Kate_N

What a wonderful programme!

I'd endorse everything Invisiblecircus says. And the very hard facts are that if your DD isn't good enough to get into the conservatoires, then her career will be quite different. It will be possible to have a career in dance, but it won't necessarily be a straight line. However, I"m not sure many careers in the arts & humanities will be straight lines in the future. University degrees in dance will be like any Bachelor of Arts: as well as subject content & knowledge, there will be broad training in the arts and humanities, training you as a critical thinker and a researcher; training you in developing your own projects, working in groups & project teams, writing, reading, thinking, discussing, debating. There will likely be one technique class each day, but you'll need to be self-directed & develop your own practice, thus, as Invisiblecircus says, preparing you for freelance work. Conservatoires (Rambert, Laban et al.) are much more like vocational schools, although there is a necessary proportion of critical studies content. You can look to the QAA Benchmarking statements to see what the national requirements are. http://www.qaa.ac.uk/publications/information-and-guidance/publication?PubID=2964#.WXMEeNMrIfw ( I teach in a related performing arts university department, with dance included. My Dance colleague trained at The Place & still performs professionally).

Oh wow! Is that the one Danceworks have put on their FB page! Your lucky boy!

And the children themselves may change direction in the course of their intense studies. The now-adult child of a friend of mine in one of the best contemporary dance training programmes in the country, with offers of joining a couple of well-regarded companies as a dancer, has decided that they don't want to live that life, but want to work as a multi-disciplinary community artist. That was the outcome of the three years of professional training, which has equipped this DC to become an autonomous and reflective artist.

There is a day off - but it's a Friday, not a Sunday. It looks OK if your DD works up to it gradually! And I'd be looking at what the 6 hours on a Saturday comprises. But most of the posts I read here (and on other ballet sites) from UK-based dancers (or their parents) are about not being able to have access to enough hours of quality training, rather than too many! This looks like a sensible timetable in that pointe is only ever after a proper length of ballet technique class ie 90 minutes. At 14, maybe an hour pf pointe is too much - 30 minutes would probably be OK, especially as it's 3 times a week. But your DD is fortunate to have access to ballet 6 days a week - which is pretty much on track for a serious 14 year old, I should have thought.

ooo weird. I will be doing that class this coming Sunday - a very odd image ... Usually, when that teacher takes that class, in my experience, she says very little & gives very few corrections. Maybe she talks more now!

Oh I know that feeling! I was just trying to think about how an adult might get the same benefit from a syllabus, but without doing exams - as Peanut had said upthread that she found it difficult to get to classes consistently enough to do the syllabus work - that's the problem for adult learners: our brains catch up & surpass our bodies/ understanding of the work, but LIFE gets in the way ....

I've been watching Twitter for NPO results - some really really good news all round for the performing arts. And an effort to start to redress the overwheening dominance of London-based organisations. There will still not be a full balancing out of the amount spent per head on Londoners and the majority of the population of the United Kingdom, but at least there's a recognition that we all pay the same taxes, and might well have artists in our midst, outside of the M25! There are some very encouraging signs in the mix of support for established artists, and emerging artists. These are very tough times for public funding, but it seems the government is listening to economists who tell them how much the creative industries generate in GDP for the UK.

I'm not so sold on going in for exams. I think there's a problem with getting fixated on syllabus work. Doing open classes gives you more skills in picking things up - although there is a complementary loss of learning through progressive steps, I recognise that. But could you take what might be the motivation for wanting to do an exam, as Viv puts it so well? The concrete goal to work towards? Could you identify aspects of the exam material you want to work towards, and set your own personal goals. Such as: clean single pirouettes with a neat controlled landing or bold double pirouettes with a reasonable landing or learning to get lightness & ballon in petit allegro (these are my goals at the moment, can't you tell?)

Oh wow! watching sounds great - do come back here & report to us!

Yes, I've had that email as well. I just assumed that it was a standard informational one, not so much a personal invitation. All the information on the website suggests this is very much for young dancers at, or aspiring to, vocational school - the Danceworks YouTube site shows clips from Ms DePrince's workshop last year, & you can see the standard. She looks like a lovely teacher!

There are actually quite significant differences between ballet and gymnastics training and technique - I'm sure we could all list several of them! The one I notice in gymnastics is the style of the hyperextended back and thus a displaced alignment of the pelvis and turn out. I've heard ballet teachers say that after the age of around 10 or 11 children can't do both gymnastics and ballet, if they want to get serious with ballet, because technique-wise they work very differently.

From what I understand at Danceworks, these are very much for young advanced dancers. Probably not for adults -even those of us doing ballet as a serious hobby!

