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BBC News at 6...The RB's attempt to be more diverse


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Why is it always assumed that anybody who might be considered part of the 'diverse' community ???? cannot make up their mind for themselves on whether or not they want to go to the ballet/opera, attend a football match, visit a National Trust property or take further education?  Why must they be preached at as if this is something they really must do?  And why is it assumed that core audiences who patronise some arts events, are somehow elbowing out the diverse group who cannot get a look in?  It is all rather odd.

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Yup, we're so elite, even the Elite ROH doesn't want us!

 

This whole class and diversity and whatever else they call it thing is bonkers.  Can you imagine a news broadcast referring to a dog track or football ground as a place for 'common' people?  Yet somehow it is perfectly okay to have a pop at people who are doing nothing more than enjoying something.

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It was good to see the two girls, and also the youngsters being introduced to ballet, but it is a shame  a rare primetime piece about the RB, as the new season starts, had to be predicated on the tired  notion of  supposed elitism, and the implication that only very recently has anyone from a "diverse" ethnic background been welcome or successful. A rather more relevant topic, if we have to think about origins,  might have been the fact that, unusually, the RB now has 5 British principals -  the other 12 being from other countries.

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1 hour ago, Two Pigeons said:

It was also a shame that the diverse make up of other ballet companies was not mentioned.   Most people watching the report have a far greater chance of seeing ENB and/or BRB than the RB.

and an even better chance of  seeing Northern  - as  'playing at home '  ( whether the Grand, the Playhouse or  the Stan and Audrey  )  is a relatively rare event for Northern 

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2 hours ago, zxDaveM said:

...and getting casting facts wrong (Frankie was in Mayerling tonight, but not as 'the lead ballerina'. Doh!

 

Not to mention that she and Yasmine weren't promoted at the same time. 

 

My reaction was: "isn't most of this a couple of decades out of date?"  I mean, surely A Chance to Dance has been going since sometime last century?  And it's not exactly as though Hayward and Naghdi are the first ethnically diverse dancers in the company, or even the first principals.

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4 hours ago, penelopesimpson said:

Funny how nobody wants to debate it...

I'm sure there are lots of people who would like to debate this. It's a difficult and sensitive subject for some. Automatically a lot of people get defensive. A lot of people are worried to speak in case they are accused of being elitist or worse racist.

I was quite interested in the news item. I am always happy to see ballet mentioned and I am even more interested when the subject of race and colour is discussed. Because ballet is perceived as elitist and white, and generally speaking it is. This is reflected in the predominantly white audience and mostly white ballet companies. Black ballet dancers and mixed race dancers are rare. Only two mixed race ballerinas in The Royal Ballet - are you kidding me? It's 2018, no wonder it's on the news! That is hardly a good reflection of our multi cultural society. And the RB knows this otherwise they would not be doing the outreach work with youngsters that was mentioned. It's not about assuming people can't make up their own mind - it's about introducing people to an art form, encouraging both children and adults to participate and enjoy it. And what's wrong with that. Why not support this initiative and interest. The more people interested in ballet can only be positive surely.

On a personal note as a mixed race girl growing up in 70's Liverpool - I can assure you that I was always the only 'coloured' girl in every single ballet class I took. We were rare. The visiting ballet companies were always white except for the occasional Asian and the audiences were 99% white. Thank God for the DTH. It was lonely. And sometimes it still is. This is my experience. So I welcome acknowledgement of the status quo - it wasn't a perfect report but it was mentioned, and it will generate discussion which hopefully will encourage those with the power and means to create change. Which can lead to a more diverse audience, and kids of all races attending ballet class.

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7 hours ago, Sharon said:

Only two mixed race ballerinas in The Royal Ballet - are you kidding me? It's 2018, no wonder it's on the news!

But as Alison points out, this is not correct, and unfortunately reflects a very dated perception.

The RB dancers have very diverse origins... see http://www.roh.org.uk/about/the-royal-ballet/dancers. I can't detect any selection criterion  based on where a dancer comes from or their skin colour.

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Shevelle Dynott was the first Chance to Dance recruit to come through, and graduate from, the RBS. He has been with ENB since 2004.

 

The RB also has several mixed race men: Joseph Sissens, Joseph Aumeer, Francisco Serrano (all of whom graduated from the RBS in 2016, but JA spent 2 years in Paris) and Fernando Montano. 

