THOSE Dance Mums = help!

[annaliesey]

... As for the abusive messages I've been on the receiving end of, for speaking out about safe dance practice in children.... 

 

Please don't stop!!!  

 

We are thankful that people like you are prepared to put up with abuse to get the messages across

[Pas de Quatre]

I have haven't done any festivals or competitions for years, but dd's best friend at day school attended a ballet school that did compete.  A fond family memory is the father of the said friend launching into an impersonation of a group of festival mums - doing all the different parts himself!  I must admit this was over a dinner for the two families and wine had been involved!

[Petalviolet]

Dads bring a lot to the table when it comes to dance, much more than they realise I'd expect and I wish more had the time or felt comfortable enough to be involved. There isn't anything that can't be improved or anyone who doesn't benefit when men and women or mums and dads get together and contribute.

[Petalviolet]

They get their comeuppance thigh drdance & it's satisfying when you hear of it as I did recently.

You tease, Pictures.

 

Perked right up there...can we possibly elaborate....?

[Picturesinthefirelight]

It's not my story to tell & as it involves children & students of other forum members who havnt wished to be identified I can't really say any more I'm afraid.

[Petalviolet]

Thought as much. Ah well...their uppence has come and that is enough.

[Bluebird22]

Does make you think karma exists doesn't it pictures?

[Picturesinthefirelight]

What comes around goes around I always say.

[Vonrothbart]

I can't believe us Grandads haven't had a mention.  I've made a couple of very good friends through my GDD  dance journey, and done a fair bit of travelling to some lovely places too. I've always been of the opinion that it takes all sorts to make a world however annoying some people can be, the best way to treat them is maybe just smile to yourself and move away quietly. I reckon it's mainly the festivals where you can get the rubbish coming out, but in my experience of meeting other parents, almost all of them are fine as we are all in the same boat so to speak.

[Jan McNulty]

https://www.facebook.com/uk.sharedcom/photos/a.168708236518980.45746.130118963711241/1113954051994389/?type=3&theater

 

In view of Dads and comments about buns!

[Katymac]

DH was DD's first dance teacher

He can also do her hair (I can't I'm allergic to the product she uses)

He drove her all over the country to comps until he couldn't any more

He has only missed 2 performances (I've only miss 1 performance but many, many comps)

 

But I do the sewing   (he changes the loo roll )

 

& I think I might be one of those mums.....DD started late, worked very hard, improved very quickly, did well in exams, blew my mind with her progress & made me unbelievably proud which being combined with being a bit mouthy means......umm sorry!

[drdance]

Picturesinthefirelight your inbox is full - clearly lots of people PMing you!

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I appear to have 4 years worth of messages! Deleted a few now

[Picturesinthefirelight]

There is being justifiably proud Katy - & there is bring derogatory to others which I'm sure you've never been.

[annaliesey]

I can't believe us Grandads haven't had a mention.

I can't imagine a grandad being an over the top dance bragger?

 

my dad supports dd's dance and always likes Facebook posts, comes to shows etc but as far as I know he just comes across as encouraging rather than "better than you and yours"

 

Plus grandads are usually sweet aren't they and can get away with it

[Kate_N]

When you have to jog along with a group of strangers with children from all sorts of different schools and backgrounds and deal with the intensity of being judged or scrutinised by panels that are unfamiliar you develop a degree of tact, humility and patience that I don't think is as tested if you stay within the comfy surroundings of your local area or in a protective huddle.

 

 

Petalviolet, I think you've hit the nail on the head. This is so true! Whenever I've seen bragging (in dance or theatre), it's been from a position of  ignorance about the wider arts world. Once you're in that serious creative world, when it's the work that matters, not the individual ego decorations, then what grade your prodigy DD achieved at that stupendously young age (or whatever) means nothing.

 

That's why I always say to my students (and here <grin> ) that they need to get out more & see lots of dance, lots of theatre, lots of visual art, to educate themselves in the work of serious art.

 

I think maybe for the suburban bragging parents (I used to do Pony Club & it was the fathers who were the braggers there!) finding a child with a talent for dance is a new experience of art & theatre, and they see it as another set of grades, exams and certificate challenges to measure their child's "exceptional" abilities. But in the end, any performing artist has to learn that it's not actually about them, it's about the work. Of which they are a part.

 

I was delighted as I was walking home the other night, to hear a group of my final year students (they graduate with their degrees in July) chattering about their final performance projects in a way that showed how they now realised the importance of setting self & ego aside to create a good piece of work as a group. This is what we're all working towards - the highest level of self-development in individuals, with part of that self-development being a realisation of what they can bring to collective creation.

