LinMM Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Have just finished watching it and so far it's okay. Some lovely movers there and boy could no.6 jump!! A lot of them were very loose and flexible and now did that lady have such good feet when hasn't done any ballet since he year dot!! When I stopped after about fifteen years my arches dropped and I had to wear arch supports!! Also how brave they were to just dance to some music from Swan Lake! A lot easier said than done! And all of them are brave tobe filmed!! I hate being videoed but have to put up with it on occasions it shows all your worst aspects if you are not a professional on the whole with the occasional nice moments!! I wasn't bothered by someone going to eat a chocolate bar.....what I'd do myself after an audition I'm sure.....or worse a hot chocolate with marshmallows on!! I think his remark about the woman who likes food too much and this has stopped her.....was from the point of view of potentially having a professional career......she still has some dance talent but realistically not in the professional world. I'm not overweight but a person whose weight can go up and down a bit if I don't watch my intake and diet balance am not one of these people who seem to remain slim whatever they eat and if you dance this can be an issue. So I don't see anything wrong personally with watching ones diet and trying not to put on too much weight. It's just realistic in my view. But it's not just being overweight which could stop your career. You have to be tough too to survive in the ballet world and have a lot of grit. Many dancers don't last so long even if do make it into a company because they don't want such a tough life even if they do love the ballet. So personality plays an important part and of course the inevitable remaining injury free! Anyway am looking forward to the next episode and how the training goes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Anyway am looking forward to the next episode and how the training goes. I'm looking forward to it too. It will be interesting to see whether they show how demanding and exhausting the training is. Hopefully it will bring more of an insight to the general public - my dd's schoolfriends think that ballet training is easy, and is just a bit of twirling about on tippy-toes! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legseleven Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 That made me smile, taxi4ballet. DD's school friend is very sporty and a county-level hockey player, with realistic national prospects and came with us to watch DD's class recently. She visibly paled as the class progressed and remarked afterwards that ballet is clearly fiendishly difficult and she had no idea how DD and her ballet friends did it. This is despite knowing how sporty DD is as they are team- mates for various sports. DD remarked that that was 'just' a syllabus class (albeit RAD Advanced 1) and that if her friend wanted to be really horrified she should come to watch one of their 'free' work classes, explaining that in those classes they pick up new enchainements to unknown music, try out new and more difficult steps, etc etc...;-) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Ha ha!Good for your dd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmen67 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 My DD has danced in Monica Loughman's company. She was in the recent production of Nutcracker. Monica trained and danced with Perm State and is now working in Ireland. She has set up her own company and school and uses Russian style training. For the Nutcracker she auditioned young dancers from all around Ireland and she had professional Russians come in to dance most of the lead roles for the performances. DD says she is a tough but fair teacher and she has a lot of respect for her. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double trouble Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 My DD has had remarks like all u do is put on those ballet shoes then its easy to go on your toes, I wish people knew how hard the training is and it's not something u can just get good at. I saw the programme and enjoyed it but hope next week they focus on the training aspect and not weight issues, some people think if u are thin then u can be a dancer if it was that easy there would be loads of ballerinas. I hope they mention about the discipline and sacrifice it takes to make it. Am looking forward to the performance wonder where they will perform ?? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyelliott Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I also enjoyed it on the whole - suppose it was inevitable that a fuss would be made about size and food , and some of the comments were a little over the top , but heyho that was rather expected . I will certainly watch the next episode and I think it may well spark more positive interest in ballet than one might expect . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpsichore Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) My DD has danced in Monica Loughman's company. She was in the recent production of Nutcracker. I wish I had known about The Nutcracker because I would have taken an awayday to Dublin. Never mind. I will try to catch Loughman and maybe your daughter in Swan Lake when it is staged later this year. Welcome to the forum by the way. Edited February 8, 2014 by terpsichore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 My DD has had remarks like all u do is put on those ballet shoes then its easy to go on your toes, I wish people knew how hard the training is and it's not something u can just get good at. I saw the programme and enjoyed it but hope next week they focus on the training aspect and not weight issues, some people think if u are thin then u can be a dancer if it was that easy there would be loads of ballerinas. I hope they mention about the discipline and sacrifice it takes to make it. Am looking forward to the performance wonder where they will perform ?? From what I saw on the first programme, the performance was held at the St George's Concert Hall in Bradford with the Northern Ballet Orchestra playing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmen67 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I wish I had known about The Nutcracker because I would have taken an awayday to Dublin. Never mind. I will try to catch Loughman and maybe your daughter in Swan Lake when it is staged later this year. Welcome to the forum by the way. Thank you! She won't be in Swan lake as she is dancing with another company this term. Hope you enjoy your trip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpsichore Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Thank you! She won't be in Swan lake as she is dancing with another company this term. Hope you enjoy your trip! Perhaps I will catch her in something else. I see about 20 shows a year mainly in the UK but sometimes abroad and I was thinking of making a trip to Limerick to see Carmen in May. I like Ireland and enjoy my little excursions there. From what I saw on the first programme, the performance was held at the St George's Concert Hall in Bradford with the Northern Ballet Orchestra