Royal Ballet: The Dante Project - October 2021

[bridiem]

@Nogoat I actually agree with a lot of what you say, but strangely enough I find that the momentum of the work carries me forward and grips me anyway, as strongly on the second viewing as on the first. With my head I can see all sorts of shortcomings, and they sometimes even annoy me; but I also see such talent, such scale, such brilliance on the stage that I succumb anyway. Which probably says more about me than about the work!

[Nogoat]

17 hours ago, alison said:

As I said somewhere up-thread, I'm not sure McGregor was ever intending a literal narrative, any more than he did in the "Orlando" section of Woolf Works, the name of which I can never remember   Perhaps that's why the work is called The Dante Project, rather than The Divine Comedy?

 

It's the first part of Woolf Works - 'I Now, I Then' - that I have problems remembering as it sounds a bit mangled. I find the Orlando part - 'Becomings' - comparatively easy as it's indelibly linked to Michelle Obama in my head! 🙂

 

And, yes, naming conventions are indicative of content, but whereas the three parts of Woolf Works are not named after the novels that inspired them, the three parts of the Dante Project are named after the major sections of The Divine Comedy.

When combined with all the other 'content indicators' (KOH's intro in the prog, all the other stuff in the prog that mentions 'narrative', 'journeys', etc., and the staging) I had placed my marker (on the continuum of pure abstract to pure narrative) rather more towards the narrative end than the abstract.

That the gap remained on second viewing suggested to me a mismatch between intention and realisation. The piece misfired for me, but obviously (and thankfully!) the perceptual engines in our heads are all tuned in different ways! 🙂

[DanJL]

The cast sheet states that Dante Project is "A new ballet inspired by Dante Alighieri's Divine Comedy and Vita Nuova". Based on the term inspired (and the information from the insight) I assumed it would be a less literal narrative interpretation.

[Rina]

On 31/10/2021 at 12:45, FLOSS said:

I find the range of critical response to this piece very telling. It seems to me that nearly everyone has been very careful for fear McGregor's latest oeuvre turns out to be a masterpiece. It is going to be  interesting to find out what Parisian audiences think of it when it is performed by the POB.

 

It's interesting to read Leigh Witchel's review (in Dance Links for 2 November), which largely echoes the conclusions reached by Gerald Dowler. The criticism made again that much of Dante Project is not coherent or comprehensible on its own without recourse to the programme. I can't help referring to Clement Crisp's review of Mark Morris's "I don't want to love" set to Monteverdi's Madrigals (p.161 of the new book). He says that Morris's dance speaks for itself and "a moment's homework with the text of the poems is sufficient to lead into what Morris is doing". In my view, a ballet needs to stand alone: it fails if it requires extensive research to appreciate it, or if the choreographer has some conceptual idea that a ballet is not just what's on stage but also consists of an audience's efforts to find out from other sources what it's about.

 

In relation to FLOSS's comment about the Paris Opera Ballet, they'll have two new full evening works to compare - although Dante Project has little in common with Pierre Lacotte's two and a half hour spectacle ballet Le Rouge et Le Noir based on the classic novel by Stendhal. The video is still available to see in the forum, on a separate thread. I find it really strange that so much ink has been spilled in this forum on McGregor's work while there has been little response to Lacotte's substantial ballet. True it is largely in a 19th century Romantic pastiche style, with traditional sets and costumes (designed by Lacotte himself), but I wouldn't say that Dante Project is exactly ground-breaking, is it? Lacotte's work is too long - I can see at least 45 minutes I'd cut - and his decision to apply the 19th century grand manner to a novel adaptation has its problems - too many scenes, too many longueurs - we're used now to tighter plotlines. But there is some exquisite choreography. Lacotte's work is a homage to the great traditions of the POB. But then POB also adored Forsythe, and I guess it's that audience which will fall for Dante Project. It's certainly likely to be very well danced.

 

 

[alison]

1 hour ago, Rina said:

I find it really strange that so much ink has been spilled in this forum on McGregor's work while there has been little response to Lacotte's substantial ballet. 

 

I'd guess that's simply because people haven't seen it?

