hoobydigger Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Wayne Sleeps forthcoming channel 4 programme .... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/10309662/Wayne-Sleep-Why-big-girls-should-return-to-ballet.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Oh dear! Whilst I'm supportive of widening access to ballet, this smacks of another channel 4 'shockumentary' which exploits people in the name of entertainment. I can't see that this will have any effect on changing attitudes, in fact quite the opposite if he's turned people away because 'they are not big enough' Shame on Wayne Sleep for going along with this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 I do not believe any dance teacher would tell a child to give up dancing because of their size. This is just cheap TV exploiting people. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkletoes Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 sadly there are still teachers out there who feel its ok to comment on the size of their dancers, i've known a few who have either told the parents the child has to lose weight or worse told students they need to lose weight or they are fat etc. we all would like to think that it doesn't go on but its wishful thinking to think it doesn't happen, sometimes weight is a key factors (going en pointe for example) but there are some people, teachers, parents and students who think you can only be a dancer if you are thin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerbread Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 you can't be a professional ballet dancer if you're fat though 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 But most children who go to ballet classes will not be (and don't aspire to be) professional ballet dancers Gingerbread 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Interresting that he says people criticised him for using the word 'fat'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Well it is rude to use the word fat as a reference to someone's size. I happen to be thin and I would never call a person fat especially not a child. In this day and age it is unacceptable to call children fat, there are many different ways to broach this subject, all that is needed is a rich vocabulary. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belljul Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Yes, very mixed feelings on this one. I hope it is done sensitively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisat Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I love this. It's so interesting to watch what ballet can offer people of all sizes regardless of their sex. Ballet offers individuals so much more then just physical fitness. It also offers an introduction to abstract thinking at an early age and a keen sense of discipline. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Well it is rude to use the word fat as a reference to someone's size. I happen to be thin and I would never call a person fat especially not a child. In this day and age it is unacceptable to call children fat, there are many different ways to broach this subject, all that is needed is a rich vocabulary. Yes, I agree with you on that, and of course whatever words are used, it all boils down to the same meaning in the end. There are many words for things which were formerly commonly used and are now considered unacceptable. They have been replaced by another word, then another, which have in turn become unacceptable also. Everyone (particularly in the media) ends up offending someone, and then yet another euphemism has to be found! It is a very difficult issue, isn't it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I'm politically incorrect by nature and far too old to change, so a lard a**e is a lard a**e in my opinion and being fat can mean a short life. People should be shamed into losing weight. Outside of London (and it's pretty bad inside London) the size of many people is disgusting, I don't mean just overweight but morbidly obese. My oldest friend is dying as a result of diabetes and I have very strong views on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 That is evident MAB! I can see why you feel strongly but there are many reasons why a person may be overweight and I don't think calling anyone names or saying they should be "shamed into losing weight" is in the least bit constructive or compassionate. Could we stick to discussing the programme, please. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Totally agree S and P I have a very close friend who has weight problems since she was about 55 She doesn't over eat or over drink but it is thought could be hormonal problems from having had ten years of fertility treatment (from which she has two lovely children....one of them my Godchild....now both in their twenties) and doesn't of course regret one bit but the weight problem is bringing up some health probs so now under GP. Even without her particular problem some people find it easier to lose weight than others.....thyroid probs etc However I do agree that some people do over eat and really need help to bring their weight down before problems begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I'm politically incorrect by nature and far too old to change, so a lard a**e is a lard a**e in my opinion and being fat can mean a short life. People should be shamed into losing weight. Outside of London (and it's pretty bad inside London) the size of many people is disgusting, I don't mean just overweight but morbidly obese. My oldest friend is dying as a result of diabetes and I have very strong views on the subject. Not entirely sure why you think you have a right to tell others how to live their life. Perhaps if you're too old to change (so why you expect others to change, I don't know), you should keep your strong views to yourself. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evie Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I am fat! I have been yoyo dieting for 20years, having arthritis means I can't exercise! Todays society is very judgmental, I don't smoke or drink, I'm a nice person, I'm kind and considerate, I love my husband and children and I never kick the dog!! Before the children and arthritis(Brought on my the sudden death of my younger sister), right up into my 30's, I was a size 10 and exactly the same person I am now!! My dd and dancing niece have come across predjudice in the dance world because they were not the desired size, but are both still entertaining and teaching dance. My ds is currently underweight for a dancer!! Not every young dancing child, boy or girl, is going to be a ballet dancer or even a dancer. Most of them will use the skills gained from dancing and performing in other aspects of their lives in the future, be it university, college or work. As a final note: my father was never overweight, he never smoked or drank, he ran marathons for most of his life and virtually lived at the gym! He died at 69 of heart disease, his twin brother who was always a bit podgy and smoked a pipe is still going strong at 88!!!!!!!! Some dc dance for fun not for a career! 