Gosh! who knew flexibility was so controversial? <grin> I hope it's OK still to post? Because I was talking to a friend (a professional dancer) who said that he stopped doing hard stretching in class and after class unless it was the last class/rehearsal of the day. The physiology is thus (I hope if I'm wrong, DrDance can correct me): the really hard stretching to develop increased flexibility works by actually doing minor, minor damage to tissue fibres (muscles especially) - they stretch to just a tiny bit beyond capacity, and heal looser than before. In class, you're actually working on strength, and building strength in the muscles. So why would you weaken those muscles in the middle of strengthening them? that was my friend's revelation about that tradition of over-stretching between barre & centre. He does his stretching after rehearsals etc, when the body can then heal over night. I think this is very interesting (and I hope my non-medico Dr explanation makes sense!).

I understand that the press can't call the perpetrator a terrorist (although we know he is) because he will be standing trial. In other attacks, the attackers themselves have died as part of their murder plans. We have to remember, though, that there is still more danger in driving a car, than from terrorist incidents. But of course, it doesn't feel like that, as it's only rarely that drivers use their cars as weapons with a deadly intent.

PetalViolet, we need more tales of #NotaBalletMum ;-)

The men in my family are all around 6' and women between 5' 2" and 5' 8". I wasn't particularly tall until I had a growth spurt at about the age of 16. I'm now around 5' 6" but appear taller because of ballet! Straight back etc. The thing is, actually, there's nothing you can do. As far as I understand it, height is mostly genetic. In times/places of nutritional scarcity - famine, war - people aren't so tall, but that is not the case now. But while famine or food restriction because of calamity (war time rationing for example) might inhibit growth, but as far as I know, the reverse is not true: eating more won't make you grow taller! Take the advice here, and eat healthily, and think of food as the essential source of nutrition and energy to enable you to be healthy and fuel your dancing. Edited to add: the other thing you might take into account (but don't need to discuss here if you don't wish to) is the menarche - the onset of menstruation. There is often a link between the development of weight, height, and menstruation in young women. I'm not a medico, so can't tell you how that works! Maybe DrDance knows more about this. But think of it as your body being busy doing a lot of stuff, so height may be delayed while other things are going on in your endocrinal system - as I say, I had a growth spurt at 16, and now I remember it, so did my father.

A lovely thought, but physiologically almost impossible - some of the muscles, etc need to be trained from early age - at the very latest 11 or 12. I saw that [awful] film Black Swan - it was VERY easy to see that the lead actress was not a trained professional dancer. She may have been thin, but she didn't have the honed, trained musclature, and her dancing wasn't up to it. It does not help Jellyfish to give her/him a false hope, in my view. However, contemporary dance is an area that late starters can work in & be paid for - if they have the physical facility, the kinaesthetic learning ability, enough musicality, and the energy. But Jellyfish has said that contemporary dance is not of interest -- that's a mistake, as contemporary dance is a field where very late starters (anyone over 18) might be able to scratch a living. Your questions actually come across as quite odd, Jellyfish. Have you read up about ballet careers? Have you been to dance performances? Have you seen or read any interviews with dancers? If you had done any of these things, you'd realise the answers to your questions.

Arucaria, you are right to be sceptical about this, but I'm afraid there's probably not much that you, as another young student in the studio, can do. My advice would be to focus on your own training. Although I think a number of us here would be wondering whether the studio at which you're studying is the best available to you, if that is their policy about putting students on pointe (at 8 years old, I mean). But this announcement would start me wondering about the necessity of a move to a more professional studio at some point in the next couple of years. Different studios have talents for different things, or different levels in a student's training - the studio that starts off young "baby ballet" dancers, may not be the studio for the dancers who will graduate into serious training at, say 12, or into further more serious training at 16. And so on. This doesn't mean that the studio where children start is a bad studio. Just that sometimes one studio can't accommodate the range & level of students' needs as they develop & grow in their training. The studio I go to sends its children who want to make a serious study of ballet past the age of about 10 or so to other local schools where there is specialisation in the pre-teens & teens training, to get them to vocational school. I really admire my teacher/studio-owner for doing that, as she serves the best interests of her students, rather than her self-interest.

