Royal Ballet's Giselle - Autumn 2021

[Balletfanp]

1 hour ago, Timmie said:

One thing I think I noticed in the two Giselles I saw. With Nunez/Muntagirov it was Giselle, with a joyous flick of her wrist, that threw away the daisy after the ‘he loves, he loves me not’ bit. But with Hayward/Campbell it was Albrecht. Looking at recordings it’s only ever Albrecht that throws away the flower. Did I imagine it?

When I saw Nunez and Muntagirov, it was definitely him who threw it away, with a “Well, that served it’s purpose!” air that raised a giggle in some of the audience!

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, emmarose said:

Is it something you picked up from ballet in general?

I've just never heard of it in the modern era at all, when a girl turns 18 putting their hair up in a bun.

 

No, it's nothing to do with ballet. I've never done ballet, beyond a few months as a child, & was doing very little theatregoing at the time. It's not done in the modern era. I'd say the concept ended by the 1960s and had been declining for a while before that. I got it from books written in the first half of the 20th century, which did & still do form the majority of my reading matter.

[Emeralds]

22 hours ago, Ivy Lin said:

I purchased the Royal Ballet stream with Yasmine Naghdi and Matthew Ball and have to say I was a bit disappointed with Naghdi. She danced beautifully, but I don't think she's a "natural" Giselle the way, say, Alina Cojocaru was. There's something very strong and almost queenly about her. I also didn't like that her hair was down the entire first act. 

Alina Cojocaru had her hair down throughout the first act of Giselle too. It needs to be easy to undo and fall loose when she goes mad, so that it doesn’t look like, “I’m furious with you, Albrecht, so I’m going to undo my hairpins and undo my bun now!”

[Guest oncnp]

1 hour ago, emmarose said:

 

Is it something you picked up from ballet in general?

I've just never heard of it in the modern era at all, when a girl turns 18 putting their hair up in a bun.

 

I think it depends on your definition of "modern era" It was a social convention that survived (at least) into the Edwardian era. Nothing to do with ballet. 

[emmarose]

42 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

No, it's nothing to do with ballet. I've never done ballet, beyond a few months as a child, & was doing very little theatregoing at the time. It's not done in the modern era. I'd say the concept ended by the 1960s and had been declining for a while before that. I got it from books written in the first half of the 20th century, which did & still do form the majority of my reading matter.

 

How very interesting. I'm always fascinated when people take on certain things into their daily lives, especially from their reading, I'm an avid reader myself and from when I was little a lot of what I did came from works of literature.

[art_enthusiast]

22 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

Alina Cojocaru had her hair down throughout the first act of Giselle too. It needs to be easy to undo and fall loose when she goes mad, so that it doesn’t look like, “I’m furious with you, Albrecht, so I’m going to undo my hairpins and undo my bun now!”

Yes - it has to be seamless which is difficult to achieve! I've noticed all artists portraying Berthe have been very skilled at quickly undoing the pins whilst Giselle is lying down, but it must be nerve-wracking for them.

[emmarose]

8 minutes ago, oncnp said:

 

I think it depends on your definition of "modern era" It was a social convention that survived (at least) into the Edwardian era. Nothing to do with ballet. 

 

Well, I wouldn't say the Edwardian era was in the modern era as so few people are even alive who witnessed any of it.

I was just thinking of the twenties as the era when women cut their hair short, so it wasn't standard after that decade, 30's were those pinned curls and going from the 50's my aunt had a hairdressers and will still speak about the hairstyles she created through the decades and it wasn't 'done' then really either. 

[maryrosesatonapin]

On 07/12/2021 at 00:01, Rob S said:

 it's not as if the Wilis wear white costumes

Do they not?  The dresses, and tights, looked white to me.  Maybe my eyes are failing!

