Tony Newcombe Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Nathalie Harrison was the dancer who mentioned this in the video clip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) I believe that suicide was regarded as a mortal sin by the Catholic Church and a sin by most other Churches. It certainly is. But we seem to have come round in a full circle from a post I made originally i.e. that orignal productions always allowed a variety of interpretations for her death. And the setting for the grave could be interpreted accordingly, which is why the surroundings are a bit vague. I am certain that some Giselles from my childhood went down the "death by heart attack brought on by shock" route. I think it is a pity that current thinking makes the suicide issue compulsory. Quite apart from that, if someone dies by their own hand while they have clearly lost their mind and have no idea where they are or what they are doing, could they actually be deemed a suicide? Could it not be construed as death by misadventure? One for the lawyers perhaps? Edited January 30, 2014 by Fonty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Last night I took a look at Alicia Markova’s book ‘Giselle and I’, to see if I could reference my edge of a graveyard claim, but unfortunately most of the second act pictures were of her stage centre. There was one remarkable design feature that you rarely see nowadays though and that was a grave marked by a truly massive cross with steps leading up to it. This served a dual purpose of allowing better access for Giselle to emerge from her grave and provided a better backdrop for Albrecht to collapse exhausted onto the steps. The picture I saw was of an early production by Festival Ballet (ENB). In the past I have read critical arguments as to whether she should have an impressive monument paid for by Albrecht (unlikely) or a rough hewn cross made by Hilarion; today most productions favour the latter. It all depends on whether you think it likely that Giselle committed suicide with the sword or whether her weak heart gave out. What with her clutching her chest after dancing I imagine it was that which killed her, so the lonely suicide’s grave would not be necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Well going back to an earlier post "the vengeful Wilis " are to me why the ballet is in the "Romantic" framework! More modern girls would surely get a grip transform their anger into energy for finding another more suitable bloke and still have their kids.....that is if they want kids....no need THESE days if you don't want them!! However having said this one of the reasons I haven't had children is wasting time pursuing the wrong men!! So not SO far removed from poor old Giselle. Whatever it's still one of my favourite ballets!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 There is a clip on Youtube of Fonteyn and Nureyev in 1962 which also shows a massive cross. No steps, though. And I have just spent a pleasant 11 minutes looking at Margot's wonderful arms again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane S Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Apparently Bonelli rather than Kish is dancing Albrecht to Laura Morera's first Giselle this afternoon (announced on the ROH site - ooh - several minutes before curtain up) - I;m really looking forward to hearing how Morera gets on so please comment if you are/were there! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 It was mentioned earlier that the Wilis are sinister. Well, how sinister are they? They inhabit a particular territory - the forest - they did not go into villlages or homes. And, they appeared only at night. And, only threatened men who wandered into the forest at night - which isn't a good idea anyway. And, they are a sisterhood of victims in the first instance. Stay out of the forest at night if you are male- and you will be ok. As for suicide being a mortal sin.......is it necessary for the act to be completed or is intent enough to banish her to a lonely grave? One wonders if as time goes on, if Giselle becomes more distant from her human side and eventually becomes more wili-ish. Well, there's the fodder for a third act - Albrecht comes back to visit her grave ten years later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Stay out of the forest at night if you are male- and you will be ok. And don't be a dirty, rotten, two timing scoundrel. Actually, if you were a nice man walking through the woods at night with your wife, to whom you have been a devoted and faithful husband for the last 50 years, would the Wilis still attack you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 And don't be a dirty, rotten, two timing scoundrel. Actually, if you were a nice man walking through the woods at night with your wife, to whom you have been a devoted and faithful husband for the last 50 years, would the Wilis still attack you? Well, truth be told (as it were) Hilarion was not a rotten two timing scoundrel. However, he does look a bit dirty. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Well they attacked Hilarion poor bloke. He hadn't done any girl down as far as we know!! No dirty rotten scoundrels should be in for it too unless they have a nice girls love to save them!