Kate_N

I tend to agree with those who say that "the body doesn't wait." In certain circumstances - given the basic physical facility, and aptitutde for training. As well as everything mentioned above. Academic learning can be done at any time of life in all sorts of ways. There is FE and "night school." The Open University, for example, enables module by module study. Yes, they now charge the same fees as all other universities (because State/Government funding for teaching in HE has been almost totally withdrawn) but you can pace the study to fit around working in full-time employment. The main things at the moment are to balance the information you have about your daughter's potential, abilities, and level of achievement in dance now, with her aims at the moment, and with information about her academic abilities and likely achievement. Her dreams need to be founded on a base of realism. Her teachers - both dance and academic - are best placed to help you here. We can't see her, and so don't know whether it's worth throwing all her plans into dance, or keeping a balance. You can go onto the UCAS website and search for particular disciplines and see the degrees available. I really think doing this, together with consulting teachers who know your daughter (both dance & academic) will be far more useful than paying for or chatting to an adviser who doesn't know your daughter. You could also keep an eye out for Open Days and so on, at FE colleges, and even universities in your area - for example, in the West Country, Plymouth University runs a pretty practical dance degree - mostly focusing on contemporary dance. You could lookout for student showcases to see what they do. And so on. And there's loads of experience here on Balletco from people who've been exactly where you are with their dancing children.

I'd echo AnnaC's advice. Most university Dance degrees focus on contemporary/modern dance, and are to greater or lesser degree vocational - some focus on preparation for a professional career at the highest level (eg Laban, London Contemporary, Rambert)** others give a more all-round Humanities/Liberal Arts education via Dance eg Roehampton.** I think the other place for advice is your DD's school teachers (as well as dance teachers). While they may be generally not hugely knowledgeable about preparing for a performing arts degree/profession, they will know what broad spread of subjects will give your DD the range of choices in post-GCSE education. ** There are others, these are off the top of my head, typing fast in my lunch break! ...

Aah, that's useful to know. My error - I was confusing this Summer Intensive with one of the many SIs in the US that use the tag of 'Bolshoi dancers' or Bolshoi teachers.' Any connection with Russian ballet has a strong cachet in the USA, and there's a huge Russian influence in training there, because of the generations of emigres and refugees from Russia, since the early 20th century.

I wear a leotard and black tights over the top. In this weather it's usually a long-sleeved leo, and I wear knitted wool shorts as warm-ups, and a thin cotton long-sleeved t-shirt. I can't bear baggy stuff when I'm dancing - I like everything firm & tight, including my hair - which is very long and always pinned into a bun. I've tried just a pony tail but I hate it when I'm turning or doing a cambre forwards. I tend to do pliés and tendus in socks, and then change into my canvas shoes - I really like to work on warming up my feet as close to the floor as possible.

I note you've said this - maybe a phone call to City Lit to ask if they'd allow you to enrol as you're less than 12 months short of the age limit. They may say that 19 is a clear boundary, or they may say you can enrol. Re costs: most ballet classes are 90 minutes long. 8 classes is thus 12 hours, so a termly enrolment works out at £12.50 per hour. For reference, the National Living Wage (for jobs which generally (not always) require few/no formal qualifications) is due to increase in April 2020 to £8.72 per hour. £150 in a lump is a lot of money, but the rate is not expensive at all - in fact, it's very cheap - especially considering the tutor is unlikely to receive the entire £12.50 - as there are other costs involved - studio, heating, lighting.

Any ballet class you go to will feel odd and disconcerting for the first few weeks. You just have to bear with it. If you attend regularly, teachers such as Ms Scarlette and Hannah Frost (also at Danceworks and Central School) will start to help you & coach you. If you think £150 is too much (although you are paying for expertise at a rate of less than £10 per hour which is pretty low) then you might try Hannah Frost's Friday evening class at Central School of Ballet (Clerkenwell). It's a basic beginner's class. She also teaches very good beginner's classes at Danceworks on Wednesday, Friday & Saturday. She'll correct you, she'll note that it's your first time learning, and she'll advise that you need to give it a few weeks/classes. There isn't a magic way to get up to speed except by doing class and it will be difficult & feel weird at first. There really isn't a magic formula to get past this stage. You have to go through it!

I think Alex Simpkins sometimes teaches such a class at Pineapple. About a year ago in Nina Thilas-Mohs Sunday class at Danceworks, Mr Simpkins was in class (he's always such a lovely dancer to watch & learn from in class) and Nina mentioned he'd be doing a series of classes based on John O'Brien's style. We actually did a couple of exercises at the barre based on the O'Brien methods f continuous flow of port de bras. Lovely stuff!

