How to promote ballet

[Sim]

On 23/03/2024 at 12:18, jmhopton said:

but today they seem mainly dependent on social media which is presumably where they think their 'new audience' will come from. A bit more attention to affordable ticket prices might make them retain more regulars who are being priced out of the art form they love.

I think that the PR people and others at the ROH have shown time and time again that retaining regulars is at the bottom of their 'to do' list, if it's there at all.  We don't seem to count for much.  

[bridiem]

1 hour ago, Emeralds said:

 "Influencers" are just random folk who open a social media account to use it to earn money- previously only  Instagram but now usually with Tiktok and X/Twitter as well. They post lots of videos and photos, usually at least a few a day, carefully photographed (and stage managed).to look as photogenic as possible, posted on public setting, to attract as many viewers  as possible. It'sike the digital equivalent of the street entertainer or unlicensed busker. Or as my older relatives call it, being a hustler! 😄 

 

Teens and young folk have a more forgiving view- I'm informed by a young relative that having a YouTube account or Instagram account that attracts a lot of viewers and followers can earn you a tidy sum in advertising revenue, and just about every  teen knows of people who cheerily post rubbish on social media and YouTube every day (from whining about traffic to pop gossip to gaming anecdotes) while holding a respectable, useful job, and the social media account actually pays more money than their real job!

 

Eventually if you have a lot of followers, companies might ask you (perhaps after you have approached them by tagging them) to photograph yourself with their products or their business premises and put them in your posts and pay you for doing so. If you have lots of followers and attract advertisers in this way, you can be called an influencer. 

 

Yes, although to be fair there is sometimes a degree of professionalism behind what they do. My cousin's daughter did a course in make-up for stage, screen and etc, and does (very idiosyncratic) make-up/lifestyle videos on TikTok that have attracted more and more viewers so she now has 1 million followers (!). She evidently makes a lot of money from brand sponsorships etc, and she now travels a lot. She's now in her early 20s... I find it completely baffling and meaningless, but she does work hard at what she does. (Whether it's worth doing is, of course, another matter entirely...).

[Sim]

On 23/03/2024 at 21:33, art_enthusiast said:

 

 

I like the atmosphere of having a lot of young people under one roof, especially as the ROH audience tends to skew older particularly in recent years, cost of living crisis etc, it's easier for older people to afford tickets as they're not as impacted by unaffordable housing, bizarre job market, post Covid recession and what have you. 

 

 

As an 'older' person I totally disagree with this statement.  Unaffordable housing?  Have you ever asked an older person how easy it is for them to get a mortgage or rent a house/flat if they are over 60?  Bizarre job market?  Have you ever asked a person over 50 how easy it is for them to get a job when the 30 year-olds interviewing them think that anyone over 45 is a dribbling idiot?  Post Covid recession?  Have you ever asked an older person on a pension how easy it is to live during a recession?  When they have no chance of finding work? There are many older people who would love to come to the ballet but have to choose between eating for a week or a night out.  As far as I'm aware, there is no equivalent 'ROH young peoples' performances' for older people.  Nor do they get any ticket concessions.  So please don't think that it's only young people who suffer;  everyone does if they are unlucky enough to be in such situations.  Age has nothing to do with it.  

[zxDaveM]

4 hours ago, Sim said:

Can someone please explain to me what an 'influencer' actually is?  I keep hearing about them but where do they come from and what do they do?  Are they paid by companies to wear their clothes/perfume/shoes etc. and then tell their followers how fabulous such products are?  Is it just advertising dressed up as another word?  

 

once they have enough followers (on say tik-tok) they are showered with products to 'influence' said followers to buy.

And following such 'trend-makers' is the only explanation I can think of, as to why so many young women these days have inflated lips that make them look like they've taken a punch to the kisser, and have painted on mono-brows

 

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, Roberta said:

Yes it's Dante Sonata. Very 'modern' for its time @Dawnstar bare feet and all. 

