BMC Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Reading the Woolf Works thread, there were a couple of comments about ballets people just 'don't get' - it made me wonder what other bugbears might be out there. My own particular one is Firebird - yes I know the music and sets are wonderful but its masterpiece status totally eludes me. Once we've been dazzled by the Firebird at the beginning she seems to disappear for what seems like ages while we have to endure all that girlie apple throwing and other monotonous (to me at least) goings-on. I've tried over many years, many performances and various ballet companies but have failed ever to enjoy it. And sacrilegious as it is to say it, and like everyone else I am looking forward to the various upcoming Sleeping Beauty debuts, I could quite happily never see another Puss in Boots or Red Riding Hood again (and to be totally honest that goes for the Bluebirds too). Any others that drive people up the wall? 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Great topic BMC! I like Firebird in it's shortened version without the huge cast of mythical characters that parade on at the end. That is absolutely sleep-worthy to me! I agree re Red Riding Hood and Puss-in-Boots. In R&J I loathe the section of music I think is entitled "Dance of the girls with the lilies" which is usually used when Juliet's friends enter her bedroom to find her "dead in bed". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josephine Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Marguerite and Armand. It always seems way too overblown and melodramatic for me. Not helped by hilarious wigs for the gents and more frock changes than I've ever seen in any other one act ballet! I have given it several chances but to no effect as yet! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Although I have a ticket for the current production of Sleeping Beauty, the only reason I am going is to see Hayward and Campbell together. I agree about Red Riding Hood and so on, although I do like the Bluebirds. And although I appreciate that the Nutcracker is a wonderful Christmas ballet, I think Act 1 gets very tedious. Others I don't get: Balanchine's Apollo. I just find it dull. And the same goes for a lot of his other ballets where the dances are wearing leotards and there is not much scenery. Very worthy, I am sure, but I find my attention wondering. Les Sylphides: Lots of arm waving and floating, which goes on and on. Last time the RB put it on, I felt a sense of relief when it finished. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Pigeons Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) My vote was going to be for Apollo too. I have seen some great artists in the work, including Acosta, Bussell and Guillem at various times but I have still never understood why it is so highly rated. I do find The Firebird a bit long but I disagree with Janet about the end. For me the finale has some of the best music ever written for ballet. I find The Sleeping Beauty a bit of a yawn in places and miss the days when we occasionally saw Aurora's Wedding. All the best bits in about 40 minutes. Romeo and Juliet can be a stretch too, especially the Bolshoi version with that interminable last act. Edited February 11, 2017 by Two Pigeons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Balanchine's Apollo. I just find it dull. And the same goes for a lot of his other ballets where the dances are wearing leotards and there is not much scenery. Very worthy, I am sure, but I find my attention wondering. Oh dear, full of typos I can't correct! That should clearly be "I find my attention wandering....." I wonder sometimes where my attention wanders to. :dunce: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 My vote was going to be for Apollo too. I have seen some great artists in the work, including Acosta, Bussell and Guillem at various times but I have still never understood why it is so highly rated. I do find The Firebird a bit long but I disagree with Janet about the end. For me the finale has some of the best music ever written for ballet. I find The Sleeping Beauty a bit of a yawn in places and miss the days when we occasionally saw Aurora's Wedding. All the best bits in about 40 minutes. Romeo and Juliet can be a stretch too, especially the Bolshoi version with that interminable last act. Just as well we are not all the same. I love Apollo! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneMarriott Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 The Dance of the Cygnets in Swan Lake - completely kills the mood and I find myself longing to borrow the crossbow. Agree about Marguerite and Armand being overblown - and Marguerite's flying-ringlet wig doesn't help, either. Ondine. All of it, but especially the hand-jive living fountain section. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SusanR Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I can't stand the dance of the cygnets either! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Mayerling. I've only seen the dvd but it bored me rigid. Didn't engage with any of the characters, didn't find the choreography exciting and Ed Watson wore exactly the same furrowed-browed expression of anguish throughout. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Ondine. All of it, but especially the hand-jive living fountain section. I shall never be able to look at that scene in the same way now, Anne! