Audience Behaviour

[alison]

Is that the balcony ones, Mary?  Bad mistake

 

 Putting all the others in the basement is madness.  They are served by one small staircase and one lift.

 

I make that 3 staircases (unless there are others as yet unknown to me), but otherwise I agree with you, especially given the average age of the audience.

[Mary]

Yes the Balcony- never again.

 

The downstairs loos at the Coliseum always seem very inconvenient- a long trek, and much queueing on stairs- so I am sorry ROH are following this idea.

I hope the generous and well positioned amphi provision is unaffected by all the work.

 

It is a shame if this whole project- which must be costing a fortune- reduces the audience experience while just making room for- more shops I presume.

[FLOSS]

I clearly have not been following the "open up" scheme with enough diligence but then I think that the whole scheme is difficult to justify in a world in which the need for security is far more important than boosting the earnings of each square foot of the building. There is a need to improve the Linbury but as for the rest of the scheme I am not sure that it is particularly sensible to invite people of whom you know nothing in off the street however much the catering contractor wants to boost its income.

 

On to the "facilities" or lack thereof.From the comments that I have read I take it that the ground floor lavatories are being relocated in the basement. But that still leaves the two separate suites of lavatories in the Amphitheatre the largest of which is located behind the bar with a smaller one on the far side of the building.I take it that they are not being removed or is one of them being sacrificed to provide the much needed Amphitheatre cloakroom? I hate to think what things will be like in the redesigned building at Christmas child friendly matinees if one of the Amphitheatre suites of lavatories is sacrificed to provide the space for a cloakroom.

 

I am surprised by the comments about the lack of facilities at the Barbican. I assume that you are talking about the toilets at balcony level as there are a considerable number in the basement. One of the reasons why the starting time for concerts and theatre performance is staggered is to avoid everyone in the building descending on them at the same time.  

 

As far as the Coliseum is concerned it is one of the few theatres that has an adequate number of toilets at every level in the building. Perhaps it is unfortunate that the "faciliities" for those with tickets for the stalls have the furthest to walk but it really is not that far.

Edited November 6, 2016 by FLOSS

[capybara]

Yes, that was the impression I picked up from the cloakroom staff who went to great lengths to tell me there will be one disabled toilet on the ground floor.  Putting all the others in the basement is madness.  They are served by one small staircase and one lift.

 

As well as the three staircases referred to above, there are 2 lifts down to the basement, one at each side of the House. Currently,  they are poorly signposted. They are also very slow.

[bangorballetboy]

I am not sure that it is particularly sensible to invite people of whom you know nothing in off the street however much the catering contractor wants to boost its income.

 

 

 

What about inviting people into the building who might be curious about it, and may end up attending a performance? 

[FLOSS]

I think that the open up redevelopment has little to do with encouraging people to attend performances and everything to do with the caterer's making money.After all there are all those tourists wandering around the piazza who are spending money and the caterers want some of it. I don't think that many people are going to think after buying over priced food and drink at the Opera House "I ought to be a ticket and attend a performance".

 

I wonder just how welcoming will it be possible to be ? At the moment bag searches seem to be conducted on the basis that no one who has bought a ticket poses much of a threat to the building or its occupants.I assume that there will have to be real bag searches; metal detectors just as there are at the Bastille and no one allowed to bring in large bags and suspicious packages. Telling visitors "You can't bring that in" does not sound very welcoming to me. But failing to apply real security checks such as those which apply at courthouses and other high profile buildings renders everyone working in the building or simply going there as a visitor or audience member far more vulnerable than they are at present. I don't like it but that is how the world is and failing to acknowledge that and act accordingly is both foolish and negligent.

Edited November 6, 2016 by FLOSS

[Jan McNulty]

Well I, for one, have attended performances in 2 theatres that I wouldn't have even thought about solely because I was able to wander around the FOH areas and was "drawn in".  OK one was a ballet performance at the Garnier but the other was to a performance at the Manoel Theatre in Valletta.

