How to promote ballet

[Geoff]

21 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

I'd suggest that the "rules" haven't changed and their understanding of them was imperfect.

 

It does seem a bit heavy handed but I've always taken it as read that you should only use the tables if you have bought food and drink there. If I'm eating something I bought elsewhere I'll just perch on a chair or bench that doesn't have a table - it's perfectly doable. Tables are in quite short supply at ROH and are clearly positioned so as to be associated with the bars and café - it seems reasonable that people who've bought from them take precedence over those who haven't.

That reads like - perhaps logical but nonetheless - assumption, rather than house rules. Or have you seen any such signs over the years? I haven’t ever seen one. Hence my question about rules. 

[Lizbie1]

1 minute ago, Geoff said:

That reads like - perhaps logical but nonetheless - assumption, rather than house rules. Or have you seen any such signs over the years? I haven’t ever seen one. Hence my question about rules. 

 

Maybe the number of people unaware of what might previously have been considered well-understood etiquette has made them feel a "rule" was needed?

 

There are plenty of unspoken rules when going theatres like ROH, such as keeping coughing and unnecessary noise to a minimum. People here often lament that ROH doesn't work hard enough to promote good behaviour and police bad. I don't think it's such a bad thing that patrons of the bars and café should now stand a better chance of getting a table.

[JNC]

I agree that the tables should be available for those who have purchased food - having said that does the amphi bar even serve food? It’s just drinks I thought? 
 

I would be quite annoyed if I purchased food in say the cafe style area downstairs and couldn’t sit to eat it as someone was eating something from pret. But is this also any different to someone sitting there not eating or drinking anything at all? Sometimes I’ve been put off purchasing a snack or coffee as I can’t guarantee a table. 
 

The main thing for me is people are not eating in the auditorium (risking mess, smells and noise)! 
 

I think as is most of the way how these things are communicated is most of the thing. If a staff member politely said something like “I’m really sorry but these tables should be available for those who have purchased food/drink here” most people would oblige. But if you have someone with an attitude barking “no outside food allowed!” When you’re on a budget and or have finished work late and that’s your dinner, therefore being made to feel like you don’t belong - that’s the issue. Making people feel like they need to “hide” outside food as it’s not allowed will also increase the risk of people sneakily eating in the auditorium as well I’d guess.

 

[LinMM]

It’s not so much people sitting at tables eating something from Pret but people who are using the area to work with their computers with wires spread out across to the plugs just rife for someone to trip over ( I’m very aware of falling over at the moment) but have seen this in the downstairs cafe area. 
I think it’s okay to work in the cafe till about 6pm but after that the tables should be left free for those wishing to eat or drink. 
I certainly wouldn’t have the nerve to bring in food from another vendor like Pret to eat there! 

Edited March 27 by LinMM

[alison]

2 hours ago, Geoff said:

Tonight he writes that nearly everywhere was “reserved” and that there are now signs saying “We request that only food and drink purchased from one of our bars or cafe may be consumed at this table”. Leaving aside the sadly rather typically ROH clumsy choice of the word “consumed”, how long has this been the way the Amphi bar is run?

 

I can't speak for the amphi, but the tables in the Floral Hall have had that sign on them for some time.  The trouble is, people have been forced out from most of the amphi terrace seats which used to be free, so it's very difficult to find anywhere to consume anything these days.  One reason why regulars are starting to feel more and more unwelcome, I think.

 

I should perhaps mention that I myself have on a number of occasions bought something to eat from the cafe and not been able to find anywhere free to eat it (and ended up going upstairs to the terrace, where these days there is also little chance of finding anywhere you can eat) - but that has often been down to the lack of provision of chairs and tables in the cafe.

[Emeralds]

10 hours ago, Geoff said:

Might I shift the focus of the discussion slightly? Sticking with how to appeal to younger audiences, has there been a change of policy at the ROH recently with regard to bringing in one’s own food?

 

Just had a message from a couple of young people, happily enjoying the MacMillan triple bill from seats they can just about afford on a budget, and (as they have before) sharing something from a Pret A Manger bag in the Amphi bar. They are not (yet?) superfans (ie going more than once a week) but one certainly goes more than once a month and so knows the rules. Or used to know the rules.

 

Tonight he writes that nearly everywhere was “reserved” and that there are now signs saying “We request that only food and drink purchased from one of our bars or cafe may be consumed at this table”. Leaving aside the sadly rather typically ROH clumsy choice of the word “consumed”, how long has this been the way the Amphi bar is run?
 

