Kate_N

I think that all the different experiences & knowledge of individual's pathways on this thread show that there are many possibilities, but they will be dependent on individual's talents, basic physical attributes for ballet as opposed to dance (the ideal ballet body etc), and resources such as money to pay fees etc. All you can do is try to gather together as many options as possible. But I would still advise getting some realistic assessments of where any trainee dancer is, in relation to his/her peers. Ballet as a profession isn't really amenable to the current fashion for saying (a la X Factor etc etc): "If you want it hard enough, you deserve it" etc

That's wonderful, Cara! Sounds like a great class. My regular weekly classes stay resolutely in the basic beginners level (although we did a renversé in adage on Thursday), so it's hard to be challenged. But I see it as an opportunity to really keep on cementing the fundamentals. And it's always the 2nd day after new/strenuous exercise that you feel it - DOMS - delayed onset muscle soreness. It gets better! I've started a weekly personal training session (aka torture) but the difficulty of going downstairs 2 days afterwards lessens each week. That's progress!

A few things for your DD to think about: * what is her eventual aim with ballet? To be really brutally honest, it is unlikely she'll secure a contract in a ballet company in a couple of years, if at 17/18 she's only just at Adv I level. As others have said, most people looking for their first ballet company contracts are 18/19 and professionally pretty much ready. * what other A Levels? * what feedback has she had from Associates' auditions, competitions, guest teachers, her own teacher? * what exposure has she had to the national ballet scene? Does she do open classes at professional studios in London, for example? * How does she assess her standard in relation to her peers at a national level? Has she been able to do that via summer schools or competitions etc? At 17 or 18, dancers should be starting to understand where they stand in relation to their peers - those who will be applying for all the same jobs. I'd be advising her to look at degree level courses in Dance. At most universities (as opposed to Conservatoires) these are contemporary-based programmes, but I'm sure posters here will know of degree programmes which have a good lot of ballet in the mix of study. Conservatoire degree courses might be another possibility. But those will be at least as competitive as the kinds of auditions she's done so far. I think key here is a realistic assessment - made by your DD as much as by her teachers - of what sort of career she might achieve. And the looking for the next stage of training at post-secondary level that gives her options to pursue. This would be ideal, but it isn't really the norm in the mostly classical ballet world. It shouldn't be this way, but it is. Age and level at starting etc is less of an issue in contemporary dance.

What a wonderful final comment - "touching" repertoire that dancers have done for hundreds of years.

Viv, that sounds like what I've seen in the US called "lyrical" - either 'lyrical ballet" or "lyrical jazz". And very "Dancemoms". Showing off high extensions, but all a bit superficial & glib. My job requires I sit through hours of 20 year olds' version of "existential despair." Unfortunately, I have rather a low embarrassment threshold, which is a bit of an occupational drawback - I'm very good at sitting quite still, head on one side (less threatening), smiling encouragingly and nodding, while digging my fingernails into my palms! A colleague once said to me: If that's what being 20 is like nowadays, I'm glad I'm 50. But it's a necessary stage, and the really savvy talented ones grow out of it eventually, and make wonderful performances about things other than themselves.

For glissés, my regular teacher asks us to imagine we're wearing a white (flat) tutu with a full glass of wine balanced on each side. Our aim is to do glissés without spilling the wine. And like TYR, I've had a cocktail correction from Nina Thilas-Mohs.

I think this comment is key. If we're going to criticise Ms Rojo for this, where do we start? Balanchine? His behaviour came close to what we might call abusive nowadays. Do we discount what he did because of his relationships (multiple) with his leading dancers?

I hear you, Viv! Wonderful post there about the joys of serious study as an adult - I wish you all the strength to your ankles you wish for yourself

Thank you for that - it's hilarious! But too true - at recent Broadway musical in its last week before touring - my companion and I both had to put our hands over phone screens either side of us. The owners of the phones were texting or googling at the start of each half, even though each time the show started straight into the action. We were in the "cheap" seats (my friend had house freebies as he knew the director) but even these cost around $US70 each. Not money to waste by playing on your phone during the opening number.

This is key, in my experience. All sorts of training, degrees etc may also be either useful or even necessary, but the glue which holds that all together is the hands on experience, and the networks & contacts that emerge from that.

