Kate_N

I've seen Ms Copeland perform - not in Swan Lake, but in a short classical piece as part of the ABT programme at the Kennedy Centre when I've been working in DC. I wouldn't sh'e's my favourite in pure classical pieces, but I'd just LOVE to see her in a Wayne McGregor piece. I saw Dusty Button dance something of his when she was with BRB, and there was something similar in the style of the two dancers - I wonder whether this is a matter of national style and training. I was a bit worried about my reaction, because I'm very well aware about the "unconscious bias" towards a long slim white female ballerina stereotype and against a more muscular explosive style - Copeland's physique is not that of the long-limbed 'sylph' (I saw an Murphnight dGance ay that dramatic role spectacularly). Copeland was partnered - the night I saw them - by Daniil Simkin who's been trained in a very different way. He used to post on the big US site, Ballet Talk for Dancers when he was a teen in training, and the conversations between him and one of the Teacher-Moderators there, Mel Johnson (wonderful man, artist & teacher) were illuminating around male classical training and artistry. But as much as I thought Ms Copeland was not suited to early 1840s Romantic ballet style, the attack on her is vicious, and goes beyond reasonable critique.

I agree, Youngatheart - and I must say that I would find what Viv' describes of her syllabus class upthread would not suit me. There is a reason for going carefully through the barre exercises as a preparation for the centre, and a well-constructed class will ensure that the focus of the centre practice will be properly prepared for at the barre. For example, in my regular class - only an hour long unfortunately - and a basic beginners class, we are working on the detail and technique of petit allegro. We're now on glissades, so at the barre we do several tendu and glissé/degagé exercises in preparation for glissade and assemblée in the centre.

One very experienced teacher I took class with for about 10 years as an adult used to give us a whole class in the centre sometimes, to test us on our strength of turn-out & alignment. It's a very good thing to do occasionally. And a lot of teachers will do some barre work in the centre - for example, saying that "We'll do grande battement in the centre" or developpés. It's also normal to do a tendu & pirouette combination in the centre. This is different to a floor barre, of course! And it's standard that a contemporary class doesn't use the barre - even a Graham-technique class, which has more in common with classical ballet than, say release-based contemporary technique. In my Graham classes, we would do plies, tendus, and fondus (Graham-style) always in the centre.

Splits are not really relevant at the age you're talking about. At age 11 they look for potential. They'll be looking for body proportions (eg relation of torso to legs), active and passive turnout, innate flexibility, and musicality. And you need to remember (re Anna C's excellent advice) that stretching actually works by micro-tears of the muscle, so if done incorrectly or at the wrong time (eg in the middle of exercise requiring strength such as a ballet class) stretching can actually work against the goals of a dancer. Best done at the end of the day's classes, and also only when thoroughly warmed up.

It's very gentle, and very safe. The exercises build gradually with a focus on core strength, and using the big Swiss balls/Pilates balls to help monitor and develop control over the pelvis. I find it some exercises quite relaxing, and others quite difficult. We do a 45 minute session before our ballet class - it's a good gentle warm-up.

Carr-Saunders Hall has kitchens, accessible to guests, as do Rosebery Hall, and Passfield Hall. I’ve stayed at all of them. Basic, clean, safe and friendly. Brilliant locations and around £45 per night B&B

When I mentioned Dance Agencies, I specifically said I wasn't talking about agencies which manage individual performers & artists. I was referring to community regional organisations which exist to foster participation in dance in the community. Mr MacRae has been injured recently, I think, so may have more time than most senior artists at the moment ...

Thank you for adding that. I only knew her after she had married & retired from performing. I've been thinking about her ever since I heard - that such a light goes out, just like that.

