Dance and Drama Awards

[2dancersmum]

balletbun - your son would automatically get the £9k tuition fee loan and the bulk of the maintenance loan.  The remaining percentage of the maintenance loan depends on income.  I think allowance is given for other dependent children but I cannot remember how much.  The grants available, unlike loans, do not need to be paid back, and these are totally based on income and only apply on a sliding scale where household income is less than £42k.  For university it is worth doing your research as the universites themselves also have various bursaries and awards available - some depending on income, others depending on the course and others on grades.  Be warned that at some universities also the maintenance loan does not actually cover the cost of living in halls of residence for the 1st year so check out accommodation costs too. 

[taxi4ballet]

Would offer to live on cheap ready meals but I'm worried it'd give me the trots!!

 

... and galloping to the bathroom...?

[BankruptMum]

I don't believe dependant's schooling fees are taken into account when considering other siblings choices.

[BankruptMum]

Encarte - well done to your daughter and good luck with the juggling! Xx

[balletbun]

Thanks for the replys, my son has a trip to Cambridge coming up soon he has been chosen by his school, so he aiming high. This is one of those occasions when having patents that have not gone to uni has come in handy !!! The worry is how do I choose who to fund ? As they keep pointing out to me of my children will be choosing my nursing home ????

[2dancersmum]

Funding for your son will be a lot less than for your DD as he will be eligible for his student loans.  Remember too that he will have long holidays when he can be earning too.

[HAIRBELLES]

Hi Balletbun

I hope you don't think this question is too intrusive and knowing nothing of wether your dd is at her favourite chosen school, but have you thought about auditioning your dd at other schools in order to try and secure MDS funding .

 

I too have found it hard to finance my elder dd through vocational school, like yourself it wasy choice and I would say yes it is all worth it!!!

 

Well done to your dd Ecarte.

[balletbun]

Hi hairbelles

 

No your question is not too intrusive, but I was was open with the school and said my dd would have to audition elsewhere just to chase the funding, but as they only help students prepare for 6 th form auditions we didn't bother this time, she will defiantly try next year when she has a years vocational training behind her. It was her first choice school and she is really happy there

I'm glad to hear its all worth it in the end

 

Thanks 2dancersmum son has already got his summer job as a life guard mapped out, talk about forward thinking I could learn a lot from my children ????

[Lisa O`Brien]

... and galloping to the bathroom...?

Probably due to consuming too much horse in one session.!!!!!

[Ecarte]

I've just heard from Tring that for the DADA audition that if you are earning over £70k then you are not eligible for an award. DD due to attend next week.

 

So this certainly makes the cheaper schools very attractive indeed... I wonder how this will play out in a few years in terms of graduate destinations from DADA approved schools?

[Jaylou62]

Don't think it makes a difference what income you are....a friend's dd's family are on benefits and she can't afford to audition anywhere except 1 school as she has family close by so there's no maintenance cost but only if she gets a scholarship. Elmhurst costs are £9,000 pa including tuition and maintenance (depending on your income band!) but don't forget the added extras on top!

  We certainly can't afford this and don't know who can:(

[Ecarte]

That's really sad Jaylou62.

 

The new DADA scheme is supposedly designed to help those with lower incomes more than the previous system. This is supposedly the major benefit of the new scheme.

If just paying for the auditions is too expensive then that element of the system should also be looked at but I've no good ideas how that should be implemented.

Looks like its not really helping anyone then!

 

All in all a well thought out change....not!

[Jaylou62]

I received a letter from Rt Hon. David Laws today. He says:

 

'I was sorry to read that you were disappointed with my previous letter.....in my earlier response, I explained that we are moving towards a fully means-tested scheme to enable us to target funding at those students who need the support the most (see my post above to know that this is not working in practice as those on low incomes cannot fund the cost of auditioning, travel, overnight accommodation, maintenance costs etc). The number of DaDAs available will however remain limited. Unfortunately that does mean that there will be families who will have to make difficult financial decisions as to whether they can support their choice for study at a private institution - and in making that decision, families need to take into account all the associated costs.......  

