Cost of living away from home 6th form dance colleges

[Siconne50]

Hi can anyone with experience of dada grant give me an idea of the cost of boarding away at schools such as ENBS, Elmhurst, Tring? I have looked at the dada website & we fall into the middle income bracket where there appears to be no help towards maintenance only tuition? Dd keen to audition for these schools but concerned about living expenses costs especially in London! Thank you 

[Lifeafterballet]

Ds and Dd on DaDas at Elmhurst. The living costs are not billed separately, there is one bill for both based on your income as with the MDS. But BUPA, RAD and uniform costs are extra. Dd was reserve for ENBS, that would have cost us, middle earns, over £5,000 a year more due to the separate London living expenses. 😰 

[Karen]

Dd on DaDa at Hammond. DaDa contribution, income based as per Gov.uk website bands,  paid direct to school in 3 termly instalments. Under 18s stay with host families and cost is in the region of £150.00 per week including breakfast, dinner and laundry for 38 weeks pa. Payment direct to family on monthly or termly basis as negotiated. Lunches, uniform/dance kit, exam fees, healthcare cover, additional 1:1 music or singing lessons are all own responsibility. So are any extras such as induction activities, theatre trips and production lighting fees. Hope this helps. 

[hoglett]

Waves bye to chance of retiring ever!

[Jan McNulty]

There is an earlier thread about the hidden costs of dance training:

 

 

And another thread about student finance for degree courses that may have some useful information:

 

 

[All4dancers]

My dd is also on a dada at the Hammond and I must say the first invoice was a bit of a shock as I hadn't accounted for extras as mentioned by Karen.  However, the overall cost is not very much more than what I paid last year to top up student finance and I feel we'll be getting so much more for the money.  Either option is financially hard!

[Lifeafterballet]

Also, with the DaDa system there is no discount for siblings. We have been assessed on our income twice, separately, with out the costs for one removed before the other is assessed 😢 It's not affordable. The only positive is that you are only assessed once at the beginning of the 3 years, so you can go mad and work / earn til you drop after 😰

I deeply regret not looking abroad. Consider all your options, not just the UK x

[Siconne50]

Thank you for your replies all very helpful! I worry about a student loan dd is keen to audition for central in London, but she could easily leave with debts of over £50,000, can't imagine many dancing jobs paying very well? It seems even with a dada we as parents will have to help a lot financially? 

[Lifeafterballet]

I think it's either they take the debt or we as parents do 😢

[Picturesinthefirelight]

1 hour ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

Also, with the DaDa system there is no discount for siblings. We have been assessed on our income twice, separately, with out the costs for one removed before the other is assessed 😢 It's not affordable. The only positive is that you are only assessed once at the beginning of the 3 years, so you can go mad and work / earn til you drop after 😰

I deeply regret not looking abroad. Consider all your options, not just the UK x

 

We will be applying this year. Is there any provision for if your income drops at all. I had quite a bit of extra/overtime last year that won't happen in the future. 

 

Also are savings taken into account?

Edited September 1, 2017 by Picturesinthefirelight

[Lifeafterballet]

I think you can request to be reassessed if you have a change if circumtances. X

[mimi'smom]

15 minutes ago, Picturesinthefirelight said:

 

We will be applying this year. Is there any provision for if your income drops at all. I had quite a bit of extra/overtime last year that won't happen in the future. 

 

Also are savings taken into account?

I believe that the drop in income has to be over a certain percentage to be eligible for reassessment but I could be wrong (this is for MDS and DaDA  - I was told 15% - I don't know about student finance.) I believe it is income earnt from savings that is taken into account (again happy to be corrected  on this!) 

[RosaMac]

They usually only reassess income if circumstances change dramatically i.e death of a parent or loss of job. 

 

[RuthE]

1 hour ago, balletjack said:

Thank you for your replies all very helpful! I worry about a student loan dd is keen to audition for central in London, but she could easily leave with debts of over £50,000, can't imagine many dancing jobs paying very well? It seems even with a dada we as parents will have to help a lot financially? 