Apparently the outdoor section of the Piazza terrace is still free for one’s own food and drink. But in any case these two young people were told off by staff, allowed I suppose as the rules have obviously tightened up, but this does not signal much of a welcome when people in their twenties need to be careful of the difference in cost between overpriced ROH sandwiches and what they can bring with them. 
 

What do people think? Will this kind of staff behaviour damage the chances of building the future long term audience - or is the short term profitability of bar sandwiches what matters most at the moment?

 

I have always felt the policy was fair. The cost, cleaning and maintenance of the tables and chairs are funded by the customers who pay for sandwiches, drinks and other refreshments bought at the bar.

 

It isn't fair nor logical that someone who has paid nothing but packed their own takeaways takes an entire table, while someone who has bought two plates and a glass either has to balance them on a ledge standing up, or doesn't even get a ledge to put the plates and has to sit on the floor to eat them because the tables have all been grabbed by non-paying folk.

 

I don't have objections to people whipping out their own snack at the table, eg dried fruit (which isn't stocked at the bars or cafe) if they have bought coffee, tea or a cold drink from the bar because they've at least bought something.

 

It's also very strange that reserving and paying for food/drinks before the interval doesn't guarantee one a table which is the practice in many venues/cities. There are admittedly a limited number of tables, but perhaps a small first come first served option of paying £2 could reserve a table- the tables could be given a code like a food item so once the tables are all sold, that could alert the bar staff not to sell any more. 

 

Also, perhaps there should be a sign in the ground floor cafe that people shouldn't occupy tables (meant for customers  who have bought food/drink to consume before the show or at the interval), when they haven't bought anything and are just sitting there to chat, play with their phones or read. 

Edited March 28 by Emeralds

[Mary]

I have seen very many people bringing in their own picnics and even cups of coffee from elsewhere to 'consume' in the ROH in all areas, and agree it is fair enough to keep tables for those who have bought food and drinks in house.

ROH seem to have been very tolerant especially compared to venues such as the Coliseum where possession of a sandwich can see you whisked off to the dungeons...

 

But -  on the other hand,  it would also be fair enough for ROH to let their paying audience have space to sit, stand, drink in the cafe, and especially on the terrace in the intervals. The terrace is now almost entirely taken over by casual visitors in intervals of performances as well as during the day.

Staff are also sitting around in the building working - which is of course absolutely fine - and I have overheard many an interesting conversation surely not meant for the public ear, - but, maybe not  at performance times. This is a trend that seems to be everywhere- in my local museum now  about half the cafe is taken up with staff with laptops and those endless cardboard coffees having 'meetings',  so that visitors have nowhere to sit.

 

 

 

 

[JNC]

I agree, I like you can pop into ROH anytime but perhaps about an hour before performances it should exclusively be for those with tickets due to limited tables etc. to be honest I’m not sure if this would fix the problem as there’s still more people than tables! 

[San Perregrino]

There’s one long time visitor to the ROH who arrives with a bag full of food and wine purchased elsewhere that is brought out and enjoyed with their party of friends in plain sight of staff and other patrons both before a performance and in the intervals.
This struck me as being odd when I became a regular at the ROH several years ago but it continues to this day.

If I was minded to eat and drink before or during a show I would take this example as a precedent for it being ok to bring my own comestibles and bagging a table. 

Experience, however, has taught me that eating or drinking close to a performance spikes my blood sugar and makes me doze off regardless of how much I want to watch the action onstage. An expensive nap in so many ways! and so now I eat and drink elsewhere so that I can fully enjoy a performance. 

Edited March 28 by San Perregrino

[Mary]

13 minutes ago, San Perregrino said:

here’s one long time visitor to the ROH who arrives with a bag full of food and wine purchased elsewhere that is brought out and enjoyed with their party of friends in plain sight of staff and other patrons both before a performance and in the intervals.

Is that the Tupperware gang?

Very odd I agree.....

[San Perregrino]

Also, if you go on an opera night , the consumption of food brought from home seems to me to be much more visible all over the ROH including on the stairwells and landings. At a recent Flying Dutchman I almost tripped over a couple picnicking on a stairwell and narrowly avoided becoming the Flying Englishman!. 

[Sophoife]

...with photos like this. Lifar and Spessivtseva...

[San Perregrino]

Perhaps, on nights when it is ‘dark’ the Linbury bar area could be designated as a public picnic area in the same way that museums have a discrete area hidden in their bowels for school groups and families to eat. 

