Post-transmission: BBC Panorama documentary/investigation into vocational schools

[Ondine]

I can't at all understand how anyone can teach at these 'elite' schools and not feel joy in their hearts being in daily contact with such bright, talented, motivated young people,  enjoy getting to know them each year and feeling a sense of responsibility to draw out their varied and various talents and make progress. I can't comprehend anyone not wanting to do their best for all of them. 

 

We know some won't become company members, but not to have a plan B to suggest for those who won't is deeply concerning.

 

 

[Out-the-other-side]

46 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

The list I provided was some of what my dd personally experienced. I can't put the rest as it is too identifying. 

 

More from us…(Elmhurst first hand experience) 

- preferential treatment/casting towards students with sponsors

- Casting on the basis of costume size 

- inappropriate behaviour from invited choreographers (sexual language, homophobic comments, remarks about weight - taking students out of the piece if they dared to complain)

- Being told by the AD that a hearing loss ‘isn’t a problem till it’s a problem.’

- teachers being told about said hearing loss and how they can help (please look at them when speaking, try not to give too many corrections to them individually whilst piano is playing etc) and blatantly ignoring it - then screaming at them for ‘not listening’

- houseparents handing out excessive punishments and making judgements about the students’ moral characters 

- an AD who had no idea of a students strengths and weaknesses despite leading their appraisals for 8 years 

I do have to say though that for us the health and well being care we received both following an eating disorder and a subsequent significant injury was exceptional. 
I am incredibly sad that this huge cloud is hanging over the whole of the artistic team when there are some amazing, nurturing, compassionate and dedicated dance teachers there too - the one who was always on the end of the phone; the one who cried genuine tears over the injury; the one who first referred to them as women and not girls thus validating the bodies that in the previous year they had learned to be ashamed of; the one who spent time after class helping work on corrections; the ones who never ever said an unkind word. Meanwhile, those accused have moved on to teach elsewhere and are not even in the spotlight that they created. 

- 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Out-the-other-side

[Velvet]

4 hours ago, Pups_mum said:

There are, without doubt, similarities in sport, though in my personal experience, I do believe the 2 sports that I am involved in are now taking Safeguarding and the welfare of young people far more seriously than in the past. And it is a difficult line to walk because any young athlete/musician/artist etc does have to be committed and work very hard and you can't get away from that. But i do believe there are ways to achieve that without inflicting  the type of damage we're talking about here. 

But I think there are 2 things that set dance apart that make it a particularly toxic environment, even more so than sport.

1) Regulation. Or rather lack of. Sports all have a national regulatory body with, in my experience at least, increasing openness and accountability. My son has been playing his sport at a fairly high level this year and the process for selection for the programme is on is dowloadable from the national body website, along with clear information about what will be expected of him, and us, and what we can expect from them. Plus links to their Safeguarding and complaints policies, instructions of what to do if you're worried or unhappy and so on. Now I haven't had to test what would happen if I did complain and I guess it's possibly all just for show, but I don't get that feeling, and at least their is a clearly defined process and someone overseeing standards etc. Of course there will still be bad people in any organisation and unsuitable coaches etc, but it feels very different to the dance world where there is basically no accountability, no effective means of independent review or whistleblowing and everything is shrouded in secrecy.

2) Boarding. Very little elite junior sports training happens in a residential setting, at least until post 16 or post 18, but it's the default setting in ballet. There is mountains of evidence of the potential harm that "normal" boarding schools can cause children, particularly at a young age. So here we have the double whammy of the downsides of boarding plus the downsides of elite training and I suspect the harm is even more than the sum of the parts. 

