How to promote ballet

[Fonty]

1 hour ago, FionaM said:

Apparently the influencer has had a mountain of negative feedback from professional dancers.  

 

Really?  Why?  I thought the photos were rather joyous and fun, why would professional dancers be negative about it?  Is there a law that says only they can wear a tutu, unless the individual is under the age of 10?  I am sorry to have to say it, but some of the comments on here seem to back up the idea that the usual audience in the ROH are a bit stuffy and boring.  

With regard to influencers, I am slightly wary of people who are....well, influenced by them.  A lot of what they write seems to be about acquiring stuff that nobody actually needs.  But in this instance, I think the photos are great.  

[Emeralds]

7 hours ago, JNC said:

 

I’ve seen quite a few instagram posts recently by ROH and also someone else (a younger “influencer”) promoting visiting ROH as they received tickets to see Swan Lake (it’s unclear whether the tickets were gratis or not but the wording and “thanks” and obligatory social media posting jointly indicates they were).

From the example of the young woman in the white tutu I have to say it doesn't sound like she and her pal (also in a tutu) got their tickets for free. I know ROH/RB do have a stash of free tickets for company members eg dancers' family members coming to see a debut, an artist's grandparents who might have travelled to see them dance for the first time etc etc. Sometimes it's restricted view or Amphitheatre seats that haven't sold, for a dancer in a leading role it might be front row seats. I suppose if one night nobody has asked for free tickets they might give one or two away.

 

My guess is that for shows that bring home the bacon like Swan Lake they won't give away tickets to people like this (i can bet they get over a thousand  begging requests for free tickets to sell out shows of opera and ballet a week from people pretending to be celebrities or influencers) but for mixed bills that aren't sold out and tickets are cheaper, sure, why not (they should have given out more during Corybantic Games and the Barrie Kosky Carmen!)

 

The "thanks" is quite a general phrase and sounds like someone might say in a general sense even though the tickets are fully paid up. 

 

I just looked at the photos and the honest thing to say is that their outfits look ridiculous- like 20 to 30 year olds wearing a 6 year old's dressing up gear, or trying to look like they are in a pop music video but aren't. The one positive thing I can say is they obviously have a lot of guts, not being afraid of being laughed or smirked at. Perhaps they changed in the toilets before most of the real audience arrived. 

 

You can see there's a photo of her arm in the cardie while holding her Swan Lake programme but it has no view of her tutu. If she was still wearing it she would have posed with the programme in front of her tutu.

 

You can see that there are no photos of them sitting in the filled auditorium in the tutus - all the tutu photos are in a strangely empty and bright ROH: probably the afternoon.

 

Perhaps the thanks was for allowing them to prance about for the photo taking in the afternoon when the theatre might still be closed or only just opened. During any real Swan Lake performance, even when you're very early, it's incredibly congested and you will be photobombed all the time.

 

So I really wouldn't worry too much about free tickets flying out through the door. On the other hand, if it does help balance things, have a look at the list of sponsors in the Swan Lake production - these individuals and companies have donated tens of thousands of pounds or more to the ROH for the production or this run, and even if the donors were given a free pair of Grand Tier tickets for every Swan Lake show, that's nowhere near how much they've paid in donations. Without donations, the ticket price for each seat would be triple to quadruple what we actually have to pay.

 

The Young ROH scheme is also sponsored by donors, not by ticket buyers or taxpayers.

Edited March 23 by Emeralds

[alison]

The ROH, as ever, is caught between a rock and a hard place.  It has to position itself as a glamorous and exclusive venue while at the same time being accessible.  Not an easy thing to do.  Unfortunately - and probably as a result of the current financial climate - it seems to be leaning too far towards exclusive at present.

[Emeralds]

1 hour ago, FionaM said:

Apparently the influencer has had a mountain of negative feedback from professional dancers.  

You know what they say, FionaM- all publicity is good publicity! The account holder is thrilled to get all reactions! (Especially if negative feedback triggers a wave of "aww, poor thing!" "don't mind the criticism" reactions as well.......) 

[alison]

BTW, I appreciated the "not a frat party" comment  

 

Influencers do get a lot of stuff given them for free.  Actually, I'd have thought that a 3-figure stalls ticket for Swan Lake would actually represent a good investment in terms of returns.  Certainly more than actually paying someone to do some serious publicity.

