Dance and Drama Awards

[Jazzpaws]

And of course often those on a higher salary now did a lot more work earlier, at uni perhaps and ended up struggling to get by then and paying loans off for years. And maybe they have been the ones that have made sacrifices in their personal lives to try and provide for their families, if that has nudged them just over £70K I bet they wish they hadn't bothered now!!

 

I'm sure a few of the kids get the most funding because their parents don't work (and don't WANT to work) - that certainly isn't fair!

 

I obviously agree that those on lower incomes need more help but the cut-off for support shouldn't be so low as to make it absolutely impossible for people on that wage to send their child to ballet school.

I find your assumptions that those on higher salaries have worked harder, struggled and made more sacrifices than those on lower salaries totally unreasonable !

I have been to university and have also worked very hard and struggled. Due to personal circumstances and location, I now earn less than £18,000 per year and have to work long antisocial hours to do this. I manage to find the money and the time for my daughter's dancing lessons which is a real struggle, but a pleasure to make the effort because of her dedication.

I am new to this (she is looking at 2014 entry), but I have been reading comments about the poor getting everything paid for, even uniform, travel and shoes. This seems surprising to me - from what I have seen on the websites, IF my daughter is awarded a DaDA, the fees would be funded, but the maintenance portion of the DaDa is around £5,000. From all accounts, it would cost around £10,000 for her to live in hostel accommodation or for boarding fees at Tring. It seems that I will have to find around £5,000 per year, which on my salary is impossible. I have not seen any information about free uniform, travel etc.

Apart from RBS, only Central and Rambert offer a package where student finance can be applied for, so it looks like that is the only possible route at the moment.

In my opinion, it is very hard for everyone apart from the super rich (must to the lottery this week), but please don't imply that it is easier for those on a low salary or that those getting most funding are too lazy to work.

[Aurora]

You seem to have overlooked the use of the words 'often' and 'maybe' in my statement as well as 'a FEW of the kids'. You'll see that I did say I agreed that those on lower income need more help and I don't begrudge them that at all.

[taxi4ballet]

Funnily enough, it is possible to go to university, work all the hours God sends, make every sacrifice possible to help your children, and still end up in a job that pays a pittance.

[Jaylou62]

We're up to over 400 signatures on the petition but have been blocked from Twitter from sharing the petition so think it's been reported (no idea why it should though as it's only a petition) This means somehow we have to get the word out to as many people as possible but can no longer use this medium.....any ideas??

Am approaching my local press as the first step and perhaps we can all do that to raise the profile.

[Aurora]

Funnily enough, it is possible to go to university, work all the hours God sends, make every sacrifice possible to help your children, and still end up in a job that pays a pittance.

Absolutely! But those that do all that are more likely to end up with a better paid job than those that don't.

[taxi4ballet]

Oh, I must remember to show this thread to my husband when he comes home from work at 10pm tonight after working for 14 hours. I'm sure he will be thrilled to find out that he only has himself to blame.

[Jazzpaws]

You seem to have overlooked the use of the words 'often' and 'maybe' in my statement as well as 'a FEW of the kids'. You'll see that I did say I agreed that those on lower income need more help and I don't begrudge them that at all.

Are you trying to excuse your judgmental attitude? 

[Balletgirlsplease]

Careful Taxi4ballet you nearly had a mind of your own there and a different opinion!!!

I happen to know many people who thought it was a god given right to go to university. Never worked hard, and walked into very well paid jobs where they can work even less hard doing not a lot for a very decent wage thankyou very much so let's not make sweeping statements!

[balletla]

C'mon folks - everyone has their own set of circumstances which won't be helped by prolonging the argument. I think what this thread is showing very clearly is that everyone deserves help with funding until they get to the point that they can readily afford to pay out £26k without too much pain. 

 

Eloise, I think personal nasty sarcastic remarks are uncalled for.

 

Jaylou - I don't know anything about Twitter but my partner says it may think you are a spammer if you are sending out that amount of tweets?? Might be OK again in a day or two.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Ribbons

[Balletgirlsplease]

C'mon folks - everyone has their own set of circumstances which won't be helped by prolonging the argument. I think what this thread is showing very clearly is that everyone deserves help with funding until they get to the point that they can readily afford to pay out £26k without too much pain.