[capybara]

So where do audience members (many of whom obviously have difficulty standing and others with non visible medical conditions) wait until the auditorium is open (which can be as late as 20 minutes before a performance)?

The Linbury Foyer is often cordoned off; the velvet seating under the Stalls Circle is inaccessible. That leaves the toilets - and, yes, I have sat down in the Ladies many a time.

 

[LinMM]

I have to admit that these days I tend to get to ROH at least 2 hours before the performance if I can but always try to be there by 6pm latest!  
After 6.30 it does start to get very busy. It’s especially busy on days where there has been a matinee or when there are concurrent events in the Linbury or Clore. 
It must be especially annoying if audience members who are standing for the performance can find nowhere to sit beforehand. 

[capybara]

3 minutes ago, LinMM said:

 It must be especially annoying if audience members who are standing for the performance can find nowhere to sit beforehand. 

 I don’t want to be harsh; but performance choices aren’t really relevant. After all, people book to stand knowingly. There are patrons who need to sit while they wait.

[Sim]

Can someone please explain to me what an 'influencer' actually is?  I keep hearing about them but where do they come from and what do they do?  Are they paid by companies to wear their clothes/perfume/shoes etc. and then tell their followers how fabulous such products are?  Is it just advertising dressed up as another word?  

[San Perregrino]

1 hour ago, capybara said:

So where do audience members (many of whom obviously have difficulty standing and others with non visible medical conditions) wait until the auditorium is open (which can be as late as 20 minutes before a performance)?

The Linbury Foyer is often cordoned off; the velvet seating under the Stalls Circle is inaccessible. That leaves the toilets - and, yes, I have sat down in the Ladies many a time.

 

if the 'picnic populace' is herded downstairs then that would, at least hypothetically, free up the space upstairs. 

[San Perregrino]

14 minutes ago, Sim said:

Can someone please explain to me what an 'influencer' actually is?  I keep hearing about them but where do they come from and what do they do?  Are they paid by companies to wear their clothes/perfume/shoes etc. and then tell their followers how fabulous such products are?  Is it just advertising dressed up as another word?  

 

saying this with tongue in cheek, IMHO, "an influencer" is a Pied Pier, a leader of lemmings.

I'm minded of King Louie singing "I Wanna Be Like You' to Mowgli in The Jungle Book.

[alison]

34 minutes ago, Sim said:

Can someone please explain to me what an 'influencer' actually is?  I keep hearing about them but where do they come from and what do they do?  Are they paid by companies to wear their clothes/perfume/shoes etc. and then tell their followers how fabulous such products are?  Is it just advertising dressed up as another word?  

 

Basically, yes, I think.  Or they're given freebies on the understanding that they will review them (favourably?).  Same as your newspaper beauty editor being given free beauty products to review (but possibly with a larger circulation - some of these influences appear to have millions of followers).  (I say "appear" because one can also buy followers, apparently). They then tell all their followers how marvellous the product is and the sheep followers then probably go and buy the product as a result.

[Roberta]

The latest Royal Opera House promo has just landed on Twitter (or X if you prefer). I presume it's on Facebook and other ROH social media.

 

 

 

[Fonty]

With regard to food and drink, it would never occur to me to openly consume alcohol purchased elsewhere, surely that wouldn't be allowed in any place that has a drinks licence?  I have been known to sneak in my own sandwich/snack into the ROH, but I eat it discreetly.  I certainly don't flaunt it, and I would be very annoyed if I saw a table of people who are clearly having a picnic with their own stuff.  

 

I have always thought it was daft when the powers that be decided to allow people into the building without a ticket while a performance is on.  I often used to take people in for a drink during the day, as it is such a marvellous venue.  But as I recall, you couldn't do this on matinee days, and you certainly couldn't do it in evening. You had to show your ticket at the door before you went in.  Yes, I know that they think that the Opera House is now a Go To destination for people wanting to dine out in Covent Garden, but it is a theatre, not an eating arcade.  Certainly the tables in the bar areas should be for people attending the performances, not for any person who fancies getting their computer out and doing a spot of work, or for gossiping groups who have no interest in opera or ballet.  

 

Talking of food and drink, I have never seen so many empty tables in the balcony restaurant in the Floral Hall as there were last night.  In the old days it used to be packed.  I have eaten up there myself in the old days when tickets didn't bankrupt me.  The food wasn't outstanding, but the experience and the view was.  I used to love it, especially as you got your table for the whole evening.  Fantastic.  

