BristolBillyBob Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Ah, yes, £2 was my very conservative suggestion for average spend for illustration purposes, working on the principle (ballet-half-pun unintended) that especially in a second interval a lot of people, cheapskates like myself included, wouldn't buy anything at all. It'd be interesting to know, though, what the average spend in an interval (either a first or second interval) is. Even at £2 per audience member, that additional interval in Giselle could feasibly pay two Artists' salaries for an entire year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BristolBillyBob Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 (edited) PS. I might start an ice cream thread. Or could we rename this grouping "Performances seen, ice creams eaten & general discussion"? Birmingham Hippodrome do a great ginger and honey one, and if I remember correctly it's very reasonably priced. Edited May 29, 2014 by BristolBillyBob 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 This will probably be a shock to you, but there actually WAS another ballet before Peter Wright's "Giselle", when he created his famous version in March 1966 at Stuttgart Ballet (that was his first production of "Giselle", as far as I know). According to John Percival's biography, Stuttgart ballet director John Cranko thought that the men had little to do in "Giselle" and made a short ballet for them: "Concerto for Flute and Harp" for two female and two male soloists and a corps de ballet of ten men, using Mozart music. It was presented before "Giselle" in those years, but dropped later. Maybe you just have to accept the historical fact that ballet masters of the past found "Giselle" too short for a whole ballet evening and felt the need to add something else. Cranco stated his reason clearly: “the men had little to do in "Giselle" “. I can not see how it led to the conclusion “that ballet masters of the past found "Giselle" too short for a whole ballet evening”. May be I am poor at logic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 PS. I might start an ice cream thread. Or could we rename this grouping "Performances seen, ice creams eaten & general discussion"? Birmingham Hippodrome do a great ginger and honey one, and if I remember correctly it's very reasonably priced. If you do, I for one will certainly contribute 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Up until the 1970s there was always at least a one act ballet before Giselle - I remember feeling very short changed the first time I saw Giselle presented on its own at Covent Garden. A quick dig in the cupboard and I have come up with a programme from 1967 of The Royal Ballet at Cambridge Arts Theatre (plain RB, not touring or Sadlers Wells). The first ballet of the evening was Sinfonietta by Ashton. But it is not only in Ballet that performances have shortened. Orchestral concerts used to contain more works than they do these days too. On the subject of ice cream, look out for Purbeck or New Forest, two of the best brands, made from real ingredients. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunrise Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) There are lots of good ballets that would be a good fit in a bill with Giselle - Bayadere, Symphonic, Rendezvous, Afternoon of a Faun, Serenade, Apollo ,Konservatoriet, Sylphides for example, just using a few examples from the Royal Ballet's rep. My first immediate reaction to Giselle +1 was "no thanks!". Giselle is perfect on its own (and great for taking reluctant partners with short attention spans!). But on reflection, I wouldn't be averse to another ballet before it - how can more not be better for ballet fans? :-) I'm not sure about some of these suggested ballets though - I think successful mixed bills have an element of contrast, and the feeling of tranquility in Giselle Act II is much too similar to Bayadere, Serenade, Afternoon of a Faun, and Sylphides (not a tutu/romantic/white act ballet or any Debussy basically!). I'd want something a bit sharper, but not too modern or comedic. I'd welcome Symphonic or Les Rendezvous. Would a series of Divertissements be a bit too weird to do at the beginning of the evening? - I think they would help whet the appetite, and maybe counter for what some (my boyfriend) consider an awful lot of peasant dancing and pd6 in Giselle Act 1 ;-) How about Rite of Spring to bookend Giselle Act II... you could compare and contrast! Edited May 30, 2014 by Sunrise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunrise Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) One of my first visits to the ballet ( Sadler Wells) had Monotones prior to Giselle. I had been taken to see a traditional, romantic ballet - which I loved, but Monotones was a revelation to my young eyes. I do think there is an added bonus of introducing a new (and often younger) audience to works they wouldn't otherwise make an outing to see - particularly plotless works. I agree. Giselle's a pretty "safe" ballet to go and see (i.e. its tried and tested, got acting, two deaths, beautiful dancing, tutus, easy plot to follow apart from the mime and its not too long = guaranteed good night out), If adding another ballet would open young audiences up to other work then I don't think the idea should be discounted. As dreamy as Act II is, many people also go to the ballet for a rollicking good time. I probably don't get as transported away as much as I used to, but I usually enjoy ballet outings, which is fine. Edited May 30, 2014 