Dance and Drama Awards

[tomuchtallent]

The government should allocate a certain amount of fully funded places to each school, weather the school has boarding or not and let the school pick who the most talented are!and stop spending billions on arms and wars!!!

[taxi4ballet]

We are all looking at the same issue from numerous different viewpoints based on our relative earnings and other circumstances. I believe that we all need to pull together, and work on obtaining the best outcome possible for everyone. I also fear that we will not be able to get the tax-paying general public on our side if we concentrate too much on the effect this is having on a particular middle-income bracket; bearing in mind that the majority of people on an average wage may have little sympathy. Perhaps we need to focus on explaining to the political parties that there are many gifted and talented children who are being denied the opportunity to fulfil their talents through no fault of their own. Children who are gifted in say, art or mathematics are able to fulfil their potential entirely through the state system. Ballet is one of only a handful of careers which requires a high level of training from an early age in order to succeed, and at the moment, these particular children are being discriminated against because of their family income.

[Jan McNulty]

Earlier in the thread a couple of people mentioned that the government looks at the job success rate.  Perhaps another angle could be the fantastic preparation for any form of work that dance education gives you - the drive and commitment being only 2 aspects.  That is the one thing that always strikes me about dancers that join companies from school - not only their dedication but also their independence and maturity.  Speaking as someone with 2 wonderful non-dance nieces, I always think that dancers of a similar age in some ways seem so much more focussed and confident because of their training and the fact that they have been away from home at a really young age.

[carriecrafts]

I'm wondering whether this issue is something that ought to be exmined by the Education Select Committee.... There needs to be some clear thinking and recommendations to Government. I have a lot of respect for Graham Stuart, chair of the ESC, and would have faith that he would understand the inequities in the current system. From what I gather the ESC chooses which issues to examine:

 

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/education-committee/role/

 

Graham is not my MP but I intend to write to him to outline the situation...

[taxi4ballet]

My dd (aged 13) is bypassing everyone else and writing to the Prime Minister! She is going to explain just why she thinks the current system is unfair, and how it will affect her personally. In the car on the way to ballet today, she asked me what will happen to the unfunded place she has been offered at Tring. Se said "Will it go to someone who isn't as good as me, but has loads more money?" I said yes. She then said "That's SO NOT FAIR!!! The places should go to the BEST dancers, not the RICHEST!!! Right, THAT'S IT - I'm going to write to David Cameron and tell him just what the government is doing wrong!"

[hoobydigger]

@taxi4ballet - yay for your DD <3

[sophika9899]

That's brave and wonderful of your DD to go straight to the top, taxi4ballet but the Tring place may not go to someone who is rich but untalented but to someone who has plenty of talent AND money. There's a definite feeling in this thread that if you have the money to afford the fees you must somehow not have the talent. No school would take a child that can't dance just because they can pay.

[Aurora]

No but obviously the student that was offered the place in the first instance was considered to be more talented than the one on the reserve list - even if it was just fractionally!

[Aurora]

I'll be sending a letter along the same lines as Ribbons' tho my dd is only 9 and I have no idea what she will want to do when she's 16. It's definitely worthwhile trying to make a change though!

[taxi4ballet]

Sorry, elly, that's not what I meant' but from dd's point of view, she was offered the place first...

[tomuchtallent]

Anybody who is offered a place without funding must be of the same standard weather rich or poor.

[Jaylou62]

Have taken note of all your comments and ammended the petition accordingly (the petition is addressed to Rt Hon David Laws MP and every time the petition is signed, he gets an email telling him another person has signed and their comments; the petition also asks that the changes to DaDAs should be reconsidered and either the sliding scales be made fairer or the costs be in line with tuition fees/student loans).

 We are up to 336 signatures; please keep sharing so we can make a difference:) 

[Aurora]

 

Anybody who is offered a place without funding must be of the same standard weather rich or poor.

I disagree, they will all be of a very high standard but there are always those stronger and weaker than others. Those offered places first rather than going on a reserve list must be considered to have slightly more potential than the reserves. But yes, all a very high standard.

[tomuchtallent]

Well not exactly the same standard but similar with the funded students stronger and the waiting list must be a bit weaker so maybe it does happen that a non funded student can't pay so the place goes to a waiting list student who can pay.

Do the schools ask about finance before funded places are offered?

[sophika9899]

You're right, Aurora. I didn't think it through. Taxi4ballets DD was the first choice and the child that took the place she couldnt accept must've come from the waiting list. Sorry Taxi4ballet but with the spirit your DD seems to display she will get there in the end!

[All4dancers]

My dd was also offered an unfunded place at Tring that we had to turn down, but that was right back in November, there would have been loads of dancers after her that were equally good or better that they hadn't yet seen.  Of course, I'm not bringing her or anybody else down (she was also offered a place at Hammond), but they must offer far more places than they've got, knowing that a great many won't be able to afford them or would take up offers elsewhere funded or otherwise.  The same goes for Hammond - she personally knows 3 other girls from her audition that were also offered year 9 places.  Two of them were then also offered MDS places at Elmhurst which they accepted and are both due to start after half term.  I don't know how they gauge how many places they can offer?  I do agree though that to be offered a place at any of the schools is surely a validation of talent.  The thing is, there are just so many talented young dancers out there, so in actual fact, the ones that take up the places could be equally as good as those that had to turn them down.  I don't know, I'm absolutely confused by the whole process, so sorry for waffling!

