Jan McNulty Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 My birthday present to myself is a ticket to Le Corsaire on 14 Feb. Having read the press and the comments here I am looking forward to it. Will anybody else from this Forum be at the Palace on that day by any chance? I'm currently thinking of adding that performance to my already bulging ticket box! Will have to let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpsichore Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I'm currently thinking of adding that performance to my already bulging ticket box! Will have to let you know. I know. How it mounts up. I'm already seeing 10 shows and am about to add Ballet West's Swan Lake and Northern's Cleopatra to the tally. Do you think our passion is turning into an obsession? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Mine turned into an obsession 30 years ago this year! (26th May 1984 to be precise when I had my damascene moment at an LFB performance of Onegin at the Coliseum. I only realised years later when re-looking at the programme just why I was so probably caught hook, line and sinker. I had just been privileged to watch Marcia Haydee and Richard Cragun dancing the leading roles with Maurizio Belleza and Lucia Truglia as Lensky and Olga and Michael Pink as Gremin!) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpsichore Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Mine turned into an obsession 30 years ago this year! (26th May 1984 to be precise when I had my damascene moment at an LFB performance of Onegin at the Coliseum. I only realised years later when re-looking at the programme just why I was so probably caught hook, line and sinker. I had just been privileged to watch Marcia Haydee and Richard Cragun dancing the leading roles with Maurizio Belleza and Lucia Truglia as Lensky and Olga and Michael Pink as Gremin!) That's as good as it gets. I think it was Firebird for me. Or perhaps Petrushka. I also remember a wonderful Coppelia by Festival at the Coliseum. My moment came somewhat earlier in 1968 or 1969 when I went to university and had my own income. I had to wait till then because my father did not really approve of ballet although he appreciated all the other arts. My mother did like ballet and she used to take me to the occasional open air performance on Streatham Common in 1955 or 1956 when we lived briefly in London but she kept quiet about it as did I. I know that I have always loved the music and costumes and I was awestruck by dancing on point. In an article that I wrote for my blog which was inspired an enquiry from a friend in Carlisle whose daughter has just started ballet lessons I said "Ballet is the little bit of magic that remains when you discover that there is no Father Christmas and there are no fairies at the bottom of your garden." That was certainly my experience though I also discovered other wonders like science to replace the magic. Edited January 24, 2014 by terpsichore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Going back to Le Corsaire I've had an email today with an offer of 25% off Tues- Sat evenings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Q Fan Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Wonder if ENB (?previously LFB?) would do Onegin now....that would be a treat but then I have always said Don Q would suit ENB!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Last time they were due to do it was around the turn of the century - and then it got scrapped and replaced with Coppelia. I assumed there was some sort of clash. Not sure I could see Rojo having anything to do with the Cranko estate given her previous history, although I may be wrong ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPD444 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Just been looking through the tickets available for the run in Manchester and the take up looks very poor. Come on you Northerners, its a great show and would lose something playing to an empty house. The production deserves much better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Wall Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I so agree SPD444. Sadly the same was the case - at least to my eyes - in the performances I had the good fortune to attend in Southampton and Oxford. This production - from all perspectives - not only deserves to be attended; it should be cherished. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Just been looking through the tickets available for the run in Manchester and the take up looks very poor. Come on you Northerners, its a great show and would lose something playing to an empty house. The production deserves much better. All the Northerners I know are going to one or two performances (or 3 at the moment in my case)! I hope some more of us come out of the woodwork - it is a terrific production with fabulous dancing. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpsichore Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Just been looking through the tickets available for the run in Manchester and the take up looks very poor. Come on you Northerners, its a great show and would lose something playing to an empty house. The production deserves much better. I am not in the least bit surprised. A lot of folk will have been deterred by the the box office's mark-up. It has added a whopping £4 transaction fee and an outrageous £2.90 per ticket fee to the basic price of the ticket which I for one regard as cheeky. Also English National are coming to Manchester during half term when many young professionals with school age children take a holiday. This is the time of the year when one can get an appointment at Kendals and a table at Rosso without the slightest difficulty. It's as predictable as the Parisian exodus to the plages in August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Oh, is it half-term then in Manchester? The London schools are on holiday the following week. I agree with you about the fees charged by ATG. It's cheeky to charge a fee per ticket *and* a transaction fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 But standard ATG practise and a practise that is being followed by more and more theatres (albeit with usually smaller fees). You usually have to book in person to avoid them and, in some theatres you have to pay in cash to avoid them. If you go to ATG theatres a lot it may be worthwhile investing in an ATG card at £35 per year. They offer discounts for most shows and you do not have to pay the fees. I got one for the first time last year and saved over £100, excluding fees. