The Royal Ballet, Giselle 2014

[MAB]

I think you will find Giselle's lonely grave is a design feature as earlier productions that I've seen in photos have showed her buried on the edge of a graveyard, crosses take up room however so Giselle’s grave exists apart, we can use our imaginations to see the cemetery that exists behind her.

 

 

 

The romantic era was addicted to its ghosts, Puccini's Le Wili and Meyerbeer's Robert Le Diable favour similar scenarios, but I've been watching and reading stuff like this for decades without it making me a neo Nazi.

 

 

 

The Soviet's liked Giselle because it showed an aristocrat in a bad light?  They liked Cinderella too - a ballet that has the message be a nice person and you get to marry a prince.  Sorry I don't buy any of your argument.

 

[alison]

I now finally understand why so many of the leading ballerinas of the world want to dance with Acosta: he's just so generous, by which I mean he lacks vanity completely: he was content to let his ballerina shine, whereas a lesser dancer might have tried to compete, in some way, for audience attention.

 

That's a very good point, SMB.  (Although I don't think that most of the RB's Albrechts would actually come into the "competing" category).

 

There were also lots of empty seats in Wakefield for the Bolshoi's Spartacus and Jewels.   No cinema in Huddersfield showed those ballets so far as I am aware,.

 

I should be interested to know the composition of the audience at cinemas in other parts of the country.   The audience for Giselle in Huddersfield was predominately female and like me rather elderly.  I did not see any children at all and very few if any persons under 50. That is somewhat surprising as there are a lot of young people at the university  and they do turn out for concerts and other events.

 

The Bolshoi just doesn't sell well, I don't understand why.  (Well, apart from the fact that they put on things like Lost Illusions and Marco Spada which are only ever going to attract keen balletgoers.)  But the RB sessions always sell much better, even allowing for the fact that they tend to play it safe in terms of what is shown (I'm wondering what the turnout for Winter's Tale will be like).  I don't know whether it has anything to do with being the "home team" and/or taxpayers feeling they might as well get some benefit from their taxes, although I do note that various cinema chains are currently being rather lax about producing a "culture" leaflet and so frequently the only publicity available is the ROH's own transmissions leaflet.  Obviously starry castings may also be a selling-point.  I went to see the transmission in a cinema which will also be showing the Bolshoi this coming Sunday: was there any signs of any publicity, or any attempt to interest the public, perhaps by handing out a leaflet along with the cast sheet?  No.

 

As for age breakdown of the audience, in my experience I'd say most were over 50, at least.  There were some younger people there, but they were distinctly in the minority.

[alison]

I think you will find Giselle's lonely grave is a design feature as earlier productions that I've seen in photos have showed her buried on the edge of a graveyard,

 

I don't remember ever seeing any indications of a graveyard in any of the productions I've seen, I must say.

[simonbfisher]

I'm sure that we saw a production of Giselle in the Soviet Union in the early '80s (possibly in Minsk? or Leningrad?) in which the grave was adorned by a hammer and sickle .... Can anyone corroborate that, or is my mind playing tricks?

[alison]

*That's* no good.  The Wilis wouldn't quail at the power of the hammer & sickle .

 

There is a Soviet Giselle production which vaguely comes to mind - I was going to say "Red Giselle", but isn't that something to do with Plisetskaya?

[MAB]

*That's* no good.  The Wilis wouldn't quail at the power of the hammer & sickle .

 

There is a Soviet Giselle production which vaguely comes to mind - I was going to say "Red Giselle", but isn't that something to do with Plisetskaya?

No earlier, Olga Spissetzeva (sp?)

[loveclassics]

The Bolshoi just doesn't sell well, I don't understand why.  (Well, apart from the fact that they put on things like Lost Illusions and Marco Spada which are only ever going to attract keen balletgoers.) 

Veering slightly off-topic, I looked up Marco Spada on the Bolshoi's website.  Judging by the synopsis even a keen balletgoer would have problems with this.  It sounds totally bonkers - does the choreography make up for the daft story?