[LinMM]

Agree Alison. 
People like writing about what they have actually seen ...live! 
Has Lacotte’s ballet been performed in London? 
Writing about a video performance is not the same and I’d certainly not do that unless at least seen a ballet more than once live first. 
 

[maryrosesatonapin]

37 minutes ago, LinMM said:

Agree Alison. 
People like writing about what they have actually seen ...live! 
Has Lacotte’s ballet been performed in London? 
Writing about a video performance is not the same and I’d certainly not do that unless at least seen a ballet more than once live first. 
 

No, that ballet has only just premiered in Paris.  I did venture to comment on the video stream as it really captured my imagination and admiration.  I suspect one can see a lot more on the computer screen than one can see from the balcony or amphitheatre in a live performance, so comments are valid IMO.

I would urge anyone who hasn't seen 'Le Rouge et Le Noir' to watch it if at all possible.

[LinMM]

Maybe some people relate more easily to video than others. 

I’m always more engaged when it’s a live performance especially if a new ballet! 
From any reasonable seat in an auditorium as large as ROH ( not restricted view) you may not be as close as you like but you do get an overall picture and idea of what’s happening on the whole stage area. 
It is nice to watch videos occasionally of ballets you know well because they move in for close ups which are nice to see of your favourite dancers etc 

But if I was writing about a ballet filming (not that I have)  it would also cover what I thought of the filming as well as the ballet and somehow I couldn’t do this without  knowing the ballet well first. But as I said I’m not so good at relating to video and currently have a particular aversion to it as spent so much of the last 18 months on Zoom!!! I never was that good at learning pieces of Dance from video either as I tend to remember it from doing it not watching it. But I know others found this easier. 

Im sure the Lacotte ballet is well worth seeing at some point for real ....though a very long time since read the book ....back in 1969/70 I seem to remember 😳

 

[Guest oncnp]

Related (kind of)

 

A exhibition at the Crypt Galley  "On Reflection: 700 years of Dante Alighieri" ( http://cryptgallery.org/event/on-reflection-700-years-of-dante-alighieri/) which will include a film with choreography by Valentino Zucchetti, featuring Mayara Magri and  Lukas B. Brændsrød

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CV0zA5CDyp7/

[LinMM]

Is the Crypt Gallery near St Martins in Trafalgar Sq? 

[FionaM]

Agree with Alistair Macauley’s review in The Dancing Times 

[Guest oncnp]

4 hours ago, LinMM said:

Is the Crypt Gallery near St Martins in Trafalgar Sq? 

 

Literally in the crypt of St Pancrase New Church on Euston Road, London, NW1 2BA

 

 http://cryptgallery.org/find-us/

[LinMM]

Yes many thanks! 
I did go into the link and saw it was at Euston. I will definitely try to get to it as it looks interesting. 
We had a ballet shoot at that church about five years ago to advertise our up and coming show lol ...great fun and seemed to amuse some American visitors staying at the Premier Inn ...crazy English and all that! 

[alison]

On 31/10/2021 at 18:30, FionaE said:

Hmmm … the Dante Project itself.  I’ve only seen it once live, and was hoping to follow-up with the stream.  Which is now delayed. 

 

 

I can't find the original reference to that, but have just caught up with the Big Issue review of Dante from this month's Links, in which it says

"The Dante Project will be digitally streamed in 2022. "

[Jeannette]

49 minutes ago, alison said:

 

I can't find the original reference to that, but have just caught up with the Big Issue review of Dante from this month's Links, in which it says

"The Dante Project will be digitally streamed in 2022. "

Good catch, Alison.
 

It would be great if the ROH would let those who pre-paid for the stream know about it first.

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Jeannette

[Guest oncnp]

2 minutes ago, Jeannette said:

Good catch, Alison.
 

It would be great if the ROH would let those who pre-paid for the stream know about it first.

 

 

 

Did they actually charge your credit card? In the past they have done a small test amount (then reversed) but made the actual charge the day of the streaming

[Jeannette]

Just now, oncnp said:

Did they actually charge your credit card? In the past they have done a small test amount (then reversed) but made the actual charge the day of the streaming

That’s not the point. They should be forthcoming with folks who committed to purchase/view in good faith.

[Guest oncnp]

3 minutes ago, Jeannette said:

That’s not the point. They should be forthcoming with folks who committed to purchase/view in good faith.