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Faced with the ridiculous booking charges by ATG for the Oxford dates, I phoned up the box office and spoke to a very helpful lady who suggested I send a cheque with a self addressed envelope, and although she couldn't guarantee the exact tickets I requested, she would send the nearest still available. Which is exactly what happened- I did get my original request and I saved the booking fees. So it is always worth ringing a booking office to see if they will offer to do this for you. Edited January 27, 2014 by Odyssey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I used to do this with Sunderland but then the pick-up times for the box office personnel were reduced so I ended up getting picked up by Central booking anyway. I should make clear that I have no affiliation with ATG but regard the ATG card as one of my best purchases of 2013 (and have just renewed). Often tickets are half price for the first night and usually £5 off for other performances. You can book up to 4 tickets per performance. You do have to work out your costings though. I have used email and cheque with Sunderland (pre card) or friends who live there have very kindly booked in the past. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpsichore Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 But standard ATG practise and a practise that is being followed by more and more theatres (albeit with usually smaller fees). You usually have to book in person to avoid them and, in some theatres you have to pay in cash to avoid them. If you go to ATG theatres a lot it may be worthwhile investing in an ATG card at £35 per year. They offer discounts for most shows and you do not have to pay the fees. I got one for the first time last year and saved over £100, excluding fees. That's good advice but difficult for many theatre goers to follow especially if they are self-employed because the cost of taking time off work, petrol, public transport into town and parking are even greater than those "transaction" and "per ticket fees". The theatre owners know that which is how they get away with it. It is true that other theatres are following the practice and it is killing the market in Manchester. I know of at least one lady who has given up the Palace altogether because of these extras. She could easily afford them because she has a high disposable income as a practising solicitor but she refuses to pay them on principle. She loves ballet as much as we do. She studied it as a child and still attends class as an adult as and when she can. She also has two children who are also learning ballet. She now relies on HDTV transmissions such as tonight's for her ballet or makes a weekend of it and goes to London or some other capital where she can combine a trip to the theatre with the museums, restaurants and department stores. That is precisely what she will be doing this February. I am not sure what the answer is. I had thought of complaining to the Markets and Competition Authority under the Competition Act 1998 but I don't know enough about the size or structure of the provincial theatre market and I don't have the time to find out. I remember that restaurants operated a similar nonsense with cover and 12.5% service charges about 10 years ago. Diners stayed away and the restaurateurs were forced to give up those supplements. Possibly Manchester theatre goers will do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Sadly, I suspect not Terpsichore. These fees have been extant in Manchester for many years, since long before the theatres were taken over by ATG. I am so against the fees, if I needed to book in advance, I would pay a £10 return rail fare rather than pay the £2 fee! Also our circle of ballet-watching friends would book in person for all of us on occasion. When I first got my card, I discovered that I had to register my details on 3 separate systems as the systems had not yet been amalgamated for all theatres in the group. Hopefully that has changed and you can go into any ATG theatre to book, card holder or not! Back to Le Corsaire - can't wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpsichore Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) I should make clear that I have no affiliation with ATG but regard the ATG card as one of my best purchases of 2013 (and have just renewed). Often tickets are half price for the first night and usually £5 off for other performances. You can book up to 4 tickets per performance. You do have to work out your costings though. Again, very good advice Janet McNulty but if I had £35 to spare I would rather give it to Scottish or Northern Ballet so that Christopher Hampson or David Nixon could create new ballets, the London Ballet Circle so that a promising student could attend a summer school like the one in York or even the appeal by a young man in your neck of the woods who needs to raise a fabulous sum to complete his studies in Moscow. You will know better than I, but I think this is a specifically Manchester problem. The Leeds and Bradford theatres don't seem to charge these whopping extras though that may be because the Stanley & Audrey Burton Theatre is on the same site as my ballet class and the West Yorkshire Playhouse and even The Grand are only a few minutes walk away. However, that gives rise to another problem which is that I can't remember the last time English National, Birmingham Royal or Scottish Ballet had a season in Leeds. Smaller companies like Ballet Black and MurleyDance gave shows at the S & A Burton last year but Yorkshire folk do like a bit of variety like everyone else and our choice is to pay transaction or per ticket fees in Manchester or go to London. The only other time I have been forced to pay these ridiculous extras was when I went to Glasgow on 21 Dec 2013 to see Hansel and Gretel. The Theatre Royal Glasgow is also managed by ATG. A