[patsomerset]

I still can't make the 'quote' button work but I should like to report on the attendances etc at the Taunton Odeon.  They were showing 'Giselle' in two screens last Sunday.  The screens have 422 seats between them and all but the front rows were taken.  By no means all females, but not many people under 50 and I saw only one small boy.  The Odeon is the only cinema in Taunton but there is a privately owned cinema in a town about 6 miles away which was also showing 'Giselle'.  The Odeon always have a good turn out for RB performances but usually only open one screen

 

As for the Bolshoi; we had an insert in our cast sheets which included Bolshoi transmissions, but the attendance is always disappointing, even for quite well known ballets. It might be because they are always on a Sunday afternoon. I really don't know

[LinMM]

Meunier oh wherefore art thou Meunier!! Seriously I always look forward to your reviews and Ive just searched this thread hoping you had been to an earlier performance of this Osipova/Acosta Giselle but maybe you couldn't get to these performances this time?

It's just that you seem to be able to put into words a more intrinsic(cant find the word I want here) reflection of a performance than I'm able to do and would have enjoyed reading your thoughts/feelings on these performances.

[LinMM]

Just to add I love your comment Coated that.... "Osipova's rebirth as a wili redefined art and beauty for me"

Couldn't agree more!

[Jacqueline]

Some of you may have detected that I have very mixed feelings about Giselle. Not just Peter Wright's production but any Giselle. I shall probably be shunned for ever by my ballet going friends and cashiered from BalletcoForum for this blog post which I have modified by removing links to articles in my blog but, if so, too bad:

 

"The performances of Giselle with Carlos Acosta and Natalia Osipova that I saw at Covent Garden on the 18 Jan and in the cinema on the 27 Jan were outstanding and will take their place in my memory alongside magnificent performances that I saw over 40 years ago by Margot Fonteyn and Rudolf Nureyev, Antoinette Sibley and Anthony Dowell and Carla Fracci and Erik Bruhn. However, I always feel uneasy after seeing Giselle - not just this performance but any. I hear my father's reproaches that time once lost can never be recovered,

 

The reason I have a problem with Giselle is the story. It is not that it is a silly story.  Compared to Swan Lake and The Nutcracker it makes perfect sense. An impressionable young girl who has a steady relationship with the village gamekeeper is seduced by a playboy aristocrat in disguise who is already engaged to another woman. She shows him off to her mother and her friends and she is crowned queen of the wine pageant.  The aristocrat's connections visit the village and he is exposed as a philanderer by the gamekeeper.  Betrayed and humiliated the girl loses her reason and goes into a frenzy in which she either dies or kills herself.  So far so good.  The story could have come out of The Archers and I would not be surprised if something like it has not been run at some stage over the last 60 years.

 

But then the plot loses me because Giselle is buried in unconsecrated ground where her spirit joins those of other women who have been seduced and die before their wedding day. They have it in for men and if any man is unfortunate enough to stray across their path as the gamekeeper did they kill him (though having said that I have seen one performance, though I cannot remember which company, where the gamekeeper survives and the curtain falls on his shaking hands with the playboy).  That is a pretty unpleasant as well as fantastic story and offends my sensibilities as a Quaker as well as an aesthete.

 

Interestingly I see from the programme notes that Peter Wright had similar reservations about the story when asked to stage Giselle by Cranko and it is only in the last day or so that I find that he was also brought up as a Quaker. You see the idea of burying in a forest a young woman who has died of a broken heart or even killed herself  appalls us and the idea of hateful and vengeful forest spirits is .... well let's not go there.  All this is of course a product of romanticism which produced great art but it also had a dark side which degenerated into nationalism, racism and, ultimately, fascism.

 

Of course all this was wonderful material for the Soviet authorities.  Look at what used to happen in older superstitious times and count yourselves lucky that you now live in a modern socialist state that has no place for the likes of Albrecht. No wonder Giselle remained in the the repertoires of both the Kirov and Bolshoi and was indeed developed by them.

 

Yet Adam's music is so beautiful and the choreography of the second act is so compelling that I can't keep away from Giselle. I am ashamed to say it but it is my favourite ballet.  And I leave the theatre after a good performance like the one on the 18 Jan damming the waves of tears. How do I sit through it despising myself for harbouring those emotions yet unable to walk away?  The solution - and it is one that partially works for me any may not for anyone else - is to put the story out of my mind.  To absorb the music and dancing as pure abstraction as though they were the work of Balanchine."

I am utterly mystified by the above post, in which a battle seems to be going on between moral sensibility and being able to enjoy something for what it is - a great work of art. I don't think anyone would be particularly thrilled at the prospect of a young woman being buried in a forest due to the nature of her demise. Being cast out is of course a recurring theme in art and literature. Didn't Tess ( of the D'Urbervilles ) have to bury her dead child outside the graveyard due to the nature of its birth? And numerous other examples. These tales are all about superstition and folklore, class snobbery, heartbreak, good people and nasty people, living or not. Human nature in other words.