 

We appreciate that families with more than one child face greater costs in educating them and we considered this in looking at how DaDA should operate. However, we have had to consider that other families may also have a range of different financial pressures. Overall, we concluded that it would be prohibitively complicated to take into account families' wider financial circumstances.

 

Given our intention, therefore, to support the same number of DaDA students as we have in the past, the limited DaDA budget available, and the need to be fair to all families, we are not able to provide extra DaDA support for families with more than one son or daughter in education or training - whether that is privately or state-funded.

 

We will, however, continue to monitor how the scheme operates in practice, particularly how the new arrangements are working in 2013/14. As part of this we will monitor the scheme rules and income scales, and whether any adjustments need to be made in subsequent years in relation to families who may have more than one student participating in the DaDA scheme.

 

Although there are no state-maintained dedicated musical theatre or ballet schools, there is a range of state-funded courses available in performing arts, and there are other options that you and your daughters could explore in the state funded sector.

 

You also mentioned the issue of child benefit. I am afraid that there is little I can add to my previous reply regarding HMRC rules and regulations. I do appreciate that the advantages of specialist dance and drama education, and the opportunity to study for high level qualifications at a young age does have a cost for families whatever their household income - but in these difficult economic times, there are significant constraints on the extent to which Government is able to support young people who attend private education providers......

 

I have noted that you have started an e-petition about your concerns and appreciate that this is not the response you are hoping for. I do, however, hope that your daughters are successful in their studies, whichever direction they take.'

 

Great - we live on a council estate which is in the top 10% of the Government's Multiple Deprivation Index. We're working hard for our children to have a good life and actually leave the estate. We also learnt this week that we have lost our youth provision and are losing our Adventure Playground due to the cuts and then I get this letter. I also had an argument on Twitter with someone who told me they had funded 4 years and it's possible if you 'work hard'. I know that it's virtually impossible to find funding for individuals (I have worked in the Voluntary Sector). When I asked where I could find £30,000 pa he suddenly vanished. Sometimes I could just cry    

[balletla]

Oh dear Jaylou. It's unbelievable that he expects you to be reassured by the fact that they will monitoring the scheme to see if adjustments need to be made to rules and income levels in future years!

 

I also note that he re-emphasises that this is a choice of private education, whilst admitting that there is no state provision, but unhelpfully says that there are some state-funded performing arts courses, as if all performing arts are interchangeable!

 

It appears that the paltry sums on offer will not help anybody and I really wonder what the take-up of DaDA places will look like come September. Either people will put themselves in real financial difficulty to support their children (remember the family who sold their house to fund an Elmhurst non-MDS place?) or the intake will be very skewed just towards those who can afford it. If lots of people who qualifiy for funding still can't afford to take up places, then I wonder what will happen to the funding?

 

As I have said before, I wonder where the schools are on this? They cannot just sit back and let this unfold if the cost of places is prohibitive across all income levels. They will have to start competing with each other on price as well. I mean who would choose Tring at £30k a year when you can go to Elmhurst for £24k a year, for example?

 

I haven't had a response to my letter yet but I don't expect it to be any different to yours.

[taxi4ballet]

I got the Dancing Times today, and was quite surprised to find not a single mention of the DaDa funding issue... odd when it is going to affect so many of their readers (not to mention advertisers!).

[Millie3]

Ribbons: " It appears that the paltry sums on offer will not help anybody and I really wonder what the take-up of DaDA places will look like come September. Either people will put themselves in real financial difficulty to support their children (remember the family who sold their house to fund an Elmhurst non-MDS place?) or the intake will be very skewed just towards those who can afford it" 

 

I'd be very interested to know how many decide not to attend the finals at the Dada schools in the next few weeks-  we've already informed the school dd had a final for that she won't be attending as there is no way we can finance it and received a lovely e-mail in response.  However I'm sure these schools must be looking closely at the financial forms that have been submitted in order to determine who would benifit from a dada and those who could prehaps receive some sort of scholarship/bursary instead. 