Completely agree. Didn't purchase this time (once was more than enough) so was wondering if the policy for charging had changed. 

[Beryl H]

I did get an E-mail saying the money would not be deducted from bank accounts until the day of streaming when it was first postponed. I thought this might happen as Giselle starts streaming soon, I don't suppose it's possible but could The Dante Project be shown on BBC at Christmas? 

[maryrosesatonapin]

1 hour ago, Beryl H said:

 could The Dante Project be shown on BBC at Christmas? 

I hope not.  That's the only time some families sit down and watch ballet on TV and it might put them off for ever.

[TSR101]

🚨 Warning Strong Negative Review 🚨

 

So I went to the premiere of this ballet, knowing I was unlikely to be a fan (give me MacMillan any day). Ballet starvation and the hope that the RB wouldn't waste a new full length ballet opportunity was to blame (and to add to my red programme collection!!!). I honestly thought it was pretentious garbage with a forgettable score (oh give me Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, Massenet, Khatchaturian). I thought the staging was a little dull (particularly A2 & 3), given what could be achieved in 2021 to set the scenes. Even the name, 'The Dante Project' - like some nonsense working title - god what drivel! I do feel that if a proper full length ballet can't tell a story from what happens on stage, without any programme notes or prior knowledge then the ballet is a failure alas I wasn't surprised that the critics fawned over it - as they do other forms of modern 'art'.

 

I accept quite a few on this forum seem to enjoy it. I was pleased for Ed Watson and even if I thought it was drivel its good the RB is continuing to try new full length ballets. However, I honestly can't see how this ballet is ever going to be vaguely good business for the RB. It is not something I personally can see drawing in the crowds beyond the first run, its not something I'd expect to bring in more regulars back to CG to try more ballet. They are going to struggle to shift tickets if this goes on again IMO. People like stories. With stuff like this, you target a very narrow band of people and won't get the people who want to watch that one ballet a year or every few years.

 

I was curious if the people who loved it, actually think it will able to draw people in to watch it year after year if it was revived?  

 

 

 

 

[Jan McNulty]

1 hour ago, TSR101 said:

I do feel that if a proper full length ballet can't tell a story from what happens on stage, without any programme notes or prior knowledge then the ballet is a failure

 

 

The first time I saw Swan Lake I hadn't read the programme first and didn't have a clue what was going on!  (Peter Darrell's production for Scottish Ballet).  I find there are many ballets where programme notes can be essential if you want to know in detail what is going on.

[Josette]

I saw The Dante Project five times. I had seen Inferno at its two performances in Los Angeles in July of 2019, and came to London specifically to see The Dante Project, and I happily also saw two performances of Romeo and Juliet  (Lamb/McRae; Naghdi/Muntagirov) and one of L'Heure Exquise.  I found The Dante Project increasingly profound and meaningful each time I saw it and was enriched by the experience.  I am looking forward to seeing the production streamed.

 

Thank you for the update!    

 

[Bruce Wall]

2 hours ago, TSR101 said:

 

 

I was curious if the people who loved it, actually think it will able to draw people in to watch it year after year if it was revived?  

 

 

 

 

 

Yes!  Indeed, let me be just a little more emphatic:  YES!!!

 

[Odyssey]

3 hours ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

I hope not.  That's the only time some families sit down and watch ballet on TV and it might put them off for ever.

But judging from comments made by those here who have seen it, it might  be a pleasant surprise. 
I seem to recall it was the BBC that screened Woolf Works - I think it was in the New Year, so it is a possibility. 

 

 

[Jeannette]

While I’m glad that the stream will not happen during the jolly-holidays season, I sure hope that it won’t come in the midst of the busy Winter Olympics/figure skating season. During Olympic years, Jan/Feb is solid skating for me & many other fans of both passions (e.g., various qualifying Nationals, Europeans, Four Continents, Russian skating concoctions, etc.). Oh well, after the pandemic, we should all be grateful for so much to enjoy, right? The more, the merrier! 🤪 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Jeannette

[TSR101]

On 18/11/2021 at 21:55, Jan McNulty said:

 

The first time I saw Swan Lake I hadn't read the programme first and didn't have a clue what was going on!  (Peter Darrell's production for Scottish Ballet).  I find there are many ballets where programme notes can be essential if you want to know in detail what is going on.