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Well, truth be told (as it were) Hilarion was not a rotten two timing scoundrel. However, he does look a bit dirty. Ah, but he was out alone, wasn't he? Would it have been different if he had been with his mother? Poor old Hilarion, I do feel a bit sorry for him. Girls never seem to fall for the nice guy, do they? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Sorry Anjuli didn't see your post!! Well they didn't have very good plumbing in those days!! Look what happens when we go camping!! we try our best but...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Yes Fonty this can be true.....any young people here......don't take twenty years....well nearly.....15 then....to find out that its the nice boys you want deep down!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Once upon a time Hilarion was danced either as rough and uncouth or played as much older than Giselle - a better suitor for her mother in fact. I don't believe in attractive Hilarions as they confuse the audience. Who remembers Gediminas Taranda (swoon) in the role? Mind you in turning him down there was no question about it: Giselle was certifiably nuts! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I'm beginning to feel rather jealous of all these people who saw this Gediminas Taranda fellow!! Was he Russian then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Can I just say that I can't remember the last time I enjoyed a discussion about Giselle so much? Here we are, 8 pages in, and not only is there in depth analysis of various performances, but we are also talking about Hilarion's plumbing arrangements! Edited January 30, 2014 by Fonty 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Sort of, Lithuanian father, Cossack mother. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Gediminas Taranda (well, worth swooning over) is also married and a father. (swoon in vain) On to more important things.... Giselle - Act III One month later.... Albrecht has discovered that Bathilde is preggers and since he was dilly-dallying in the village with Giselle and Bathilde was out hunting (apparently not after 4 legged game) the babe is not his. He now has an even more deeply felt bond with the dearly departed Giselle and needs to visit her grave again. Meanwhile, Hilarion - who, like a wili, has died with a heart filled with unrequited love, has met the souls of all the other male victims of the wilies. Hilarion organizes them into a male counterpart club - the woolies. But, men being the logical pragmatic beings we all agree they are, decide they would rather commit woo not war with the wilies. Enter Albrecht into the forest - the woolies convince him to join them (making him an offer he couldn't refuse). He is thus united with Giselle (she long before having forgiven him - remember?). Hilarion marries Myrtha (she's been alone a long time). So, too, all the wilies marry the woolies and everyone lives happily ever after in the hereafter. And all those empty armed wilies now are mothers to wispy babes. And thus the gender specific bullying in the night forest has a positive resolution and no further intervention is necessary by the PC authorities for equal outcomes 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Oooo ! I like it Anjuli ! What sort of costume do you envisage for the woolies ?! x 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMballet Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Anjuli wins the prize. This would seriously be the best ballet ever. And no more or less illogical/believable than all the others (what happened to that funny thread where everyone was giving one line synopses of ballets? I was scratching my head trying to work out which was which. It was the best thread ever! Lin, as a "young person" here (below 25), I must confess that I find nice guys, even the good looking ones, SOOOOOOOOO boring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane S Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Morera, anyone? Please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_New Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 As no-one else has posted I'll write something. I'm no expert, so this is just my personal reaction, but I really enjoyed her performance this afternoon. She was very engaging, very natural and totally believable. It was an understated and thoughtful performance that moved me far more than some other more 'mannered' or 'frenzied' interpretations. For me it was a triumph and I'm looking forward to her second performance very much. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane S Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Thank you! - just what I was hoping to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hfbrew Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 So was I! Im going on 10th Feb! Have booked to see her especially. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Hi, this is my first post and I know nothing about ballet but go frequently and love it. I just wanted to reply to this topic as I also saw the matinee of Giselle on the 30th. I thought Laura Morera was very affecting and I had a very good view as I was sitting in A10 SCS. Her acting of the role was excellent and she definitely gave it her all. I thought Bennet Gartside danced the role of Hilarion to great dramatic effect also. I have to say particularly though, how well Kristen McNally played her part, she really made me smile. I thought she was absolutely brilliant. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Hello, Katie, and welcome to the forum (and thanks for having the courage to post - many don't). You say you know nothing about ballet, but if you go frequently I'm sure you're at least absorbing something by osmosis And thank you for your comments about Bennet Gartside: I'd been meaning to post about how good I thought his Hilarion was, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Yes, I have also heard wonderful things about Laura's debut, and I think she was very lucky to have such an experienced and generous partner as Bonelli as her first Albrecht. I too am very much looking forward to February 10th. I just cannot understand why it has taken soooo long for her to be given this opportunity to shine like the jewel that she is. I can only hope that next time R&J comes around she will finally be given a crack at Juliet, too. She is my favourite Manon and she is an excellent MacMillan interpreter IMHO. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Oh, and while I'm at it....I loved Claudia Dean's Myrthe on Thursday night. She is chilling and totally believable as a spirit who won't rest until all men have perished, preferably by her instigation. She has a lovely ballon and really uses that big stage. A wonderful achievement for a young dancer still in the corps. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTL Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 According to the cast amendement slip I picked up at the end of the 30 January matinée, Tierney Heap, even newer to the Corps (2012), danced Myrthe in place of Hikaru Kobayashi, who danced the lead in the Act 1 Pas de Six in place of Yuhui Choe. There were no amendment slips out when I arrived, so I spent a quite a bit of Act 2 wondering why Miss Kobayashi had sacrificed technique in favour of forcefulness and beefed up her make-up since I last saw her dance it on the 22nd - which is not meant as a criticism of Miss Heap, who IMHO showed great promise and was dramatically very effective. In view of the fact that my last "Giselle" had been an Osipova/Acosta, it says much for Laura Morera and Federico Bonelli that I did not feel short-changed: as others have said, it was indeed a very intelligent and moving interpretation. I have to say that not everyone prefers Act 2 though. At the end, I overheard a lady of, I guess, around 70 say to her companion, leaving their £80-ish seats and pulling on her mini-rucksack, "The second half dragged a bit but it's lovely to see the Opera House for its atmosphere.". I felt a bit like I did at a midweek matinée at the Albert Hall after an ENB Gershwin show where all the beautifully-danced pas de deux got much less applause than the tap-dancers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I have to say that not everyone prefers Act 2 though. At the end, I overheard a lady of, I guess, around 70 say to her companion, leaving their £80-ish seats and pulling on her mini-rucksack, "The second half dragged a bit but it's lovely to see the Opera House for its atmosphere.". Wow. That is a lot to pay for some atmosphere. They could have had even more of it they had paid a quarter of that and sat up in the amphitheatre! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Q Fan Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Lovely performance in the matinee today by Marianela and Thiago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I agree: a lovely, elegant performance from Nunez and Soares-whose long arms and panther like jumps are always a pleasure, -and I thought the corps at today's matinee were absolutely superb. They seem to me better than I have seen them for years. Tight, precise, and especially dramatically very effective, as others have said, in Act 2. What did others think? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) Overall, I think that I preferred today's matinee to the Osipova/Acosta evening performance on 22 January. I found Nunez much more naturalistic in Act 1 and more affecting in Act 2. Soares' acting (and there is a lot of acting to do in Act 1) was excellent and he was more convincing as a nobleman than Acosta. McGorian and Arestis were very good as Berthe and Bathilde respectively. It's so important that these non-dancing roles are done well to give the story life (these roles were also well done at the other performance). Tierney Heap really impressed as a statuesque and imperious Myrthe. I felt that the lighting in Act 2 seemed a bit different today: it wasn't as dark at the beginning and the background wasn't as yellow, but perhaps my eyes deceived me. I'm afraid that I'm not wholly convinced by Soares technically. He seems to lack power and, perhaps, stamina and, with Acosta likely to retire in the next year or two, I suspect that this is why Kevin O'Hare has decided to bring in Golding and Muntagirov who are both powerful and elegant (and tall) classical dancers. Edited February 1, 2014 by aileen 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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