 

As for Different Drummer not being "fun", I'd say that to judge by the audience reaction it was particularly the younger audience members who appreciated it.

[Roberta]

I actually thought the photos were meant to be fun and ironic and I laughed when I saw them. Not what I was expecting. If I'd seen the pair of them at the theatre it would have cheered me no end. 

 

I also note she had tagged #YoungROH and given the obvious youth of many sitting in the audience behind her photos, in the far from cheap seats, was this some sort of promo? Discounted tickets for students & Young ROH to encourage attendance in future?

 

 

 

 

[Roberta]

4 minutes ago, alison said:

As for Different Drummer not being "fun", I'd say that to judge by the audience reaction it was particularly the younger audience members who appreciated it

 

 

Yes but it's not fun is it? Ask @zxDaveM about THAT!

 

I'm pleased that many younger people appreciated it. 

[FionaM]

9 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

You know what they say, FionaM- all publicity is good publicity! The account holder is thrilled to get all reactions! (Especially if negative feedback triggers a wave of "aww, poor thing!" "don't mind the criticism" reactions as well.......) 

indeed 😂😂😂

[Emeralds]

5 minutes ago, Roberta said:

I actually thought the photos were meant to be fun and ironic and I laughed when I saw them. Not what I was expecting. If I'd seen the pair of them at the theatre it would have cheered me no end. 

 

I also note she had tagged #YoungROH and given the obvious youth of many sitting in the audience behind her photos, in the far from cheap seats, was this some sort of promo? Discounted tickets for students & Young ROH to encourage attendance in future?

 

 

 

 

She does look young enough to have qualified for Young ROH fair and square. They could well have been attending the Swan Lake performance that is only for Young ROH and off limits to the general public. That too is subsidised by the donors. 

[TSR101]

1 hour ago, Emeralds said:

ROH/RB do have a stash of free tickets for company members eg dancers' family members coming to see a debut, an artist's grandparents who might have travelled to see them dance for the first time etc etc.

 

Is this actually true? I sat near a couple there to see their daughter debut and they had had to pay for tickets, they weren't given them, everyone around them thought that was poor form from the RB!

[Emeralds]

Just now, TSR101 said:

 

Is this actually true? I sat near a couple there to see their daughter debut and they had had to pay for tickets, they weren't given them, everyone around them thought that was poor form from the RB!

Yes, I've had several relatives tell me they got comped (complimentary tickets) and a relative of one artist (corps de ballet) couldn't come and she was allowed to give it to a friend- this friend told me. Both were restricted view but not for sold out shows (they were mixed bills). It may be that for Swan Lake, Nutcracker and popular classics you have to pay- one dancer said her mother bought her ticket online to see her make her ROH debut (Nutcracker). So comps aren't guaranteed (especially if there are a lot of debuts!) but there is a stash for some ballets that don't sell out.

[art_enthusiast]

9 hours ago, Tango Dancer said:

 

Yes I enjoy getting dressed up sometimes for an evening at the ballet / theatre sometimes.  I mean sometimes I go straight from work in my work clothes (suit or trousers and a smart top) but if I am staying overnight or coming directly from home it's quite nice to dress up a bit.  

 

I turn up in whatever clothes I already have on, basically one step up from my pyjamas as I mostly work from home, and I really don't care. Because I know that no one's there to see me, we're all there to see the very talented dancers on the stage and that's it.

 

I am young and I was at the young ROH night for Swan Lake. (There's only one young ROH ballet night for this whole season and otherwise young ROH tickets are severely limited/practically non existent this year, so I wouldn't get too upset about it.)

 

I like the atmosphere of having a lot of young people under one roof, especially as the ROH audience tends to skew older particularly in recent years, cost of living crisis etc, it's easier for older people to afford tickets as they're not as impacted by unaffordable housing, bizarre job market, post Covid recession and what have you. Also younger people are less likely to have seen Swan Lake before and they deserve the chance to see it at least once.

 

However in some respects I wish the scheme could be means tested. I understand that this performance was for young ROH and also invited attendees, which could include young rich influencers who could probably afford full price.