 

While, obviously, the liability for monthly payments proportionate to income reduces a person's long-term disposable income compared with if they had no debt at all, don't forget that the structure of the current student loan system means that most people will never pay off all of that £50k, and the remainder is automatically written off after 30 years.  Student debt incurred through the formal government system is also not regarded as "debt" by credit ratings agencies.  So the amount, and the interest rate, on paper, should perhaps not scare people as much as it does.  I think those of us old enough to have gone through earlier previous student funding systems tend to get scared by the total figure, and the sight of the interest racking up, and lose sight of the fact that unless you're a high earner the total amount is essentially immaterial.

 

What presents a practical and immediate problem for many (most?) students, presumably including your DD, is that the amount of money available INCLUDING maximum loans does not provide an adequate annual income, in some cases not even covering basic rent.  That's where additional funds, whether it is a part-time job, bursaries or grants from elsewhere, and/or the good old bank of mum & dad (should it exist), become essential if the student is not to graduate with potentially crippling private debt to non-student-loan lenders.

[Pups_mum]

4 hours ago, balletjack said:

Thank you for your replies all very helpful! I worry about a student loan dd is keen to audition for central in London, but she could easily leave with debts of over £50,000, can't imagine many dancing jobs paying very well? It seems even with a dada we as parents will have to help a lot financially? 

This is true, but it's not dramatically different for students on "normal" degree courses. If my DD hadn't got her place to dance she would almost certainly have gone to university to study something like history or English, which aren't necessarily gateways to well paid work either. 

The overall costs to me are a bit more than my friends with children following a more conventional university career seem to be spending, but the difference isn't vast. The biggest difference is that I'm having to make a contribution to fees whereas theirs are all covered by loans, but other than that, living expenses etc are similar. They may not have points shoes to replace but DD isn't buying textbooks costing £100s every term, and food, rent etc are much the same.

It's a sad fact that whether our children's talents lie in the arts, sport, academia or something else, chances are it's going to involve financial pain. My middle son is currently talking about doing an apprenticeship after school rather than going to university as that way he could get a degree without the debt, which I have mixed feelings about. I feel very fortunate to have been able to spend 5 years at university without worrying about money, but sadly those days are gone and I doubt they will ever return.

I find it beneficial to compare the cost of DD's training to the cost of a regular university education rather than to the cost of her living at home. It doesn't seem quite so painful that way!

[Loulou]

Just to add dd is looking at central and whilst degree funding , the mantanence loan even for London does not cover their recommended accommodation costs , if you get the minimum loan according to income. So I think that's around £5500 for London and the housing central recommended was £16k a year for a shared room so 8k each, so as parents we would have to find the extra plus money for food, uniform, private healthcare etc. Dd did the Easter course and there was a q & a and they were quietr open about the cost and current students were quoting what  they pay

 

jo 

Edited September 1, 2017 by Loulou

[Siconne50]

Yes dd did a one day course with central & the student accommodation they recommend is approx £200 per week! Scary and as you say food etc on top of that. She might have to go as a day student if fortunate to be offered a place 😃

[Vonrothbart]

Just a thought, but would most dancers who join a company earn enough to have to pay back their loan?

[Ballet4Boyz]

Is Central planning to have their own student accommodation soon? If so - I wonder how the cost will compare ? 

Do they have the means to introduce prospective students to each other so that they can share accommodation slightly out of central London & travel in together - so reducing the rent a little ?

maybe not an  ideal situation for a 16yr old though. It just seems financially crippling !!

[taxi4ballet]

16 minutes ago, Ballet4Boyz said:

Do they have the means to introduce prospective students to each other so that they can share accommodation slightly out of central London & travel in together - so reducing the rent a little ?

New starters at several of the vocational schools quite often start a facebook group before the start of term, so they can get to know one another. Some end up arranging to share accommodation this way.