 

I will admit Jan, I have seen a few bad swan lakes where I agree with you but never to the extent on TDP. The Prince was clearly a Prince type figure. the Evil guy, is always the evil guy etc. (Personally, I feel that RB's SL is fairly clear (I took a Ballet newbies to it last time and they seemed to grasp what was going on)). 

 

If you took someone to TDP and they didn't know the title or and didn't have the programme, they wouldn't have the foggiest what was going on imo, the ballet just doesn't tell itself. Almost no one would go, oh this is Dante's divine comedy in Ballet.  

 

Compared this with the much maligned Frankenstein where you can follow that narrative story very easily, even if it could be improved (not more drunken revelry in a brothel!). As with SL, I took two ballet newbies to that ballet and they loved it, they and have since asked to go back again having never been before. That is surely what RB/ROH need. 

 

[art_enthusiast]

On 18/11/2021 at 16:33, alison said:

 

I can't find the original reference to that, but have just caught up with the Big Issue review of Dante from this month's Links, in which it says

"The Dante Project will be digitally streamed in 2022. "

2022? I recall the initial email saying that the stream had been delayed to December.
I also messaged the ROH Twitter account to clarify, they said "start checking [the website] again from early / mid December when we might have more idea". 
I really hope they mean early 2022. I was very much looking forward to streaming the Dante Project on its initial release date, 29th October, when I was on a real high after having seen it live. I think every aspect of it was stunningly powerful, especially Act 2, 'Purgatorio: Love'. After all the sorrow of the past 18 months, and a recent bereavement in my own family, I found it incredibly therapeutic and healing to watch, and to hear the amazingly emotive score. 

[art_enthusiast]

On 18/11/2021 at 20:12, TSR101 said:

🚨 Warning Strong Negative Review 🚨

 

So I went to the premiere of this ballet, knowing I was unlikely to be a fan (give me MacMillan any day). Ballet starvation and the hope that the RB wouldn't waste a new full length ballet opportunity was to blame (and to add to my red programme collection!!!). I honestly thought it was pretentious garbage with a forgettable score (oh give me Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, Massenet, Khatchaturian). I thought the staging was a little dull (particularly A2 & 3), given what could be achieved in 2021 to set the scenes. Even the name, 'The Dante Project' - like some nonsense working title - god what drivel! I do feel that if a proper full length ballet can't tell a story from what happens on stage, without any programme notes or prior knowledge then the ballet is a failure alas I wasn't surprised that the critics fawned over it - as they do other forms of modern 'art'.

 

I accept quite a few on this forum seem to enjoy it. I was pleased for Ed Watson and even if I thought it was drivel its good the RB is continuing to try new full length ballets. However, I honestly can't see how this ballet is ever going to be vaguely good business for the RB. It is not something I personally can see drawing in the crowds beyond the first run, its not something I'd expect to bring in more regulars back to CG to try more ballet. They are going to struggle to shift tickets if this goes on again IMO. People like stories. With stuff like this, you target a very narrow band of people and won't get the people who want to watch that one ballet a year or every few years.

 

I was curious if the people who loved it, actually think it will able to draw people in to watch it year after year if it was revived?  

 

 

 

 

Yes. I for one would be at every revival performance, if possible.

I was literally driven to tears in Act 2, especially the part where the cantorial chanting begins, and the amazing crescendo following this as Dante reacts to the sight of the child Beatrice/Dante and the young Beatrice dancing together (Francesca Hayward was great here, but I was really struck by Ashley Dean's interpretation in the second cast). For me this conjured the very relatable sensation of having all your past experiences, through childhood/young adulthood pressing onto you, in a kaleidoscope of intense despondency, forcing you to feel the impact of time passing. Grief for your lost past, for the disappearance of a loved one.

I also felt that I could especially relate to this as a young adult, looking back on my earlier, pre-pandemic youthful mindset which has been immensely altered by the strain of the past year, and the agony of losing a beloved family member. The ascension from this part to the final Beatrice's entrance (Sarah/Fumi, both equally divine) felt extraordinarily natural.Throughout the whole of Act 2, I felt the music drawing out the poison of my own intense despair and turning into something I could use to help, instead of damaging myself.