I've just seen the news (via Annette Nicholson on FaceBook) of the death of the wonderful RB/BRB dancer, Jane Rosier. I never saw Jane dance professionally, but I had the privilege of being taught by her in her wonderful classes for adults at DanceXchange in Birmingham. It's 6 years since I lived in Birmingham, and one of the things I miss are the wonderful classes at DanceXchange. Jane's Saturday morning class (early - 8:45am!) was always full of such energy and joy, and her inspirational advice and teaching (and her jokes). She paid us aging adult dancers the supreme compliment of setting classes that she would teach proper professionals. I shall always remember her smile, her huge jump - even with those amazing beautiful long legs, her frilly dance skirt, her humour - her love and joy.

I think it would be really insulting to offer anything less than a substantial payment, plus travel and accommodation. Artists should not be expected to work for free, nor even have to negotiate about that. For example, I know that the standard coaching/private lessons with teachers in New York are around $US120 per hour, plus the cost of studio hire. Your best bet would be to approach your target companies' Education & Outreach offices. I know that, for example, the ENB Adult workshops are overseen by a former dancer who now teaches. Here's the ENB page - a little searching is always a good idea! https://www.ballet.org.uk/project/schools-link/ You could also try the various Dance Agencies (not places for getting performers work) which are publicly funded to do just this kind of outreach work. See here: http://www.onedanceuk.org/resource/regional-dance-agencies/ It may be more difficult to secure the services of a currently dancing, performing professional from any of these companies. They are busy people, who may want to use any spare time in other kinds of work, study or even leisure! You might also approach some of the amazing teachers we are so lucky to have, who specialise in teaching adults. You only have to read this forum for some suggestions, I think. Good luck!

Go to University Rooms. They rent out University of London student accommodation during the summer. Most Halls of Residence are in centralLondon & have basic kitchen facilities on each floor.

I know a couple of German companies well, and they do this as well - the Ballettverein usually organises it to raise extra funds for things like Young Choreographers seasons.

May! Lovely to see you here. I'm organising a big international conference for late August, so no summer holiday for me, otherwise this intensive looks very tempting. Hope it goes well.

Yes, Pictures you're right, but , as you say ... people/parents will look for some kind of qualification in dance. If a teacher hasn't had a professional career, then that qualification probably needs to be a really excellent one. I know I am very wary of dance schools where the teacher's biog. basically says that the teacher trained in the school s/he teaches at, and has only a syllabus qualification. It's quite a narrow training ... And there are some really excellent dance teacher-training degrees, with proper attention to anatomy and properly scientific principles: Laban, RAD and so on. Just something to weigh up.

You've had loads of good advice. I'll had my twopenn'orth: What's respected in the dance industry? well-trained, high achieving talent. If she's good enough, she'll get dance jobs. Qualifications - for performance - are not so important. So you're really asking questions about what would give your daughter the greater number of options in the future - so that she has choices, if she's not suitable for a career as a performer. And if she is good enough & well-trained enough for that career, she'll want to have options after that career. For a dance career, I think it's important to get a sense of where her training/talent is in comparison with peers - who will be the other applicants for jobs along with your DD. Auditioning for summer schools etc will give you that indicator. Do a few auditions, and you'll get an indicator. Like others, I'd really advise against your Option 3. If your DD is good enough, she'll get funding; if she's not good enough, then you're throwing away money better spent on her education in a different way. Training to become a dance teacher will require at least an undergraduate degree (although that's only the start of it). For the kinds of studio-based courses, a BTec plus a relevant A Level would be required for university level entry. And most Dance/Performing Arts degrees will look kindly at a BTec. An additional A Level is always a good thing because it also gives a set of academic skills in writing and reading and research. I teach performing arts at a Russell Group university - so not probably a target for your DD, but just to say that - contrary to so much you read about Russell Group universities! - we take UCAS applicants with BTecs, but they do find the first year very tough and have to really fight for their abilities & self-esteem, because we require an AAA level of academic writing. But they generally adapt and thrive, if they can get past the first hump. So, while people are saying A Levels, I think a BTec would be fine - you need to get the body while it's at the best age for dance training. Intense brain training can wait! (And this is a university professor saying this ... ) There are lots of ways of picking up formal qualifications, post-21. Good luck!

Thanks for this, Hunt & Murphy. Really laugh out loud funny!