 

I am sure that talent and promise are the two main selection criteria for all the companies mentioned above.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Richard LH said:

But as Alison points out, this is not correct, and unfortunately reflects a very dated perception.

The RB dancers have very diverse origins... see http://www.roh.org.uk/about/the-royal-ballet/dancers. I can't detect any selection criterion  based on where a dancer comes from or their skin colour.

I am not sure that was a point that was made. No one said that there was any such criterion.  Perhaps you and I can't detect any such criterion but that doesn't mean that other people don't think that it exists and  exclude themselves.  Also let's be real, it there were such a criterion, do you think it would be obvious to us all?   What I got from what was attempted was nothing more than "we're here and you too can be here - if you have the talent, the possibility exists".   That's a powerful motivator for man people

 

I don't think that the ROH is elitist and I don't think ballet is either but I DO see how they can very much be perceived to be that way. I am not sure what  is the best way of addressing the issue but this was a stab at it.   There are issues that many people have experienced and written about (credibly) and that still do exist and that should be discussed. 

 

I just wonder though... if we saw a  company wit the majority of dancers with  origins from Rwanda and Ghana, Martinique and St Lucia,  Uganda and Kenya, Zambia and Sudan, etc, would the diversity of origins be obvious to us all and would we be rushing to point this out ?

 

 

Edited by Jam Dancer
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30 minutes ago, capybara said:

Shevelle Dynott was the first Chance to Dance recruit to come through, and graduate from, the RBS. He has been with ENB since 2004.

 

Yes, and I think he was maybe still in single digits when he was featured in the BBC documentary on Chance to Dance when it first started?  I know I was very impressed with his abilities back then - so that would definitely mean 1990s - and probably before I bought a recorder in the late 90s, or I might have recorded it.

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16 hours ago, Richard LH said:

I can't detect any selection criterion  based on where a dancer comes from or their skin colour.

 

 I should darned well hope not!

 

"Deselection" might be a different matter, I suppose.

Edited by alison
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14 hours ago, Sharon said:

I'm sure there are lots of people who would like to debate this. It's a difficult and sensitive subject for some. Automatically a lot of people get defensive. A lot of people are worried to speak in case they are accused of being elitist or worse racist.

I was quite interested in the news item. I am always happy to see ballet mentioned and I am even more interested when the subject of race and colour is discussed. Because ballet is perceived as elitist and white, and generally speaking it is. This is reflected in the predominantly white audience and mostly white ballet companies. Black ballet dancers and mixed race dancers are rare. Only two mixed race ballerinas in The Royal Ballet - are you kidding me? It's 2018, no wonder it's on the news! That is hardly a good reflection of our multi cultural society. And the RB knows this otherwise they would not be doing the outreach work with youngsters that was mentioned. It's not about assuming people can't make up their own mind - it's about introducing people to an art form, encouraging both children and adults to participate and enjoy it. And what's wrong with that. Why not support this initiative and interest. The more people interested in ballet can only be positive surely.

On a personal note as a mixed race girl growing up in 70's Liverpool - I can assure you that I was always the only 'coloured' girl in every single ballet class I took. We were rare. The visiting ballet companies were always white except for the occasional Asian and the audiences were 99% white. Thank God for the DTH. It was lonely. And sometimes it still is. This is my experience. So I welcome acknowledgement of the status quo - it wasn't a perfect report but it was mentioned, and it will generate discussion which hopefully will encourage those with the power and means to create change. Which can lead to a more diverse audience, and kids of all races attending ballet class.

I take many of your points and was interested to hear about your experience in Liverpool but I wonder why everybody always assumes that diversity means race?  I had assumed that ROH's efforts were to bring in a different audience of people who might never have considered ballet before rather than targeting them on their ethnicity?

You seem to be unhappy that there are 'only two' mixed race Principal ballerina's at RB.  Surely that is a wonderful statistic?  Out of three British Principal's, two are mixed race whereas the ethnic population of GB is reckoned at less than 10%.  What can there possibly be to complain about there?

 

I would argue that ballet has always been way ahead of its time in terms of the inclusivity of it's make-up.  I do not know what percentage of RB dancers are British born but I would guess it is less than 10% which is surely something to celebrate, demonstrating as it does that ballet's only selection criteria is ability.

