Kate_N

Exams are not an end in themselves. They are simply a marker of where you are at the moment. It's the work that is important. Don't put the cart before the horse! And look what you've learned from the experience about what you need to do to develop your work on pointe - you now know a bit more about what sort of pointe shoes you need for your feet at the moment, and that you need to focus on getting over the box - this is a piece of very useful feedback for you to use in your classes in the future.

The received wisdom about ballet training at a young age is that it is far better for a child to be in a group class. There are all sorts of advantages: learning from others learning how to learn with others hearing teacher's corrections for others and applying them learning spatial awareness in a group learning consideration for others learning how to dance with other people (a dance career is rarely just solos!) I'm sure others more experienced than I am with 9 year olds can add to this list. At 9, and just starting the formal study of ballet, your daughter would need a year of basic grounding with children aged between 7 and 9. Serious ballet learning starts at around 7 or 8, and at that age, it's simple but foundational. Not tricks, turns or high extensions, but learning to locate and use the rotator muscles to keep the turn out working (turn out is an action not a position). Learning how to activate the back and abdominal muscles to develop the pulled up, extended deportment and carriage of the arms (port de bras) required for ballet. Learning how to mobilise and work the ankles, feet and toes. Learning the names and actions of the basic building blocks of ballet (plié, tendu, fondu, jeté and so on). Private lessons are usually for children a little older, who need some specific coaching (after injury say, or for a piece of repertoire for a ballet competition). A couple of private ballet lessons for a child who's trained in other dance forms won't do this, and ballet isn't a quick fix. A group class once a week will start to help in the way you want it to, but ballet is ballet, not a remedial form to create "arches" or leg extensions. Those come after several years of careful, focused, slow work..

What do her current teachers advise? If there's a problem with her current studio or teachers, you may need to look at your daughter's dance education as a whole, rather than trying to "fix" specific problems?

They could be right, or they may not be. The only way to find out is to start auditioning. What about cruise ship work, for example? Or auditioning for other colleges? You need to find out what "the market" thinks of you as a dancer now. And yes, if you need a bit more training, it's sensible to seek that out: could you combine working a part-time job with doing open classes, with a studio where -once you become a regular - you'll get care & attention just as you might at college? I've seen this happen - if you go regularly enough (ie 5-6 days a week) to the same teachers, they will start to get to know you and coach you. But given that your current college has not offered you a place to progress, I think you need to get a couple more opinions on the open market. Then - you may get work, and one job leads to another, and there's a career! Or, they may give you similar feedback to your current college. Then you know it's time for Plan B, or C, or D (good to have several parachutes!) Edited to add: Apologies - I see you're already looking at cruise/entertainment auditions. My sense would be that that's a good way to go - a combination of auditioning & attending open/drop in classes, + part-time work. I really think you have to test yourself in the market - go for it! Toi toi toi & merde !

Thanks for the update. Whatever you decide about attending Danceworks or not, that sounds like a really positive experience. I'd love to know which teacher/class she did? Now you know what standard pre/professional preparation teaching should be like, you don't necessarily have to attend Danceworks - there may be some similar options closer to you. Danceworks Academy (the structured school & syllabus for children/teens) runs a summer school which she could attend in addition to a regular studio closer to you. Best wishes & good luck going forwards!

So Cecchetti is more advanced at the vocational grades than RAD - is that your experience? ie Cecchetti Grade 5 = RAD Inter foundation (which was Elementary in my day ... but I'm oooold). As I say, I did the Cecchetti syllabus work some time ago - before the RAD spread out their syllabus (which was a sort of 'dumbing down' to accommodate serious recreational dancers I think?) Sorry Mods, this is all off-topic I know ...