Overall the Dante Project really cemented for me the ultimate purpose of dance, whether it's ballet or contemporary. It doesn't necessarily have to be a fixed story, a fixed interpretation - it could mean something different to every single person in the audience. It is there to express an emotion, to bring out latent emotions in an audience that may be repressed, to almost force people to look at themselves honestly, to reconsider their purpose in life and the impact they have on the world.

Also, the fact that it's called the Dante Project - I appreciate the simplicity of this title. There's no pretentiousness in it, they're not claiming to have produced the most accurate portrayal of Dante's Divine Comedy. It is what it is - a 'Project' focused on Dante's journey, with stunning emotional depth that can be applied to every human life.

Edited November 26, 2021 by art_enthusiast

[LinMM]

I can’t say I was at all moved not even one iota by the Dante project though I would like to see it again because I wouldn’t entirely judge a full length ballet on one viewing and I know I missed bits as so much going on! I was most disappointed with the ending I have to say. 
I think the music of the second Act is very evocative but overall the music didn’t touch me that much and was glad it wasn’t completely awful ( after Creature experience) but again it was a new score so would like to give it another go. 

I have noted that quite a few people felt very tearful at their first visit to the theatre after this wretched Pandemic after not having been for 18 months to two years. 
Im very sorry for your family loss art_enthusiast I can understand how emotionally raw one can be after such a loss and my experience of this ( not recent) was that it took a while for the whole release to hit and when one is least expecting it sometimes. A very dear loss hit me about two weeks or so later on a train journey up to York where I was so distraught I had to leave the carriage so as not to upset other passengers. 
I am sharing this because often the theatre can be cathartic in this way if have had to hold down a lot of emotion and may have an effect in such circumstances that it wouldn’t on another occasion. 
Anyway how extraordinary but also gratifying in a way that people can have such widely differing responses and responses also can change over time as we change. 
I used to hate the Stones music but now absolutely love them! Just one example. 
 

[art_enthusiast]

8 hours ago, LinMM said:

I have noted that quite a few people felt very tearful at their first visit to the theatre after this wretched Pandemic after not having been for 18 months to two years. 
Im very sorry for your family loss art_enthusiast I can understand how emotionally raw one can be after such a loss and my experience of this ( not recent) was that it took a while for the whole release to hit and when one is least expecting it sometimes. A very dear loss hit me about two weeks or so later on a train journey up to York where I was so distraught I had to leave the carriage so as not to upset other passengers. 
I am sharing this because often the theatre can be cathartic in this way if have had to hold down a lot of emotion and may have an effect in such circumstances that it wouldn’t on another occasion. 

Hi, I appreciate the condolences, thank you. I agree that I maybe wouldn't have reacted as viscerally as I did to the Dante Project if I hadn't been going through my own personal Inferno of grief, so to speak (definitely was not affected in the same way by Creature, unfortunately!)
I also agree about the delayed reaction to loss - you can 'hold it in' and behave normally, almost like a robot, for weeks, before eventually breaking down when the repressed emotions bubble over, which was what happened to me.
All I can say is that it definitely wouldn't have occurred during a "happier", child-approved ballet, e.g. the Nutcracker/Sleeping Beauty or something similar. There was a very poignant quality within the Dante Project, which allowed me to find some reprieve from my own bereavement. Dante eventually attains 'Paradise' (I believe his soul becomes aligned with God's love, in the poem). I'm more of an atheist than an agnostic, so I view this as the human ability to conquer dark periods like depression, and attain some sort of emotional relief - hopefully anyway.
My loss occurred during August and I'm still very much within the cycle of grief, and I don't expect that to change any time soon.
The theatre certainly can be cathartic - though I will say, in a residual pandemic, the amount of coughing I've heard during almost every Royal Opera House performance recently has given me many twinges of anxiety as well!

Edited November 28, 2021 by art_enthusiast

[Richard LH]

The Stream will be available to watch from 7.30pm on 20 December 2021 until 11.59pm on 19 January 2022.

https://stream.roh.org.uk/products/the-dante-project

[alison]

Thank you, Richard (and to you or whoever reinstated the Calendar entry - I was just wondering how to do it).