 

I also don't wish to sound offensive, but there are many rich young students from predominantly Asian backgrounds who tend to flaunt their designer clothes around London and the ROH, and I don't think this scheme should be directed towards people like that. I personally do not come from a rich background and have paid full price for most ROH performances this year (which resulted in seeing less of them obviously, but I would have hated to miss out on works such as Manon, which I had never seen before this year).

[San Perregrino]

5 hours ago, Roberta said:

why not a sparkly tutu and fluffy legwarmers to the ROH? 

Until now I’ve been too anxious about how I might be received if I wore my tutu to ROH. Perhaps now I will do so knowing that someone has boldly gone before me.

Edited March 23 by San Perregrino

[Emeralds]

1 hour ago, art_enthusiast said:

 

I turn up in whatever clothes I already have on, basically one step up from my pyjamas as I mostly work from home, and I really don't care. Because I know that no one's there to see me, we're all there to see the very talented dancers on the stage and that's it.

 

I am young and I was at the young ROH night for Swan Lake. (There's only one young ROH ballet night for this whole season and otherwise young ROH tickets are severely limited/practically non existent this year, so I wouldn't get too upset about it.)

 

I like the atmosphere of having a lot of young people under one roof, especially as the ROH audience tends to skew older particularly in recent years, cost of living crisis etc, it's easier for older people to afford tickets as they're not as impacted by unaffordable housing, bizarre job market, post Covid recession and what have you. Also younger people are less likely to have seen Swan Lake before and they deserve the chance to see it at least once.

 

However in some respects I wish the scheme could be means tested. I understand that this performance was for young ROH and also invited attendees, which could include young rich influencers who could probably afford full price.

 

I also don't wish to sound offensive, but there are many rich young students from predominantly Asian backgrounds who tend to flaunt their designer clothes around London and the ROH, and I don't think this scheme should be directed towards people like that. I personally do not come from a rich background and have paid full price for most ROH performances this year (which resulted in seeing less of them obviously, but I would have hated to miss out on works such as Manon, which I had never seen before this year).

I think the conditions of the Young ROH scheme were stipulated by the donors and not by ROH. ROH used to have a different scheme requiring university, school or sixth form ID meaning that if you were a 31 year old PhD student you could still qualify. 

 

But then again that scheme still can't discriminate against what I think we can all agree is "needy" or "deserving" versus "ok, you're loaded enough to buy 10 seated tickets at full price, let alone one". A rich student from a billionaire family is still eligible, while a 20 year old newly qualified nursery worker or carer for the elderly on a low wage would not. However under Young ROH both would. 

 

We have discussed this issue of foreign born youth from affluent backgrounds before but how do you tell apart deserving youth and those who aren't? Passports? There are many young people born and brought up in Britain who are not well off, have parents who are in full time work, who are not legally allowed a British passport until they are over 20 and have paid at least £2,000 or more in legal fees...so they simply don't have one until they've earned enough and saved up enough. Under Young ROH or the old student scheme they would qualify without having to show anything, and I think all would agree they are deserving. 

 

There are also a huge number of young people of the background you describe who are British passport holders or have dual citizenship of Britain and another country so they still end up getting reductions. I'm not trying to put you down - I hope you've seen enough of my posts that this isn't my thing at all- but I want to try to explain how hard it is ro "sift out", even if it is with the kindest of intentions. 

 

I do have to add that at £30 a ticket,  the Young ROH scheme is not the cheapest compared to eg Sadler's Wells where the lowest price tickets for BRB, ENB and visiting ballet companies are half that at £15 before any discounts are calculated (their Dance Pass is £10 a ticket). Yes, £30 is a huge bargain for eg Jonas Kaufmann or Bryn Terfel operas when reduced from £160 or £200 or even Swan Lake  from £175. But if you're not well off you're not thinking "wow, what a great reduction £200 to £30 is", but rather "I only have £10 for a night out this month so I'm not blowing £30 when I still have to pay food and phone bills."

 

I have also wondered why the scheme doesn't do discount rates like some theatres in the West End or around the world eg 25% or 30% off the middle or lower range prices only, which would make less of a loss for whoever is funding it yet is still affordable. But again, it's the donors who stipulate the conditions so perhaps they would rather just have a block of x number of tickets where they know how much they are sponsoring, and once they're gone there will be no more, rather than calculating how many varying amounts they are subsidising each month. Which is fair enough. 