 

Great thread- and here's a way of dealing with difficult situations from Will and Grace: do you remember the "mother armour" scene?- just replace the word "mother" with "bragging dance mum/dad armour"

[Billyelliott]

I can't believe us Grandads haven't had a mention. I've made a couple of very good friends through my GDD dance journey, and done a fair bit of travelling to some lovely places too. I've always been of the opinion that it takes all sorts to make a world however annoying some people can be, the best way to treat them is maybe just smile to yourself and move away quietly. I reckon it's mainly the festivals where you can get the rubbish coming out, but in my experience of meeting other parents, almost all of them are fine as we are all in the same boat so to speak.

I was just about to say that I die every time Grandad comes with us to watch as he constantly boasts about his grandsons dancing and repeats the same old comments made by the adjudicator 5 years ago !! (Loudly because he is so deaf)

I spend the whole time reminding him not to make negative comments about the loud (non classical ) music and other students skills or lack there of !!! He is oblivious to the fact that his loud whispers can be overheard and could cause offence .....

[straceydor]

err yeah to the mean/competitive comment!  I've had my fair share of that but less said about that the better (as I am being watched, even under my pseudonym on here! *laughs hysterically*

 

I agree with this.  You are only being paranoid if its not true.

[Vonrothbart]

I was just about to say that I die every time Grandad comes with us to watch as he constantly boasts about his grandsons dancing and repeats the same old comments made by the adjudicator 5 years ago !! (Loudly because he is so deaf)

I spend the whole time reminding him not to make negative comments about the loud (non classical ) music and other students skills or lack there of !!! He is oblivious to the fact that his loud whispers can be overheard and could cause offence .....

Well luckily I'm a very fit GD and not deaf, and I can honestly say I just love it when a young dancer who never usually places at festivals, pulls one out of the hat and frames. It's the look on their faces that does it for me. I'm not one for whooping and screaming, American style, (sorry USA) but I suppose it's each to their own.

[Jazzpaws]

What about Grandmothers lol

I can remember becoming very fiery and shocked when I first watched my grandson play wheelchair basketball - it's very noisy and lots of banging of chairs ! My daughter silenced me (as they do) saying that it's what the game is like, which it is and he is just the same.

Would love to be a dancing Grandmother, but she loves football too much, for now ......

This forum is invaluable as a means of support, a rant, sharing news and learning lots of tips.

To be honest if peoples comments/news sharing/giving support irritated me then I just wouldn't go on here.

[annaliesey]

Petalviolet, I think you've hit the nail on the head. This is so true! Whenever I've seen bragging (in dance or theatre), it's been from a position of  ignorance about the wider arts world. Once you're in that serious creative world, when it's the work that matters, not the individual ego decorations, then what grade your prodigy DD achieved at that stupendously young age (or whatever) means nothing.

 

That's why I always say to my students (and here <grin> ) that they need to get out more & see lots of dance, lots of theatre, lots of visual art, to educate themselves in the work of serious art.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head too PV. 

 

But Kate_N, not all teachers are like you ... some seem to have a bit of a cocoon thing going on and even if they don't the parents don't see the benefit of getting out a bit more and widening horizons. That's why the thread for "where does it all lead" was so invaluable for me to appreciate it's all to have a career and sense of enjoyment and other transferrable life skills. 

 

I just get a bit gobsmacked sometimes at how arrogant and condescending some people can be in terms of talking up achievements and putting others down in the same breath. 

 

I heard a saying the other day ... "Blowing another person's candle out doesn't make yours shine any brighter" and I smiled at that

Edited March 24, 2016 by annaliesey

[rowan]

 But in the end, any performing artist has to learn that it's not actually about them, it's about the work. Of which they are a part.

 

 

 

Fab, Kate_N!

[Pups_mum]

Spot on annaliesey. I actually have no issue with parents being proud of their offspring and their achievements. It's the dismissiveness of others that changes someone from being a regular "proud mum" to one of "those" mums I think.

[suzysue]

 

I can't imagine a grandad being an over the top dance bragger?

 

Hmm, well I think we've been lucky enough to avoid *these dance mums* despite years of festivals. Generally they are friendly and children and parents are supportive (not so much at All England regional finals). However I own up to my dad being a *dance grandad*! Tutting about whether the adjudicator was actually watching / was wearing their glasses/knows anything about dance at all, worse is the song and dance section...

[Katymac]

Thanks Pictures - I hope so

[Cara in NZ]

We are just back from a 4-day competition, 4 hours' drive away, and I'm chuckling as I read this. It's the same in NZ – why would mothers criticise dancing happening on stage without considering that the dancer's mother/family are probably sitting within earshot? I hate any talking during dancing, but at this competition a family in the front row were taking photos of each other during a dance, and then the dad got up from the middle of the row DURING A DANCE and ambled along the row and out of the theatre. And my DD had a dance put into the wrong category, so I got it moved but she was at the end and not listed on the programme – so before her dance everyone thought the class had finished and there was a mass exodus as she was about to come onstage. My poor DD!