by Sunrise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beryl H Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I'm happy with Giselle on it's own now, if another work was given at the ROH it would probably be very short followed by a 30 minute interval, so no thanks, nice to be able to stay to the end and see all the curtain calls for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hfbrew Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 If a short piece was to precede Giselle that I wasnt fussed about Id have more time to get there after work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Macmillan Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 PdQ: Your point on the nomenclature used back in the days of the 'Touring Company' is well made. Madame De Valois was, I believe, insistent that there was but one company, part of which toured. From the 1959-60 ROH Annual Report; "The policy, begun two years ago, of one Royal Ballet that can be divided for touring purposes (my emphasis) was fully implemented during the summer season that opened on 17th August, when the whole company appeared at the Royal Opera House........ There can be no doubt either of the logic or the benefit to be derived from such integration, though it still presents problems of nomenclature (me again)." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 Ah, yes, £2 was my very conservative suggestion for average spend for illustration purposes, working on the principle (ballet-half-pun unintended) that especially in a second interval a lot of people, cheapskates like myself included, wouldn't buy anything at all. It'd be interesting to know, though, what the average spend in an interval (either a first or second interval) is. Even at £2 per audience member, that additional interval in Giselle could feasibly pay two Artists' salaries for an entire year. I'm way to skinflint - well, skint - so stick to Adam's wine in a wobbly plastic cup. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angela Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Cranco stated his reason clearly: “the men had little to do in "Giselle" “. I can not see how it led to the conclusion “that ballet masters of the past found "Giselle" too short for a whole ballet evening”. May be I am poor at logic... Amelia, some other people have stated here that Giselle was presented with another ballet preceding it (posts # 2 and 3 f.e.), and at various companies - so it was not Cranko's idea, but he followed examples from the past. This was not a conclusion, just an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billboyd Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Wayne Eagling created Men Y Men to precede Act 1 of ENB's Giselle - to 'give the men something to do'. They did it very well! - There was no interval between Men Y Men and Act 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Wayne Eagling created Men Y Men to precede Act 1 of ENB's Giselle - to 'give the men something to do'. They did it very well! - There was no interval between Men Y Men and Act 1. Were the "possibly bare chested" young men dancing about amongst the Act 1 scenery for Giselle, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Wayne Eagling created Men Y Men to precede Act 1 of ENB's Giselle - to 'give the men something to do'. They did it very well! - There was no interval between Men Y Men and Act 1. I must admit I enjoyed it but wouldn't have died in a ditch if it hadn't been on the programme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billboyd Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Were the "possibly bare chested" young men dancing about amongst the Act 1 scenery for Giselle, then? Would have been interesting - but, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneMarriott Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Wayne Eagling created Men Y Men to precede Act 1 of ENB's Giselle - to 'give the men something to do'. They did it very well! - There was no interval between Men Y Men and Act 1. No wonder I was confused! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 It very of often used to be Afternoon of a Faun before Giselle back in the 70's but there was only then a pause before Giselle started......so no option for extra revenue from the bars etc!! As it happened I quite liked this little mini ballet before Giselle but am now quite happy to see it on its own. I certainly wouldn't want anything after Giselle .......just thinking about a few truly memorable performances......it would completely have ruined the whole experience to sit through anything else.......especially if primarily to serve bar purposes!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Allen Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 It occurs to me that when it was first performed, the Nutcracker was part of a double bill (with Tchaikovsky's opera Yolanta I think). I guess performances have got a lot shorter these days! A couple of people have remarked on tickets for Giselle being slightly cheaper at Covent Garden and have linked this to the length of the performance. I always thought that the price reflected the marketing people's belief that Giselle was slower to sell than other full-length ballets and that people needed the encouragement of slightly cheaper tickets. Am I mistaken in this belief? Can I also add I really like the idea, put forward by Bruce Wall, of preceding Giselle with The Cage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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