playing. If that is the case Bradford Council have kept it to themselves. I could find nothing on the website or indeed the newsletters they send to subscribers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpsichore Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 carmen67 It seems that there will be an earlier chance to see the Monica Loughman Company if not Loughman herself because it is dancing Giselle at the Lyric Theatre in Belfast on 4 and 5 April 2014. According to the theatre's website "The role of Giselle will be danced by golden cross of the stage winner and principal of Lithuanian National Opera Ballet, Olga Konosenko. The coveted role of Myrtha, Queen of the Wilis, will be performed by Irish ballet artist, Leanne Sexton." It continues: "Monica Loughman’s production uses Marius Petipa’s classic version, which was first staged in St Petersburg in 1884. Her style of choreography is classically Russian and comes from her years as principal ballerina of the Tchaikovsky Perm State Ballet where she went as a child to train at the age of 14." I have not been able to find out anything about Konosenko but I see that Leanne Sexton dances with the Monica Loughman Company. I also googled the Perm Opera Ballet Theatre and found that they have a very user friendly website in English which I find easier to navigate in many ways than those of the Bolshoi or Mariinsky. They seem to do a lot of touring and market themselves very effectively. Perhaps someone is taking a leaf out of Diaghilev's book who also came from Perm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 A quick reminder that if you miss tonight's programme starting at 9:00, you can still watch it on channel4 +1 (10:00), and then on 4seven (from 11:00). Looking forward to how Monica Longman will be coaching the troup. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I've just caught up with the first one and enjoyed it in the main. Wayne tends to irritate me with his over-enthusiasm but I got over that and I liked his manner with the dancers, and I didn't particularly warm to Monica but I'll give it time ;-) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balletpointe Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Finding this entertaining, what annoys me is the dancers egos and there attitude when assigned roles. It is good to see how they are developing as dancers but no matter what size, age or any thing else there is a etiquette in a ballet class that some seem to be unaware of [just my opinion]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Grrrrrrr. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 What annoys me more than anything is the clip of Monica facetiously dismissing the 'ballet world' for saying that you have to train for 25 hundred hours to be a dancer. Well actually you probably need to train for at least 5x that amount! She then goes on to despair about how far away her dancers are from the professional which is brought into stark reality with a lovely clip of Northern Ballet. Also what has Wayne Sleep being short got to do with people being fat? It's such a tenuous link it's laughable. As someone said earlier, it would have been better if it was just a program about people who gave up ballet for whatever reason and wanted a second chance. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas de chat Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Interesting they didn't give the best role to the best dancer!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Well didn't you know she went to the Royal Ballet you know. If they said that once they said it tons of times. I'm sorry to say though but some of these women aren't just fat they are obese. Yet they claim to be real women as opposed to the stick thin dancers who dance. Serious athletes are slim, gymnasts are slim they have to be. All of the above can also be done for FUN but at a certain level, age and size there will be restrictions. My daughter was shocked at the lady who walked out of the studio and thought it was very rude, and yet that lady got the main part. Most of the lady's seem like lovely hard working people though having a lovely time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 As with any of these programmes, the bits chosen out of the many hours that have been filmed will be the ones tha make the "best" viewing. Whoever shows good news and plain sailing??? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Double standards here - so many of them were really annoyed at being referred to as 'fat', but they seemed to think it was fine to refer to other women as 'stick thin', 'skinny' and 'robots'. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Just to add that Alan Titchmarsh has had a feature on every day this week with Dr Dance (not our drdance) encouraging people to dance for health. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecatsmother Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Surely if the individuals involved actually had a true experience of the life and work hours of a professional dancer they would be likely to see a change in body shape purely down to the intensive physical demands of the career. This comment is not about size but purely the impact of the intense physical regime of a professional dancer. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Yes I was a bit dismayed that remark about supposedly all those thin dancers just being Robots was allowed tobe passed without being checked......if even by Monica! They can't have it both ways! If they don't want people to be rude about their size then they shouldn't be rude about thin people either!! Also Wayne should have had a bit more sensitivity in this day and age to call these women "fat" in front of the cameras at this convention thing he was at. Well I must admit that for me this Monica hasn't much charm!! There are ways of getting people on your side without all this school marmish attitude stuff.......but again editing may have deliberately portrayed her like this who knows......may have given the entirely wrong impression of her......but a bit too much of the po face look for me I'm afraid.......from an adult perspective. Mind you it was inevitable that at some point someone would run out of a class in tears!! And don't tell me teenagers however normally well behaved and well brought up dont do that occasionally in the throes and woes of the training!! Interesting their final decisions. I thought the "ex-royal" lady would have made an excellent Odile.......one of the few showing any real dramatic ability.....and I'm glad one of the ladies I like very much is to be given a solo bit in one of the dances.....I would have liked to see her do Odette really. But the young lady chosen is not bad and is amazingly bendy!! And in some ways has the right vulnerable look but trying to make this programme in three episodes means loads has been cut so not sure what we are missing. I'm not a great fan of Reality tv but wish this had been longer as would have liked more of their stories and more of the training.......we need to see some degree of "before" and "after" which we're not getting much of a picture of so again does this programme make it all seem too easy? I do hope the end result though is