zxDaveM Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 thanks everyone for correcting my misnaming of the step - I didn't know how to describe it, and I vaguely remember someone calling it that (or likening to it maybe). Whatever is called, it still looks 'wrong' to my eyes and is one of the low-lights of the ballet for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Betterankles, thank you for yet another very informative post. I finally know what we're talking about - and had a slightly nauseous "moment" on reading your description of it done "wrong", which may explain why I've always disliked it so much! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOSS Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) As de Valois acquired her five nineteenth century classics to provide a means of ensuring that her company had, and maintained the level of technical skills which would enable it to dance the widest range of ballets it would be a retrograde step to drop the RB's traditional choreography for the Lilac Fairy and replace it with something easier.It would not however be a retrograde step to apply period appropriate performance style to the role and to the rest of the ballet nor to play the score at the speed and with the dynamic contrasts which Tchaikovsky indicated and Petipa expected. I should like to think that having Koen Kessels in the pit was the first step towards the revision of the RB's performance style of this and the other nineteenth century ballets which the company acquired in the 1930's. Performing the score at the speed which Tchaikovsky intended and Petipa expected goes a long way to restoring the ballet's lightness and charm transforming it from a monument of classicism and a precursor of the abstract ballets of the twentieth century, which one watches out of a sense of duty because of its iconic status and its significance to the company, into the extravagant dance entertainment which it was intended to be. Mason has described the need to keep the nineteenth century classics living works of art for each generation of dancers who perform them. She has also said that it is impossible to keep these works alive if they are set in aspic and the dancers are not able to bring their own style and modern technique to their performances of them.The problem is that in the process of adapting to current performance style Petipa's musicality and much of the fine detail of the choreography seem to get lost.The ballet was created at a time when the dance aesthetic in Russia was one which was concerned with dance as a flow of movement rather than the current one which sometimes seems to be more interested in striking poses than with actual dancing. The style which its critics describe as "freeze framing" or "photo opportunities". It seems to me that by dancing the Lilac Fairy as a flow of movement Beryl Grey created the impression for the viewer that however expansive her gestures might have been the movement had not finished. In the film she never gives the impression that she is stretching as far as is humanly possible and the result is that the viewer is left feeling that there is a possibility that her movement and gestures might be even more expansive and that there is somewhere else for the dancer to go. I should like to see the RB take the next step to restoring the Sleeping Beauty by abandoning high extensions .returning to the low classical arabesque and restoring expansive apparently unlimited movement to the ballet. I am not suggesting that the company should dance the Sleeping Beauty exactly as ABT do Ratmansky's reconstruction because I suspect that might be a step too far and that it might encounter the same sort of resistance which the Mariinsky reconstruction did.There are after all a lot of people who have a significant emotional and professional investment in the authenticity of the RB's version of the Sleeping Beauty.What I am suggesting is that the company should make a conscious attempt to restore a style of performance which is stylistically coherent and kinetically engaging.I could happily settle for performing it in the style which de Valois insisted upon in her 1977 revival. What I am suggesting is that the company should put all its efforts into dancing the ballet in a style which displays Petipa's choreography and musicality and which emphasises elegance and harmony of movement rather than displaying the latest technical fad in extreme inharmonious movement. Extreme movement may have a place in modern choreography where the choreographer has deliberately selected them but they don't belong in a nineteenth century work. Their inclusion in such ballets is not evidence that the work in question is a living piece of theatre for its latest performers but of a complete want of taste and artistry on the part of those responsible for staging the work. Changing the text of a ballet by adapting it to modern taste and performing style does not sound that dangerous in fact it sounds quite reasonable, but the point arrives at which the work in question has been so altered by cumulative minor changes that it ceases to be recognisable as the work it said to be. I think that the RB has reached that point with the way in which it has been performing Sleeping Beauty until this latest revival when Mr Kessels' conducting had the effect of transforming the ballet into