I read an interesting article some years ago - I can't remember where unfortunately- on the general topic of well being in teenagers. It basically said that the typical young person's life has 3 main "domains" - home, school and hobbies. The author believed that if relationships were good and the young person was happy in all 3 domains obviously that is best, but if one is difficult they can still thrive if there is support in the other 2 eg a child being bullied at school is less likely to be adversely affected in the long term if they have a happy home life and supportive friends and adults in say a sports team or youth club. But the poorer the quality of support in the other 2, the greater harm the toxic domain can do. That makes a certain amount of sense to me, and goes some way to explaining just why residential training can  be so damaging. For big chunks of the year all 3 domains are the same place and there is no escape. With the exception of music schools, which of course have also come in for criticism, I can't think of any circumstances in this country where this happens to this degree. 

I'm not sure what the answer is to be honest, but the older I get the more convinced I am that full time residential training from 11 is harmful to most children. 

You make really good points here which I agree with. My other experience than ballet is of hockey which my son has played at national level. Very tough again going up the ladder through the selection process and kids axed along the way in the selection process. But somehow it does feel different. You are either good enough and match the standard of the other kids or not. In ballet there is on top of that process the whole area of aesthetics which in turn bring into the equation subjectivity. It is a mine field from the get go. 
 

I have no argument with the various schools end goal of producing the best set of dancers they possibly can each year. Dancers who can go out and get jobs which is ultimately the aim. My gripe is how they go about achieving it. 
 

In hockey for my son to get faster, lower on the ball, stronger were all achievable targets. 
 

In ballet for a boy to be taller is impossible and a girl less than her natural body weight is unhealthy. They all work so hard physically and sweat buckets so burn off calories at a vast rate. The recommended calorie intake for a dancer is high. It’s heart breaking to know that students are starving themselves to attempt “pleasing their teachers”. 
 

There just has to be a better way of ballet schools producing first class dancers without leaving the carnage of vulnerably aged students sense of self in shreds! 
 

Here endeth todays sermon 😉
 

 

[Janeparent]

11 minutes ago, Out-the-other-side said:

More from us…(Elmhurst first hand experience) 

- preferential treatment/casting towards students with sponsors

- Casting on the basis of costume size 

- inappropriate behaviour from invited choreographers (sexual language, homophobic comments, remarks about weight - taking students out of the piece if they dared to complain)

- Being told by the AD that a hearing loss ‘isn’t a problem till it’s a problem.’

- teachers being told about said hearing loss and how they can help (please look at them when speaking, try not to give too many corrections to them individually whilst piano is playing etc) and blatantly ignoring it - then screaming at them for ‘not listening’

- houseparents handing out excessive punishments and making judgements about the students’ moral characters 

- an AD who had no idea of a students strengths and weaknesses despite leading their appraisals for 8 years 

I do have to say though that for us the health and well being care we received both following an eating disorder and a subsequent significant injury was exceptional. 
I am incredibly sad that this huge cloud is hanging over the whole of the artistic team when there are some amazing, nurturing, compassionate and dedicated dance teachers there too - the one who was always on the end of the phone; the one who cried genuine tears over the injury; the one who first referred to them as women and not girls thus validating the bodies that in the previous year they had learned to be ashamed of; the one who spent time after class helping work on corrections; the ones who never ever said an unkind word. Meanwhile, those accused have moved on to teach elsewhere and are not even in the spotlight that they created. 

- 

 

Not all of them have moved on. The problem is that however good the official policies are, however well-intentioned the principal is (and she is, at Elmhurst, in my opinion, based on our experience), if the day to day ballet teaching is not monitored or corrected then the actual implementation of any policies is left completely to chance, dependent on the whims of individual teachers.

[along for the ride mum]

1 minute ago, Janeparent said:

Not all of them have moved on. The problem is that however good the official policies are, however well-intentioned the principal is (and she is, at Elmhurst, in my opinion, based on our experience), if the day to day ballet teaching is not monitored or corrected then the actual implementation of any policies is left completely to chance, dependent on the whims of individual teachers.