Toi toi toi

No, it really doesn't. Just to reassure anyone reading this with a child at university - we set up learning objectives, marking criteria, and intended learning outcomes appropriate to the year of study, so 100% at 1st year does not mean "publishable." That is the expectation of achievement at PhD level.

Tagging on (not specifically about the blog in question): I find that some of my undergraduates are increasingly sensitive and take feedback very personally. Instead of seeing feedback as about the work they are doing, they see feedback (particularly a "bad" mark) as some kind of moral judgement against them. I had a student last year who thought of the mark of 58% as a "failing" mark. Not a healthy self-talk for a start, and then that sets up a resistance to seeing where they can work to improve. Because if they read feedback & grades as my moral judgement of them, then the (rather twisted) logic is that there is nothing they can do, except challenge my judgement.

Oh dear, I can't imagine doing a proper ballet class in barefeet. Most studios I know say socks are fine - I generally wear socks for warm-up and plies, s I can really feel the floor, then swap into ballet flats at tendus. If you're in the UK, one quick & cheap seller is DanceDirect - you can order online & delivery is around 3 days. I tend to order about a half-size less than my street shoe size, and they have a sale on at the moment - a pair of canvas flats will cost you only around £8-£10. As others say, if you keep doing class, you'll wear through your shoes and so it won't be a waste having 2 pairs. Far better than bare feet!

Most of my immediate family work in either performing or non-performing roles in the theatre (I have the most "normal" job of all of us). One of my siblings was travelling all over the world as Technical Director for his firm doing the year-long get ins for huge public events (Olympics ceremony sort of stuff). They got into it by just being around backstage in amateur and youth theatre from around the age of 10 - helping with the sound & lighting, building sets & so on. From that amateur work they got contacts for short term one-off contracts eg follow spot operator for Billy Joel's tour, on-call work for a big entertainment centre, ad so on. They are very very handy with fixing anything electrical & gathered training in CAD/CAM work through working & being sent on training courses. At the top of this field you can make £100,000 pa freelance (my sibling was) but you have to be prepared to travel & relocate all the time, and work very long hours (18 hour days 7 days a week for the 6 weeks in the run up to the opening of one Winter Olympics, after 6 months' on-site prep). 12 hour night shifts for 6 weeks non-stop to oversee the hydraulics for the London Olympics (but also having cigarette breaks with Miss Bussell after testing her harness - I was sooooo envious) There is no particular college or degree course that can guarantee this kind of career, it's about ability, hard work, contacts, and just plugging away at picking up bits & pieces of jobs to establish a reputation. Things that help include a good knowledge of all branches of the performing arts - being able to count the music so you get the follow spot bang on the dancer as he does a grand jete entrance was key at one point (thank goodness for a professional dancer parent & sibling). But the backstage life is a good life - very hard work, long hours, but great camaraderie

But you need to remember that dancers have unionised rights over the showing of their performances on broadcast media. I've been involved in talking through actors' contracts with Equity around recordings of their performances (although not for broadcast media) and there are rights to be protected. It may be that the broadcasters haven't wanted to pay for the broadcasting of performances, or the ballet companies don't wish to "sell" their productions in this way.

I would still advise caution. The thing is, that the required results in terms of letter grades must be there. Other aspects of an applicant's life and abilities may help make them stand out from other applicants with the same results, but without the required grades, those other skills/activities will not make up for the lack of required grades, for in-demand courses at elite universities.

Yes, I agree that there's not much across the floor in Hannah's beginners' class - sometimes there's a drill on pirouettes en dedans which really moves across the studio. But her teaching around alignment and placement, and the anatomical mechanics of ballet is excellent - I find it a refreshing tune up, and in my experience, she has an eagle eye - I always get very helpful corrections from her - just little things that really help with what I know are habitual issues. And she's one of the few teachers in London that I've taken class from who will do very hands on corrections.

In short, probably yes. But the short answer is not the most useful! It depends which schools/which universities. There's also a general middle-class expectation that children will do all sorts of life-enriching activities, that will feed their development as people. And that is true - but given the middle-class advantage in so many areas, it can't be something we take into too much consideration in admissions to university. My course requires AAB as a ball-park level of achievement, and for some variations (Combined Hons with other in demand subjects) AAA. That's the level we teach at - we demand & expect a lot of our undergrads (which the secondary school system increasingly doesn't/can't prepare them for, unfortunately). So it behoves us to ensure that they are as equipped as possible to thrive in our programme - and achievement at GCSE and A Level are still the best markers for the likelihood of thriving in our degree. And by 'thriving' I really don't mean high marks - I mean "getting" the requirement for independent thinking and development towards autonomous learning.