something rich and rewarding. I can only hope that we get more of Mr Kessels and far less of the specialist Russian ballet conductors in the future.The conductor is often forgotten in discussions about ballet performances.We rarely register the effect that the individual conductor can have on our appreciation of a ballet and on individual performances. But perhaps we should remember that Balanchine said that it was Constant Lambert, rather than Fonteyn, who was the real star of those New York Sleeping Beauty performances in 1949.. Edited March 10, 2017 by FLOSS 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Mason has described the need to keep the nineteenth century classics living works of art for each generation of dancers who perform them. She has also said that it is impossible to keep these works alive if they are set in aspic and the dancers are not able to bring their own style and modern technique to their performances of them.The problem is that in the process of adapting to current performance style Petipa's musicality and much of the fine detail of the choreography seem to get lost.The ballet was created at a time when the dance aesthetic in Russia was one which was concerned with dance as a flow of movement rather than the current one which sometimes seems to be more interested in striking poses than with actual dancing. The style which its critics describe as "freeze framing" or "photo opportunities". I wonder exactly what Mason had in mind when she made this statement? I would expect each new batch of dancers to try and bring their own individual interpretations to the role. It seems that Osipova has done exactly that, and while it may have divided opinion, everyone agrees that she has brought something new and different on to the Covent Garden stage. But I wonder which particular bit of modern technique she was talking about. Ballet technique may have evolved since it was first created, but I would not have thought it would have changed much over the last 50 years. Or has it? The only real changes seem to be that modern dancers appear to want to show off how flexible they are. I have not heard a single person on this forum say that hyper extensions look good in the context of 19th century ballets, partly because they create such an ugly line with a traditional tutu, and also because it means that it takes up more time in a sequence of movement, which means that the following steps are often rushed or not performed well. Is this considered an improvement?. Modern pointe shoes are probably more efficient and more comfortable than the ones people wore in the 1940s, but it doesn't seem to have created more dazzling footwork. And while modern dancers may be able to perform quadruple pirouettes with ease, the reason they see the previous generations only doing a single or double is not because they couldn't do any more. It probably means that the music doesn't allow time for them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scheherezade Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I can only hope that we get more of Mr Kessels and far less of the specialist Russian ballet conductors in the future. I think most of us would agree. Mr Kessels certainly breathed new life into this Beauty. If not by a kiss, by the energising tempi that transformed the whole production. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I have been looking at lots of lilac fairy variations on YouTube ......prompted by another contributor here and definitely the one that Sibley and Shaw danced is virtually twice the speed of some Russian versions I was looking at. But you still clearly see ( towards the very end of variation) the full little ronde de Jambe into low develope movement. This gets blurred over by some dancers and it may be little details of choreography like this which can get lost. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesrhblack Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) With my love for The Sleeping Beauty reignited by the three performances I caught this season (two in the theatre and one at the cinema), I've been listening again to the music and also reading Roland John Wiley's book in an effort to determine what I want to see in a production. I've still to formulate conclusions, although I absolutely agree with those who have written with admiration of Koen Kessels' attempts to return the score to more of a concert speed. Watching Dame Beryl Grey as the Lilac Fairy you realise how much more swiftly things were taken in former years and listening to the newly bought Previn CDs (I had his Nutcracker on LP as a ninth birthday present and upgraded to the CD as part of a complete Tchaikovsky ballet set) also how important it is for Act Two to have more of the court dances so that we really sense that time has moved on. Cinderella's Waltz is really rather beautiful too in Act Three (didn't Makarova incorporate that?) although I understand that cuts were being made to Tchaikovsky's full score even for the original performances. At some point, I will dig out my old late 1970's programme when I saw the De Valois production quite a lot, but am sure that much more of the Hunting Scene was included. Were intervals shorter as well as tempi faster? I also found on YouTube a mesmerising clip of Dame Monica Mason as Carabosse from the 1977 broadcast (which seems