[hfbrew]

I teach in an area where many people are in a position to pay fees and have therefore known many who were unsuccessful at Tring audiiions, the dance course especially will not take students that they don't consider right for their training. The application form I remember had a section which asked about ability to pay and whether or not a student would be applying for extra funding.

 

So someone who has got a place can rest assured that it is because of talent/potential, not because of wealth (if they are lucky enough to be wealthy that is!)

 

As far as I remember, once offered a place at Tring there is only a certain amount of time given before you have to pay the deposit to secure a place. So at each audition throughout the year it will be known how many places are still available. 

[Nana Lily]

Well just to depress you all further I spotted this on the website:

 

EligibilityYou must: be an EU citizen and have been living in the EU for 3 continuous years immediately before the start of your course.

https://www.gov.uk/dance-drama-awards

 

So basically UK tax payers are funding children from Europe to study at UK schools. Am I happy about this NO NO NO.

 

Another point to add to your letter to your local MP.

 

NL

[ballemum]

Signed

[afab]

Nana Lily, the same apply to any EU country and if British kids get in say Conservatoire National de Paris (extremely high level and kids from all over the world study there), it will be free of charge!

 

I read of parents wanting to send their kids abroad to study because it's cheaper or free but how do you think it gets cheaper or free?Because schools are subsidized by taxes!

 

The system must be fair to everyone which the new DADA isn't, that's what the problem is, not the fact we live in a global world!

[Interested Parent]

Does anyone have access to the dance 'newspapers'? Would be interested to know if any dance journalists have picked up on this and would write an article; maybe offer a parents view on the whole nightmare!

[balletla]

Hi NL,

I take your point but given the paltry amount of funding available here, I would think only a very few EU students from outside the UK would take up a place here when they have access to fantastic schools for a fraction of the price in their own country.

[Belljul]

Jaylou62, it might be worth giving the petition it's own post on this forum to highlight it? As someone has pointed out, balletco has over 1, 000 members, many who might still be unaware of the changes.

[Pasdebourree15]

Well just to depress you all further I spotted this on the website:

 

EligibilityYou must: be an EU citizen and have been living in the EU for 3 continuous years immediately before the start of your course.

https://www.gov.uk/dance-drama-awards

 

So basically UK tax payers are funding children from Europe to study at UK schools. Am I happy about this NO NO NO.

 

Another point to add to your letter to your local MP.

 

NL

 

Does this mean that since I am international, and my family has only been living in EU for less than a year, (when I audition for entry 2014 it will be 1 full year) I cannot be considered for funding? This is a bit worrying... 

[taxi4ballet]

My enterprising dd has done some research online and has come across the following statistics from www.justice.gov.uk - the total cost to the taxpayer (for the year 2010/11) for the prison service was £3,149,669,942 with each individual prisoner costing £37,163! So - it costs more to send a criminal to prison than it does to send a child to the Royal Ballet School!

[afab]

Pasdebourrée, unfortunately yes... You have to have been a resident for a full 3 calendar years to the best of my knowledge... 

[Pasdebourree15]

Thank you afab. Do you know if there's any sort of scholarship or other funding available at all? 

[tomuchtallent]

Yes!there are us Brits that have been out of the EU for more than 3 years that don't qualify!Now I have paid all my tax in the UK! And that's not fair!

[afab]

Tomuchtalent, you qualify for DADA as you are British. You have to have been living in the UK for 3 years OR being British. It's MDS we don't qualify for, even as Brits, as we're not living in the country. And that is NOT fair at all... I understand the residency issue for non Brits but not for British kids!

 

Pasdebourrée, I'm sorry I don't know of any scholarship but that doesn't mean they don't exist. You should try with your embassy, maybe...

[Pasdebourree15]

Thanks afab... I'll look into whats available... wish I could qualify though :/ 

[tutoo2much]

I don't think that very many of the young people who make it into the criminal justice system have had any of the opportunities that many of our dancing children have.  They have parents who can afford multiple dance classes per week, and actually are interested enough to invest the time and effort to take them.  Parents who pay (although many may struggle)for pointe shoes and leotards and the cost of ballet exams.  Some are driven or taken hundreds of miles for associate classes and attend summer schools, easter schools and master classes.  They  have an opportunity to express themselves through dance, learn that the harder they work the better they get, develop confidence and self esteem through finding something they can excel at. 

 

I also find the underlying assumption that poor people have it easier somehow is odd.    Poor means not having much money.  Therefore I doubt loads of 'poor' people will be turning up at classical ballet auditions having had sufficient training and getting the DaDa's, unless they have had access to a CAT scheme or something similar.

[balletla]

I don't think anyone has suggested that people who earn less have it easy, just that they get a disproportionate amount of help compared to people who earn more. There is an assumption that people who earn more have it easy but my partner and I are regularly turning in a 60 hour week (paid for 37.5hrs), doing work that used to be done by 2 or 3 people (vacancies not filled due to recession), have not had a pay increase for 5 years and are holding onto our jobs by our fingertips in this recession. But just because we earn a certain amount, we are not able to get any help. This is why funding should be available for all.

[Aurora]

And of course often those on a higher salary now did a lot more work earlier, at uni perhaps and ended up struggling to get by then and paying loans off for years. And maybe they have been the ones that have made sacrifices in their personal lives to try and provide for their families, if that has nudged them just over £70K I bet they wish they hadn't bothered now!!

 

I'm sure a few of the kids get the most funding because their parents don't work (and don't WANT to work) - that certainly isn't fair!

 

I obviously agree that those on lower incomes need more help but the cut-off for support shouldn't be so low as to make it absolutely impossible for people on that wage to send their child to ballet school.