couple of glasses of dry white wine cost almost twice as much as a similar order at The Grand 5 days later. Also the Theatre Royal management circulated cast lists for the 18 and not the 21 Dec. My friend (who is a Scottish solicitor) and I had to mention bits of consumer protection law to the front of house manager before we were emailed the correct cast list the following Monday. For the benefit of those who attended the show and didn't complain or maybe didn't notice I reproduced it in my blog, Incidentally that was my first post to this forum. It seems such a long time ago though it is just over a month. I really must pipe down here. Edited January 27, 2014 by terpsichore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Don't these fees apply to all theatres whose bookings are handled by ATG? That's quite a few. It's interesting what you say about the ballet companies not visiting Leeds. Is that because it's the 'home' of Northern Ballet and there is an agreement with the other companies that they won't tour there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 No Aileen it's not. Both ENB and BRB had stopped visiting Leeds long before Northern Ballet moved there. When Northern Ballet were based at Spring Hall in Halifax, the Alhambra in Bradford was considered the "home" theatre and BRB also visited there. ENB also used to go there and, indeed, premiered Makarova's Swan Lake there but they stopped going to Bradford in the early 1990s. BRB stopped going in the early noughties. I think a lot of where the larger companies go to is determined by their Arts Council grants. I know that they all have "target" venues that they are expected to go to. As I understand it, if they choose to go to other theatres it is at their own risk. There is very little cross-over of venues with these three companies these days. Scottish Ballet used to perform in Liverpool, Sheffield, Hull and Newcastle on a reasonably regular basis. They have been affected by issues of cross-border funding as have BRB and NB. Although NB still go to Edinburgh and Cardiff annually. Re fees - as far as I am aware Aileen - yes they do apply to all theatres whose bookings are managed by ATG. The theatres in Leeds and Bradford are council run (as are a number of others) and they tend to charge lesser fees. If you book at The Lowry on line the booking fee is included in the ticket price and it says so at the website (currently £2 per ticket) hence my trip over there last week to book various tickets. Actually I was booking so many it was cheaper for me to drive over there than do it on line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I've got an ATG card so never think about booking fees. I hadn't realised it was hslf term, both Staffs & Cheshire is the following week. Here is the link to the 25% off if anyone wants it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 http://www.manchestertheatres.com/offers-lecorsaire.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpsichore Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 It should not be forgotten how this discussion of mark-ups originated. SPD444 complained that ticket sales for Le Corsaire were slow. If the theatre is forced to discount performances by Klimentova, Muntagirov, Rojo and Acosta there must be a risk that this tour will lose money. If it does lose money it could be difficult to attract English National or indeed other first class companies in ballet and other performing arts back to Manchester. Should that happen it will have serious consequences not just for ballet in the North West but the North West itself. The quality of life in a metropolitan area is one of the factors that attracts high achievers and investment to that area. Different people have different interests but the performing arts is high on most peoples' list. Every time I dine with clients or colleagues we usually discuss what is happening in local theatres and Bridgewater Hall as well the fortunes of City and United and house prices in Halebarns. If our region ceases to attract top class performing artists it will be harder to attract and indeed retain top class talent in other fields. According to Wikipedia the county of Greater Manchester has some 2.685 million inhabitants and if one adds the communities in Cheshire, Derbyshire, Yorkshire and Lancashire which make up the commuter belt the population will be well over 3 million. That is the second largest conurbation in the country and comparable with Milan that supports La Scala and Vienna which supports the Volksoper. With a population of that size it ought to be possible for ATG to fill a theatre for a production of Le Corsaire that is widely acclaimed as outstanding. If it can't it should ask itself why. I venture to suggest that at least part of the answer is the £6.90 mark-up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Interestingly, the tickets for Rambert at Woking attract lower fees via ATG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 The fees vary by show and venue! Some of the ones I have seen are eye-watering! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I am shocked at the markup, but not surprised. Not sure if I was talking about it on this forum, but when I went to the tennis at the O2 in London, they charged me a booking fee, even though I went and bought my ticket from the box office. And then they had the cheek to add on a "facilities" charge (it was not specified what facilities they were talking about). All in all, the cost of the ticket was £10 more than the actual seat price advertised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 There's talk on the Vadim Muntagirov thread about the Le Corsaire casting for Madrid. Where is this, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 They are performing at theTeatros del Canal and Daria and Vadim are down for 2 performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I agree with you about the fees charged by ATG. It's cheeky to charge a fee per ticket *and* a transaction fee. Very definitely. I think they're copying the big guys like Ticketmaster and so on, and/or the people who sell tickets for rock concerts. You usually have to book in person to avoid them and, in some theatres you have to pay in cash to