[Mummy twinkle toes]

At the Central q and a they did say the move to South Bank will allow them to take more students but they do not envisage having accomodation.

[Loulou]

Yes we were told the accomadation would remain the same when they moved, there would be private apartments in the same building but nothing to do with them and very expensive. Reckoned distance to new place would be roughly the same as where they are now 

 

Jo 

[Loulou]

I think the problem with arranging own accomadation for a central is most are only 16 so will struggle to rent privately. Whilst what they recommend is private it's all student accomadation in a block so presume ok with 16 year olds. 

[sarahw]

😣😣. 

[meadowblythe]

Not sure about London, but DS rented privately in Glasgow aged 16.  As parents we acted as guarantor, but we did with his 18 year old big brother at uni.

 

Looking back it seems incredible how much our children cope with at a young age.  I wonder if they will all find life totally boring at 30?  Presumably a lot of them will be on their second, if not third, career by then.

 

 

[Loulabelle]

Boarding for DD whilst at ENBS will be approx £10k plus the fees we will be paying once our dada is deducted.

[Siconne50]

Is that 10k per term or for the entire academic year? 

[Ballet4Boyz]

So, have I got this right ..... if your DC starts a three year diploma course at 16 with a dada award. Parents are required to pay their contribution towards the course fees + entire living costs (if you don't qualify for any help from the dada) whilst losing child benefit if they aren't taking an A levels ??

Also - I take it if they study for a degree ie at Central - your DC can then access a tuition fee loan + maintenance loan ?

Can anyone tell me if there are other ballet schools which offer the same course as Central with access to student loans ?

Do many students at this age tend to find part-time work to help out financially or does the physical demands on them from the training tend to make this just too tiring .Thanks in advance . 

[Siconne50]

As far as I know the only other school that offers the same degree course as central is Rambert? I find it amazing that dance & drama awards offer no help towards living/boarding expenses if on a middle income! Dd has had a mds award a couple of years ago & that included boarding thankfully. 

[Ballet4Boyz]

Thanks Balletjack ...... I know - it all looks so expensive !! I wonder how many students just can't afford to continue with their training post 16  due to this . 😟😟

[sarahw]

Ballet West - although only 2/3 fees covered by loan.

[balletbean]

34 minutes ago, balletjack said:

As far as I know the only other school that offers the same degree course as central is Rambert? I find it amazing that dance & drama awards offer no help towards living/boarding expenses if on a middle income! Dd has had a mds award a couple of years ago & that included boarding thankfully. 

Where we live the Student Grant (£7500) is applied to the individual student subject to the families income. The Grant can then be used for post 16 Vocational training as long as the establishment is on the approved list.  Post 18 for Unis. It gives the student more control over where they wish to study/train when the offer letters are received. Rather than relying on the schools making the final decision.  However, there is obviously a shortfall which families have still got to fund.

It sounds great however as the Grant is offered on a sliding scale the middle income families are hit the hardest (nothing unusual there) and no student loan scheme either. Cost of living is also offered to the lowest income families, this barely covers rent and food and certainly not travel. 

 

I don't think there appear to be any ideal funding arrangement, unless you are mega rich and just sign a cheque (in our dreams) 

 

Challenging times for all families, especially as many have more than one child to consider.

 

But then we wouldn't have it any other way, watching our darlings living their dream............................................ 

[meadowblythe]

 

RCS also have a ballet degree, and a lot of the English students also are awarded scholarships in addition to student funding.  It's a small course, taking between 6 and 16 students per year.  The year my son graduated 10 out of the 13  got jobs in companies, a mix of apprenticeships and full places.  Two of the others onto ballet related degrees.   Not so sure about this year's graduates.  

 

Halls in the first year were expensive, but Glasgow obviously has a lower cost of living after that than London.  Incidentally, you can stay in halls for all 3 years if you chose to, and finances allow.