As far as I know, the Cecchetti syllabus has pretty much the same levels as RAD, but I don't think they do the higher grades as an alternative to the more vocational exams. So they do Elementary, Intermediate, and 2 levels of Advanced - at least this was so when I did Cecchetti syllabus classes. Overall, fairly equivalent to RAD gradings - or indeed any syllabus which progresses methodically through ballet technique (which is all the RAD and other such organisations do). UK information here: https://www.cecchetti.co.uk/

Danceworks has two streams: 1. the open drop-in classes mostly for adult dancers, but children can take them with the teacher's permission: schedule here: http://danceworks.net/classes/schedule/tuesday/ These are drop-in classes, which don't necessarily follow a syllabus - they have excellent teachers. Then there's the Danceworks Ballet Academy which is a graded regular termly school for young children/teens. They also run a summer school. This might be what Danceworks is referring to here:

I’m afraid I’d be pretty darn angry if I had a broken wrist which seems to have been caused by an elderly driver driving carelessly (pulling out of a private road onto a public road without giving way which is what seems to have happened) when all the press attention has been on the elderly driver simply because of who he is. And the culture of deference to people simply because of an accident of birth. A broken wrist is - in my experience anyway - not a negligee injury. It’s at least 6 weeks of temporary disability and often pain, as well as loss of income. I broke my wrist through engaging in winter sports, and it led to a year of pain and operations. My own responsibility however. But if it had been caused by someone’s careless driving and error of judgement - as seems to be the case - I’d be quite angry I think. But it then I’m a republican - I tend to think the Windsor’s are mostly unnecessary and I dislike the deference generally paid to them, even when they’re clearly badly behaved.

It's WONDERFUL news! Lucky BRB and lucky ballet-goers in the MIdlands.

I follow BalletStrengthPro on Instagram - fascinating stuff, and they really know what they're doing with ballet students, it seems.

I often stay at Rosebery Hall in the vacation when I'm doing work in London archives. The rooms are standard single rooms & some doubles, with kitchens for doing your own food, + breakfast in the price. And about a 15 or 20 minute easy walk to Central. You're about 3 minutes from Sadler's Wells. It's a quiet bit of central London, with some interesting areas to walk through. Also stay a lot in the Royal Scot Travelodge at Kings Cross - again, an easy walk to Central, and I always feel safe walking back after evening classes there (at around 9pm). The Vietnamese restaurant across the road is excellent!

Here's the BBC website: The Greatest Dancer And I was also somewhat startled by the "Cheryl in the Royal Ballet" comment: I looked her up on Wikipedia, and she attended a RBS summer school at age 9. Not a mean feat, according to the difficulties discussed in "Doing Dance" of being accepted. But still ...

After the audience looked stony faced at the male dancer doing that lovely technically highly accomplished solo (can't remember the ballet argh - it was the one Nureyev brought to the West from Russia wasn't it), and then voted for the appalling frestyle "dancer" (not a word I'd use to describe him), I came straight here to see what you all were saying! Don't think I'll bother with this programme. But what is WRONG with the audience in not recognising the skill of the classical dancer & voting through that young girl who did a series of disconnected acrobatics? I wouldn't call it dancing ...

I've been off-line for the last 2 weeks, so I hope I'm not repeating old news, but this came up on y Facebook feed today: https://australianballet.com.au/behind-ballet/strength-beats-stretch I've long been aware of the excellent dance science of AusDance, and the ways in which the Australian Ballet has implemented the results of research eg the use of heel raises in parallel between the barre & the centre, and NOT stretching at that point. Here's a further interesting application of body science research to ballet training. Happy New Year and lots of dancing for 2019!

That looks like a reasonable amount for solid training with a chance at vocational school - it's what the professional ballet dancer in my family was doing from 12 to 15 when they went away to full time training. The main thing is to keep the nutrition up - lots of protein (I remember a lot of small meals of steak or chicken|). I didn't study ballet so intensively, but did class 2 nights a week and on Saturdays. Plus Girl Guides once a week, and my horses needed an hour a day, 6 days a week, minimum. With the horses, we had Pony Club most Sundays, and a riding lesson each week. So we were all out of the house at pursuits 6 days a week. The main family meal was always a sit down breakfast!

You need tights - they keep your muscles warm (ish).

That's being very successful, in my eyes!