 

https://bachtrack.com/review-sarasota-ballet-conflicted-beauty-the-art-of-war-dante-sonata-company-b-sarasota-november-2023

 

I'd naively assumed that all the Ashton pieces Sarasota would be dancing weould be fairly, well, traditional. I am suddenly feeling rather apprehensive! I hope Valses Nobles et Sentimentales won't be too modern, given I'll be seeing that twice as it's on both programmes.

[Roberta]

1 minute ago, Dawnstar said:

Valses Nobles et Sentimentales

 

I think you'll enjoy this.  

 

 

 

[Dawnstar]

Thanks @Roberta. That looks safe enough!

[Roberta]

6 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

Thanks @Roberta. That looks safe enough!

 

I think you'll enjoy this also, the beautiful music as well as the dancing.  It's Ashton after all! 

 

https://www.facebook.com/bhamroyalballet/videos/in-1940-at-the-height-of-the-blitz-sir-frederick-ashton-created-dante-sonata-a-c/227489588361054/

 

As part of this old Insight   Dante Sonata, Children of Light pas de deux. Music: Franz Liszt. Dancers: Momoko Hirata and César Morales.

 

 

 

 

 

[Emeralds]

3 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

 

Does anyone know which ballet the photo used to illustrate Sarasota Ballet in this video is from? The costumes remind me of Corybantic Games rather than what I'd expect costumes in any Ashton piece to look like.

Dante Sonata, definitely. (Can't see the costumes details in the video but I promise you they look better in real life than CG 😊)

 

[Wondering when the BRB regulars are going to chime in and say that BRB has almost identical photos of that scene on their Facebook page and website pages as they danced Dante Sonata several years ago 😉. ] 

[Emeralds]

51 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

I'd naively assumed that all the Ashton pieces Sarasota would be dancing weould be fairly, well, traditional. I am suddenly feeling rather apprehensive! I hope Valses Nobles et Sentimentales won't be too modern, given I'll be seeing that twice as it's on both programmes.

I find Dante Sonata quite traditional. There is a pas de deux without pointe shoes, but it is definitely classical ballet. It addresses World War 2 which was a frightening thing in 1940 as you can imagine- so I think it's right that the pointe shoes were set aside. Yet it's very classical in its approach. Not twee and "pretty pretty" but clearly classical.

 

The pas de deux was danced at one of the Insight Evenings along with other rare gems like Hamlet and Ophelia (also being staged in June). If you saw that Insight Evening online, Dawnstar (still available on YouTube).you probably already know it without realising. 😀 

[Roberta]

7 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

Wondering when the BRB regulars are going to chime in and say that BRB has almost identical photos of that scene on their Facebook page and website pages as they danced Dante Sonata several years ago 😉. ] 

 

I did in the post above yours? 😉

[Roberta]

1 minute ago, Emeralds said:

The pas de deux was danced at one of the Insight Evenings along with other rare gems like Hamlet and Ophelia (also being staged in June). If you saw that Insight Evening online, Dawnstar (still available on YouTube).you probably already know it without realising. 😀 

 

*cough* I also posted the Insight. 

[Emeralds]

2 hours ago, bridiem said:

 

Yes, although to be fair there is sometimes a degree of professionalism behind what they do. My cousin's daughter did a course in make-up for stage, screen and etc, and does (very idiosyncratic) make-up/lifestyle videos on TikTok that have attracted more and more viewers so she now has 1 million followers (!). She evidently makes a lot of money from brand sponsorships etc, and she now travels a lot. She's now in her early 20s... I find it completely baffling and meaningless, but she does work hard at what she does. (Whether it's worth doing is, of course, another matter entirely...).

I don't know if there is a distinction between an influencer and someone who uses social media as an extension of their profession eg Steven McRae, Marianela Nunez, Tiler Peck etc ....they may have a lot of followers and have lots of advertising offers and freebies, but I  think most people who know these things say they're technically not influencers but experts who are at the top of their field so they attract advertisers and followers the way Roger Federer and Andy Murray also attract million dollar advertising offers and many fans. 