 

Somehow feel that the finals at Central/RBS/Rambert might be a little more pressured than in previous years - as they will be some applicants only option.

 

Must add good luck to all those attending finals soon and that a way is found for all those chosen by the schools to attend.

[Dragonlady]

We have taken the decision that dd will attend the DADA finals (if offered...we are still waiting for EMBS audition results!) but when we are asked to supply the usual financial information we are offering them a LOT of additional personal financial information....it is up to the schools what they do with it but if they don't know why the finals are turned down or they do not have all the facts and figures when it comes to their financial teams offering DADAs they may assume that either parents are happy with the system of have decided to take up offers elsewhere.....

 

I am personally very offended by the rather trite reply that Jaylou62 got....but am reminded that this was the attitude of many in office about Olympic training for all but the most high profile sports....not helpful but true.

 

T

[KathyG]

In the recent newsletter we received from Elmhurst they are looking at fund raising to be able to support 30 students per year in 6th form.though it doesn't look as though it will make much of a difference as it looks as though it could be about 5,000 per student.  They have to raise the money first though!  Have to say we applied to the fund and we fall into middle iincome bracket and were told we didn't met their criteria.

 

The Elmhurst Fund presently helps a number of students who struggle with the costs of their training and we are keen to increase this support, as government funding is reduced and we look to expand student numbers. We are, therefore, looking for additional funding to assist some 30 Sixth Form students each year to be the most versatile and employable of performers and choreographers on their graduation. The annual cost of this support will be approximately £150,000, of which we have already raised £46,068 for 2013/14. 

 

[Interested Parent]

I wholeheartedly agree with everyone on this. Clearly Mr Laws does not know the difference between 'classical ballet' and 'performing arts' in general and, although it may be hoped that the figures and scales will be reviewed, that does not help the majority of parents and DCs who are suffering this ridiculous 'fag packet' solution that he has come up with. We have had to rethink our situation and had that very difficult conversation with our DD about giving up her ballet dream after years of hardwork and dedication. I also noticed the lack of print on this issue in Dancing Times but did notice a plethora of adverts for schools without the infamous word 'DaDa' in any of them! Shouldn't the schools be working WITH parents on this. After all our children are their future!! I can only hope that the schools are reading this thread........

[JulieW]

Grrrr - stupid man - a student with the ability to become a classical ballet dancer but can't afford the fees.... It's ok they can go to a local college's performing arts course.... NOT!!

 

Can you tell I'm cross?!

[Balletgirlsplease]

http://www.rambertschool.org.uk/courses-how-to-apply/undergraduate/

Anyone considered a degree course? Any good?

Are they any good?

At least the student could access the £9000 a year student loan.

Just a thought.

[Interested Parent]

I'm sure we've probably all considered that option. Unfortunately it cuts down your options considerably (Tring, Hammond, ENBS, Elmhurst, Northern Ballet all DaDa). I reckon Central and Rambert will be rolling in talented dancers accepting places. I know the Uni funding option is contentious but what would be the reason for the DaDa schools not giving up the Trinity diploma and changing over to the undergrad Foundation Degree? Would stop the block for every child with talent and give our children the same education rights as other non-ballet kids.

[Balletgirlsplease]

It's interesting that they take students from 16 on a BA course!

[meadowblythe]

Notice that the royal scottish conservatoire has put its closing date back to 31st March. 

 

Like many, I have long held out against starting degrees at 16 on the grounds that it cuts off options later, but to put a different spin on things ..

 

From what I can see, the cost of funding my child through a second degree, given they will get some study credit for the first, could be less than the cost of 6th form education.  Admittedly I am looking at the OU/distance learning route, but it makes me feel more comfortable about the BA at 16 route.

 

And I have found that my OU degree is of slightly more use to me than my original degree taken via a more conventional route!

 

Meadowblythe

[Interested Parent]

There was a bit of discussion on another thread about the means-test DaDas this year and how they will be allocated taking into account merit and 'pot of money' so I thought I would add this link here.  Many of you will have already seen it, however the panel down the side has an interesting pdf entitled DaDa provisers scheme guide that may be of some interest:

 

http://www.education.gov.uk/childrenandyoungpeople/youngpeople/studentsupport/a00203099/dada-scheme

 

It would be interesting to know if this is actually how each school is administering it.