 

I have a relative who qualified for Young ROH and Dance Pass and is from a family of very restricted financial means. He hasn't bought a single Young ROH ticket this year because £30 is still too high - he gets lower priced tickets in Amphitheatre or restricted view seats, but has used Dance Pass 3 times for 6 tickets now and really enjoys their offerings.  He's not bothered who has enjoyed the discounts that he hasn't- he picks the days he can go (Young ROH is not eligible at weekends) the seats he likes, and is happy with that. Orchestras offer lower prices too, without even having to sign up for anything. 

Edited March 23 by Emeralds

[Emeralds]

16 minutes ago, San Perregrino said:

Until now I’ve been too anxious about how I might be received if I wore my tutu to ROH. Perhaps now I will do so knowing that someone has boldly gone before me.

Please do!! And of course, we want photos. 

[alison]

Just make sure it's not when you're standing - the Stalls Circle is cramped enough at times as it is!

 

Talking about comps, something I'd heard recently rather suggested that they were generally a thing of the past, certainly for the sort of programmes which would be expected to sell out.

[Jan McNulty]

8 hours ago, alison said:

Just make sure it's not when you're standing - the Stalls Circle is cramped enough at times as it is!

 

Talking about comps, something I'd heard recently rather suggested that they were generally a thing of the past, certainly for the sort of programmes which would be expected to sell out.

 

 

I don't think it's unusual for any company to offer comps to company members for performances that are not selling hugely well but definitely not if they are.

[LACAD]

Just thought I’d chime into this topic as someone from “Gen Z”.

 

Though I definitely agree that the opera house should be more accessible price-wise, that ballet is more than the Tchaikovsky classics, and that one doesn’t need to be dressed to the nines to see a ballet, this is the trend among many younger people who are enticed by the glamour of ballet.
 

Interestingly in times of recession and financial hardship there is a noted phenomenon where brash and bright pop music, branded fashion and cosmetic brands, and escapist activities (theatre/cinema/concert going) become more popular. And accordingly it seems the opera house — for a while now, as I’ve seen on my own social media feed — is trying to market themselves as a glamorous night out. 
 

I am conscious of a pang of elitism in some of my fellow young balletomanes’ attitudes towards the art; it can only be appreciated by connoisseurs, it would preferably be classical in nature, one must be dressed the part to attend, one must expect to pay high prices.
 

I feel this is exacerbated by the recent ‘ballet-core’ fashion trend. And while there are definitely elitist roots in the art form, I find it a shame to reinforce these stereotypes. Especially considering other countries in Europe find success with young audiences in marketing as ‘glamorous’ but also forward thinking and accessible institutions — take the Dutch National Ballet’s young patron’s circle, the Paris Opera selling very cheap tickets for young audiences at previews. 
 

To end my long-winded meditation on the matter, I do believe this is a question of financial survival. The opera house needs young audiences to ensure future financial security. We are well past a time where government funding would grant cheaper tickets and more accessibility programmes, so it’s all about selling the experience. And that may well mean having to market the house as a place of glamour and fantasy (tutu included). 

[DVDfan]

For myself, I would happily go to my local theatre if they would start putting on proper plays again, but I would never go to a live ballet performance for fear of spoiling someone's enjoyment of the performance.

[Roberta]

8 hours ago, LACAD said:

I do believe this is a question of financial survival. The opera house needs young audiences to ensure future financial security. We are well past a time where government funding would grant cheaper tickets and more accessibility programmes, so it’s all about selling the experience. And that may well mean having to market the house as a place of glamour and fantasy (tutu included). 

 

Exactly this.  Sadly, huge subsidies are a thing of the past and survival is the issue. Ask Northern Ballet about that, and having to ditch the orchestra. 

 

Who knows, evenings of dressing up for the audience  just like Rocky Horror Show could be the way ahead...  Birmingham Royal Ballet has a very diverse publicity programme, I suspect Carlos Acosta would be up for it.  A revival of the Black Sabbath ballet, come dressed accordingly?

 

The question which began this thread is an important one.  Without marketing, audiences will dwindle. How to market is the question. 