[Pups_mum]

Oh your poor DD Cara - hope it didn't put her off too much. At  every festival I have been to in the UK, the announcer says "and that completes the section" after announcing the last dancer, so if you don't hear that phrase after the last dancer in the programme is announced, you know there has been an addition. Plus you would think that most people who had sat through a section would want to hear the adjudication anyway....I think it's rather impolite of people to wander off en masse before then. Hope your DD enjoyed herself and danced well anyhow.

[annaliesey]

We are just back from a 4-day competition, 4 hours' drive away, and I'm chuckling as I read this. It's the same in NZ – why would mothers criticise dancing happening on stage without considering that the dancer's mother/family are probably sitting within earshot? I hate any talking during dancing, but at this competition a family in the front row were taking photos of each other during a dance, and then the dad got up from the middle of the row DURING A DANCE and ambled along the row and out of the theatre. And my DD had a dance put into the wrong category, so I got it moved but she was at the end and not listed on the programme – so before her dance everyone thought the class had finished and there was a mass exodus as she was about to come onstage. My poor DD!

 

Comments within earshot and photo taking during dance really bad sport! Do people really think that dancer's don't notice someone get up halfway through a dance and amble off?  I had that once where I was sat watching someone that was nothing to do with our dance school but it was really enjoyable performance and then this mum who was tall and wide with huge hair stopped in front on me having already shuffled part way along the aisle in front of me and stopped to chat to another mum about 4 seats from the end. She was only slightly bent over, back to the stage, face to me and when I quietly whispered could you please move or sit down she tutted and gave me a scowl and stomped off like she was not the one in the wrong!

 

Oh and what about the people who prop themselves up on their seats so they are higher than anyone else and take videos with their ipads which completely blocks your view?

[Cara in NZ]

Oh your poor DD Cara - hope it didn't put her off too much. At  every festival I have been to in the UK, the announcer says "and that completes the section" after announcing the last dancer, so if you don't hear that phrase after the last dancer in the programme is announced, you know there has been an addition. Plus you would think that most people who had sat through a section would want to hear the adjudication anyway....I think it's rather impolite of people to wander off en masse before then. Hope your DD enjoyed herself and danced well anyhow.

Interesting reading the comments by both Pups_mum and annaliesey – we don't have announcements, just the class and competitor number displayed on a screen beside the stage, so no-one knew there was an extra. And the results are only announced after two or more classes have danced, depending on class size, so you never quite know when results are coming. They are mostly run by volunteer mothers, it seems, who work so hard but there are always glitches. DD is used to dancing to small audiences at competitions – had her first experience of music stopping in the middle of her contemporary, but kept dancing to the end. The theatre went dead silent and she got extra enthusiastic applause at the end. So now she knows how to cope with music AND programme malfunctions!

[annaliesey]

Ahhhh I would have clapped extra loud for her too

[annaliesey]

Had to come back to this thread to update ...

 

DD has done a few classes, short courses etc this week. Places such as Pineapple, and a London audition. Two of my best dance mum friends have pointed out to me that I am indeed a magnet for dance Mums!

 

I don't know what it is about me but I've definitely attracted a lot of dance mum comments.

 

I promise you I don't look like a dancer, and I don't think there's anything about my appearance that says I'm an easy target etc

 

I've now resorted to pretending I've had a text message come through that I have to go outside and make a phone call or needing to find the ladies loo.

 

This weeks comments ...

 

"I see your daughter wears grishko, my daughters teacher said they weren't strong enough for her advanced ankles"

 

"Oh my daughters not doing this class as she's doing a more advanced one later"

 

"My daughter is used to picking up advanced choreo. Yours is giving it a good go though" *patronising smile"

 

Great

[Lema]

Oh my goodness who are these people?!? Are they complete strangers or do you know them??

[irishballetmom]

I am certainly proud of my daughter but I hope I have never been that mom (I probably have on occasion!) but she has gotten more nos than yeses so that keeps you grounded. If they love it though, you let them keep trying up to a point. She is still young and we won't look at vocational school till 16 again.   This ballet world is so fickle, amazing these moms have such confidence that their kids are such prodigies. There are definitely more doors closed than open in this world, so I think the best approach is keep quiet and just provide every opportunity you can help your kids within logistical and budget constraints. I am probably a glass half empty sort when it comes to the ballet world, and whatever comes, I hope she takes it and enjoys it!