As a small detail, I am not aware that Giselle is in a steady relationship with Hilarion. He would certainly like her to be and is cultivating her mother to that end, who is keen to pair them off anyway. Giselle seems to dislike Hilarion and is even a little frightened of him.

I am amused by Terpsichore's assertion that the story up to and including Giselle's demise is acceptable. That a young woman should be so horribly humiliated and deceived to the extent that she loses her mind and then her life is apparently 'so far so good'!

It seems to be only her burial in unconsecrated grounds and the vengeful spirits that offend.

I think we are in danger of over analyzing the story, which I always thought was about the power of redemptive love. I do not see how one can separate the story from the music and just enjoy the music and the dancing. The three are integral. But if it works for some, then why not? I am not ashamed to say it is my favourite ballet, I think it is a masterpiece. I enjoy it for what it is. I would not be able to withstand repeated viewings of something that offended my sensibilities.

[bangorballetboy]

I think you will find Giselle's lonely grave is a design feature as earlier productions that I've seen in photos have showed her buried on the edge of a graveyard, crosses take up room however so Giselle’s grave exists apart, we can use our imaginations to see the cemetery that exists behind her.

 

     

 

You may have seen pictures showing that, but in 1841 Giselle's grave is in a forest.

[aileen]

There is no point applying 21st century sensibilities to a ballet like Giselle. It reflects the reality of life in rural European communities in the 18th and 19th centuries. The fact of the matter is that most women had very limited choices in life, that the Church was dogmatic and unyielding in its teachings and that the penalties for breaking moral and religious codes were severe. Sadly, of course, there are still many women in the world who live under similar conditions today. Judith Flanders found it difficult to like Le Corsaire recently because it was a story about slavery.

[Jan McNulty]

You may have seen pictures showing that, but in 1841 Giselle's grave is in a forest.

 

Did you enjoy that performance BBB???     (Sorry, couldn't resist that one).

[Terpsichore]

Thanks for your comments Meunier and Jacqueline.

 

Actually I have a problem with romanticism generally in literature and painting as well as in the performing arts.  Particularly Sturm und Drang.  I find it all dark, menacing and irrational though I concede it has produced great art.

 

I would be happy to discuss romanticism with you and anyone else who is interested though perhaps not in this forum.

 

Giselle has always given me the creeps and has done ever since I first saw it.  So too does some of the work of Shelley, Blake and the pre-Raphaelites.  As I have said twice before I can only take the second act which is artistically the more satisfying bit if I put the story out of my mind though I am conscious that in so doing I may be losing something.

 

I am not asking anyone to agree with me or and I am certainly not selling an argument, merely presenting an analysis and appreciation that others are free to take or leave.

[Anjuli_Bai]

We all bring to the theater who we are which is made up of who we were.

 

And that's why, I think, we return again and again - even if it makes us uncomfortable.

 

When people stand up during Handel's "Hallelujah Chorus" - some stand to salute the message and some stand to salute the music.  For some it is a reminder of hope, for others a reminder of darker times.

 

Whatever it is for you - so be it. 

[Beryl H]

I never see Giselle as dark or creepy, always as a charming Romantic 1840's ballet, although I personally find the music fits the story and dancing beautifully (never understand why its deemed to be inferior) I suppose it's not particularly creepy or menacing, I did see one British touring production, must have been NBT, where the Wilis were more Victorian vampirish, that's the nearest it got.

 

One of the dancers said when the Wilis stand in line with their arms curved at the waist, they are holding the babies they never had, I've never heard that before.  The footage of Natalia Osipova was interesting, she has grown into a very beautiful young woman, nice to hear from Hikaru Kobayashi too, and liked what Christopher Wheeldon said about The Winter's Tale, he sounded very mature and sincere about doing a Shakespeare ballet. How quickly the interval passes when not at the ROH!

[Fonty]

I think you will find Giselle's lonely grave is a design feature as earlier productions that I've seen in photos have showed her buried on the edge of a graveyard, crosses take up room however so Giselle’s grave exists apart, we can use our imaginations to see the cemetery that exists behind her.