And let’s not forget that it isn’t only the artistic staff who need to be implementing policies and regulating their own professional behaviour. The pastoral/ boarding staff must also be held to account. No amount of talking about your stringent safeguarding policies actually means they are being effectively implemented!! 
 

in the interest of balance and fairness, in our experience there were some excellent academic staff who cared deeply and went above and beyond.  Sadly, that went only so far towards mitigating the serious failings elsewhere the damage was too deep and too wide 

[Jewel]

53 minutes ago, Sim said:

Do these ballet schools have parent governors like other schools do?  If not, why not?

I can only speak for my child’s school who do not have parent governers. 

[Anna C]

49 minutes ago, Sim said:

Do these ballet schools have parent governors like other schools do?  If not, why not?

For some “schools”, probably because they’re actually businesses, owned by one or two company directors, who aren’t answerable to anyone.  

[Out-the-other-side]

19 minutes ago, Janeparent said:

Not all of them have moved on. The problem is that however good the official policies are, however well-intentioned the principal is (and she is, at Elmhurst, in my opinion, based on our experience), if the day to day ballet teaching is not monitored or corrected then the actual implementation of any policies is left completely to chance, dependent on the whims of individual teachers.

Sorry I should have clarified - those referenced in the documentary no longer teach at the school (but do elsewhere which is one of my biggest issues) 

[taxi4ballet]

20 minutes ago, along for the ride mum said:

And let’s not forget that it isn’t only the artistic staff who need to be implementing policies and regulating their own professional behaviour. The pastoral/ boarding staff must also be held to account. No amount of talking about your stringent safeguarding policies actually means they are being effectively implemented!! 

In dd's case, one element was a monumental administrative cock-up which didn't come to light for over a year, by which time it had caused irreparable damage.

[capybara]

Does the Charity Commission have a role here in ensuring compliance in practice with an organisation's charitable goals? The CC certainly stepped in quickly when certain other prominent charities were being accused of malpractice.

 

 

[glowlight]

Excellent point @capybara. The Charity Commission Website list several scenarios in which you can raise a complaint with them. One of these is 'serious harm to the people the charity helps or other people who come into contact with the charity through its work'.

https://forms.charitycommission.gov.uk/Raising-Concerns/

[Ondine]

I don't think OFSTED or King Charles should at this time actually be commenting TBH.   I'm not sure that the DCMS operates in such a manner as to knee jerk react with public statements to a BBC programme without further investigation / consideration.

 

This is the lawyer handling some cases against the schools. I don't think a Twitter campaign such as this is the way ahead, but lawyers are always keen to drum up business I suppose.

 

 

 

 

 

[Janeparent]

48 minutes ago, along for the ride mum said:

And let’s not forget that it isn’t only the artistic staff who need to be implementing policies and regulating their own professional behaviour. The pastoral/ boarding staff must also be held to account. No amount of talking about your stringent safeguarding policies actually means they are being effectively implemented!! 
 

in the interest of balance and fairness, in our experience there were some excellent academic staff who cared deeply and went above and beyond.  Sadly, that went only so far towards mitigating the serious failings elsewhere the damage was too deep and too wide 

I totally agree with both of these points. Our daughter received far better pastoral care from some lovely academic staff than from the “pastoral staff”. 

[taxi4ballet]

9 minutes ago, Ondine said:

I don't think OFSTED or King Charles should at this time actually be commenting TBH.   I'm not sure that the DCMS operates in such a manner as to knee jerk react with public statements to a BBC programme without further investigation / consideration.

 

This is the lawyer handling some cases against the schools. I don't think a Twitter campaign such as this is the way ahead, but lawyers are always keen to drum up business I suppose.

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't expect any response at all from the King, who is after all only a figurehead (although I suspect that someone from the palace has been seconded to take a look), nor from OFSTED as yet, who would not want to be going off half-cocked without taking a good rummage through their records first.