 

Eloise, I think personal nasty remarks are uncalled for.

 

Jaylou - I don't know anything about Twitter but my partner says it may think you are a spammer if you are sending out that amount of tweets?? Might be OK again in a day or two.

I was actually supporting Taxi4ballet.

It was sarcasm.

[tomuchtallent]

If a child is talented it has nothing to do with the parents being rich, poor,educated, working all day and night!All talented children who are offered funding are equal and should be able to except that place!

[Jazzpaws]

C'mon folks - everyone has their own set of circumstances which won't be helped by prolonging the argument. I think what this thread is showing very clearly is that everyone deserves help with funding until they get to the point that they can readily afford to pay out £26k without too much pain. 

 

Eloise, I think personal nasty sarcastic remarks are uncalled for.

 

Jaylou - I don't know anything about Twitter but my partner says it may think you are a spammer if you are sending out that amount of tweets?? Might be OK again in a day or two.

Well, Ribbons, it would be great to be earning 26k, let alone paying it out! I am new to this, but having looked at all the websites, don't quite know where all this 'free everything for those on low incomes' comes from, but my daughter is for 2014 entry, so it may become clearer. I do wish (as I'm sure many do) that the student finance would be available to these kids that have worked so hard for years. Seems that Central and Rambert have it right there, in that they can borrow the whole amount of tuition fees, and of course RBS is unique anyway! Let's just hope everyone gets where they want to be.

[if only!]

I've never posted before... so a bit nervous! (And will probably hit the wrong key!) So here it goes...

And it's a bit long... sorry!

 

I have read with interest and gleaned much from this fantastic encyclopaedic forum. I’ve donated my tenner and consider it money well worth spent. Though happy to read as an “outsider” it is this issue of
funding that has prompted me to join in the forum.

I too feel uncomfortable with the tone adopted by some, regarding the unfairness/disproportionate funding for families on lower pay scales. Even with the DADA these low earners will have to find a large sum,
(relative to their income). I know of parents on low incomes who can simply not afford to go down the DADA route.

If you want support from all do not alienate lower earners by suggesting a lack of work ethic. Be careful what you say! Uni doesn’t always mean harder working young people. I work in a school where hard work doesn’t
always equate intelligence. Some naturally bright children rest a little too much on their laurels whereas those lower ability will work hard to just achieve an average. Of course a lot of bright children do work exceptionally hard,
and I find dedicated dancers, more often than not, seem to be in this category! 

Please don’t say those on higher salaries did a lot more work earlier. Both my husband and I are post-graduates and due to circumstance outside our control have found ourselves this past year as low earners. 

 

I recently spent a night with my frail, ill father whilst they tried to find him a bed in hospital. A 95 year old lady opposite had spent over 6 hours waiting in a wheelchair. The nurses and auxiliaries were working
their socks off. These lovely people are on such low pay and they do such a hard difficult job, yet with an aging population, the need for carers and health assistants, (the underpaid), will greatly increase.

My husband is amazed, that in this current economic climate, a DADA scheme in any form is still affordable. Like many taxpayers he will see health and education (alas, not dance) as needing priority. I’m NOT of that ilk.  I was
trained in the Arts (ah! that’s it! that’s why I’m on such a low income!!) I love all forms of it. It's what makes us, us humans, us! If that makes sense! A life with out the Arts, in all its many guises, is a dreary one, an unhealthy one. Also, the Arts are one of our greatest exports, (see how successful the Against EBACC petition was, many big Art organisations including individuals signed it). I think there should be state funding, but, on this forum, please don’t knock the lower earners.  Society works on all levels.

 

IF ONLY there was sensible state funding for all our talented children... regardless of income.

 

(sudden after-thought... have you thought of contacting the big Art organisations? To have them on board would be great!)

[Jazzpaws]

I've never posted before... so a bit nervous! (And will probably hit the wrong key!) So here it goes...

And it's a bit long... sorry!

 

I have read with interest and gleaned much from this fantastic encyclopaedic forum. I’ve donated my tenner and consider it money well worth spent. Though happy to read as an “outsider” it is this issue of

funding that has prompted me to join in the forum.