to have been taken down in its complete version). There are things I prefer in the current choreographic text that the Royal Ballet uses (the mocking of Crystal Fountain and Song Birds being the most obvious) but Mason's savage ferocity is really astonishing, even unnerving, and the mime is crystal clear in intent. I also think I prefer the Walker designs to the Messel. The opulent elegance of Carabosse's dress is magnificently imposing and the tutu for the Lilac Fairy is particularly beautiful, especially on somebody as ravishing as Marguerite Porter. With its fuller Hunting Scene, Ashton's Awakening Pas de Deux (possibly anachronistic but set to such beautiful music) and Sapphire Variation (am I alone in finding Silver unsatisfactory choreographically and musically) that might well be my preferred version but I need to explore others, in particular the Russians, and would very much like to see the Ratmansky reconstruction. Edited March 10, 2017 by Jamesrhblack 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Me too James. I seem to be quite obsessed with SB at the moment. Is your 1977 clip the same as the 1978 broadcast with Merle Park as Aurora? I saw this production as a teenager but my memory is very dim. There is a rather poor quality full length version still available. I've just been watching the whole thing again, looking out for things mentioned in this thread. Mason is indeed the very best Carabosse imaginable, and genuinely frightening as she should be. Porter is really beautiful but her variation isn't quite perfect- is it? I thought she fumbled it very slightly in the all too familiar fashion! Talking of speed, Park in the rose adagio is positively nifty. Another word springs to mind as dfferentiating perfomance style of that era though- naturalness. There is a sense that these people are dancing together and we are watching, rather than that the ballerina is showing off, using some male dancers for support, and we are being impressed. Floss's point about feeling- 'there is still a way to go..she is not extending/stretching to her utmost'- is also very helpful- that is definitely part of it..the body is not taut with tension like a bowstring, but a little more relaxed and thus able to move more flexibly and rhythmically. I agree about the LF costume. I didn't like the over-fussy tutu in this run very much. I think it should be just lilac- though as sparkly as you like. Back to youtube now..What else have you found? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesrhblack Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Hi Mary, yes, it must be the 1978 broadcast of what was the 1977 production - my error, for which apologies. I couldn't find the complete ballet this time and had read somewhere else that it might have been taken down so went on that assumption ("Never assume, it makes an ass of you and me,"as Nanny once said). And I do recall, as I think I've written elsewhere, that it was when the most beautiful Ms Porter danced the Lilac Fairy that I first became aware of the difficulties the solo was presenting... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 You did say that- sorry! I have just been watching a 1960s US broadcast version with Fonteyn and Blair. Incomparable Fonteyn in her 40s better than ever. Fabulous Bluebirds ( Shaw, Sibley) , and pas de trois. A gem! Some rather odd features of this production can be overlooked.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesrhblack Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I must investigate further but not tonight: early to bed as off to Lisbon with work tomorrow, as you do .... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Enjoy....I love Lisbon! Have a pastela and black coffee for me! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Who played Carabosse in that production with Beryl Grey as the Lilac Fairy and Fonteyn as Beauty. Wonderful use of the eyes and vary scary looking! I'm sure I would have been terrified if been a child! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Wall Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Who played Carabosse in that production with Beryl Grey as the Lilac Fairy and Fonteyn as Beauty. Wonderful use of the eyes and vary scary looking! I'm sure I would have been terrified if been a child! Was it not Ashton himself? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesrhblack Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Enjoy....I love Lisbon! Have a pastela and black coffee for me! It's a dash and back on Monday but I'll do my best. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 It's a dash and back on Monday but I'll do my best. If you're at CCB for the opera you're very close to Pasteis de Belem ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 The best place to eat pastelas! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesrhblack Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) If you're at CCB for the opera you're very close to Pasteis de Belem ! I am and will explore - one of my artists is singing in Tristan und Isolde :-) Edited March 11, 2017 by Jamesrhblack 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesrhblack Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Enjoy....I love Lisbon! Have a pastela and black coffee for me! Mission accomplished. Pasteis de Nata and Coffee at Manteigaria :-) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAX Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Tierney Heap was a wonderful Lilac Fairy last week in the Cuthbertson / Clarke performance. No problem in the variation, very strong dancer ! Any news from Kobayashi / Bonelli on Friday ? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Mission accomplished. Pasteis de Nata and Coffee at Manteigaria :-) Fabulous! Am very happy to hear it! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane S Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Just a footnote to the Lilac Fairy discussion: I'm a bit surprised to see Monica Mason's name mentioned so often as so far as I know she only danced the role a handful of times, over a year or so quite late on in her dancing career. I only saw her once (her debut, I think) and don't remember being blown away by her. By far my best memory is of Deanne Bergsma, who gave 70+ performances, starting when she was 19 and still in the corps de ballet. Bergsma made her debut on the same day as Vyvyan Lorrayne (aged 21 and also in the corps de ballet) and Dance & Dancers (Clive Barnes, I'd guess) featured Bergsma as its 'Dancer you will know' the next month: " June 11, 1960, will probably be remembered in Royal Ballet annals as the day the Lilac Fairies came to Covent Garden. With Vyvyan Lorrayne in the afternoon and Deanne Bergsma in the evening, the company produced a brance of lilac ladies so promising, so assured, that even the the fiendish ingenuity of Oliver Messel's new costumes could not extinguish them. .... As the Lilac Fairy [bergsma] brought to the role a young, almost shy dignity, a sort of reticent expansiveness, a blazing personality still obscured by the clouds of inexperience. Her dancing was a similar mixture, with its unusual blend of fluency and gawkiness. She was like a gracefully clumsy foal that is clearly going to become a thoroughbred racehorse. It was a most exciting debut." A wonderful description - Bergsma was 7 years away from being a principal and I really don't believe that the most senior dancers we've seen in the role over the decades were necessarily the best. Nunez excepted, obviously. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Yes, a lovely description of a debut. I agree that a dancer's actual position in a company should not be the main factor in deciding who to cast, and I have no problem at all with a corps member being given the opportunity if they are clearly suited to the role. It just seems that for years it doesn't matter who is cast, none of them have been all that comfortable, other than Nunez, who seems to have had things well under control. But then, I would expect nothing less from her. I would have loved to have seen dancers such as Bussell and Yanowsky dancing it, I am sure they were stunning. As a matter of interest, did Belinda Hatley ever do it? She was one of my favourites. Talking of costumes, I have to say that I thought the ones for Florestine's sisters were the sort that only suit the more petite dancers. The ruffled shoulder frills were deeply unflattering on the bigger ladies, making them look as though they had shoulders like heavy weight boxers. Definitely a case for casting the little 'uns in my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Just a footnote to the Lilac Fairy discussion: I'm a bit surprised to see Monica Mason's name mentioned so often as so far as I know she only danced the role a handful of times, over a year or so quite late on in her dancing career. I only saw her once (her debut, I think) and don't remember being blown away by her. By far my best memory is of Deanne Bergsma, who gave 70+ performances, starting when she was 19 and still in the corps de ballet. Bergsma made her debut on the same day as Vyvyan Lorrayne (aged 21 and also in the corps de ballet) and Dance & Dancers (Clive Barnes, I'd guess) featured Bergsma as its 'Dancer you will know' the next month: " June 11, 1960, will probably be remembered in Royal Ballet annals as the day the Lilac Fairies came to Covent Garden. With Vyvyan Lorrayne in the afternoon and Deanne Bergsma in the evening, the company produced a brance of lilac ladies so promising, so assured, that even the the fiendish ingenuity of Oliver Messel's new costumes could not extinguish them. .... As the Lilac Fairy [bergsma] brought to the role a young, almost shy dignity, a sort of reticent expansiveness, a blazing personality still obscured by the clouds of inexperience. Her dancing was a similar mixture, with its unusual blend of fluency and gawkiness. She was like a gracefully clumsy foal that is clearly going to become a thoroughbred racehorse. It was a most exciting debut." A wonderful description - Bergsma was 7 years away from being a principal and I really don't believe that the most senior dancers we've seen in the role over the decades were necessarily the best. Nunez excepted, obviously. Lovely review, Jane S! Makes me wish I'd seen Bergsma dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesrhblack Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) Vyvyan Lorrayne; that I'd liked to have seen. Her Summer from Cinderella on the Sibley / Dowell DVD is one of the loveliest things I've seen. She danced Aurora in the 1968 production if I recall correctly ... Edited March 12, 2017 by alison Corrected spelling