[Out-the-other-side]

5 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

I wouldn't expect any response at all from the King, who is after all only a figurehead (although I suspect that someone from the palace has been seconded to take a look), nor from OFSTED as yet, who would not want to be going off half-cocked without taking a good rummage through their records first.

The carefully curated records…

[Ondine]

 

If there are legal cases going forward it would be very foolish to pre judge and possiblty prejudice those.

 

A reminder, from 2021.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58982951

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Ondine

[Peanut68]

Is it even OFSTED for private schools? 

[Ondine]

3 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

Is it even OFSTED for private schools? 

Ofsted inspects about half of all independent schools in England, which we refer to as 'non-association' independent schools. The rest of the schools belong to independent school associations and are inspected by the Independent Schools Inspectorate, which has been approved by the DfE.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1179066/Inspecting_non-association_independent_schools_parent_leaflet.pdf

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Ondine

[capybara]

Please don’t let us lose sight of the Charity Commission option. A complaint needs to be lodged by someone who can demonstrate that they have complained to the organisation first. But there are many parents on here who could do that.

 

Business-seeking lawyers cannot be (allowed to be) the only option here.

 

(The reports which RichardLH posted on this thread earlier are from the ISC, not Ofsted.)

[Ondine]

I believe the RBS is now inspected by ISC and has been since 2014.

 

I have to say my view of the CC isn't altogether positive when making a complaint but who knows in this case and possibly worth trying if anyone has the time & inclination to make a case.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Ondine

[Peanut68]

It is the complaining to the institution first that is so often the problem… so often students & parents are too scared to do so whilst their young person is there - being taught, being housed, being cared for by the place you wish to complain about. It’s almost impossible to feel strong enough to do so & then once you’ve left it’s almost just a sigh of relief & move on & get on with your lives. Guilt that you’ve not complained enough is awful & guilt that you’ve thus given perpetrators the feeling they got away with it or indeed did nothing wrong afterall & - worse - knowing they may well continue. 
Sorry for my weaknesses

[Pas de Quatre]

30 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

Is it even OFSTED for private schools? 

It was Ofsted which lead to changes at Tring. This may be why Tring is not named in the current invitation to submit experiences/problems.

[Borzoi]

Just a word of caution to anyone outside the UK who might want to watch the episode without obtaining a VPN: I actually found a YouTube video advertised as: BBC Panorama The Dark Side of Ballet. When I clicked on it I got re-directed to a, shall we say, very offensive video. After I quickly backed out I received a "virus warning" that wanted me to click on a link to "fix" it. I quickly erased the search history and that seemed to take care of it. Think I'll just read the comments here instead!

 

 

[Ballet.Parent]

3 hours ago, Janeparent said:

I totally agree with both of these points. Our daughter received far better pastoral care from some lovely academic staff than from the “pastoral staff”. 

Same here 

[Mummy twinkle toes]

15 hours ago, Thelittleswans said:

 One good thing that might come out of this is, less children going into vocational training at 11 sparing them the abuse/bullying/body shaming. I feel this programme has highlighted my fears for my own daughter and has seriously impacted our decision making. 

I appreciate it is very difficult if you are just at the start of the journey. Keep your eyes open when looking at potential schools. All that glitters is not gold. My eldest was due to go to lower school but then dh made redundant so she didn’t go. Maybe a blessing in disguise.

She had a very good Russian teacher at home as well as RAD. She was an associate with 3 schools and a’ member of Bristol Russian Youth co. The latter were amazing for technique, knowledge and performance skills.

She attended several SIs at ‘elite’ schools.

She had a very good time at LSC on their classical ballet course and now dances with dc that attended the schools discussed. It has not all been plain sailing but she feels lucky to have come out relatively unscathed. There was an incident at one where 2 other dancers were asked to stretch her as she is petite.