 

Your cousin's daughter is probably in a similar situation in that she's using her skills that she trained in, her videos may offer instruction or advice, which I think is different to the influencers that just prance around posting where they went for coffee, what funny sights they saw, and what new clothes they bought, etc

Edited March 28 by Emeralds

[San Perregrino]

2 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

I  think most people who know these things say they're technically not influencers but experts who are top of their field

Sportsmen & women and ballet dancers can be at the top of their field of expertise but IMHO  if they’re posting about e.g.  a scented candle then they’re no different from any other ‘influencer’. 

[bridiem]

1 minute ago, Emeralds said:

I don't know if there is a distinction between someone who uses social media as an extension of their profession eg Steven McRae, Marianela Nunez, Tiler Peck etc ....they may have a lot of followers and have lots of advertising offers and freebies, but I  think most people who know these things say they're technically not influencers but experts who are top of their field so they attract advertisers and followers the way Roger Federer and Andy Murray also attract million dollar advertising offers and many fans. Your cousin's daughter is probably in a similar situation in that she's using her skills that she trained in, her videos may offer instruction or advice, which I think is different to the influencers that just prance around posting where they went for coffee, what funny sights they saw, and what new clothes they bought, etc

 

Well, I'd like to think that, @Emeralds, but I'm not too sure! She does have skills and she does offer advice etc, but it's all done in a very - er - silly way, frankly, and there's a lot of fluff too - that all seems to be part of the attraction... But it's all done very deliberately, and it's clearly very successful. Oh well.

[Emeralds]

31 minutes ago, Roberta said:

 

I did in the post above yours? 😉

I didn't copy you, @Roberta- didn't know you are attending BRB regularly? I'm just saying that a lot of our members who attend regularly might have seen the programme and want to advise her to scroll through the BRB pages to get more information. I do know that it's difficult for Dawnstar herself to see BRB except when they tour south. The DS programme didn't come to London. 

 

30 minutes ago, Roberta said:

 

*cough* I also posted the Insight. 

Again, we're saying different things- we discussed it extensively when it was presented online (before you joined) and I might have remembered wrongly but I think Dawnstar did see it so rather than sticking a link up, and suggesting she watch the entire one hour event again, I was trying to jog her memory, which is a bit more helpful. (For those who haven't seen the Dante Sonata pas de deux and want to skip the rest, it is at 18:30 minutes in.) 

 

It's not a contest, Roberta, people inadvertently copy what I say or what others have already posted all the time. We're here to help fellow readers out- or at least, I am. There are no prizes. 

[Roberta]

1 minute ago, Emeralds said:

It's not a contest, Roberta, people inadvertently copy what I say or what others have already posted all the time. We're here to help fellow readers out- or at least, I am. There are no prizes. 

 

Oh dear. I was not being competitive, simply lighthearted. No need for a hissy fit, I'm off for a nice calming cup of tea. Perhaps you will do the same. 

 

 

[Emeralds]

14 minutes ago, San Perregrino said:

Sportsmen & women and ballet dancers can be at the top of their field of expertise but IMHO  if they’re posting about e.g.  a scented candle then they’re no different from any other ‘influencer’. 

There's probably some overlap - ie some people do post such non-profession related items I suppose.  😀  

[Emeralds]

19 hours ago, LinMM said:

It’s not so much people sitting at tables eating something from Pret but people who are using the area to work with their computers with wires spread out across to the plugs just rife for someone to trip over ( I’m very aware of falling over at the moment) but have seen this in the downstairs cafe area. 
I think it’s okay to work in the cafe till about 6pm but after that the tables should be left free for those wishing to eat or drink. 
I certainly wouldn’t have the nerve to bring in food from another vendor like Pret to eat there! 