that more people take up ballet. Edited February 14, 2014 by LinMM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLAEI Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 This programme drives me insane (and yet I still watch it). Did we have to see them buying sweets? I am fat and I don't eat takeaways/sweets/cakes all the time! I was interested in this programme as I danced when I was younger and wanted to dance professionally, but was "too fat" (when I wasn't really overweight by any normal standards). It really messed me up, and I ended up with a lot of issues around weight and yo-yo dieted, sometimes to the extreme, for a long time. Personally I don't mind being called fat, I see it as a fact and not an insult (whatever the intention that is how I take it), but I do understand how people would take offence, especially as some of the woman involved are not even "fat", just big by ballet standards as Wayne said in auditions. I take taxi4ballet's point about the double standards, but we live in a society which deems fat to be unacceptable and it is used as an insult. Saying someone is stick thin or skinny, is often seen as being a compliment, which reflects the current standards of beauty. I don't think that using robot is appropriate, or saying "real woman" to describe themselves is helpful. Women are women whatever their size. What hasn't been explored at all in this programme is how the standards of size for ballet dancers (and all dancers) has changed over the last century. Of course you have to be physically fit to do ballet, but the current acceptable size is much smaller than say 60 years ago, in dance and in society generally. Oh hello btw, I used to read this forum when my dd still danced, but found this thread through googling something about this programme! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Hope you will post again JLAEI !!! Yes ballet dancers from bye gone eras were not as thin as today's dancers. But the physical requirements are much greater so different body types are required for the professional level at least. There is also a lot more lifting and complicated lifts at that in today's choreography and this means female dancers just have to be pretty thin really.......I don't mean anorexic.....that's a different look again....but just not too much flesh.....but still need a strong muscularity to the frame. However for adults doing ballet at a recreational level they can get to a very good proficiency and be of a larger size!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLAEI Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Yes you do have to be slim, and am not suggesting that at the size they are the woman in the programme could be professional at all. I wouldn't say thin though? Veering off topic but I do think that top vocational ballet schools in England tend to stick fairly rigidly to a certain aesthetic and body type, in a way they don't in other countries? Find it sad that dancers with many lovely qualities are not able to follow a ballet career. I know this has changed in last 30/40 years, people that were RBS trained 30 years perhaps wouldn't be considered now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Welcome to the Forum, JLAEI! Please keep posting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Actually on reflection have decided to apologise for saying Monica has a bit of a po face. It's just that as this programme is dealing with the idea of stereotypes.....there is is idea of the stern ballet teacher with a stick etc still around. And some of the teachers who I have seen get the best out of people(including myself) have been very gracious and engaging and encouraging with students not at all like this stereotype. I know she has a hard task but I do wish she would look if she was enjoying it more!! I have experienced very very strict teachers who I did respect but I was too fearful of them to genuinely progress. Perhaps the dancers who make it through to professional level are made of sterner stuff though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Watched the 2nd episode with mixed feeling again... I know it is a TV show, but everything they say in the programme is so contradictry, it is starting to put me off. For example, Odette was chosen purely based on physical facility - natural turn out, mobility (due to the muscle construction), youth (which also affects mobility and lines of the body, and Odette, after all is a young princess...) - except for the size of the dancer. From what is being shown on this programme, this "Odette" does not have any better mental aptitude nor technical aptitude for the role than other participants (to say the least). And this is presumably ok, becasue this is about (nasty) ballet world? In order to emphasis the size (horizontal) issues, I felt that the programme is sending equally unacceptable messages.... that unless you are big (more horizontaly speaking), you are not a real person, a stick insect robot, that youth is better than being older, that lack of discipline and respect for others are ok and even get you a principal role... All made a very uncomfortable watching for me. Oh, and that inevitable F word, first tracking training... I really think the programme should have been about people like Chirstine, who actually trained ballet at vocational school level but had to give up because of the size issue, if how they discribe the concept of this programme is said in honesty. But then I guess that sort of programme wouldn't appeal to the "public". However, I was touched by the genuine camaradierie of the dancers, particularly when they were conguratulating the girl who got the part of "Odette". That was very magnanimous of them. Edited February 14, 2014 by mimi66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitschqueen_1 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 On the plus side I did glimpse a topless Jonathan Ollivier rehearsing Swan Lake when they went to talk to Matthew Bourne!! :-D 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double trouble Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I am enjoying it although wish they would mention the training it takes to make it. And agree with Tulip about the size of some of them perhaps they should continue with their training to try and lose some weight, lets face it it's not healthy being that big !! Like some of the women in it and they are obviously enjoying it. Also don't like the fact they are calling dancers stick insects and robots instead of saying how dedicated and how hard dancers work. Looking forward to seeing the performance next week that's if they show it. Am wondering if ballet classes will become more attractive now to adults after this show? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I realised that the only reason that I am watching this is to see the 'real' ballet bits e.g. clips of Northern Ballet, people talking about what it takes to be a professional dancer. I really wish someone would make a series about a real ballet school and company and what it takes. I'm sure the reality of it would be equally as popular without the gimmick of 'big'. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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