Sim Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 5 minutes ago, zxDaveM said: Yes, the National Princesses leading their national dancers is way better than having 6 prospective brides clashing in the same dress!! My only problem (a small one) is the ending. But then many other SL's falter there - so much plot to get into a short stretch of magnificent music I agree that the most disappointing thing for me about this production is the ending. The music tells me that the lovers are united in an apotheosis leading to eternal love. That’s why I loved the ending of the Dowell production. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnePigeon Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Guests aren’t necessary and I feel our principals are under used as it is, but I would welcome the opportunity to see some world class dancers who I may otherwise be unlikely to get to see. Seeing as the RB dancers seem to be guesting all over the world, it might be nice to have some reciprocal arrangements on occasion. The best situation would be for our principals to have more opportunities on their home stage and to have the occasional guest. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Regarding the Scarlett Swan Lake I like it except for the beginning, the ending, and perhaps just a little less of Benno though it’s good to have larger roles for the male dancers. I think it was his costume which seemed a bit out of place and don’t think he should actually have more dancing than Siegfried though seem to remember that this character was introduced in some Russian version because the senior Principal at the time who played Siegfried was no longer in his prime….not sure if this is correct!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeralds Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 2 hours ago, Geoff said: Those familiar with Liam Scarlett’s life might hazard an explanation - but this is not the place for such speculations. To be fair, Peter Wright's wonderful Swan Lake for BRB also gives Benno a lot of dancing, as quite a lot of other choreographers around the world have also done. It's basically a way to use up the Act 1 pas de trois music and Act 3 divertissement music which are both very nice, and they could either both go to unnamed random divertissement characters (boring for newbies to follow) or give both to a promising soloist as a stepping stone to principal roles, with the logic that a non-royal friend of the Prince would be invited to perform for him. A few choreographers have put Siegfried into the Act 1 pas de trois instead of Benno or an unnamed character but either a) it looks odd that he's celebrating if he looks sad (after his father's death) or b) if he's happy (in productions where his father died years ago and his mother is ruling as Regent or perhaps was joint ruler -like William III and Mary II- or sole ruler) he looks like he's providing the entertainment to himself and his courtiers at a party thrown for him which would be the wrong protocol. I don't think there's anything significant to one choreographer about Benno having a lot of dancing when one considers these above reasons but would like the casting- even if just provisional and may need to change- to be announced in advance together with the Odette/Odile and Siegfried casting, the way BRB does. Edited January 14 by Emeralds 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 4 minutes ago, Emeralds said: To be fair, Peter Wright's wonderful Swan Lake also gives Benno a lot of dancing as do quite a lot of other choreographers around the world have previously done. It's basically a way to use up the Act 1 pas de trois music and Act 3 divertissement music which are both very nice, and they could either both go to unnamed random divertissement characters (boring for newbies to follow) or give both to a promising soloist as a stepping stone to principal roles, with the logic that a non-royal friend of the Prince would be invited to perform for him. A few choreographers have put Siegfried into the Act 1 pas de trois but either a) it looks odd that he's celebrating if he looks sad (after his father's death) or b) if he's happy (in productions where his father died years ago and his mother is ruling as Regent or perhaps was joint ruler -like William III and Mary II- or sole ruler) he looks like he's providing the entertainment to himself and his courtiers at a party thrown for him which would be the wrong protocol. I don't think there's anything significant to one choreographer about Benno having a lot of dancing when one considers these above reasons but would like the casting- even if just provisional and may need to change- to be announced in advance together with the Odette/Odile and Siegfried casting, the way BRB does. I only saw this production on the cinema but I'm so used to seeing SPW's production for BRB that I can't understand all the fuss about Benno having a bigger role. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said: I only saw this production on the cinema but I'm so used to seeing SPW's production for BRB that I can't understand all the fuss about Benno having a bigger role. Me neither 😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, capybara said: although Ferri is an extraordinary artist (requested by McGregor) but now contributing more widely to the RB’s output. Ferri though has her roots in the Royal Ballet. She was trained at the RBS Upper School, and began her stellar career in the company. Perhaps her return to Covent Garden should be considered less as guesting, more as a return to her family! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandra_Ferri 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate_N Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 These two comments, from different posters, show a tiny snippet of how difficult the job is: 20 hours ago, Emeralds said: would have preferred more runs and performances of classical works like Ashton, MacMillan, Cranko etc and shorter runs of unpopular modern creations. and then 19 hours ago, Cayetana said: I think some of the runs of the classics are too long, even if I enjoyed them! would like to see even more variety of old works and new arrivals. Nowadays, the role of AD of these kinds of companies is hugely complex, and underpaid for the skills and experience and talents required. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeralds Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 minutes ago, Kate_N said: These two comments, from different posters, show a tiny snippet of how difficult the job is: and then Nowadays, the role of AD of these kinds of companies is hugely complex, and underpaid for the skills and experience and talents required. I didn't disagree with Cayetana (who was taking about long Nutcracker/Swan Lake/Sleeping Beauty runs, I believe, whereas I was pointing out that the Scenes de Ballet, Concerto, Sylvia runs were too short - certainly the Sylvia sold out so I'm puzzled it wasn't repeated in 2019. And that Cranko doesn't even get an airing apart from Onegin although he did create works for RB. The modern works weren't a criticism - in fact I'm one of the more enthusiastic supporters of Pite, McGregor, Wheeldon, Abraham and Tharp here- but it was repeating runs of works that had already been proven to be disliked instead of commissioning new work or mixing in a wanted and high quality Ashton or MacMillan work (eg Gloria, Solitaire, Requiem) that I was pointing out. To be fair, the opera company (under both Mears and Holten before him) also does it (reprising unpopular and poor selling works) so it's not unique to O'Hare (and Mason and Stretton too). I did give him a "done quite well" rating plus extra points on top of that for putting The Two Pigeons back on. 