 

 

 

I think the discussions about this are going back to a point I was discussing earlier in this thread. I am sure when I was a child there was a backdrop with a suggestion that she was on the edge of a graveyard.  My perception was that Giselle's grave was positioned purely for logistical reasons, to allow the dancing to take place.  After all, it would certainly lessen the impact if the Wilis were having to dance around a load of gravestones. (I've just had this vision of them leaping over them like a lot of ethereal high jumpers)  The fact that there was no proper, fixed cross on her grave just meant that she was newly buried, nothing more.And having a woodland graveyard just adds to the atmosphere. In fact, it always makes me think of Highgate Cemetery. 

 

It was only when I started to read about Giselle on here, that the idea that she was buried in unconsecrated ground was expressed.  But Ghosts and ghoulies never seem to have any problems cavorting through graveyards in gothic tales, as far as I know.  Even Dracula's victims got buried in consecrated ground and still went about their business.   So I can't see it being a problem for Wilis in general, and Myrtha in particular. 

 

Sorry, apologies for attempting to bring logic to the tale of Giselle.  But I don't like the idea of this poor girl being abandoned for ever in a wilderness.  I prefer my own version of the story.  Much more satisfactory to me!

Edited January 29, 2014 by Fonty

[Terpsichore]

We all bring to the theater who we are which is made up of who we were.

....................................

Whatever it is for you - so be it. 

 

And that's the glory of the performing arts. It is a two way process. The audience are as much as a show as the cast. I think that is why some folk refer to live theatre (as opposed to TV or film) as the "legitimate stage".

 

Interesting that you mention The Messiah as I come from Huddersfield which has the famous Choral. I think the oratorio is all about hope.

 

As for why audiences stand for the Hallelujah Chorus I once attended a performance in Yosemite where the chorus master explained that we rise in deference to King George who rose from his seat when he first heard that music. I have always thought that was a delightful story and quite surprising that the tradition survives in the USA if the story is true.

[alison]

I would be happy to discuss romanticism with you and anyone else who is interested though perhaps not in this forum.

 

I love German Romanticism .  (Have you discovered the "Not Dance" forum yet?)

 

 I did see one British touring production, must have been NBT, where the Wilis were more Victorian vampirish, that's the nearest it got.

 

Derek Deane's for ENB?  (If so, you'd remember it - it was set in the 1920s or so and had a car in the first act!)

 

How quickly the interval passes when not at the ROH!

 

It does.  By the time I'd been to the loo and queued for an ice cream, I decided that instead of trying to get on here I'd better get back into the auditorium.  I didn't even manage to get through my ice cream before the second act started, and had to time any scraping with loud points in the music

[Jan McNulty]

I never see Giselle as dark or creepy, always as a charming Romantic 1840's ballet, although I personally find the music fits the story and dancing beautifully (never understand why its deemed to be inferior) I suppose it's not particularly creepy or menacing, I did see one British touring production, must have been NBT, where the Wilis were more Victorian vampirish, that's the nearest it got.

 

 

 

 

Derek Deane's for ENB?  (If so, you'd remember it - it was set in the 1920s or so and had a car in the first act!)

 

 

 

Beryl, I do believe you are referring to the production that Christopher Gable made for NB in around 1988, his first production for NB.  That was the first production I saw where I could believe the Wilis were out for revenge.  It made perfect sense to me.

 

I also find the Cuban Ballet's Wilis are very sinister

[Anjuli_Bai]

The wilies give me the willies, too - will I, nill I.

[toursenlair]

Veering slightly off-topic, I looked up Marco Spada on the Bolshoi's website.  Judging by the synopsis even a keen balletgoer would have problems with this.  It sounds totally bonkers - does the choreography make up for the daft story?

 

bonkers... as opposed to , say, Le Corsaire? or Raymonda?

Edited January 29, 2014 by toursenlair

[Aruna S]

I'd like to veer slightly off-topic too, to share something I've just discovered. My son, who was also dazzled by Giselle, has modified the names of one of our cats, and she is now called Estella Esmeralda Rojo-Osipova 

[Terpsichore]

I love German Romanticism .  (Have you discovered the "Not Dance" forum yet?)

 

I do know the "Not Dance forum and check it out every day as I do all the forums. The reason I have not contributed to any of the non-dance topics is that I have not had anything to say though I have come close to wading into the room 101 and children's activities threads.

 

I am working on a little essay on romanticism to start as a pot boiler which I shall probably toss in after I get back from Prince of the Pagodas and Sibley. If it is OK with you I would like to widen it beyond German romanticism for two reasons. The first is that I am more familiar with English and French literature than I am with German. Secondly, I want to include the other arts into the discussion including ballet.

