Lynette H Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) The recent run of the RB’s Giselle has prompted a lot of thoughts about the imagery of flowers in the ballet. I thought it might be interesting to discuss how this is used in different productions. In the 19th century, different types of flowers would have been recognised as carrying specific meanings which are not so well remembered today. Giselle tests Albrecht’s fidelity by picking the petals of a flower (he loves me: he loves me not). This flower grows right outside her house. It looks like it is some kind of daisy. (The daisy was supposedly a symbol of innocence and purity). In Peter Wright’s production, Giselle gives Bathilde a small posy when introduced to her. It looks like it might be the just same kind of daisies. Giselle is crowned with flowers as the Queen of the Harvest (though it’s not so easy to tell exactly what these are – thoughts anyone?). The flower imagery really takes off in Act 2 however. Hilarion does not leave flowers at the grave in the Wright production, but a bare wreath of twigs. Albrecht brings a huge bouquet of lilies. Myrtha picks two sprigs of flowers which seem to be instrumental in calling up the spirit of Giselle. According to Beaumont’s account of the libretto in The Ballet called Giselle these are supposed to be rosemary. Giselle showers Albrecht with lilac flowers as part of their duet. (At least I thought they were lilac – but these are unlikely to be in flower in the early autumn at the time of the grape harvest, but then we are in Balletland). Myrtha in some productions holds a branch which seems to symbolise her power. I think in the Mariinsky version this is seen to wilt when confronted with Giselle’s protecting love. It doesn’t make an appearance in the RB’s current version. Finally of course, Giselle lets fall a small white flower as she returns to the grave. Are we to read this as another daisy like flower (as in he loves me, he loves me not) or is another flower with a different meaning intended here? Does anyone recall other flower symbols in productions of Giselle ? Edited February 14, 2018 by Lynette H tidied up font size 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesrhblack Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Interesting thoughts here. Isn't the wreath that Hilarion lies on the grave in Act 2 Giselle's Harvest Queen crown? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Thanks Lynette. I vaguely recall discussion of the symbolism of flowers in a Giselle programme from way back but haven't as yet found it. The Royal Opera House website includes the following which may be of interest: http://www.roh.org.uk/news/petal-power-some-flowery-moments-in-ballet There's also an article about flowers in the Paris Opera Ballet's Giselle - different flowers: http://michellepotter.org/articles/giselle-and-the-paris-opera-ballet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Lynette H said: Giselle showers Albrecht with lilac flowers as part of their duet. (At least I thought they were lilac – but these are unlikely to be in flower in the early autumn at the time of the grape harvest, but then we are in Balletland). They don't look like lilac flowers to me, either in colour or in shape. More like orange blossom, or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynette H Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 15 hours ago, Jamesrhblack said: Interesting thoughts here. Isn't the wreath that Hilarion lies on the grave in Act 2 Giselle's Harvest Queen crown? I think it is supposed to be, but in the Wright production it looks quite different. The Harvest Queen crown is decorated with several flowers, but the wreath is entirely bare. Perhaps we are to understand that they have fallen off, or withered and died ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 what i want to know is - how come we never hear the chimes for 1am, 2am and 3am? And i would have thought dawn was more like 5am too.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 48 minutes ago, zxDaveM said: what i want to know is - how come we never hear the chimes for 1am, 2am and 3am? And i would have thought dawn was more like 5am too.... Some clocks don't chime overnight. In Autumn, it's quite possible for dawn to be at 6 (bearing in mind it depends on longitude and latitude...)! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 At least it's not an electronic alarm clock going off. Wouldn't have quite the same impact. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I always assumed that Myrtha's branches were Myrtle? Doesn't Myrtle have some significance in love? I believe it used to be popular in wedding bouquets too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 On 15/02/2018 at 13:21, Lynette H said: I think it is supposed to be, but in the Wright production it looks quite different. The Harvest Queen crown is decorated with several flowers, but the wreath is entirely bare. Perhaps we are to understand that they have fallen off, or withered and died ? I’ve always assumed this to be the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 On 2/16/2018 at 11:29, zxDaveM said: what i want to know is - how come we never hear the chimes for 1am, 2am and 3am? And i would have thought dawn was more like 5am too.... That would make Act 2 very irritating!! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Lincoln Cathedral bells are silent between 10.00-7.00 a.m. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 21 minutes ago, Fiz said: Lincoln Cathedral bells are silent between 10.00-7.00 a.m. Good thing Giselle isn't set in Lincoln, then. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Than you have to take into consideration whether the clocks have been changed to give more light in the evenings! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe blitz Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I suppose it also depends on Summer time or Winter: savings time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 and another thing - when Hilarion runs on being chased by the Wilis - what happened to his lamp? (he seemed pretty detirmined not to forget it at the start of the act!!) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 26 minutes ago, zxDaveM said: and another thing - when Hilarion runs on being chased by the Wilis - what happened to his lamp? (he seemed pretty detirmined not to forget it at the start of the act!!) Maybe Albrecht nicked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 30 minutes ago, zxDaveM said: and another thing - when Hilarion runs on being chased by the Wilis - what happened to his lamp? (he seemed pretty detirmined not to forget it at the start of the act!!) Maybe it's with the water pail 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_New Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I’ve often wondered how there can be Wilis scaring Hilarion at the grave at the start of the act when they haven’t been raised by Myrtha yet ...... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Maybe it's Myrthe scaring him? Or maybe it's just his imaginaaaaa-aaaaation, running away with him......?! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_New Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) Yes, could be overactive imagination. I like the Russian version where there are only twinkling lights that scare him away - that seems a better way of ‘anticipating’ their arrival. Sorry - a bit away from the flowers ....which is such an interesting topic Edited February 22, 2018 by J_New 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe blitz Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I think lproductions which have Myrtha's branch brake as she approches Giselle's grave with the cross. Also I miss in a lot of productions the veil flying off Giselle's head, instead of its being pulled off by Myrtha. what about sometimes G. rises up and sometimes she just comes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I like the idea of the branching wilting when faced with the power of the cross, but in reality it doesn't work terribly well, and can be a bit comical. But if someone could come up with something a bit more realistic than pushing a button and the branch suddenly breaks, I'd be all for it Welcome to the forum, BTW, Joe. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe blitz Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Thanks, Alison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe blitz Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 By the way, Alison, I never found it comical but dramatic. That's just me. I love all those dramatic little bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynette H Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 Another flower detail: From a footnote in "The Ballet called Giselle", evidently in Gaultiers's notice of the 1st performance in the 1840s, Myrtha invested Giselle, once arisen from the grave, with "a magic garland of asphodel and verbena", which might have been an interesting visual echo of Bathilde's necklace in Act 1. Asphodel was the flower that grew in the Elysian Fields after death. ....And following up on the theme emerging here of fascinating inconsistencies in Giselle, how many Albrechts actually get to notice that Giselle is wearing his fiancee's necklace - which is potentially such a powerful moment ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Very rare, I think. I certainly haven't noticed it in RB performances recently - but then I've always put it down to the frequent male habit of not noticing what your girlfriend/partner is wearing/that they've had a new haircut, etc. - so why would you pay attention to your fiancee's jewellery? I do remember seeing Patrick Armand doing it, though, back around the turn of the century - there was a definite reaction as he realised that his carefully-constructed world was about to fall apart. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe blitz Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 never thought about it, never seen it. but I like Alison's remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I've always taken the view that the necklace means nothing to Bathilde - she no doubt owns many dozens and occasional gifts help cement the social fabric. So why would this necklace have any significance for Albrecht? What I find telling is the contrast between Bathilde's disinterest in the necklace, how easy it is for her to make a gift of it, and Giselle's delight in the necklace, never having opportunity to touch yet alone own such jewels. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe blitz Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Hi JohnS, I quite agree with you. And anyway, Albrecht dosn't have any time to notice, everything happens so fast. Not only that, but he hardly looks at her when she approaches him. I'd like to hear what people think of her death scene suicide or heart attack? I'll post some comments at another time and place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Hi Joe. Over the years, we've had many discussions about whether Giselle actually stabs herself, or whether the sword is grabbed from her at the last minute. In the RB version, she does stab herself, but it seems to be just a light graze, to send her on her way. However, it's enough to ensure that her grave is in the woods, not in the hallowed grounds of a church. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe blitz Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Hi Sim. I believe according to the original synopsis she stabs herself. Most productions seem to 'fudge' exactly what happens. According to Wikipedia she dies of a broken heart. So also says ABT. What I saw in Peter Wright's RB on DVD is that she does stab herself because you see her look down at her hand. You don't actually get to see the blood but it's implied. I don't remember if I did see one version where red did appear on her dress. Maybe I'm just imagining it. BTW I also saw one production where there are other graves besides Giselle's. A diversion: what do you, (and others) think of Peasant pdd becoming pas de six in Wright's version? I saw one where Giselle presents them to the Squire & company as a couple either about to be married or already are. I liked that and this way the pdd does't stand out as a show piece, as some claim. Not that I think it. Personally, I do like it as a pas de deux. Maybe because that's what I'm used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Peter Wright is very insistent on it being suicide, to make sense (in ballet terms!!) of subsequent events 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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