Thing is, we all know that "the stars of tomorrow" will quickly outgrow the standard "2 lessons a week in a church hall" type of school. And it's about perspective: the child sitting in straddle splits you mention needs to do that** to keep up her body. She might have been looking scornfully at other students in the class - or not. The other students may have assumed that, projecting their own insecurities. Who knows? It's actually quite tough being the "phenom" in a context where ordinariness is the norm ... What is perceived by others as favouritism may well be a teacher desperate not to hold back a talented young person, whose parent may disapprove etc etc etc. Edited to add: the school @balletbean describes sounds amazing - what a wonderful combination of care for the exceptionally talented and for those who simply enjoy learning to dance. What is the magic ingredient? It sounds as though it's a case of success breeding confidence and generosity. So often, lack of generosity is a result or a symptom of feeling pushed, starved, or lacking in resource. ** Well, actually s/he doesn't need to, as it's not safe, but that's a different topic!

And happens at universities as well, both internally, and via the system of External Examiners. So - totally normal - and necessary!

Peanut68 this is what someone in Birmingham did - and I still try to get to the classes she arranges when I'm in Birmingham on a Saturday. She used to use DanceXchange but now organises through another studio. Her vacation classes were very popular. It was a lot of work, I think, but she was very organised and business-like - really wonderful organiser & a dream to work with. Very clear arrangements and business-like - you knew what you needed to pay, what the conditions were & so on. My only grouch was the ballet mothers who sat in the studio and chatted during the summer classes, and who got in the way of us dancers when we were lining up to go across the floor. In my view, they shouldn't have been allowed inside the studio, but I don't know what pressure they put my friend under to watch their daughters ...

Great news (in amongst the Buggins' turn awards).

Happy birthday, merry Christmas, and huge congratulations and thanks - this message board is my daily "must read" and it's such a lovely place to share my bunheadedness! Thank you to Ian, Dave and all the Mods for making it so!

You might find useful first-hand information on this Summer Intensive (and many others in the USA) on Ballet Talk for Dancers As far as I know, this is not a summer course run by the actual Bolshoi Ballet - the title reflects the Russian-based training in many US ballet schools.

"Comparison is the thief of joy" as they say ... Why does it matter if other children receive higher marks? Other children will get lower marks, as well. This has little do with "fairness" in the way you phrase it, but to do with ability and facility. What would be unfair is if there were obvious bias or prejudice in the marking. But otherwise, anyone who can take the exam, and is entered in the correct way, should be allowed to take it. It's not an issue of "fairness."

It might explain it, but it doesn't excuse it. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but if you know your child (of whatever age) might have difficulties understanding the plot, why not prepare your child - maybe for a couple of days before going - by telling them the story. Then explaining it won't e talking or singong, but they'll tell the story through their bodies. And that in order for everyone to enjoy the performance, and to become engaged and lost in the dreamworld, we all need to be quiet and focus our concentration on the stage.

Indeed! One expert teacher of beginners I take class from in London (the marvellous Hannah Frost) always says at the start of each class to the complete beginners that it will feel weird for quite a few weeks, but to give it time. And re male or female teachers: to be honest, at the beginner level, the sex of the teacher doesn't matter. Men and women learn the same steps in ballet - but because our bodies are biologically different, the same step danced by a man will look different when danced by a woman. Men generally (because of hormonal differences evident from puberty) have greater fast muscle strength, bigger lungs, and are taller and heavier; women generally have more flexibility, and a longer line. Women's hips, developing at puberty for potential pregnancy etc, are wider, so we tend not to turn in the way men do. But the principles of all the steps are the same - and the typical "men's steps" such as double tours or turns in second are taught to girls & women as well. There's a regular Men and Boy's class at Danceworks in London focussing on the big spectacular jumps men do, and how you prepare for & learn them, but I often see female dancers in there, getting extra tips on big jumps.

This is REALLY normal. All dancers feel like this about the centre sometimes whatever level they're in. It always goes faster than the barre, and if you're a beginner just starting, or an improver stepping up to a higher level, or intermediate level dancer, doing an advanced class, the centre often seems faster and more confusing than the barre. Because it usually is - the barre is preparation for the centre. The centre is where we get to dance, and to move. I think it's extra hard if you only go once a week, or do classes in different studios with different teachers. My regular teacher tends to do the same combinations (with maybe slight variations) for about 6 weeks or so, so beginners can get the patterns & shapes into their bodies. A lot of centre practice is very similar to the barre, but without the barre - eg tendus, grande battements, preparation for pirouteets. But we need to be in the centre to move, and to jump. It sounds as though what you need is a regular fairly repetitive sort of class - a bit like a syllabus class - so you can get the basics. Generally, ballet is taught in a group, as most dancers work as part of groups in performances. And class is ultimately training for performing. Northern Ballet classes would be my pick - I attended a Beginners one in the evening in Leeds when I was in Leeds for work - it was taken by the Northern Ballet ballet master, and it was great - he managed to keep people like me happy with some technical directions (basic ballet is actually really hard if you're not a beginner!!) and explain the fundamentals of turn out etc to the absolute beginners - he had them all in one part of the studio, and really gave them good attention. (and Northern Ballet's Leeds studios are pretty easy from York by train or bus - former non-driving northerner speaking). But with ice-skating experience, I'd have thought you're already a little bit on the way from being an absolute beginner - I have a cousin who was a junior champion, and she did ballet class a few times a week to help with the figure skating. Good luck - and welcome!