 

If we are talking about open houses then the Lowry is a shining example of what you can do with a spacious FOH area and I have seen people picking up brochures, looking at them over a cuppa in the cafe and then booking!

[bangorballetboy]

I think that the open up redevelopment has little to do with encouraging people to attend performances and everything to do with the caterer's making money.After all there are all those tourists wandering around the piazza who are spending money and the caterers want some of it. I don't think that many people are going to think after buying over priced food and drink at the Opera House "I ought to be a ticket and attend a performance".

 

I wonder just how welcoming will it be possible to be ? At the moment bag searches seem to be conducted on the basis that no one who has bought a ticket poses much of a threat to the building or its occupants.I assume that there will have to be real bag searches; metal detectors just as there are at the Bastille and no one allowed to bring in large bags and suspicious packages. Telling visitors "You can't bring that in" does not sound very welcoming to me. But failing to apply real security checks such as those which apply at courthouses and other high profile buildings renders everyone working in the building or simply going there as a visitor or audience member far more vulnerable than they are at present. I don't like it but that is how the world is and failing to acknowledge that and act accordingly is both foolish and negligent.

I disagree with almost every single word of this post.

[Fonty]

From looking at the pictures, I am not clear as to where non ticket holders will be allowed.  I haven't been able to get to the Opera House for some time, and the info is not clear on the website.

[alison]

Unfortunately, the "Open Up" scheme was designed well before the current security situation developed.  There are clearly security implications which will have to be addressed (see the Barbican ) - yet I wonder how for example the South Bank Centre is managing?  I haven't been in there recently.

[Jan McNulty]

No checks at SBC when I was there in August.

 

I recently thought security was being seriously stepped up in the Birmingham Hippodrome and Sunderland Empire because bags were being checked at both those theatres (which hadn't happened previously).  Security ha ha ha!!  It's to stop people taking their own booze in!!!

[Alice Shortcake]

So that's what was happening at the Birmingham Hippodrome! It never occurred to me that they were looking for booze smugglers.

[Jan McNulty]

So that's what was happening at the Birmingham Hippodrome! It never occurred to me that they were looking for booze smugglers.

Nor me Alice. Someone else told me!

[Minxette]

And is it my imagination or are there fewer cubicles than in the old one?

The toilet doors are too wide.  I have to pin myself up against the wall to open the door.  What genius was responsible for measuring the width of the doors versus the width of the cubicle?  Also, the toilet roll dispensers mean you are tearing tiny pieces of toilet paper off and can never get a whole piece of paper such is the design.  Same with the over-loaded paper towels - I resort to tearing off tiny pieces of paper.  Who thought any of this through?  The mind boggles.

[Mary]

Men should not be allowed to design women's toilets.

 

I fear some aspects of the 'open-up' scheme are in fact, as Floss says,  to do with caterers making money,- this is perhaps understandable but I don't have to like it.

A survey I have just been sent about the scheme is all about the shop,  restaurants and bars. It asks what would make me go to them more often and crucially, go to them even when not attending a performance. 'Why do I not go more often-? ' my answer was easy- Expense.

When I do go it is for a rare treat and I go because of the venue not because 'a famous chef' is in attendance or  'People are talking about the destination'-choices I was offered.

Opening up the restaurants more to a non-theatre crowd is not being egalitarian as only rich people can afford to eat there.

 

The survey also asked about closing in the terrace to turn it into a restaurant- I was glad to be able to say how very sorry this would make me. Some fresh air in the interval and beforehand- the wonderful view- this is a marvellous space and it is open and free to all ( including during the day often) already. If 'open up' means 'close it in and charge £50 a head' I am not in favour.

[Fonty]

If the Opera House is planning to get more people in to the restaurants, then perhaps they should do something about the wickedly over priced and rather indifferent food they serve.  It is one thing to dish out this sort of stuff to a captive audience, and quite another to expect people to pay for that sort of thing when they have many other choices. 

 

I was once treated to a meal in the Floral Hall restaurant, and the best way I could describe it is upmarket school dinner.  With a Ritz price tag.

