyone is from a super rich/jet-set/celebrity family but listening to stories can make you think many are & that when you are not, you the parent are also a failure!!!! I stress that my DC has never said anything to that end nor intentionally I’m sure ever imagined I’d think this, but yes, at times I do feel inferior!!! Awful admission there…. & actually not a real genuine feeling, just passing waves of my own silly insecurity I guess! 
Trying to help kids at private school ‘keep up with the Jones’s’ is not fun (financially or morally) & is a really not nice side of vocational school. Afterall, students are - thankfully - from all walks off life due to the opportunity for funding. Although of course this funding is not shared around schools evenly & many more places are available to those who self fund…. Also, the competition for places has - as many have said here - lead to some young children to attend lots of training/associate schemes/private lessons - all having to be funded by parents so again, creating a divide as some can afford much more than others. I know many ‘regular’ private schools offer funded places to less affluent but difference often is it’s been a big family ambition to get to those schools/mix with the full fee payer echelon of society. They are maybe more prepared  for this? 
It can be awful if any child has a ‘not fitting in’ feeling.

I think staff actually are guilty of making these chasms wider as they do tend to favour the rich/connected kids….all IMHO.

Sorry if this sounds rather negative… but good to know of the uglier side of vocational school life too I think! 
Of course, many will grasp this & indeed get offers to join some friends from fabulously wealthy backgrounds on holidays on private yachts & the such…. But it’s not nice when you worry your kid coild potentially be ‘embarrassed’ of their background/home etc etc….kids can be cruel. 

Again, this is observational from experience of private & state & vocational training over several decades across family/friends. 
Also am a big believer in trusting gut instincts….

Good luck all! 

I totally agree with you @Peanut68 and this is both from personal experience and those of family and friends and acquaintances. Private education does not necessarily mean better, I’ve actually witnessed this first hand. I’ve seen the vast difference between the academics of a private school and a selective state school, with the latter being clearly more impressive from its approach to learning and teaching, assessments, pastoral care and the general feel of the place. It would be wrong to generalise of course but I myself experienced this coming from a private school to a state secondary. When I was in private education, I felt like I was in a bubble (if that makes sense). In my area, I actually know numerous parents who put their children in private education prior to Year 6 to avoid the ‘trauma’ their children might get from having to go through the state 11+ process.  This is of course not referring to vocational schools at all and I think the well known ones do have quite a good number of students who receive funding. As with any school, however, you will always have that element of “can we keep up?” once DCs see their peers shopping in the weekend or jet off to various summer intensives overseas or sport the latest expensive dancewear during non-uniform days. But this isn’t isolated to vocational schools. Again, ballet and dance in general is an expensive endeavour (I am always shocked by how much less I spend for my DC who plays sports compared to the one who dances). For one of my DC’s sports, the termly fee is less than the price of an hour studio hire in central London. I do think that especially in the last few years, to be in the right state to be competitive for a place at one of these top vocational schools, the parents would have already invested a significant amount of time and money.
 

Ultimately, you’ll know where your DC wants to be when the time comes. It’s always a good idea to let it come from them, as it will be the next few years of their lives to live. It will be easy to be persuaded by big names and possible missed opportunities but I always think the DC’s happiness and finding the right fit for a school should be priority especially when your DC is so young and likely not sure yet what they want to do or become. 

[BisforBallet]

I am just about to list for sale a Tring Park school academic uniform, bought new for my daughter last year for Form 1 if anyone is still to buy. 
Blazer, cardigan, 3 x skirts, 6 x blouses - short and long sleeved all good condition. Available after July 9th 

[Crazylife]

 

May be of interest for those looking to audition for 23/24.
I’ve just seen they are starting a PBT (Progressing Ballet Technique) Associate Scheme in Birmingham this year. My DD who had a no for JA but started at WL in year 7 found an amazing PBT teacher for classes - the same lady is going to be running the associates apparently. and it seems to be a new opportunity with the full backing of the founder of PBT.
It made a huge difference to my DD’s technique and strength, so for anyone who had a “not yet” it could be really good. Look for PBT Associates UK on Facebook or Instagram. 

 

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