I too feel uncomfortable with the tone adopted by some, regarding the unfairness/disproportionate funding for families on lower pay scales. Even with the DADA these low earners will have to find a large sum,

(relative to their income). I know of parents on low incomes who can simply not afford to go down the DADA route.

If you want support from all do not alienate lower earners by suggesting a lack of work ethic. Be careful what you say! Uni doesn’t always mean harder working young people. I work in a school where hard work doesn’t

always equate intelligence. Some naturally bright children rest a little too much on their laurels whereas those lower ability will work hard to just achieve an average. Of course a lot of bright children do work exceptionally hard,

and I find dedicated dancers, more often than not, seem to be in this category! 

 

Please don’t say those on higher salaries did a lot more work earlier. Both my husband and I are post-graduates and due to circumstance outside our control have found ourselves this past year as low earners. 

 

I recently spent a night with my frail, ill father whilst they tried to find him a bed in hospital. A 95 year old lady opposite had spent over 6 hours waiting in a wheelchair. The nurses and auxiliaries were working

their socks off. These lovely people are on such low pay and they do such a hard difficult job, yet with an aging population, the need for carers and health assistants, (the underpaid), will greatly increase.

My husband is amazed, that in this current economic climate, a DADA scheme in any form is still affordable. Like many taxpayers he will see health and education (alas, not dance) as needing priority. I’m NOT of that ilk.  I was

trained in the Arts (ah! that’s it! that’s why I’m on such a low income!!) I love all forms of it. It's what makes us, us humans, us! If that makes sense! A life with out the Arts, in all its many guises, is a dreary one, an unhealthy one. Also, the Arts are one of our greatest exports, (see how successful the Against EBACC petition was, many big Art organisations including individuals signed it). I think there should be state funding, but, on this forum, please don’t knock the lower earners.  Society works on all levels.

 

IF ONLY there was sensible state funding for all our talented children... regardless of income.

 

(sudden after-thought... have you thought of contacting the big Art organisations? To have them on board would be great!)

Well said If only!

[Evie]

I have 2 children that dance, one at vocational school on mds funding, his ds sister has travelled to Paris and Mexico entertaining.

I have a son at university studying an English Literature degree. He wants to travel and possibly move to New Zealand/Austrailia.

I have a son with Aspergers, who is socially inept, with minimal education and a disabled daughter who will find any work difficult.

2 of these children will possibly have to rely on the benefit system for their entire lives, through no fault of their own.

 

Please do not be narrow minded and judgemental. 

 

My children and their children will all have very different lives, some will be able to support their children in their hobbies and interests better than their siblings.

None of them are idle, they all lead very busy lives. The strong should help the weak and this is what I have taught my children.

[if only!]

Thankyou Jazzpaws. You wouldn't believe how nervous I was about posting on this forum... I don't even do Facebook!

I'll post something more positive next time. This forum is a fantastic resource and I don't know where I'd be without it!

[Balletgirlsplease]

I've never posted before... so a bit nervous! (And will probably hit the wrong key!) So here it goes...

And it's a bit long... sorry!

 

 

I have read with interest and gleaned much from this fantastic encyclopaedic forum. I’ve donated my tenner and consider it money well worth spent. Though happy to read as an “outsider” it is this issue of

funding that has prompted me to join in the forum.

 

I too feel uncomfortable with the tone adopted by some, regarding the unfairness/disproportionate funding for families on lower pay scales. Even with the DADA these low earners will have to find a large sum,

(relative to their income). I know of parents on low incomes who can simply not afford to go down the DADA route.

 

If you want support from all do not alienate lower earners by suggesting a lack of work ethic. Be careful what you say! Uni doesn’t always mean harder working young people. I work in a school where hard work doesn’t

always equate intelligence. Some naturally bright children rest a little too much on their laurels whereas those lower ability will work hard to just achieve an average. Of course a lot of bright children do work exceptionally hard,

and I find dedicated dancers, more often than not, seem to be in this category!

 

Please don’t say those on higher salaries did a lot more work earlier. Both my husband and I are post-graduates and due to circumstance outside our control have found ourselves this past year as low earners.

 

 

I recently spent a night with my frail, ill father whilst they tried to find him a bed in hospital. A 95 year old lady opposite had spent over 6 hours waiting in a wheelchair. The nurses and auxiliaries were working

their socks off. These lovely people are on such low pay and they do such a hard difficult job, yet with an aging population, the need for carers and health assistants, (the underpaid), will greatly increase.