as requested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 I meant to ask you James whether you especially recommend the Previn SB CD which you mentioned? I have had the music on the brain for 3 weeks now. On Saturday I went to the live screening of the Met Traviata- a really really good production I thought that gave new life to it - marvellous performances, Sonya Yoncheva's voice ringing in my head. But next morning I woke up, and the first thing in my head was...Sleeping Beauty! It seems indestructible ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coated Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 On Saturday I went to the live screening of the Met Traviata- a really really good production I thought that gave new life to it - marvellous performances, Sonya Yoncheva's voice ringing in my head. But next morning I woke up, and the first thing in my head was...Sleeping Beauty! It seems indestructible ... I've seen Strauss' Arabella and Le Sacre to no effect of shifting the ear worm. Even fighting fire with fire by adding more Tchaikovsky into the mix with a concert performance of Undine and Swan Lake didn't help. I now have hope that the Tristan I saw today has finally broken the spell since I'm still having bits of Liebestod playing in my head. Fingers crossed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesrhblack Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 I meant to ask you James whether you especially recommend the Previn SB CD which you mentioned? I have had the music on the brain for 3 weeks now. On Saturday I went to the live screening of the Met Traviata- a really really good production I thought that gave new life to it - marvellous performances, Sonya Yoncheva's voice ringing in my head. But next morning I woke up, and the first thing in my head was...Sleeping Beauty! It seems indestructible ... I really enjoyed it. The sound is good, the score complete, the playing vivacious and with the other two ballets in a slim line box at bargain price it has been a most welcome purchase. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesrhblack Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Might a moderator correct the spelling to Lorrayne as opposed to the auto correct version above. Apologies.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Done The CD is very highly thought of, I seem to remember, but it's in storage at the moment so I can't comment first-hand on the performance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Any news/views on the Kobayashi/Bonelli cast last night please? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOSS Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 (edited) I saw the Bonelli and Kobayashi cast last Friday. Bonelli remains an excellent prince and is still adding to the details of his characterisation. Kobayashi was more assured than the last time I saw her in the role, but of course the more you dance a role like Aurora the more command you have over its choreography and the more you can do with it. The most interesting aspect of the performance for me was the cast of the Florestan pas de trois in which Florestan was danced very elegantly by Reece Clarke with Heap and O'Sullivan, replacing Cowley as his sisters. A most satisfying account of the pas de trois. I think that Whitehead is developing into an exceptionally interesting Catalabutte he seems to be far less one note than Marriott in the same role. On Friday Whitehead began his own little revolution by restoring elements of the stage business that Leslie Edwards used perform with the knitting. After Edwards had collected up all of the knitting with all the knitting needles pointing upwards he used to touch the top of the needles to check that they were proscribed items.This made the King's imposition of a death sentence on the knitters seem slightly less arbitrary than it does without it. Gartside as Gallison has brought his own individuality to the role. I have to say that having got this far with the ballet and seeing continued improvement in it at all levels I am rather sad that this run is coming to an end and that it may be a couple of years before we see it again. Edited March 14, 2017 by FLOSS 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwellings Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Kobayashi was as BangorBB has said elsewhere (paraphrasing) very secure in the Rose Adagio, and elsewhere. Lovely phrasing. I have a soft spot for Bonelli. He gave us a traditional variation in the Grand Pas which contrasts with McRae's in my mind. Notable was the ardency and investment he tried to bring to the Princely role. He does those markets of love and ardour so well (mimed sighs, arms outstretched in desperate loneliness, with an expressive mein) a lovely bearing all in all. But I just want to comment how continually impressed as was at Meaghan Grace Hinkis. Her Florine was almost Bluebird rather than princess, inasmuch as it was vital, airy and beautiful. I wrote on Twitter how impressed I was at her attack, precision and poised. The same with her 'twootly Fairy's too. Just fantastic dancing! Add some Avis and McNally too, a bit of Magri in the background to breathe life into it all just by herself: a great night! 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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