Most people have leg length differences - it just depends how much! Our bodies are rarely completely symmetrical. The member of my family who worked as a professional ballet dancer (reached soloist) has a 2-2.5cm difference between leg lengths. They had other very good indicators for a career obviously! Long legs, good line, flexibility turnout, musicality etc. They have more issues with that difference now, as retired, than when dancing, because the strength of abdominal muscles in training kept the body stable. If it's permanent, good & careful training, slowly and steadily, will teach your DD how to adjust.

I can just imagine! I sometimes had to control my laughing in his class as I couldn’t balance while giggling. I wonder what they make of him in Germany?

Just been thinking about other European schools- there’s Neuemeier (in Munich , I think?)

Oh no, I’ll miss him again! I’m working in Leeds, so will have to make do with beginners class at the Northern Ballet Academy (their higher level classes are not drop in it seems). I do enjoy Renato’s teaching and his running commentary of slander and rude jokes is hilarious. Although i I suppose if you’re committed to RAD (Battersea) then you might be offended. But he is interesting about the differences between British and American training. I really enjoy doing his or Nina’s classes for what I learn about American ballet training and the attack of Balanchine-style work. Whenever I do class in the US I’m usually picked out as a British dancer. But it’s good to learn all styles!

Yes, perfectly possible to read as a guest. I find the differences between European & US training approaches very interesting, and often find myself explaining European training to US parents. What did GNS say? 'Two nations divided by a common language'

Well, yes, they were married

A bit off topic, but I hope Moderators will forgive me ... A couple of posters have mentioned Ballet Talk for Dancers: I'm a Moderator at Ballet Talk for Dancers - a 'sister' group to this one - mostly US based, but very international. We have around 10,000 to 12,000 registered members from all over the world. The reason for the restrictions on email addresses is a very quick way for us as (unpaid) Moderators to be able to stop the flood of Spam that the board gets. It's a huge board with a huge membership & keeping the spam at bay is tricky. It's nothing more sinister than that ... Yahoo & Gmail are particularly prone to be hacked and/or allowing loads of spam, so it's just a precaution for us. I'm sorry people have found it unfriendly - if you want to PM me to let me know what it is that you've found unfriendly, I can take that back to the Moderators' discussion group (backstage) - no names mentioned! We'd be really grateful for feedback on things we can tweak. BTfD, and its allied messageboard, BalletAltert live & die by the accuracy of first-hand information (no gossip) and sharing of dancers' and parents' experiences. We have some very eminent Teacher-Moderators, and other Mods who have professional dancing sons & daughters. The strength of BTfD is the accuracy of information & advice. Sometimes Modding policies feel restrictive to people used to more free-flow or blog style/chat style message-boards. If so BTfD isn't for them. But I've found it hugely useful as an adult ballet student. Once you get used to it, it's a wonderful community - just like here!!

And Lydia Lopokova!

Maybe not now, although contemporary dance - a form of concert dance, just like ballet - is strong across France. And we need to remember the huge influence of the French Opera ballet in Britain from the 1830s onwards. That period - roughly 1820-1850s - was the highest point of the Romantic ballet craze, where some of the classics of the repertoire were all over London & Paris. And the Russian establishment of the great companies in the 2nd half of the 19C was very much about modernising Russia - given that the French language & culture were seen as markers of high culture since the 18C, I suppose ballet - the Italian via France - was an obvious cultural import to show that Russia was part of modern Europe in the 19C. There's a wonderful book by Alison Broinoswki, The Yellow Lady, about Japan's relationship with the West (mostly via Australia, as she was an Australian diplomat in Jaan for most of the 1980s). She argues that Japan made a deliberate decision in the 19C to engage with the West. They didn't have to (cf China), but saw it as a way of reinvigorating and strengthening Japanese culture. I don't think (from memory, it's a while since I read her book) she writs about ballet; but again, like Russia, it might be that ballet was part of the adoption of selected Western high cultural forms to demonstrate engagement and modernity.