avoid them. If you go to ATG theatres a lot it may be worthwhile investing in an ATG card at £35 per year. They offer discounts for most shows and you do not have to pay the fees. I got one for the first time last year and saved over £100, excluding fees. Wycombe Swan, for one (as I discovered when I went to see BRB last summer). The ATG card certainly does offer a lot of bargains, and covers a lot of ENB venues now, so might be worth considering. I had one on their "£20.12 / 2012" deal, but haven't bothered renewing, although I might consider it again in future. Sadly, I suspect not Terpsichore. These fees have been extant in Manchester for many years, since long before the theatres were taken over by ATG. Really? I've only noticed them in the last year or two, and only from ATG. Also to be noted, if you go onto the ATG website, is that they also sell tickets for a number of theatres which aren't in their group - I wonder whether they apply the same fees to those, too? When I first got my card, I discovered that I had to register my details on 3 separate systems as the systems had not yet been amalgamated for all theatres in the group. Hopefully that has changed and you can go into any ATG theatre to book, card holder or not! Huh. I doubt it. Since I moved, I'm getting mailshots to both my old and new addresses from both Oxford and Wimbledon. Thanks for reminding me: I'm in Wimbledon next week for the Siberians, so will try and remember to ask at the box office and get things changed. I think someone has already told me that I'll need to contact Oxford separately. You will know better than I, but I think this is a specifically Manchester problem. The Leeds and Bradford theatres don't seem to charge these whopping extras Definitely not, I'm afraid. L & B aren't ATG, which may be why they're exempt, but I know Wimbledon now charges the excessive fees (and probably a restoration levy, too). I think Woking probably does too, although I haven't been down there for a couple of years. I think a lot of where the larger companies go to is determined by their Arts Council grants. I know that they all have "target" venues that they are expected to go to. As I understand it, if they choose to go to other theatres it is at their own risk. I remember being told back late last century, I think it was, that ENB had dropped some theatres because of unsuitable flooring. Other theatres had upgraded to sprung floors, and so they were going for those theatres rather than some others. And then they had the cheek to add on a "facilities" charge (it was not specified what facilities they were talking about). All in all, the cost of the ticket was £10 more than the actual seat price advertised. That's disgusting. I don't remember it being so bad back in 2012, but last year I got a bargain ticket offer from Viagogo and so didn't so much mind paying exorbitant booking fees because it still came out cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I assume that although a lot of theatres are charities they outsource their ticketing to commercial outfits. Is this really more cost effective than having online booking out of their own box offices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Really? I've only noticed them in the last year or two, and only from ATG. Also to be noted, if you go onto the ATG website, is that they also sell tickets for a number of theatres which aren't in their group - I wonder whether they apply the same fees to those, too? Definitely not, I'm afraid. L & B aren't ATG, which may be why they're exempt, but I know Wimbledon now charges the excessive fees (and probably a restoration levy, too). I think Woking probably does too, although I haven't been down there for a couple of years. Yes really. The Manchester Palace Theatre is the first theatre that I became aware of that charged fees for booking tickets. IIRC, the ticket "agency" was actually part of the theatre box office. The theatre was run by Apollo Leisure in those days and the fees were like a creeping death in that the Empire escaped for some years before that was dragged in. Apollo Leisure became part of Live Nation and then ATG. I would guess the fees have been charged for around 20 years now. As I pointed out in post #317 Leeds and Bradford (and indeed Hull and Sheffield) are council run theatres and are not operated by ATG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpsichore Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 And then they had the cheek to add on a "facilities" charge (it was not specified what facilities they were talking about). All in all, the cost of the ticket was £10 more than the actual seat price advertised. Oh I can top that. The Stockport Plaza demands £2 postage for a £15 ticket for on-line bookings. This is a benefit performance for a North-West charity for which Vargas and Glurdjidze are giving up a Sunday afternoon not to mention lots of rehearsal and other time. There is no excuse for demanding a mark-up for on-line transactions. The Internet saves businesses money. That is why so many retailers and indeed HMG and local authorities promote electronic commerce, Janet McNulty is quite right to say that the practice of charging these extras started in Manchester long before ATG took over the Palace. I used to go to the Palace frequently and I have seen some great shows there by some of the world's leading ballet companies. Now if I go to Manchester at all it is to the Bridgewater Hall or The Lowry and I buy my tickets at the box office whenever I happen to be in town. Since last February I have seen 21 ballets of which 7 were in Leeds or Bradford, 6 in London but only 4 in Manchester. As Janet McNulty noted the Leeds and Bradford theatres are run by their local authorities and they do not charge hefty extras. There is a lot of evidence that those cities are benefiting commercially as well as artistically as a result of such moderation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The budget airlines got into trouble over charging 'extras' and legislation was introduced to put a stop to it. There are also laws regulating debit and credit card transaction fees... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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