[maryrosesatonapin]

On 07/12/2021 at 00:43, Ivy Lin said:

I purchased the Royal Ballet stream with Yasmine Naghdi and Matthew Ball and have to say I was a bit disappointed with Naghdi. She danced beautifully, but I don't think she's a "natural" Giselle the way, say, Alina Cojocaru was. There's something very strong and almost queenly about her. I also didn't like that her hair was down the entire first act. 

I also began watching the stream but with the moving performance from Morera/Bonelli so fresh in my mind, and further back ethereal Hayward and amazing Osipova, I found it disappointing so gave up.  I'll go back to it before time runs out.  It isn't fair to compare recordings with live performances, I tell myself.  I do agree about Cojocaru - she was just about perfect and would probably still be able to dance the role of Giselle as well as anyone could.  Remembering her dancing with Kobbold as Albrecht almost brings tears to my eyes as I write.

[art_enthusiast]

1 minute ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

I also began watching the stream but with the moving performance from Morera/Bonelli so fresh in my mind, and further back ethereal Hayward and amazing Osipova, I found it disappointing so gave up.  I'll go back to it before time runs out.  It isn't fair to compare recordings with live performances, I tell myself.  I do agree about Cojocaru - she was just about perfect and would probably still be able to dance the role of Giselle as well as anyone could.  Remembering her dancing with Kobbold as Albrecht almost brings tears to my eyes as I write.

I suppose there might be a DVD/recording of Alina Cojocaru's version somewhere?

[maryrosesatonapin]

5 minutes ago, art_enthusiast said:

I suppose there might be a DVD/recording of Alina Cojocaru's version somewhere?

Yes - I just checked and there is one on Amazon.  (Not that I like Amazon but it was quick to have a look there!)

 

[DanJL]

Yes indeed and the DVD also features Marianela Nuñez as Myrtha. 

[Borzoi]

On 07/12/2021 at 05:13, Anna C said:

 

Fully down, or half up and half down?  I’ve seen lots of Giselles with the latter, including - if I am remembering rightly - Cojocaru.

I do believe that, in some of the older clips I have seen of "Giselle", the ballerina wore her hair gathered at the nape with (probably false) banana curls in Act I. I think I have a DVD somewhere of Ferri wearing her hair this way during a performance at La Scala.

[Anna C]

1 hour ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

Do they not?  The dresses, and tights, looked white to me.  Maybe my eyes are failing!

 

I’d say the dresses are ivory? They’re definitely not bright/pure white.

Tights and pointe shoes for most of the Wilis are standard pale “ballet pink”.“Pink” ballet tights vary a lot in shade from pale peach to very pale pink, depending on make.

[Dawnstar]

15 hours ago, emmarose said:

Well, I wouldn't say the Edwardian era was in the modern era as so few people are even alive who witnessed any of it.

I was just thinking of the twenties as the era when women cut their hair short, so it wasn't standard after that decade, 30's were those pinned curls and going from the 50's my aunt had a hairdressers and will still speak about the hairstyles she created through the decades and it wasn't 'done' then really either. 

 

I think some women still did so up until the 1950s or 60s but obviously not as many from the 20s onwards because so many were shingled/bobbed.

 

On 07/12/2021 at 00:43, Ivy Lin said:

I purchased the Royal Ballet stream with Yasmine Naghdi and Matthew Ball and have to say I was a bit disappointed with Naghdi. She danced beautifully, but I don't think she's a "natural" Giselle the way, say, Alina Cojocaru was. There's something very strong and almost queenly about her. I also didn't like that her hair was down the entire first act. 

 

I've been musing on this since I read it yesterday & I think it may explain why I've really enjoyed Naghdi's performances in some roles (the Firebird & Swanhilda are the first that come to mind) but neither her Giselle nor her Juliet, well-danced though they are, have moved me in the same way that other dancers' have. I think that because she comes over as strong, in personality as well as technique, I don't find the vulnerability that I need to make me feel really upset at the characters' fates.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Dawnstar

[joe blitz]

I believe it's Giselle who throws away the flower, Albrecht picks it up and plucks out one of the petals to make it come out: He loves me.