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninamargaret Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Heresy I know, but I'm not at all keen on Swan Lake, and the best dance of the cygnets must surely have been in a Morecambe and Wise film. Think there are more ballets I would love to see again, rather than those I dislike. Loved Two Pigeons, although I think it appealed more when it was first produced, Could be I'm just older and more cynical! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colman Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Jewels. Seen a couple of recordings, don't get it. Going to try it live in April, to see if that helps. Second half Sleeping Beauty, except the cats and the bluebirds. Romeo and Juliet drives me nuts, the people in the plot are so stupid I can't concentrate on the dance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Q Fan Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Oh yes I am not a fan of R&J either very dark and dreary whichever version, can't say I'm keen on the Prokofiev music either and I do wish someone else had written the music for Cinderella because I hate most of that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmhopton Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Glad I can at last 'come out' and say Swan Lake doesn't do much for me at all and yes I too always think of Morecambe and Wise in the dance of the cygnets. It's either that or closing my eyes and having a bit of a snooze. I find Macmillan's obsession with prostitutes rather tiresome, especially in Mayerling and I would like to borrow Rudolph's gun and shoot the opera singer whom I find incredibly noisy and tedious. Also the 4 officers get rather wearing after their first few appearances. Jewels too never did much for me. Having said that I've never seen the Royal production so I have booked for one and perhaps I can be converted. I saw a Kirov production where there were a lot of secondary school children in the theatre and I thought they would be noisy but they were enthralled by it; the boys riding up and down the escalators in the interval and the girls trying to get en pointe in their clumpy school shoes. they nearly raised the roof at the end with clapping and cheering and made the whole Jewels experience almost worth while. Having said that I really do dislike both Apollo and Prodigal Son and find Balachine generally rather over-rated. I too rather dislike a lot of the last act of Sleeping Beauty, especially the fairy tale characters that are presumably supposed to be cute but to me just seem very tiresome. the worst production I saw was I think the Kirov. it was one of their 'recreations' and seemed to go on for ever and with even more fairy tale characters. I also don't like the Lilac fairy in a non dance role. Coppelia too, though I love the first act I find it gets increasingly tedious after this, especially the second act where Coppelius is trying to bring the doll to life by transferring Franz's 'life' to her. Another place for a snooze. the last act doesn't do much for me either though I can never work out why as it's quite pleasant. I think I might still be irritated by the second act! The Royal ballet Bayadere I always associate with having arguments with my husband as to whether or not to leave before the last act. It was quite a while ago when Darcy was dancing with Igor Zelensky whom we really liked. I got some more expensive tickets than usual but as we were going back to Cheltenham afterwards which took 2-3 hours my husband wanted to leave early, especially as we'd left the dog. He didn't like the last act and maintained the only dancing worth watching was the Bronze Idol and why should we sit through a 30 minute interval just for 5 minutes of Bronze Idol! We eventually compromised by staying for the expensive seat performance but leaving early when we were in the amphi. It was before the reorganisation of the amphi where you went down the stone steps and couldn't get back in again. I have to say there were quite a few leaving so we weren't the only ones not to think much of the last act. Apart from these little glitches I do enjoy most of what I see, honest!!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneMarriott Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I can't stand the dance of the cygnets either! I think we're in a tiny minority... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneMarriott Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I shall never be able to look at that scene in the same way now, Anne! Oh dear - I hope I haven't ruined it for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Reading the Woolf Works thread, there were a couple of comments about ballets people just 'don't get' - it made me wonder what other bugbears might be out there. My own particular one is Firebird - yes I know the music and sets are wonderful but its masterpiece status totally eludes me. Once we've been dazzled by the Firebird at the beginning she seems to disappear for what seems like ages while we have to endure all that girlie apple throwing and other monotonous (to me at least) goings-on. I've tried over many years, many performances and various ballet companies but have failed ever to enjoy it. And sacrilegious as it is to say it, and like everyone else I am looking forward to the various upcoming Sleeping Beauty debuts, I could quite happily never see another Puss in Boots or Red Riding Hood again (and to be totally honest that goes for the Bluebirds too). I do actually like 'bluebirds' when done well, but know what you mean. Agree with the rest though! I have far too comprehensive a list of pet ballet dislikes - topmost would be most of Tetley's 'stuff', the psychobabble of much of MacMillan, the insufferable twee of a lot of Ashton (though uppermost would be the sisters ruining Cinderella), the purposeful striding rather than dancing between poses by the Russians, electonica bleeps and noises rather than music in much contemporary dance, and of course, gloomfest lighting! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 The Dance of the Cygnets in Swan Lake - completely kills the mood and I find myself longing to borrow the crossbow. Agree about Marguerite and Armand being overblown - and Marguerite's flying-ringlet wig doesn't help, either. Ondine. All of it, but especially the hand-jive living fountain section. Cygnets - yes, so much of it is forcing them to do such ungainly, ugly steps. I'll slightly defend Ondine when Ondine on stage. I'd dump the rest in a heartbeat though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Balanchine's Apollo. I just find it dull. And the same goes for a lot of his other ballets where the dances are wearing leotards and there is not much scenery. Very worthy, I am sure, but I find my attention wondering. I love Apollo - it just seeps into your soul - and just has so many iconic moments. But then I do love Balanchine for the reasons you don't seem to (which is fine, we all like/dislike different things in the rich tapestry of life :-) ) - I love the clarity of the pure dance and no distractions. And no histrionics, beautifully lit, gorgeous steps. Bliss! :-) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I love Apollo - it just seeps into your soul - and just has so many iconic moments. But then I do love Balanchine for the reasons you don't seem to (which is fine, we all like/dislike different things in the rich tapestry of life :-) ) - I love the clarity of the pure dance and no distractions. And no histrionics, beautifully lit, gorgeous steps. Bliss! :-) Yes, well, obviously this Balanchine chap must have something. I just don't get it! Most people seem to think Woolf Works is superb. I must be one of the minority who wasn't "blown away" by it. Of course, a lot of these likes and dislikes may come down to the old, old subject of the ballets not being performed in the way the creators originally intended. Did Ashton really mean the Ugly Sisters to be performed in such a pantomime style? Are the fairy variations in SB a bit dull because modern interpretations smooth out the individual characteristics of each fairy into a smooth, bland, style. Do the Brits do Balanchine justice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Yes, well, obviously this Balanchine chap must have something. I just don't get it! Most people seem to think Woolf Works is superb. I must be one of the minority who wasn't "blown away" by it. Of course, a lot of these likes and dislikes may come down to the old, old subject of the ballets not being performed in the way the creators originally intended. Did Ashton really mean the Ugly Sisters to be performed in such a pantomime style? Are the fairy variations in SB a bit dull because modern interpretations smooth out the individual characteristics of each fairy into a smooth, bland, style. Do the Brits do Balanchine justice? Yes, I think they do - and the Balanchine trust (and Pat Neary in particular!) are there at the moment to make sure they do, and then some. As for fairy variations - not seen the old, old versions, so can't comment. Lilacs variation is another I'd brand as quite ugly though, and makes me wince every time I see it. And as a last thought - yes, Woolf Works is great! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I *love* Apollo - when it's danced by a cast who understand it and can put it over properly. At other performances, I'll admit to having found it rather boring at times 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) . As for fairy variations - not seen the old, old versions, so can't comment. Lilacs variation is another I'd brand as quite ugly though, and makes me wince every time I see it. Ah yes, the poor old lilac fairy. Personally, I have never seen anyone at the RB excel at that. However, your comments made me go rushing off to Youtube. I've been itching to put up some of these clips, especially with masses of performances of SB coming up over the next few weeks. The first one is from Sadlers Wells 1955. Not the best of recordings. The Lilac Fairy is about the 5 minute mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggc-OBKRwsk Compare and contrast with some later ones. You don't have to sit through them all to get the general idea of why some of the modern day performers may struggle. Edited to add I wish I could find one of a modern RB performance, but I can't seem to. I assume the RB doesn't dance it any quicker? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNHOq2fLSks# Edited February 12, 2017 by Fonty 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomin Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I thought the French one, Mary Agnes (can't remember surname!) was lovely 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacqueline Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I *love* Apollo - when it's danced by a cast who understand it and can put it over properly. At other performances, I'll admit to having found it rather boring at times Good point. A work can seem completely different if danced by a cast that understands and can put it over properly, against one that just does the steps, as if to say this is a classic so speaks for itself. Then again, you can have the best dancers struggling with the dullest choreography, so it works both ways. Swan Lake can be breathtaking or deadly dull, depending on who does it. The cygnets don't bother me as much as the endless national dances. Sleeping Beauty, for me, is always too long, but done badly or without care, it is unbearably tedious. Sylvia I found tiresome and silly. I don't get Jewels at all, I find it terribly boring. I liked parts of Winter's Tale, but I find much of Wheeldon's choreography repetitive and empty. His works make me think of candy floss. In my opinion, they look quite pretty but they have little or no substance. Apart from avoiding audience behaviour, I have become a bit spoiled by sitting in comfort at home watching dvds and being able to fast forward what I consider to be the boring bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I thought the French one, Mary Agnes (can't remember surname!) was lovely I am not denying that there is some lovely dancing in the second clip. But it was shock to me when I heard the music. It is supposed to be a waltz, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 That's a wonderful thread. Thank you, BMC, for starting it. Time for me to admit that I really struggle with Ashton's narrative ballets as I find them too sweet for my taste (whereas I do like Monotones, and also Voices of Spring and Symphonic Variations). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMC Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 Thanks for all your fascinating replies - you've encouraged me to be more honest now and own up to the fact that I can't stand the mad scene in Giselle. Obviously it's pivotal, and the whole of the second act would rank as one of my 'desert island ballets' but, and this applies to whoever is dancing, my reaction is either: for goodness sake have a cup of tea and a chocolate digestive, you'll soon feel better - or, get on with it so we can move onto the second act ASAP. I feel the same about Ophelia too... Just in case you think I have no heart I am invariably in tears at the end of Giselle! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minxette Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Thanks for all your fascinating replies - you've encouraged me to be more honest now and own up to the fact that I can't stand the mad scene in Giselle. Obviously it's pivotal, and the whole of the second act would rank as one of my 'desert island ballets' but, and this applies to whoever is dancing, my reaction is either: for goodness sake have a cup of tea and a chocolate digestive, you'll soon feel better - or, get on with it so we can move onto the second act ASAP. I feel the same about Ophelia too... Just in case you think I have no heart I am invariably in tears at the end of Giselle! LOL! Agree it's a tad melodramatic but not everyone can handle rejection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Q Fan Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I agree about Marie Agnes Gillot in that clip just gorgeous so precise and yet effortless- I recall the time I waited at stage door for her in Paris - she had a huge entourage complete with her 2 beautiful little lap dogs being carried for her. She was lovely! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trog Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Several people have mentioned the Sleeping Beauty. I think the ballet improves vastly once the story is out of the way and we're into the divertissements. If I never had to sit through yet another Rose Adagio, I would be very happy.MacMillans Romeo & Juliet is another boring one, athough with some trimming it could be passable. I do wish Mercutio would just cark it, rather than rolling around on the floor for 10 minutes. The interminable balcony pdd needs a serious snip. There is a point about 5 mintues in, where Juliet starts to leave. I think she should keep right on going, rather than turning around and come back.I find the entire Ashton catalog quite dire but a pet hate is La Fille Mal Gardee. Do we really need Widow Twankey? I've never understood why the cats cradle always gets thunderous applause; I've use to play cat's cradle when I was a lad, and there is no mystery to the game. Sadly I've forgotten a lot but I can still cast 10 figures. The only bit of the ballet that I like is the chickens.A couple of modern works the BRB do, that should be consigned to the bin. Tharp's In The Upper Room (silly running about in pjs) and Bintley's Higher, Faster, Stronger (more silly running about). PS. Sorry Janet 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Several people have mentioned the Sleeping Beauty. I think the ballet improves vastly once the story is out of the way and we're into the divertissements. If I never had to sit through yet another Rose Adagio, I would be very happy. I could happily skip the divertissements - apart from the grand pas! In fact, I am about to submit to several RB Sleeping Beauties simply because I am interested in the artists involved. I remember years ago hearing Kenneth MacMillan confess, when he was the RB Director, that he couldn't 'take' any more of sitting through SB performances.. I was shocked then. I'm pretty much with him all the way now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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