 

However, I am looking forward to reading your literary references. It is years since I read anything in German that was not a patent specification or commentary on a law report.

 

Judging by the pain I sense in some of the replies to my reflections on Giselle I seem to have hurt some people for which I am very sorry, In particular, I fear that I may have hurt LinMM who wrote the most lovely review last night which touched me as it did others.   I can't resile from my opinion that there is something sinister in the plot and I may have views on other ballets that not everybody would share but I shall take greater care in the way that I express them.

Edited January 29, 2014 by terpsichore

[Jan McNulty]

I think it's good that we are all different and have different opinions (otherwise the world would be an incredibly boring place!).

 

The very first performance of Giselle I ever saw was at the Liverpool Empire in 1985.  It was Mary Skeaping's production for ENB (still LFB in those days).  Mary McKendry was Giselle and Maurizio Bellezza was Albrecht.  Despite this, I was absolutely bored rigid!!  I don't know when I realised that Giselle was a meisterwork and I now love and admire the Skeaping production.

[LinMM]

You have not hurt me in the slightest Terpischore!! Which is why I haven't commented!! To be honest I had to read your very erudite post a couple of times to fully understand where you were coming from! Especially as I was a Quaker or Friend as I prefer to say for twelve years from the ages of 13 to 25! But my parents weren't.......which may make a difference.

 

Art and Life can be a bit of a conundrum. Mozart wrote the most divine music but its hard to place that with Mozart the man!! Not always a particularly nice or honourable individual even if some say he was just ahead of his time in his mores!!

 

Where Giselle is concerned I have always just accepted this as just a rather strange story and always feel that poor Hilarion gets it whilst the real culprit is saved albeit by Giselles love which he hardly deserves! But then that's life for you too. We often are lucky not to get our just deserts and unlucky to get things chucked at us that we don't deserve!! Although you could argue Giselle was a bit of a weak character (by modern standards that is) who gains her strength of character in death so to speak!!

Personally I'm all for this life here now on Earth and don't place that much store on the "afterlife" so it's better to work for things while you are still alive!!

But hey it's just a story.....and I think the main message is an old one that real Love transforms and transcends everything ...its just a beautiful ballet to lovely music and why it is so satisfying to watch especially when performed as on Monday!!

[alison]

It is years since I read anything in German that was not a patent specification

 

I know the feeling 

 

Oh, wait, I did read Roger Federer's biography last year, but that's about it.  Anyway, back to Giselle ...

[toursenlair]

I'd like to veer slightly off-topic too, to share something I've just discovered. My son, who was also dazzled by Giselle, has modified the names of one of our cats, and she is now called Estella Esmeralda Rojo-Osipova 

And *I* get weird looks when I yell "Minkus" out the door for one of mine...

[Coated]

This might have been mentioned earlier, but suicides were always buried on non-consecrated ground and 19th century ballet-goers would probably have been very confused if a girl who was known to have died by suicide were laid to rest in a graveyard.

 

So unless Giselle did literally die of heart failure in the original, the forest grave makes 'perfect' sense

[aileen]

I believe that suicide was regarded as a mortal sin by the Catholic Church and a sin by most other Churches.

[Josephine]

Like Janet McNulty my first Giselle was Mary Skeaping's LFB production, seen in childhood. The principals were Dagmar Kessler & Peter Schaufuss. It was a very long time ago! For me, ballet addiction did not take hold until at least 25 years later, but I've always treasured my memory of this performance. The visual impact of Skeaping's staging was very powerful & made a huge impression on me.

[Sim]

One of the dancers said when the Wilis stand in line with their arms curved at the waist, they are holding the babies they never had, I've never heard that before. 

Neither have I, but what a fascinating way to look at it.  It makes complete sense in the context of why they are Wilis in the first place.  Tonight I will be watching them from a new viewpoint, and thinking of them as mothers that never were.  Perhaps that is why they are so cross and vengeful;  not only were they deceived by men, but because of them they have been denied their basic function as a female; i.e., to reproduce.  This would make any young girl very sad as well as very angry, especially in those days when reproduction was pretty much all a woman was good for!  I have never, in the many years I've been watching Giselle, looked at the Wilis as mothers who never were.  Now I have a new insight into their vengeance.  Fab!  This is one of the things I love about ballet;  always something new to think about and watch, always different interpretations of a story or music by both choreographers and dancers....how can one ever tire of it?!!