 

My husband is amazed, that in this current economic climate, a DADA scheme in any form is still affordable. Like many taxpayers he will see health and education (alas, not dance) as needing priority. I’m NOT of that ilk. I was

trained in the Arts (ah! that’s it! that’s why I’m on such a low income!!) I love all forms of it. It's what makes us, us humans, us! If that makes sense! A life with out the Arts, in all its many guises, is a dreary one, an unhealthy one. Also, the Arts are one of our greatest exports, (see how successful the Against EBACC petition was, many big Art organisations including individuals signed it). I think there should be state funding, but, on this forum, please don’t knock the lower earners. Society works on all levels.

 

IF ONLY there was sensible state funding for all our talented children... regardless of income.

 

(sudden after-thought... have you thought of contacting the big Art organisations? To have them on board would be great!)

Very well said!

[Tulip]

RIGHT, lets all pull together. Get your claws back in, have a glass of wine or two take a breath and remember we are all friends here to support each other. I have my own personal thoughts and feelings regarding funding but I have deliberately not put them on the forum. I know that if I did I may possibly offend some one and also what I mean may actually come across in written form not what was meant. I wouldn't want to fall out with anybody as I really value all of your advice from time to time. So come on everyone play nicely and as the saying goes if you can't play nicely, don't play at all. I am not saying you can't express your oppinions but there are ways of doing it without being rude.

[Aurora]

 

Are you trying to excuse your judgmental attitude?

You see it as judgmental, I see it as fact! I was very careful not to generalise and state that it was that way for everyone. I'm pretty sure statistics would prove me right!

[Aurora]

 

Oh, I must remember to show this thread to my husband when he comes home from work at 10pm tonight after working for 14 hours. I'm sure he will be thrilled to find out that he only has himself to blame.

I have no idea what this comment is supposed to mean or if it is directed at me.

[Jazzpaws]

You see it as judgmental, I see it as fact! I was very careful not to generalise and state that it was that way for everyone. I'm pretty sure statistics would prove me right!

Will you please explain the fact please, and the statistics.

[Aurora]

The ONLY people I implied were lazy were those that don't WANT to work. I stated that there were probably only a FEW of them. I am not implying that anyone who works but doesnt earn a high salary is lazy or that anyone who doesn't work through no fault of their own is lazy.

 

The fact is that more people on high salaries (certainly in younger generations) will have a degree or some form of higher education than those that dont. That's not an opinion, it's a statement of fact.

 

I am disgusted at the way people are speaking to me. This forum is meant to be a place where we share and discuss our views. I did not intend to cause any offence and really can't understand how I have when I was very careful NOT to generalise and only state what I believed to be true in the majority of cases.

 

I do not begrudge people on lower incomes getting more support at all, i have never said that is unfair. My whole point was that those just beyond the cut-off point should get some support too because its clear they too can't afford the fees in most cases.

 

When jellybeans left I actually sent her a message of support saying I know how it feels when everyone misinterprets what you say and jumps down your throat. Here it is happening again. I am always respectful of other people's views even if I don't agree with them so kindly stop calling me judgmental, narrow minded and offensive and find a way to respect my opinion as I do yours.

[Evie]

I'm not getting at anyone .......but would like to point out that my friend earns £70,000+ and hasn't got a degree, whereas my friends son works in a surf shack and he's got a 1st in history from Oxford Uni!!! Generalising never proves anyone's point!!!!

[Jazzpaws]

The ONLY people I implied were lazy were those that don't WANT to work. I stated that there were probably only a FEW of them. I am not implying that anyone who works but doesnt earn a high salary is lazy or that anyone who doesn't work through no fault of their own is lazy.

 

The fact is that more people on high salaries (certainly in younger generations) will have a degree or some form of higher education than those that dont. That's not an opinion, it's a statement of fact.

 

I am disgusted at the way people are speaking to me. This forum is meant to be a place where we share and discuss our views. I did not intend to cause any offence and really can't understand how I have when I was very careful NOT to generalise and only state what I believed to be true in the majority of cases.

 

I do not begrudge people on lower incomes getting more support at all, i have never said that is unfair. My whole point was that those just beyond the cut-off point should get some support too because its clear they too can't afford the fees in most cases.