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Does anyone know when the programme will be broadcast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Does anyone know when the programme will be broadcast? Not yet; there's a bit more info here: http://www.waynesleep.org/blog/big-ballet-on-channel-4/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I do think people get overly caught up in the ballet vs. physique debate. There are lots of physique limitations in other sports as well but nobody seems to moan about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Autumn days Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 In today's guardian; an ex dancer talks of her experience of MS and associated weight issues..... http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/sep/16/exercise-fitness-disability-multiple-sclerosis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas de chat Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I'd like to think it must be better for any child of any size to be up and doing something rather than sitting on the sofa scoffing crisps watching rubbish telly! We have several larger girls in our school and they are very lovely dancers and amazingly light on their feet. They will never make it in the competitive world of dance and probably don't want to but at least they are trying to be active and will at least have a stronger heart and lungs. Hopefully it will be an interesting watch and not cringeworthy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 It would have sounded better if he based the documentary on ballet for all sizes, short, tall, big, small, male and femal. Making a point that dance on a recreational level is for everyone. We will all just have to wait and see how the documentary is set I suppose. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mallinson Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 A post on this thread is hidden while it is under review for being thought to contravene the Acceptable Use Policy and/or forum moderation policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celb Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 There are a number of well known medical studies citing fit and metabolically healthy obese individuals who have a lower risk of death than unfit normal weight individuals such as this one http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/34/5/389. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeafterballet Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 We have missed a most important factor in life ! " Unlucky " 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dancersmum Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I agree with pas de chat in that I would rather see a child of any size up and active than sat in front of the TV or computer. For a recreational dancer I don't think size should be an issue and certainly not for a child. For the vast majority of us our children start their dance classes to have fun in the same way that a lot try out swimming, martial arts, football, gymnastics etc. Activites the child enjoys least then tend to get dropped as time goes on. I certainly did not envisage when I took my bouncy energetic 2 year old to her 1st class that 15 years later she would be at vocational school and set on a career in dance. I certainly hope that the programme does promote dance as an activity for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Are the dancers in the programme children or adults? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dancersmum Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I think it is 18 adults who as children aged about 10 stopped or were encouraged to stop dancing because of their size and shape. He is supposed to train them to put on a 25 min "Swan Lake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dramascientist Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Wasnt there a post on this forum earlier this year asking for adults who had given up ballet because of their size? Maybe that was something to do with this......or am I going mad? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Wasnt there a post on this forum earlier this year asking for adults who had given up ballet because of their size? Maybe that was something to do with this......or am I going mad? No, you're not going mad :-) http://www.balletcoforum.com/index.php?/topic/3689-wanted-men-and-women-around-yorkshire-who-love-ballet/#entry43812 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoriapage Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I have to admit that I'm severely suspicious about the entire thing as it appears for now. At first observation, it would seem, no matter what their stated reasons for doing such a program, that it is more than just a little bit for prurient interest; for those who want a good laugh, etc. I took many, many years of classes. I loved dancing. I left it because at one point I could no longer afford to do it. I am now a large woman. Dancing is still of great interest to me. However not in a million years would I ever consider going back to it in this body. I'm not ashamed of the body. I don't like the way dancing looks on a large body as a whole. I can appreciate quality of movement no matter what the size of the practitioner of it, however I would consider it terribly flawed if I could not appreciate every part of it, in particular when it's being presented to me as a spectator and not as something that's just for the pleasure of execution. And when I say that, I have to go further and say also that I'm not speaking about the poor girls whose size varies in such tiny increments and who are excoriated for those tiny increments; they mostly look just lovely in tutus and tights and dance beautifully whether they are on the larger or the smaller side. I'm talking about really large people. I don't find it inspiring as a spectacle, though I'm sure it feels great for them. Oh dear, I've gone on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katymac Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I do think people get overly caught up in the ballet vs. physique debate. There are lots of physique limitations in other sports as well but nobody seems to moan about it. My dad was prevented from doing competitive swimming because although an excellent swimmer - fast, tidy and agile, he has size 6 feet. All the top competitors have size 11 plus so he would be competing against people who were effectively wearing flippers compared to him. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I wonder if they are considering making other programmes about people who had to give up their dreams of becoming (for instance) a jockey... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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