I must admit I've seen the laptop folk as well, LinMM- there seem to be a lot particularly at Barbican Centre who use the refreshment tables to do this, although they do seem to have enough tables for people who want to consume refreshments. I saw a few at ROH (not all at the same time) with a laptop who were very careful to use just one tray space (ie not encroaching into another diner's space) and they did have a hot drink in an ROH cup and saucer so I guess that's just about OK! The people with trailing cables must have left by the time I got there. 

Edited March 28 by Emeralds

[Fonty]

3 hours ago, Roberta said:

 

And yet at Glyndebourne this is actively encouraged! 😉

 I've never been to Glyndebourne, but I thought the whole idea there was to bring your own picnic.   Of course, the ROH could create a picnic area somewhere I suppose, but I am astonished that people are openly bringing their own alcohol in.  I cannot think of any other theatre in London that would allow that.  I remember once I was going to a matinee somewhere, and then on to dinner at a friend's house afterwards.  I can't remember the theatre, but they took one look at the bottle of wine in my bag and told me I couldn't take it in.  I did say I had bought it as a present for later, and they made me check in my wine bag with my coat.  Fair enough, I had no problem with it.  



 

[Dawnstar]

3 hours ago, Emeralds said:

The pas de deux was danced at one of the Insight Evenings along with other rare gems like Hamlet and Ophelia (also being staged in June). If you saw that Insight Evening online, Dawnstar (still available on YouTube).you probably already know it without realising. 😀 

 

I must have seen that Insight because I remember Hamlet & Ophelia but I have no recollection of the Dante Sonata part of it.

[Scheherezade]

Top flight influencers are given an eye watering amount of high end goods as their endorsement brings in far more revenue for the suppliers. And to channel Linda Evangelista’s oft-repeated statement that ‘80s supermodels wouldn’t get out of bed for less than £10,000, influencers who are at the top of their game are paid upwards of this sum for a single line of text or a few spoken words so, yes, lucrative indeed! 

[Jan McNulty]

19 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

 

Does anyone know which ballet the photo used to illustrate Sarasota Ballet in this video is from? The costumes remind me of Corybantic Games rather than what I'd expect costumes in any Ashton piece to look like.

Dante … same costume as BRB.

[Jan McNulty]

16 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

 

I'd naively assumed that all the Ashton pieces Sarasota would be dancing weould be fairly, well, traditional. I am suddenly feeling rather apprehensive! I hope Valses Nobles et Sentimentales won't be too modern, given I'll be seeing that twice as it's on both programmes.

Dante Sonata is a serious anti-war piece and well worth viewing albeit somewhat different in style from what you may expect.

[Roberta]

54 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

Dante Sonata is a serious anti-war piece and well worth viewing albeit somewhat different in style from what you may expect.

 

 

In the Ashton Insights link which I posted above the BRB dancers with Dante Sonata 'Children of Light' PDD is at around 15.38, the roles created on Fonteyn and Somes. Beautiful music also.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWfIJilWvII 

 

[Blossom]

22 hours ago, Emeralds said:

I must admit I've seen the laptop folk as well, LinMM- there seem to be a lot particularly at Barbican Centre who use the refreshment tables to do this, although they do seem to have enough tables for people who want to consume refreshments. I saw a few at ROH (not all at the same time) with a laptop who were very careful to use just one tray space (ie not encroaching into another diner's space) and they did have a hot drink in an ROH cup and saucer so I guess that's just about OK! The people with trailing cables must have left by the time I got there. 

I usually head over to ROH from my office for 5.30/6 and tend to work while I have a bite to eat and a coffee. I am always careful not to over spread, plus as I usually spend a good £15-20 I see no issue in taking the opportunity to finish off a few bits and pieces if I am alone for a performance. Staff do tend to remove empty cups and plates quite swiftly so I don’t think it’s always fair to make judgement and assume that people haven’t consumed something. 