 

I saw Erik Bruhn catch the flowers mid-air that Giselle throws up to him in Second Act. I don't think anyone else has ever managed.

[zxDaveM]

25 minutes ago, joe blitz said:

I believe it's Giselle who throws away the flower, Albrecht picks it up and plucks out one of the petals to make it come out: He loves me.

 

 

...but then tosses it over his shoulder once he has convinced Giselle he loves her, and they start to dance with joy

[LinMM]

Pink tights are a nightmare in their variation in colour in fact 😳Especially if you need XL ones. 
Im just not a typical ballet person really as I HATE pink tights and shoes with ribbons! And dislike ballet buns for hair ( sorry bun lovers) and wearing tutus etc etc. But this is definitely not typical! Most dancers including amateurs can’t wait to put a tutu on!! And see sewing ribbons onto ballet shoes as a labour of love! 
In the past ten years or so I‘ve only worn  pink tights and pink shoes with ribbons strictly for performances .....so when I’ve had to!! 
I flirted with various dance practice skirts in class for a couple of years but usually these days am happy in black/grey/ blue yoga type leggings and shoes with elastic...preferable already sewn on when bought! 

Sorry this has virtually nothing to do with Giselle but Anna C’s post about pink tights just set me off. I don’t know why I can’t love them like everyone else seems to. 

I don’t mind the Giselle dresses though.... a nice reasonable length!! And loved being a wili in the very last performance I did as an amateur dancer a couple of years ago now. 

[art_enthusiast]

3 minutes ago, LinMM said:

Pink tights are a nightmare in their variation in colour in fact 😳Especially if you need XL ones. 
Im just not a typical ballet person really as I HATE pink tights and shoes with ribbons! And dislike ballet buns for hair ( sorry bun lovers) and wearing tutus etc etc. But this is definitely not typical! Most dancers including amateurs can’t wait to put a tutu on!! And see sewing ribbons onto ballet shoes as a labour of love! 
In the past ten years or so I‘ve only worn  pink tights and pink shoes with ribbons strictly for performances .....so when I’ve had to!! 
I flirted with various dance practice skirts in class for a couple of years but usually these days am happy in black/grey/ blue yoga type leggings and shoes with elastic...preferable already sewn on when bought! 

Sorry this has virtually nothing to do with Giselle but Anna C’s post about pink tights just set me off. I don’t know why I can’t love them like everyone else seems to. 

I don’t mind the Giselle dresses though.... a nice reasonable length!! And loved being a wili in the very last performance I did as an amateur dancer a couple of years ago now. 

I'm also not a pink tutu/tights/tiara fan. But I think a lot of ballets now are veering away from that "pink and frilly" costume stereotype (except for the classics like Nutcracker and the Sleeping Beauty). That might be why I loved the Dante Project so much - I thought the costumes were very interesting, fresh and dynamic. And the costumes in other abstract ballets and Wayne McGregor works of course.

A lot of the Balanchine ballets are commonly known as "leotard" ballets - no tutus needed. Tutus are also quite hard to dance in due to their weight, I've heard.

[LinMM]

Well I don’t mind looking at tutus in an exhibition for example as some of them are beautifully made and nice to look at ...I just don’t like wearing them ...not even in the days when was more sylph like let’s say! 
I don’t mind other people wearing them either but I’m more of a Juliet dress type myself. 

[art_enthusiast]

56 minutes ago, LinMM said:

Well I don’t mind looking at tutus in an exhibition for example as some of them are beautifully made and nice to look at ...I just don’t like wearing them ...not even in the days when was more sylph like let’s say! 
I don’t mind other people wearing them either but I’m more of a Juliet dress type myself. 

Sure (love all the Juliet costumes). I also have nothing against beautiful tutus - the Raymonda Act 3 ones are amazing.

I was just observing that they have played a part in giving ballet the "frilly/feminine" reputation it has had for a while, which may have put potential dancers off, boys being teased for choosing it, etc. I used to think that ballet was reserved for a girly/feminine type myself, until I realised that it is actually extremely athletic and requires immense strength and skill, just as much as an Olympic sport. 