 

 

 

 

[Emeralds]

1 hour ago, Sim said:

Can someone please explain to me what an 'influencer' actually is?  I keep hearing about them but where do they come from and what do they do?  Are they paid by companies to wear their clothes/perfume/shoes etc. and then tell their followers how fabulous such products are?  Is it just advertising dressed up as another word?  

 "Influencers" are just random folk who open a social media account to use it to earn money- previously only  Instagram but now usually with Tiktok and X/Twitter as well. They post lots of videos and photos, usually at least a few a day, carefully photographed (and stage managed).to look as photogenic as possible, posted on public setting, to attract as many viewers  as possible. It'sike the digital equivalent of the street entertainer or unlicensed busker. Or as my older relatives call it, being a hustler! 😄 

 

Teens and young folk have a more forgiving view- I'm informed by a young relative that having a YouTube account or Instagram account that attracts a lot of viewers and followers can earn you a tidy sum in advertising revenue, and just about every  teen knows of people who cheerily post rubbish on social media and YouTube every day (from whining about traffic to pop gossip to gaming anecdotes) while holding a respectable, useful job, and the social media account actually pays more money than their real job!

 

Eventually if you have a lot of followers, companies might ask you (perhaps after you have approached them by tagging them) to photograph yourself with their products or their business premises and put them in your posts and pay you for doing so. If you have lots of followers and attract advertisers in this way, you can be called an influencer. 

[Jan McNulty]

I've noticed some dancers mention "paid partnership with xxx" if they are wearing new ballet wear.

[Dawnstar]

2 hours ago, Roberta said:

The latest Royal Opera House promo has just landed on Twitter (or X if you prefer). I presume it's on Facebook and other ROH social media.

 

Does anyone know which ballet the photo used to illustrate Sarasota Ballet in this video is from? The costumes remind me of Corybantic Games rather than what I'd expect costumes in any Ashton piece to look like.

[Mary]

Is it Dante Sonata?

I have never seen it so not sure.

 

Ashton can be very 'modern' !

[alison]

Probably Dante Sonata, if it's a lot of white with black stripes/streaks on it.

[Roberta]

Yes it's Dante Sonata. Very 'modern' for its time @Dawnstar bare feet and all. 

 

https://bachtrack.com/review-sarasota-ballet-conflicted-beauty-the-art-of-war-dante-sonata-company-b-sarasota-november-2023

Edited March 28 by Roberta

[Roberta]

1 hour ago, Fonty said:

I would be very annoyed if I saw a table of people who are clearly having a picnic with their own stuff.  

 

And yet at Glyndebourne this is actively encouraged! 😉

[Lizbie1]

1 minute ago, Roberta said:

 

And yet at Glyndebourne this is actively encouraged! 😉

 

Except that at Glyndebourne if you want a table and haven't brought your own you pay a charge for one of theirs.

[Mary]

I'm now envisaging the next bag search as I go into ROH with my bottle of wine, glasses, picnic basket  - and folding table and chair (I shall have to take my butler with me) - I am sure the nice people on the door won't bat an eyelid!

 

😄

[Roberta]

23 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

Except that at Glyndebourne if you want a table and haven't brought your own you pay a charge for one of theirs

 

A picnic rug is best, though as you get older* you probably require the manservant who lugged the family wicker hamper there for you, which cook kindly filled with comestibles,  to haul you back up to standing position. 

 

 

https://www.glyndebourne.com/festival/a-guide-to-glyndebourne-festival-2024/

 

(*Old age huh? It's really not great.) 

 

 

And yes I'm kidding, Glyndebourne is fabulous and if you can go at least once in your life. Also, productions are available on an online basis later so you can sit on the floor in your tiara and best frock in the comfort of your own home and watch with a glass of fizz and a plate of whatever you fancy. Even a chip butty. 

 

https://www.glyndebourne.com/encore/

 

 

I'm being a 'social influencer' here aren't I?

 

Aren't we all, to some extent?  

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28 by Roberta

[capybara]

Several RB ballerinas ‘advertise’ dancewear, usually with an acknowledgement. At the rate some do that their wardrobes/dressing rooms must be very full.

 

A couple of years ago the number of ‘followers’ for a male RB dancer appeared to jump by over 100k overnight!!!!! Those must’ve been paid for surely? Presumably the purpose was to boost his profile for use by his agent.

 

And the entry of agents into the ballet scene (a relatively new phenomenon) is a whole other dimension where promoting ballet is concerned.