Oh Viv, I'm so sorry to read this. It's the bane of serious amateur adult ballet students' lives, isn't it? It really sounds as though your studio director doesn't want adult ballet students. Which is daft, because we are good representatives for our studios - I'm writing after having spent 12 hours yesterday volunteering as backstage gofer and dogsbody for my lovely local studio's big show. It was a total blast, and I had such a good day helping all the tinies, and reassuring the 10 year olds, and doing hair buns, and so on. Can you travel? I know that's harder in Australia, but if you're in the Newcastle-Sydney-Wollongong line of travel, it's a bit easier. The other thing I've found is that there's sometimes a good ballet network that's not advertised. Maybe your lovely ballet teacher can help you find another studio or teacher, that's not obvious to you. You mention an open studio where you can take drop in classes. I'd persevere with that - it's what I'm accustomed to doing - and once you are a regular, teachers will start talking to you about your aims and your development. That takes time, though. But I remember doing lovely classes at Sydney Dance Co, and at the Seymour Centre with Lois Strike. There were teachers that responded to my enthusiasm to learn, and really taught me. A good teacher (I speak as a teacher in another discipline) always wants to keen eager students, who soak up the wisdom!

Here's an article from the Australian Ballet website: Strength beats stretch

If you look at footage of the AB (or indeed the RB) doing class on World Ballet Day, you'll see what they do. A nice excuse for some lovely YouTube watching. I seem to remember that one year (was it 2018 or 2017?) they had David McAllister commenting on the practice, and explaining the policy. But from what I see (and what I do), it's in parallel, facing the barre, with a very light touch (my teacher was enforcing the '3 fingers on the barre' rule in class the other day!)with careful attention to alignment of weight over the middle toes, and not allowing heels or ankles to sickle. Start by doing sets of 8 rises on both feet - build up to it - maybe two sets of 8 with a short rest in between each set? They're done quite slowly, but not too slowly (watch the 2018 RB class to see the problem when the pianist went too slowly). Then as you get stronger, do sets on one leg, alternating. That's much harder, but it's amazing how quickly you can build strength with such a simple exercise.

Has anyone seen this Mumsnet thread? A friend sent it to me, as she's heard me rant about badly-behaved audience members. Warning: Mumsnet seems to have an ethos of pretty direct & <ahem> earthy language. But it's also very very funny - not least the person who starts the thread. I can't believe it's not a complete wind up. Because is anyone that combination of stupid, rude, and aggressive? https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3748621-singing-along-at-a-musical-to-cause-such-upset

Why is giving a dancer a kiss after a coaching session wrong? It’s a huggy , kissy profession - we all do it. I haven’t seen the session in discussion, but I know from 50 years or so in rehearsal studios (drama rather than dance) that rehearsals range from being very boring for those watching, to electric. I still remember about 25 years ago watching a very famous director take something that seemed to have happened by accident, and setting it in the scene, to transform the ending of a play - it transformed the play. What coaching and rehearsals look like from the outside may be very different from what they feel like for the participants. Detailed, painstaking work in developing nuance and subtlety can be quite internally directed and not performative. If artists find it works for them, I wouldn’t presume to judge. When I work in the rehearsal room, I’m a facilitator not a performer. My job is to help performers find what they need. They’re the ones on stage who take the responsibility in the end!

I've never done that class, but most Advanced classes at Danceworks are at professional level - full knowledge of steps, ability to pivck up combinations at speed, and in the centre ability to pick things up after a cursory mark. And then go again and again, and keep going. However, 1) this one says children from 13 are permitted 2) I often see people in classes that are a tad too difficult for them. I've done it myself, as I've wanted to step up a level. If this is your concern, I think the main thing is to stay at the back in the centre, always go in a 2nd or 3rd group, and try not to bump into anyone. Be really respectful of the more advanced dancers, and keep out of their way! I find it helps to explain to the teacher beforehand if I"m attempting a class a bit above my level. I know I'll be fine at the barre, and in adage & tendus and pirouettes at the centre. It's petit allegro where I wear the dunce's cap! I just focus on keeping out of people's way. Of course, if you're a comfortable Advanced level dancer, I apologise for teaching my grandmother how to suck eggs ... <grin>

It's interesting the different experiences we all have. I've studied both Cecchetti & RAD syllabi (Elementary/ Intermediate/Advanced in the old scale) and I always found the Cecchetti work to be more "dancey." And in the class I did today at Steps on Broadway, the teacher specifically noted Cecchetti when talking to me about setting an adage in a 'neo-classical' style (she used to dance with NY City Ballet, I think).

Amen to that! My undergrads tell me that they worked soooo hard and are exhausted. I respond that they need to work smart, not long, and that an hour's focused rehearsal time with a specific goal is far better than 12 hours of them all getting tired and crotchety with each other. One hour of focused work is exhausting - in the right way.