 

Edited to add this link, in case anyone missed out on ballet-core.  Possibly not for 2024, though who knows?  https://www.instyle.com/fashion/clothing/balletcore-trend

Edited March 25 by Roberta

[LinMM]

I think it would be okay to have certain performances designated occasionally to the audience for dressing up ..more the fantasy dressing up..as one sees for certain ABBA shows ….but not promoted for EVERY performance. 
The other sort of dressing up..posh frocks etc….can be entirely a matter of choice. 
In the days when you queued for hours for tickets and mostly outside the building you were obviously not going to be wearing your posh frock!! 
But I did dress up more on occasions when had a ticket already ..in my 20’s and 30’s because I dressed up more when going out in general back then…you tend to more when you have the looks and figure lol! 
However I had a long gap when didn’t go to ROH at all (or to the theatre much in general) and when I started going again I was not in the habit of dressing up that much to go out and so didnt (and  still don’t) to the ROH. 
I don’t mind at all if other people do and want to look glamorous I quite enjoy looking at other peoples posh frocks etc……as long as it’s not expected of everybody. 

[Jan McNulty]

In my early days of ballet watching I was so naive that I though mere mortals couldn't go to Covent Garden!

 

I do remember doing a day trip to see a matinee of Manon and the weather forecast was for heavy snow.  A friend suggested I took a basic overnight kit just in case and to dress for the weather.  It was one of the first times I had been in the stalls.  I was dressed in jeans and a warm sweater.  I can remember several people in what was the stalls bar at the back tutting me.  It was off-putting to say the least!

 

[LinMM]

You used to get this tutting years back ….after queuing for hours  for a standing ticket because you were standing in Stalls Circle and back in early 70’s people did tend to dress up more in Stalls and Dress Circle etc so our “street clothes” were not appreciated! 
I often had a carrier bag with me and remember one night a very dressed up member (including jewels) saying as passing “well she’s even brought her shopping with her” 

Edited March 25 by LinMM

[Fonty]

Well, you get snobs and rude people everywhere, but I can honestly say I have never felt that anyone was sneering at me for what I was wearing.  Generally I would say Londoners are rather a scruffy bunch.  I've noticed before than when I visit friends up north, people tend to dress much more smartly for a night out.  However, dress standards in general have become more and more casual.  I remember in one of my first jobs, men had to wear a suit and tie, and women were not allowed to wear trousers.  And I am not that ancient, either. 

 

I do tend to put on something I don't wear on a day to day basis, because I take the view that if I don't wear these clothes for such an occasion when else will I wear them? But I wouldn't call myself dressed up, exactly.   Having said that, I think it is lovely to see women wearing what my mother would have called a posh frock.  But they are in the minority.  

[Roberta]

I make no comment. 

 

What to wear to the ballet. A style guide.   😔🩰  https://www.instyle.com/what-to-wear-to-the-ballet-8418548

 

 

[Tango Dancer]

5 hours ago, Fonty said:

I do tend to put on something I don't wear on a day to day basis, because I take the view that if I don't wear these clothes for such an occasion when else will I wear them? But I wouldn't call myself dressed up, exactly.   Having said that, I think it is lovely to see women wearing what my mother would have called a posh frock.  But they are in the minority.  

 

This is my view.  I like a chance to dress up in something pretty if I can and enjoy a chance to wear nice clothes and makeup.  

[Emeralds]

Come to think of it, I do remember people in the 1990s still dressing up for ROH if they had seats in the stalls, grand tier or stalls circle. Unfortunately with ticket prices what they are now, something has to give.....no more coiture and jewels at the ballet for everyone! (I remember a time when the highest priced seat in the whole ROH for a performance of Ondine was £45! (Yes, there's Inflation, but that wasn't 1970 or 1980 - that was December 2000). 

Edited March 25 by Emeralds

[Birdy]

For some preview shows, of both opera and ballet, Dutch National will make the tickets only available to ages 16-35 and charge €10. They always sell out. I don’t know if they have a way to track how many attendees go on the attend regularly priced productions in the future, but it seems to me a great way to expose younger people to ballet and opera. It’s also a great way for them to meet other people who are interested in the arts. 