 

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7 hours ago, Jam Dancer said:

Perhaps you and I can't detect any such criterion but that doesn't mean that other people don't think that it exists and  exclude themselves.  Also let's be real, it there were such a criterion, do you think it would be obvious to us all? 

That's all pretty tenuous Jam Dancer...assuming other people are wrongly detecting some form of inappropriate selection  that doesn't actually exist and  excluding themselves for that reason. Or alternatively, suggesting that this form of selection MAY exist but for some reason we can't see it.  No-one looking at the diverse origins of the its dancers would reasonably conclude that the RB operates any such criterion.

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2 hours ago, Richard LH said:

That's all pretty tenuous Jam Dancer...assuming other people are wrongly detecting some form of inappropriate selection  that doesn't actually exist and  excluding themselves for that reason. Or alternatively, suggesting that this form of selection MAY exist but for some reason we can't see it.  No-one looking at the diverse origins of the its dancers would reasonably conclude that the RB operates any such criterion.

 

I think Jam Dancer has a point. Speaking as a woman, I'm not in any doubt that many/most men - not themselves sexist - can be poor at noticing sexism in others (other than in its more overt forms); it's also possible I sometimes perceive it where none exists. I'd suggest that the same applies when considering racism: being a white person I'm not in a position to judge on either count.

 

Furthermore, haven't we been talking about how incorrect the media's view of ballet as an exclusive art form is? That view doesn't come from nowhere!

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24 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

haven't we been talking about how incorrect the media's view of ballet as an exclusive art form is? That view doesn't come from nowhere!

I am not quite sure what you are saying Lizbie...  that the RB may be racist, but you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell?

And  do you think that as and when   the media describes ballet as exclusive, for whatever reason, that it must be correct?

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5 minutes ago, Richard LH said:

I am not quite sure what you are saying Lizbie...  that the RB may be racist, but you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell?

And  do you think that as and when   the media describes ballet as exclusive, for whatever reason, that it must be correct?

 

It would be complacent not to be at least open to the possibility of the first; and for the second no, that's not what I said or meant. What I mean is that, firstly, what I personally consider to be lazy journalism is possible precisely because that's what a broad swathe of the public (and therefore presumably the more diverse audience we're talking about) believes; and secondly, there is reason for people to perceive that ballet is elitist, given, for example, the expense and demographics of ballet lessons, or ballet's sometimes arcane language and codes.

 

Again, I'm not saying this is correct; I just don't think it's without foundation.

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Unless there is some evidence of racism  I don't think we should try to imagine it might be there, simply based on some notion of what others might be assuming. I see that as being perfectly fair and rational, and not complacent.

As to the second, the concept of exclusivity under discussion has been in connection with selection on ethnicity. Does a broad swathe of the public actually believe the RB selects on this basis? Surely not, but anyone who might think so just needs to be referred to relevant background details of the company's dancers.

To debate the dubious  idea that "ballet is elitist" because of the other sort of factors you mention, would be to change the subject under discussion here.

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I didn't see the news piece, but this article was posted on here a while ago: https://life.spectator.co.uk/2017/11/dancing-queens-meet-britains-next-great-ballerinas/

 

Hayward on racism in ballet: “it’s something I’ve never thought about… No one in the ballet world has ever made me aware of the colour of my skin — to be asked now makes it feel like we’ve taken a million steps back.”

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I can see where Hayward is coming from.  Why do we have to continually pigeon hole people so the relevant boxes can be ticked!  Many years ago when a sheet asking for ethnic origin of the candidate was first introduced by ballet exam boards I asked a pupil's mother what I should put, and she said that her family fitted none of the boxes and it was an identical form at academic school.  Another mother of a mixed race child felt it an intrusion, so from then on I have always ticked the "didn't enquire" or equivalent.

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Quite.  I have to say that until she was promoted to Principal and people started talking about it in the media, I had never even thought of Hayward as being mixed race - I mean, I knew she was half Kenyan, but she is so classically English/RBS-trained on stage that it would never have occurred to me to think about her as being different in some way.

 

One point I don't quite understand is how the RB can be, and has been for years, made up in large part of dancers from East Asia and from South and Central America and somehow nobody really thinks of them as contributing to diversity statistics.  It's as if they are somehow considered to be "honorary white people", when a dancer with white parentage on one side somehow isn't.

Edited by RuthE
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