It's also interesting to see current artists exploring different representations of gender within this art form (men wearing tutus and pointe shoes, women being encouraged to try more male-specific choreography, etc).

I'm fascinated by gender-based variations of famous ballets, like Matthew Bourne's Swan Lake. Also I think in the ROH Late cabaret event in November, an LGBT reinterpretation of Giselle was performed? Not sure as I didn't attend, but the schedule looked very interesting.

Edited December 8, 2021 by art_enthusiast

[LinMM]

The costumes for the new ENB Raymonda look great they’ve just sent an email with lots of piccies in!! Great to discuss them at some point on another thread.  
Anyway it’s entirely my fault of course but think perhaps better get this thread back to Giselle though I suppose no other performances of this now 😢 
 

 

[Lizbie1]

13 minutes ago, LinMM said:

The costumes for the new ENB Raymonda look great they’ve just sent an email with lots of piccies in!!

 

Nothing about casting I suppose?

[LinMM]

No unfortunately nothing about casting. 
If you want to be sure of the first cast then the first night is a good one to book but I can’t make that one. I probably won’t book till after Christmas now but am thinking about the 18th or 19th as will be in London then anyway but hope casting goes up soon and hope we will even be able to go to the theatre in January....fingers crossed. 

[Lizbie1]

2 minutes ago, LinMM said:

No unfortunately nothing about casting. 
If you want to be sure of the first cast then the first night is a good one to book but I can’t make that one. I probably won’t book till after Christmas now but am thinking about the 18th or 19th as will be in London then anyway but hope casting goes up soon and hope we will even be able to go to the theatre in January....fingers crossed. 

 

Yes - no danger of not getting tickets for now (alas!) but would be nice to be able to plan!

[maryrosesatonapin]

3 hours ago, Anna C said:

 

I’d say the dresses are ivory? They’re definitely not bright/pure white.

Tights and pointe shoes for most of the Wilis are standard pale “ballet pink”.“Pink” ballet tights vary a lot in shade from pale peach to very pale pink, depending on make.

I've been under an illusion all my life then!  To me the whole outfit looked white (as you say, ivory not bright white).  I guess I'll have a long while to wait before seeing Giselle again and correcting my view

[Sim]

5 hours ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

I also began watching the stream but with the moving performance from Morera/Bonelli so fresh in my mind, and further back ethereal Hayward and amazing Osipova, I found it disappointing so gave up.  I'll go back to it before time runs out.  It isn't fair to compare recordings with live performances, I tell myself.  I do agree about Cojocaru - she was just about perfect and would probably still be able to dance the role of Giselle as well as anyone could.  Remembering her dancing with Kobbold as Albrecht almost brings tears to my eyes as I write.

I think you mean Kobborg.... 

 

[Anna C]

34 minutes ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

I've been under an illusion all my life then!  To me the whole outfit looked white (as you say, ivory not bright white).  I guess I'll have a long while to wait before seeing Giselle again and correcting my view

 

Perhaps you could watch/rewatch Act 2 of the stream? ☺️

[Anna C]

2 minutes ago, Anna C said:

 

Perhaps you could watch/rewatch Act 2 of the stream? ☺️

 

…or here is a nice clip where you can see the varying shades of ivory dresses, depending upon the lighting:  

 

[maryrosesatonapin]

Thanks Anna!  Still looks white to me.  Maybe I need a trip to the optician!

 

[maryrosesatonapin]

2 hours ago, Sim said:

I think you mean Kobborg.... 

 

Crikey yes!  Thanks Sim

 

[Sim]

38 minutes ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

Crikey yes!  Thanks Sim

 

😂😂

[Anna C]

44 minutes ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

Thanks Anna!  Still looks white to me.  Maybe I need a trip to the optician!

 

 

☺️ I think it’s the lighting, to be fair!