[balletla]

IP I have just received this same information in response to FOI. Some interesting points to note:

 

1.The new students’ allocation will be calculated based on historical trends in take-up by income band meaning that each provider should be able to afford to support a similar number of students as they have done historically.

So basically they have looked at the income of previous students (how acurate was that, given that the previous DaDA wasn't means tested so income didn't matter?) and allocated funding to cover a similar number of students. So whilst it is a pot of money received by the school, it could fund more or fewer places from year to year, depending on how much the incomes of the students vary from last year's average profile i.e. if everybody applying in one year was a low income student, the pot might not go as far as if everyone applying was a high income student.

 

2.Providers should note that any underspend in 2013/14 will be reconciled at the end of the academic year – underspend cannot be carried forward into subsequent years. Full details of the reconciliation process will be issued separately.

So any unused funding cannot be carried over to the following year i.e. like any budget, if you don't spend it, you lose it and possibly don't get it reallocated next year..... i.e. the schools will make sure they give enough places to people earning under £70k to use the budget, possibly at the expense of someone earning over £70k

 

3. There is a flow chart in the documentation which clearly says that PLACES should be awarded in order of the most talented BEFORE income is declared.

This is presumably a pathetic attempt to prevent schools from playing games with the funding depending on the income profile of the students - well clearly that isn't going to work as we have all been asked for income information prior to the final. Don't tell me that the schools won't be trading off places and funding.

 

The whole thing is a joke!!

Edited February 28, 2013 by Ribbons

[Guest Autumn days]

If I am reading this correctly this does imply there will be a direct relationship between the number of DaDAs a school is able to offer and the income of the most talented students. If those at the top of the list have low incomes then fewer places will be available and vice versa. 

 

Edited to say that I was posting at the same time as ribbons!

Edited February 28, 2013 by mum in a spin

[Ecarte]

If I am reading this correctly this does imply there will be a direct relationship between the number of DaDAs a school is able to offer and the income of the most talented students. If those at the top of the list have low incomes then fewer places will be available and vice versa. 

 

Edited to say that I was posting at the same time as ribbons!

 

It would appear so. It will be a complete nightmare for both parents and providers......how thrilled are we to be the guinea pig year!

[Interested Parent]

This is why in the other thread I was interested to hear that parents did submit their income information last year. They must have been using that information to determine a profile for this years slicing and dicing of their total budget and yes it's unlikely that the priority of talent will always override the need to spend all of the budget or adversely end up with fewer lower income-related DaDa. Basically you can analyse it every which way and I agree that it will be difficult admin for the schools. What I've been searching for is the new DaDa income declaration form so if anyone can find it please post a link.

[Pas de Quatre]

dd  was auditioning for 6th form entry in 2009 and we had to submit income then before the DaDa audition at Tring, so it is nothing new.  They did indeed say that DaDa funding would be by merit with income being the tie-breaker if two candidates were equal. 

[balletla]

Yes but according to the new process, places should now be awarded before income information is requested. Just received invite to ENBS final and they seem to be doing it 'properly' and have not asked for income information, unlike Elmhurst who have.

 

Interestingly, there is a DaDA fact sheet enclosed with the documents. In addition to all the stuff we already know, it says that funding for the DaDA scheme will remain at 'approximately £14million per year' and that about the same total number of students will receive DaDA awards. 

[Pavlala]

Could someone who has received this income info request tell me what year frame they are using? I'm presuming it's April2012-13 ? I won't be in your dismal position until next year, but would still like to know, please.

[Guest Autumn days]

OK, lets assume that a school uses all the money in it's DaDA pot before filling all the available spaces. What then? I wonder if they would carry on down the talent list until they could find someone that could afford teh fees or cut their losses because they only want the best? Indeed, do schools even now award ALL their places on merit or do some get in just because they can pay?