BalletBean, that's the article that the WonkHE blog is answering (and refuting, mostly). I think people need to read both - as I said, in widening participation terms, we tend to disregard "piano lesson" tariff points. We want the A Levels! We also are only interested in extra-curricular stuff if it's relevant. so it really doesn't make a UCAS application more ikely to be succesful if you have a gold DoE award.

Congrats on the Huddersfield place! I know from working with their Music Department in a national teaching organisation that they are one of the top places (if not the best) in the country for contemporary, electronic, experimental music, and music technology. Your DD's achievement in graded Music exams was highly relevant for her application. But I reiterate my warning that this may not always be so, and certainly not the case in my knowledge of Music at the University of Birmingham, for example, where the Grade 8 equivalent plus A levels at a certain level was required (although that was 3 years ago - it may have changed). I'm not saying don't put these things on your UCAS form - just that the use/acknowledgement of them will vary from university to university. Just a heads up, really. edited to add: sorry for the essays! Admissions is close to my heart ...

As an academic who interviews applications for places in a performance-related degree at a Russell Group university** (and the experience of the other 2 Russell Group places I've worked at) can I add a note of caution? We don't really count all the Trinity/LAMDA stuff ... and certainly not the UCAS tariff points. We look at A2 Levels achieved or predicted, and the ability to reflect on and talk sensibly and reflectively about the candidate's experience of performing/learning about performance in school or extra-curricular activities. So speech exams with Trinity actually matter far less than their ability to collaborate with others. And so on. Apart from anything else, the ability to pass whatever grade in piano exams (for anything other than a BMus or BA in Music perhaps) tends to advantage the socio-economically advantaged, who can afford these things, but already have a head start.The Sutton Trust estimates that educational advantage linked to socio-economic advantage starts at around age 3 (I think that's when the much-missed SureStart began for some children). My department is committed to diversity and widening participation - we want the brightest raw material! If they've done RAD Inter, for example, and put it on a UCAS form, I may ask questions about how that fed into their studies of History - I'm not interested in "the magic of performance" - I want to hear about the habits of work and self-reflection that come from training. Because that's what they'll need in my department to thrive. We're tough (which is why we're in the world's top 100 in our discipline and one of the top 3 departments in the UK). I think it may be different at post-92 universities, which have a different catchment pool and a different approach to teaching. But just thought it was worth letting you know from the point of view of a place with high expectations of UCAS applicants in terms of A Levels. You might be interested in this blog from a professional Admissions administrator: http://wonkhe.com/blogs/why-admissions-secrets-are-a-little-off-key/ ** Although I've mostly worked at RG institutions, I take that grouping with a pinch of salt! Really, it signifies largeish universities which offer a research-intensive environment for undergraduates and lead the world in postgrad & postdoctoral research. THat's all - but they're generally really stimulating places for bright young people as we expect a lot of them AND ourselves!

I’d reiterate Harwel’s advice that tucking under is not the solution to the backwards tilt. Tucking will limit the mobility of your legs and lower spine. I always have to think of pulling up off my hips and “zipping up” my ribs to stop my pelvis from tipping out of alignment. I have to think about the front of my body mostly. But also something a very experienced teacher keeps saying to our class is to think about trying to make your back longer than your front. It makes me think about lengthening rather than tucking. The visualisation can help I find, to keep my alignment relatively stable.

If your technique is "all over the place" at the moment a) Hannah's class will really tune it up - I'm at a solid intermediate (and used to be advanced) level, and I find her class really gets me back to basics, and she has an eagle eye for small adjustments for me that really help; and b ) might it be worth giving pointe work a miss? If you're not feeling mentally/physically strong or confident about basic technique, you could be vulnerable to injury, which would be horrid for you ... The only thing I'd say about Hannah's class is that you don't do much across the floor, so there's not a lot of big sweeping movement. Nina's class is FANTASTIC for that - she really gets you moving.

Michelle, you might have been joking, but it's hard to tell on an internet message board. I thought we were all here to support each other, not rate our levels of dedication.