This is such good excellent wonderful advice. My cliché is that we all get where we need to go, but maybe not by the route we thought we'd take. A ballet friend of mine in the USA trained at the Kirov (USA) and then SAB (nearest equivalent in the UK is probably RBS) - both top schools. But as a male dancer he was just too short for mainstream companies. He now owns and runs a serious pre-professional training ballet school in his home county which has just received a real accolade from his city. Edited to add: I often have to have the same sorts of conversations with final year undergrads, who think they "have" to achieve a First Class honours degree. I ask them why - they answer because they've tried so hard, and put in such an effort, and they believe they are good enough. These are really difficult conversations to have - I blame the X Factor et al. Sorry for going a bit off-topic. And heaps and heaps of good luck, strength, and growth to you, Arucaria!

As others say - perfectly normal. Notice how other dancers are wearing just socks or warm-up bootees, not ballet shoes (soft or pointe). It's whatever works for the individual dancer, what performance roles they're preparing for, and so on. Edited to add: Thank you for giving us this link - I"m so enjoying watching this class (in between boring paper work) - the barre work is really interesting, seeing Ms Ichino's teaching approach - it's a class that looks so lovely & juicy for dancing bodies - I find myself wanting to do it with them!

Huge congratulations, Viv. You are inspiring! And great results, too.

Gosh < blushing > thank you. It comes from long years of dealing with undergrads who think we are telling them they are inadequate people when we mark a performance at 58%.

Oh and the other thing to say ... (gosh, I am full of advice today !!! 😋 ) is that it's particularly tricky examining & assessing performance. Performance is often very closely connected with a sense of self - it's about one's body, one's voice, one's feelings as expressed in performance. Students getting a 55% for an essay, students will often say "Oh well, that's fair enough, I wrote it the night before." Whereas, a 55% for a performance is interpreted as a slight against them as a person. But it is not. Marking is always about the work. Not the person. The difficulty is that "the work" is the pupil's own body - and their sense of self. So could your DD start to think about her body as her tool or instrument, and feedback is about how to use that better? It's not that she is an insufficient person, but that her teachers believe she can improve how she uses her tool of communication. And that her aim as a performer is not to show her feelings, but to perform in such a way as to make the audience feel? Take away the personalisation. Assessment isn't an expression of personal feelings - teachers really don't have the emotional energy to hold strong feelings about individual pupils.

I always advise my students (undergrads) that 'Comparison is the thief of joy.' We mark & assess individuals according to a set of criteria - we don't mark/assess individuals by comparing them to others.** Individuals are marked differently because well - they're individuals and all different! And the other thing to say - from the point of view as an examiner and assessor of performance - is that we often give the same mark for very different reasons. I'd advise you DD to look at the narrative feedback, not the number. A number (on what scale? 1 to 10? 1 to 5?) is a fairly blunt instrument - even a percentage mark (ie out of 100). The written feedback is the important thing, not the number. The further thing I say to students is that "Feedback is a gift" - it's up to the receiver to decide what to do with it. If we are never told what is deficient, as well as what we're good at, how can we improve????? I'm currently doing some fairly intensive personal training at the gym. I "fail" regularly - I can't do a full body-weight pull up (yet!) and with heavier weights I sometimes fail at the 4th or 5th repetition (getting stuck at the bottom of a heavy back squat, oh boy). My trainer persistently reminds me that it's the point of "failure" which is the training point: it's where I learn my current capacity, and the point at which I need to train, so that it becomes my starting point, not my failure point. **The educational technical language for this is 'criterion-referenced assessment' The comparative method of assessment is "norm-referenced assessment" eg the infamous "bell curve" distribution model)

On this one - ballet isn't the only field which is tough & requires dedication beyond the normal hard work required for a specialised profession. I'm an academic. It's similarly a tough career to get started in, long hours for relatively low pay - particularly compared to others with lesser or equivalent qualifications (eg medical doctors). Most people with a PhD who want to go on to work full time as a university lecturer spend 5 to more years in part-time, or temporary university work, on precarious contracts. There's a huge drop out from those who don't have family support at that point. There are many more people with university degrees now and that filters through to those doing PhDs - but the squeeze at the end of that training - the academic equivalent to graduating from a senior high school ballet training such as the Royal Ballet School - is extreme. The professional ballet dancer in my family and I have often compared the level of talent, dedication, and luck required in ballet & academia. I'm sure there are other professions where the requirements go beyond the normal requirements of hard work, dedication & talent, not just ballet. And the skills acquired from aiming for this success are useful in the second or third careers that ballet dancers can have.