 

When jellybeans left I actually sent her a message of support saying I know how it feels when everyone misinterprets what you say and jumps down your throat. Here it is happening again. I am always respectful of other people's views even if I don't agree with them so kindly stop calling me judgmental, narrow minded and offensive and find a way to respect my opinion as I do yours.

I would like to wish you and your family the very best for the future

Perhaps you would like to do the same.

[Jazzpaws]

I would like to wish you and your family the very best for the future

Perhaps you would like to do the same.

And to be honest, you are the one that started posting statements about income, sacrifices and those who do not WANT to work.

[Loulabelle]

This is a obviously a very difficult and unsettling time for those hoping for DADA's to help fund their DC's future dance education. It has raised many different points of view and people have different opinions depending on family circumstances. It has caused a lot of passionate and emotional responses and I wholly respect all of your points of view. I have followed this thread carefully as I appreciate all the advice given and will be at the point of applying for 6th form for my own DD in the not so distant future. I am however appalled at the way some of you speak to each other. Surely this forum, whilst encouraging different points of view is not the place to make jibes at each other and make personal and sarcastic comments to other members. We all as members need to respect each others opinions and circumstances should we wish to share them. No two families will be in exactly the same financial situation and none of us know each others income and expenses nor should we have to justify them. Please can we all try and respect and support each other calmly?

[JulieW]

Ok - I'm stepping in as moderator.

 

Please keep this thread to discussing the change in the DaDA system (if anyone still had any questions).

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and this is a place to support eachother.

[Dragonlady]

I have read all of the previous posts and some of them have left me feeling quite sad. 

 

I have a dancer who is directly affected by these changes and her future is quite uncertain.  It is not, and never really has been about who earns what or how they do/do not earn it.

This is about talented children today, now, facing a very bleak prospect of non affordable training and hence no future career in classical ballet.

 

If you had to face my DD as we had to do this weekend and explain that her years of sacrificing birthday parties, sleepovers and personal local  friendships as she has competed with other talented dancers to train her way to 6th form is all for nothing........to her, it is not about money or how much/little there is, it is about doing something that makes you wake up every day happy inside and being able through dance to pass those feelings on to other people just by watching you.....all gone because someone in government was in too much of a hurry and needed to tick some funding cut boxes!

 

As parents/carers we ALL make sacrifices for our dancers as we believe in them, it really does not matter to a child how much 'disposable income' we have as long as they are supported to the best of OUR OWN ability.

 

Please make sure we are focusing our feelings toward the correct place....ie the faceless people who made the aribtrary decision that has a huge impacts on all sorts of lives.  We will personally be fighting hard (as we have all along) to make sure that - if she has the talent - then her dreams can be a reality.

 

We are currently talking to all sorts of 'money people' as well as writing to out local paper and MP. Please, lets band together to fight for our children....not each other.

 

Trudi

[JulieW]

Thank you Trudi

[Ecarte]

My dd has just been offered a DADA. Delighted she's been offered one but wish she'd been born a year earlier!

[Kat09]

Congratulations to your daughter ecarte - hope it still enables your daughter to follow her dreams

[balletbun]

Thinking well ahead, my dd is currently yr 7 vocational school but with no mds funding, finding it nearly impossible to meet the fees at present, and may have to think about her coming home. Does anyone know if what I pay for her will be taken into account when my son applies for uni. Dd will be in her last year by then if she lasts that long !! Paying what I do now pushes us below the poverty line, but it is currently my choice to do that. I took a huge gamble and its not quite paying off. If I hang on and keep her there will my son be able to get his grant or whatever is needed to go to uni these days so at least I know he can follow his chosen career path too. Like most siblings of dancing children he has already sacrificed so much.

 

If someone could give me the magic answer to, is it really all worth it ???? I would be grateful

 

 

I do work full time and currently get child benefit because I don't earn enough for them to take that off me thank goodness

 

I have just started to go into panic mode as my son has started looking at unis with his current school

[Ecarte]

Hubby is finance department! I am welfare,transport and administration......so I am hoping we can do something but its not clear cut!

 

Would offer to live on cheap ready meals but I'm worried it'd give me the trots!!

 

A long night with the calculator and a glass of something chilled ahead!