[Fonty]

On 25/03/2024 at 18:56, Emeralds said:

Come to think of it, I do remember people in the 1990s still dressing up for ROH if they had seats in the stalls, grand tier or stalls circle. Unfortunately with ticket prices what they are now, something has to give.....no more coiture and jewels at the ballet for everyone! (I remember a time when the highest priced seat in the whole ROH for a performance of Ondine was £45! (Yes, there's Inflation, but that wasn't 1970 or 1980 - that was December 2000). 

 

But surely one keeps one's diamonds and pearls for life, and one simply gets the maid to polish them occasionally?  And if Princess Anne can go out in a couture dress that's 40 years old, then surely the rest of us can too?  

[alison]

On 25/03/2024 at 18:56, Emeralds said:

(I remember a time when the highest priced seat in the whole ROH for a performance of Ondine was £45! (Yes, there's Inflation, but that wasn't 1970 or 1980 - that was December 2000). 

 

I can beat you on that: £33 for the 1989 run (and £10 for the standbys - my first).

[JNC]

Young ROH used to be £10 tickets in the amphi for select evenings designed as “Young ROH performances” back in my day. Granted this was never Swan Lake but rather a triple bill and usually only twice a year. In addition if certain productions didn’t sell out you would receive an email 24 or so hours before a performance with an offer to purchase tickets for £10 (I can’t remember exactly but sense this was also limited to amphi but did mean I saw La Boheme and something else I wouldn’t have seen otherwise for a fair price). 
 

I don’t know if the scheme is the same now but all £30 rather than £10 and it does appear to include more “popular” shows like Swan Lake now when it didn’t ever for me. 
 

I think it’s a great initiative, yes there will be some certainly who can afford to pay full price but you can’t realistically means test these things so just hope it’s promoted well to those who are deserving so they’re at least aware of it and then hope for the best!

 

I do agree £30 feels a lot, obviously relatively to SL front amphi seats now it’s a bargain but that’s what I used to budget for my performances roughly anyway and I was on a (not much above) average wage at the time so for those struggling £30 won’t do it, but then again you can’t cater to everyone unless you make it totally free (and even then there would be barriers on transportation costs etc for some). In a similar time to when I was young ROH theatres often did under 25 or 30s tickets for around £10 so back then ROH was comparable. Not sure what theatres charge now but yes Sadlers Wells dance pass is up to 30 and £10 - but tickets are not available for all SW shows and are much more limited in number (I’d guess approx 30 per performance?) whereas if ROH have a whole amphitheatre even if it’s not for every performance arguably they have broader coverage. 

[Geoff]

Might I shift the focus of the discussion slightly? Sticking with how to appeal to younger audiences, has there been a change of policy at the ROH recently with regard to bringing in one’s own food?

 

Just had a message from a couple of young people, happily enjoying the MacMillan triple bill from seats they can just about afford on a budget, and (as they have before) sharing something from a Pret A Manger bag in the Amphi bar. They are not (yet?) superfans (ie going more than once a week) but one certainly goes more than once a month and so knows the rules. Or used to know the rules.

 

Tonight he writes that nearly everywhere was “reserved” and that there are now signs saying “We request that only food and drink purchased from one of our bars or cafe may be consumed at this table”. Leaving aside the sadly rather typically ROH clumsy choice of the word “consumed”, how long has this been the way the Amphi bar is run?
 

Apparently the outdoor section of the Piazza terrace is still free for one’s own food and drink. But in any case these two young people were told off by staff, allowed I suppose as the rules have obviously tightened up, but this does not signal much of a welcome when people in their twenties need to be careful of the difference in cost between overpriced ROH sandwiches and what they can bring with them. 
 

What do people think? Will this kind of staff behaviour damage the chances of building the future long term audience - or is the short term profitability of bar sandwiches what matters most at the moment?

 

Edited March 27 by Geoff

[Lizbie1]

I'd suggest that the "rules" haven't changed and their understanding of them was imperfect.

 

It does seem a bit heavy handed but I've always taken it as read that you should only use the tables if you have bought food and drink there. If I'm eating something I bought elsewhere I'll just perch on a chair or bench that doesn't have a table - it's perfectly doable. Tables are in quite short supply at ROH and are clearly positioned so as to be associated with the bars and café - it seems reasonable that people who've bought from them take precedence over those who haven't.

Edited March 27 by Lizbie1