I would say if you have options such as associates & youth companies then seriously consider. Several of her friends who went to the 2 lower schools discussed are no longer dancing.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Mummy twinkle toes
Typo

[Mummy twinkle toes]

11 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

I too have often wondered at the qualifications/regulatory bodies that so called school nurses belong to…. My suspicion is that independent  schools can quite likely employ anyone in the capacity of school nurse much as they can employ anyone as a teacher. No qualifications are legally needed though of course one expects that they would necessarily have them & that schools would only employ suitably qualified/registered staff in any capacity. I certainly found at one school a great many nurses seem to be from overseas…. Do the qualifications match up I wonder? Would there be any redress/oversight available from UK nursing bodies for these staff? I’m told someone is a nurse & I believe that’s what they are…. Based on my child’s experiences I seriously question the suitability of sone of these staff & time again I think I would’ve asked a few more questions of the school on the suitability if these people in role. They wield much power (eg. could sign you off dance) & act under a veil of ‘student confidentiality’ (well - when it suits them…) & actually I felt there were sone slightly on a power trip to create drama/add to their own self importance/ ruin kids lives… It felt gossipy, totally inappropriate, no real ‘nurse’ care & no accountability save to the senior leadership team…. And therein lies ever more questionable behaviours & practises…. 

The term ‘school nurse’ can be deceiving as some schools employ unqualified people and give them that name. ‘Nurse’ unfortunately is not protected in law whereas registered nurse is. Elmhurst definitely advertised for Registered Mental Health nurses so yes they would need to be registered with the NMC. The pay was lower than NHS though so I did wonder who would apply.

[Bellaboo]

On 12/09/2023 at 11:26, Ballet_novice said:

Here we are presented with 4 cases and make concluding remarks. How about the thousands of others with different experiences 

There are many more experiences recorded on here for a start

[Anon2]

4 minutes ago, Mummy twinkle toes said:

The term ‘school nurse’ can be deceiving as some schools employ unqualified people and give them that name. ‘Nurse’ unfortunately is not protected in law whereas registered nurse is. Elmhurst definitely advertised for Registered Mental Health nurses so yes they would need to be registered with the NMC. The pay was lower than NHS though so I did wonder who would apply.

And I notice there is only a registered mental health nurse on the staff list now. 

[Bellaboo]

On 12/09/2023 at 10:17, Farawaydancer said:

This is my dd’s experience too. 

Yes the school

markets itself well, they make out they do such wonderful things but really what goes on behind the scenes? No checking up, no following through, no monitoring of teachers and senior vocational team. 

I worry younger children will accept what they see as the norm and acceptable. 
 

[Tulip]

On 12/09/2023 at 21:06, Ondine said:

 

His tweets are here, for information.

 

The schools he has listed are

 

Royal Ballet School, Elmhurst, Hammond, Young Dancers Academy,  English National Ballet, Ballet Theatre UK

 

Though of course this is no way an 'official' investigation, this is a legal firm.  Legal firms make money from litigation.

 

 

 

 

 

So anyone wishing to contact him, do please ask about fees.

Very surprised Tring isn’t up there

[Doing Dance 1]

10 hours ago, Anon2 said:

A pianist once intervened when my child was being humiliated in class by a male teacher. The pianist left the school not long after … 

I’m glad you’ve brought this up. 
Pianists see everything in these schools and should be trained to recognise and indeed report if/ when problems arise. 

[Ondine]

The lawyer is still posting on Twitter. If anyone wishes to add a school no doubt he'd listen, but again I suggest ask about fees before committing to any action.

 

However, this issue is possibly the remit of the Dept for Education not the DCMS?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mummy twinkle toes]

12 minutes ago, Doing Dance 1 said:

I’m glad you’ve brought this up. 
Pianists see everything in these schools and should be trained to recognise and indeed report if/ when problems arise. 

For us one of the pianists was the issue. My Dd was always taught to thank the pianist too but he may have misinterpreted that. He started to wait around for her and kept trying to talk to her and sit with her at break. Luckily, one of the teachers became aware and he was moved to a different class.