[Emeralds]

18 minutes ago, Blossom said:

I usually head over to ROH from my office for 5.30/6 and tend to work while I have a bite to eat and a coffee. I am always careful not to over spread, plus as I usually spend a good £15-20 I see no issue in taking the opportunity to finish off a few bits and pieces if I am alone for a performance. Staff do tend to remove empty cups and plates quite swiftly so I don’t think it’s always fair to make judgement and assume that people haven’t consumed something. 

I think you are one of the early people (at 5.30-6pm I'm still on the first of two or three trains) that I don't see.  🙂  Must say there are actually not many people with laptops at ROH compared to Festival Hall or Barbican Centre- must stress that RFH & BC are OK as there is plenty of seating. 

 

At the ground level cafe the number of people I've seen walking up and sitting down quickly (so not diners who have already been there a while whose crockery has been whisked away) just to get an extra free seat before the show starts while diners who have bought food after queueing for ages at the counter are walking around desperately trying to find a seat... it's quite painful to see. Even if some are in standing places, there are benches and seating nearby which they could use.

 

Once I saw a mum and her small child having to eat their meals standing up while there were people right next to them just reading their phones or newspapers occupying the tables and chairs, seemingly oblivious. If they have finished eating, why can't they move on and let someone else sit down to dine? They don't need a table to play on their phones or read a paper. There is cushioned seating nearby which was not occupied at the time. It's selfish behaviour and rather disappointing. 

Edited March 29 by Emeralds

[Blossom]

Is anyone else seeing ads on Facebook and Instagram for ROH productions specifically encouraging Stalls bookings?

 

https://www.facebook.com/share/zFVEZiiSRZxYQUZq/?mibextid=WC7FNe

 

I have also seen for Winter’s Tale. 

[alison]

I was going to say I wondered why, since Carmen appeared to be largely sold out.  Then I scrolled down the page to what I presume is a second cast, and understood why they might be.

[San Perregrino]

10 hours ago, Blossom said:

Is anyone else seeing ads on Facebook and Instagram for ROH productions specifically encouraging Stalls bookings?

 

https://www.facebook.com/share/zFVEZiiSRZxYQUZq/?mibextid=WC7FNe

 

I have also seen for Winter’s Tale. 

I clicked on the link and got “Feel the heat from “The best seats in the House” ….

It doesn’t specifically mention Stalls seats? Or at least not the ad that popped up for me. (No discounts either).  
Previous discussion on the forum concluded that the best seat could be anywhere depending on the production and personal preference (and budget).  
edited to add:

my apologies it’s there right at the top of the ad “BOOK YOUR STALLS TICKETS NOW”, I didn’t even see it! Haha oops 

Edited April 8 by San Perregrino
Apology

[Mary]

When I click on it, it says: 'Book your stalls tickets now' and then the picture has a banner headline 'Book stalls tickets now'

 

Not that I'm going to!

[Candleque]

Technically this should be under "how NOT to promote ballet" or "how to promote opera" but I thought it was interesting that the Royal Opera House has sent me three marketing emails with a whopping 40% off Lucia di Lammermoor offer.

I am a lapsed Friend+ who has never bought a ticket for an opera at the ROH. So they are clearly barking up the wrong tree. As you might guess, the ROH has never ever sent me an offer for ballet. 

Do you think the opera fans are getting similar offers for the Winter's Tale, which also has lots of unsold seats??  
 

[capybara]

32 minutes ago, Candleque said:

Technically this should be under "how NOT to promote ballet" or "how to promote opera" but I thought it was interesting that the Royal Opera House has sent me three marketing emails with a whopping 40% off Lucia di Lammermoor offer.

I am a lapsed Friend+ who has never bought a ticket for an opera at the ROH. So they are clearly barking up the wrong tree. As you might guess, the ROH has never ever sent me an offer for ballet. 

Do you think the opera fans are getting similar offers for the Winter's Tale, which also has lots of unsold seats??  
 

Added to which (as a purchaser of only ballet tickets) all my automatic ROH social media feed is opera.

I write in with suggestions for ballet content on socials to no avail .