[bangorballetboy]

Men should not be allowed to design women's toilets.

 

 

 

Sexist.

[capybara]

Men should not be allowed to design women's toilets.

 

 

 Mistakes have certainly been made - in the  both the Gents and the Ladies from what I can gather. However, we don't know who designed them

[billboyd]

A couple of posters refer to 'the caterers making profits'.

 

There are no outside caterers at the ROH. All profits go into the ROH bank account.

[Mary]

Sexist.

No, not sexist at all.

The built environment is overwhelmingly designed and built  by men. Very often, it turns out not to be  very user -friendly, especially  for women. Often women- espeically those with young children or the older and more frail- struggle with badly designed buildings especially toilets- a good example was the awful Ladies at Kings Cross station down a steep flight of concrete stairs- where I have often had to help women carry prams etc-thankfully now defunct.

 

That is what is sexist.

 

Things are getting better, slowly it is true . But often male architects have not been good at understanding women's needs.

[zxDaveM]

No, not sexist at all.

The built environment is overwhelmingly designed and built  by men. Very often, it turns out not to be  very user -friendly, especially  for women. Often women- espeically those with young children or the older and more frail- struggle with badly designed buildings especially toilets- a good example was the awful Ladies at Kings Cross station down a steep flight of concrete stairs- where I have often had to help women carry prams etc-thankfully now defunct.

 

That is what is sexist.

 

Things are getting better, slowly it is true . But often male architects have not been good at understanding women's needs.

 

And in that case, I think the gents have been designed by a woman!! Lots of cubicles, but half hidden, paired urinals - we don't 'go' with our friend! Whilst an increase in the limited cubicle number is welcome, it does seem excessive to me (this is the new basement ones I speak of)

[Fonty]

 Whilst an increase in the limited cubicle number is welcome, it does seem excessive to me (this is the new basement ones I speak of)

 

Oh dear, I hope that is not in anticipation of the effects of the future catering arrangements!

[Vanartus]

I'm a Friend of Covent Garden (lowest tier) and a year ago I had the "temerity" to complain about the prices, the quality of the food, the drinks, the overcrowding as every table is now a bookable eating zone...I got through to the "deputy head/chair" of Friends. I mentioned how much I preferred the selection of food and drink in Munich and Berlin, the lower cost etc and I had my head bitten off! "I was naive - the ROH had to make money. Catering contributes a lot. Did I want fewer productions? And as for Munich etc perhaps I should use my money to support the ROH more! She'd been to Munich and was unimpressed by the offer. There was nowhere to have a proper meal!" Whereas the amphitheatre restaurant is the best of the lot, I said I felt that really was enough - the ROH is not a mall! Anyway long story/rant short - we should be grateful for what we've got. Hmmmph!

[Vanartus]

PS I am in favour of ground floor open spaces and think the Lowry and Barbican are good examples of this.

[aileen]

That's very poor customer care / PR, Vanartus. If that were the head of Individual Giving then I might have been tempted to tell him / her that I would be cancelling my Friends' membership. And what a cheek to reprimand you for going to see other companies! It's your business how you spend your own money. Funnily enough, I received a request to become a Friend only today.

[Fonty]

I'm a Friend of Covent Garden (lowest tier) and a year ago I had the "temerity" to complain about the prices, the quality of the food, the drinks, the overcrowding as every table is now a bookable eating zone...I got through to the "deputy head/chair" of Friends. I mentioned how much I preferred the selection of food and drink in Munich and Berlin, the lower cost etc and I had my head bitten off! "I was naive - the ROH had to make money. Catering contributes a lot. Did I want fewer productions? And as for Munich etc perhaps I should use my money to support the ROH more! She'd been to Munich and was unimpressed by the offer. There was nowhere to have a proper meal!" Whereas the amphitheatre restaurant is the best of the lot, I said I felt that really was enough - the ROH is not a mall! Anyway long story/rant short - we should be grateful for what we've got. Hmmmph!