Jellyfish, sadly, and bluntly, there is no chance that you would ever become a dancer with the Royal Ballet, starting at 23. Ballet training to get you to that elite level (one of THE best companies in the world) needs to begin at age 8 or 9, but must be combined with the right kind of physical facility, and the ability of an performing artist to communicate. There are many ways you can dance as an adult beginner, however. There is lots of discussion of these opportunities on this forum - there are open classes in dance studios across the country (I'm assuming you're in the UK), structured syllabus classes for adult beginners in various locations (RAD and Morley College are two that spring to mind), and then when you have a bit of learning under your belt (or in your feet!) you can participate in various amateur dance companies - again, a search of this forum will give you some ideas. Welcome to the wonderful world of adult ballet students!

Generally, training for ballet is better in open classes. Part of dancing professionally is dancing in large groups. And in a ballet class with others, there is the peer & group learning (eg learning from a correction given to others, watching the effect when a teacher adjusts an other student), and the general camaraderie and getting along in the dance world. You learn how to share space, how to move in relation to other bodies in the space - really important aspects of dancing professionally (don't get me started on how most people are spatially unaware in public space). This is certainly something that comes up with the US hothoused "phenoms" (as they call them) who are often trained privately. Anecdotally (and I know anecdote is not the singular of data!) I've heard that this is can be why these prize winning "Infant Phenomena" dancers often find company life (especially starting in the corps) difficult. Ideally, your son would do regular classes, the Associates Scheme and a private lesson to work on specific issues. But it's generally recommended that privates are used for specific issues and competition coaching. If it's about him catching up, then the Associates classes might be better. He (and you) will also be able to meet other dancers & teachers outside your own studio & town. I think this is quite important in the education of artists.

I'm sorry but this statement cannot go unchallenged: as you say, women as "just as capable of being abusers." But the statistical evidence, and evidence from our justice system confirms that, on the whole, women DON'T abuse children. It is [some] men who commit the vast majority of child abuse. The stat is somewhere around the 90% mark (if not higher). And 75% of victims of their abuse are girls/women. And what you call "structural discrimination" against male professionals in safeguarding situations, others might call a long-overdue care for young people, particularly girls (and women in workplaces re sexual harassment), and a no-tolerance attitude to masculinist assumptions of their "rights" to do what they wish to/with young girls (and sometimes boys). I think we only have to look at the changes in attitudes towards the recent high-profile historical sexual abuse cases to see the results of earlier attitudes towards a sense of male "entitlement" to female bodies. If this makes things more difficult for the good men now (the majority of men, in other words), then I would hope that they understand why we are now extra-careful, and live with those constraints (after all, women live within the constraints of male violence all the time). The excesses of the past leave their marks - on individuals, and society.

I don't see what you're arguing here: it's entirely possible to teach pointe work when not on pointe oneself. Male teachers and choreographers have been doing it from the start of the evolution of the pointe show. In fact, the pointe shoe was "invented" at the behest of a male choreographer & teacher back in 1840s - the first pointe shoe was the standard satin slipper with strips of paste & paper on the inside of the shoe at the toes, and darning on the outside, to reinforce. Increduble skill & strength required. And as for ballet being a female dominated profession? Hmmmmmmm. Not so sure about that - most significant companies worldwide are directed by men. Most choreographers seen as "important" are men. The usual pattern I see in the profession (and quite up close - it abuts onto my professional expertise as well as my hobby) is the leading "artist" (male) and his assistant (female). The ballet world is part of our society, and reflects patriarchal structures just as much as any other area of contemporary society.

Absolutely, Taxi4Ballet! Thanks for saying that so clearly. I was brought up in the theatre (on-stage in utero in fact!) and I think it is a brilliant environment in which to raise & train children. What you learn is that first & foremost, success is about hard work, discipline, and generosity. That it's about the work, not your ego or your feelings. And that things of great beauty take years of skill and love. And children of the "once a week" variety (and their parents) can see that as much as anyone else.

Most people are not wholly symmetrical, and most people actually have slight differences in length, shoe size, etc, but not enough to notice. However, the extreme requirements of ballet technique (extreme in relation to everyday movement needed just for living, that is) sometimes show up the asymmetry of our bodies. You know the kind of thing - whether someone is a right or left turner, for example, or I find that my left leg goes higher and with less hip movement than my right, because my right side is stronger. So it's probably about learning to work with it, and ballet can actually help in learning how to balance out bodily asymmetry. I know a professional dancer with a mild scoliosis & something like a 2cm difference in the length of her legs. Ballet keeps her spine straight! And I echo DrDance re pointe work - it's not for everyone, and in my view, it's far better to work really really well on demi-pointe, than mediocrely (or even badly) on pointe. I've seen too many adult dancers who can't get over the block, and really sickle etc, when on pointe. But as others have said, you can purchase 2 pairs of pointe shoes each in a different size, and you may also have to think about how you use padding to help even out as well.