 

That's shocking!  I appreciate the ROH has to make money on its catering. , but there are limits.  The Amphitheatre restaurant is quite nice, but you are still paying £35 for a 3 course meal.  Add on a modest bottle of wine and some coffee, and you are sneaking up to the £50 a person price bracket.  Still, I suppose that looks good value in comparison with the Paul Hamlyn Balcony restaurant, where you would be paying the sharp end of £60 for a meal, and that is without any drinks.

 

And to add insult to injury, the menus are not particularly exciting, and the food hardly stretches the kitchen.  If I am paying those prices, I want Fine Dining, with Capital Letters, not the sort of thing that I can knock up myself very easily.

[taxi4ballet]

At the other end of the spectrum entirely...both times we've been to the ROH we have had a visit to McDonalds first

 

No way are we eating at the ROH at those prices

[Jacqueline]

I agree about the ROH menu not being very exciting given the prices. The most I have ever bought there is a coffee or cold drink and a slice of cake. I have noticed an increasing number of people unpacking home made lunches or snacks on the amphi terrace quite openly, not the rather furtive under the table style of yore. Perhaps that will change with increased security or there will be something about only food that has been bought on the premises can be consumed there.

I have complained a couple of times to the ROH about catering related matters and found it to be a futile exercise. Rather like complaining to the BBC, they seem unwilling to even entertain the possibility that they may somehow be at fault. There is a lot of competition out there, many alternatives to in house dining and not much room for complacency I would've thought.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Jacqueline

[Mary]

I do sympathise greatly with ROH in their need to make money , and in the current climate, with cuts, they must be trying to maximise income from these sources.

 

But they do need to be careful to remember that we go there because it is an exceedingly fine opera house, not a 'mall' and not in fact even a classy restaurant.

 

it is rather bad if they can't listen to some constructive criticism Vanartus, (and I look forward to trying out Munich's delights!)

 

Last time I went I thought the amphi bar was much better -after a phase last year of being packed with tables for diners, it was back to being a space to drink and chat- I even got a table-but possibly that was just the start of the season.

 

Many regulars have a sandwich (and a small M&S bottle of wine, very handy)- on the terrace in summer-probably because they can't afford otherwise after paying for tickets and travel. Even Pizza Express is  not that cheap as the one next door never seems to accept those wonderful vouchers. I used to love Cafe des Amis basement with its cosy atmosphere- omelette and frites for £7, lovely  ballet photos. Gone now alas.

 

The amphi restaurant is by no means always full. Maybe it should offer more in the way of quick, more affordable light suppers? 'An omelette and a glass of wine'?

In fact, maybe a Friends special menu would be nice or a small discount to encourage us? ( Forum Special: macaroni cheese and a cup of tea -5 bob):-)

[MAB]

Me and my friends go to the pub across the road, used to be called the Globe, think it's the Covent Garden now.  Only eaten at ROH when I was invited to a function there and food was served in the big hall. 

 

Never taken to the changes apart from the amphi lift and miss the loos and cloakrooms on all levels.  I used to like the stalls circle bar too, the new ones are too big and noisy.  Ideally they should have left things as they were or pulled the place down and built a new opera house from scratch.

[Colman]

Even if they're aiming to fleece the tourist/special event market - which is sort of fair enough, speaking as someone who's in that category when they can get to the ROH - they need to try harder. Is there anywhere in the world with more competition for before and after show food? A fancy canteen doesn't cut it.

[Jan McNulty]

I usually nip into the big Nero around the corner for a light bite.  For something more substantial I have always found Cote to be very quick, also Zizzi and Wildwood.

 

Going back to Vanartus post about his communication with the Friends office it struck me that although this thread is about audience behaviour, the person he spoke to could well be quoted here as an example of appalling unprofessionalism and bad behaviour. 

[Quintus]

Lots of cubicles, but half hidden, paired urinals - we don't 'go' with our friend! 

 

 

Paired urinals????  Perhaps it's because the average age of attendees means they need two targets just to be sure of hitting one?