🙂 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Kate_N said: Nowadays, the role of AD of these kinds of companies is hugely complex, and underpaid for the skills and experience and talents required. Made me curious.....from the ROH filings at Companies House. 2019 for pre-COVID comparison. 2022 are last available. YE 29Aug 2019 YE 28Aug 2022 Salary 201,332 184,265 Pension 19,793 18,427 Nat'l Insurance 26,610 25,614 Total 247,735 228,306 and, per the website... The position of Director of The Royal Ballet is generously supported by Lady Ashcroft. Edited January 14 by oncnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 6 hours ago, jmhopton said: Also strongly agree about the RB being a great team and all the ballets being a great team effort. It's never all about the principals (amazing as they are) but everyone on stage. The role of character actor has been elevated to great heights by the RB and they add so much to every performance to the extent that I check to see who is dancing Drosselmeyer, M. GM etc when I book a performance. I know all companies have a roster of character actors but the RBs are especially fine and are an integral part of the Company. We tend to take them for granted but I'm sure it doesn't just happen;it must be part of the company's ethos and values and that's down to the AD. My perception is that the RB has always had some splendid character actors, so I am not sure the current AD can claim credit for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJW Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 4 hours ago, oncnp said: The position of Director of The Royal Ballet is generously supported by Lady Ashcroft. Deleted. Please ignore Edited January 14 by MJW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Sorry but am I being naive here…. Does the above salary refer to Mr. O Hare? Should we be discussing his salary here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 No idea who Lady Ashcroft is, should I? Now, if the position was being supported by another lady, who was once married to a past AD, then that might possibly have been construed as exerting undue influence (or whatever the correct term is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 It seems unlikely to me that the Director alone decides what is scheduled and how long runs are. I am sure there is a great deal of committee work, discussion and compromise: he must be hemmed in by many constraints, and especially given the bad financial situation generally these days. In fact he must face huge frustration at every turn. Perhaps it is impossible to say how good a job Mr O 'Hare is doing unless we know all the constraints in some detail. Even in the best of times it must be very demanding looking after a large company of dancers, each of whom is both passionately committed and vulnerable to all sorts of troubles- and then there's all the other staff as well. The company is certainly on very good form and we have not seen people leaving in high dudgeon at all on his watch. On the contrary, dancers speak warmly of his supportive approach, especially when they face problems like injury. He is also friendly and approachable to the public. So, given how difficult the role must be, I would say he appears to be doing a very good job. No, I don't agree with all the artistic decisions, but then, I am not sure how far they are just his decisions. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 16 minutes ago, Mary said: It seems unlikely to me that the Director alone decides what is scheduled and how long runs are. I am sure there is a great deal of committee work, discussion and compromise: he must be hemmed in by many constraints, and especially given the bad financial situation generally these days. In fact he must face huge frustration at every turn. Perhaps it is impossible to say how good a job Mr O 'Hare is doing unless we know all the constraints in some detail. Even in the best of times it must be very demanding looking after a large company of dancers, each of whom is both passionately committed and vulnerable to all sorts of troubles- and then there's all the other staff as well. The company is certainly on very good form and we have not seen people leaving in high dudgeon at all on his watch. On the contrary, dancers speak warmly of his supportive approach, especially when they face problems like injury. He is also friendly and approachable to the public. So, given how difficult the role must be, I would say he appears to be doing a very good job. No, I don't agree with all the artistic decisions, but then, I am not sure how far they are just his decisions. This is true. The ROH Board has a lot of bearing on what is shown onstage (and for how long) in that it is their responsibility to ensure a) bums on seats for ticket sales and income; b) that the criteria stipulated by ACE is adhered to in order to ensure continued grants from them. These two things alone mean that very different repertoire is required to satisfy each one. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 39 minutes ago, LinMM said: Sorry but am I being naive here…. Does the above salary refer to Mr. O Hare? Should we be discussing his salary here? It's in the public domain if the information is filed at Companies House. If you look at the Dance Data Project links one of them covers what ADs in America are paid... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 6 minutes ago, Sim said: This is true. The ROH Board has a lot of bearing on what is shown onstage in that it is their responsibility to ensure a) bums on seats for ticket sales and income; b) that the criteria stipulated by ACE is adhered to in order to ensure continued grants from them. These two things alone mean that very different repertoire is required to satisfy each one. Since the last ACE funding announcement I've wondered if the point will one day be reached where fulfilling the latter is no longer worth the lost revenue from the former. ROH - though the headline figure is large, partly because in effect it covers three institutions - is in percentage terms less dependent on ACE funding than most of its peers. Perhaps the board should consider the impact of cutting the umbilical cord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 20 minutes ago, Mary said: Even in the best of times it must be very demanding looking after a large company of dancers, each of whom is both passionately committed and vulnerable to all sorts of troubles- and then there's all the other staff as well. The company is certainly on very good form and we have not seen people leaving in high dudgeon at all on his watch. On the contrary, dancers speak warmly of his supportive approach, especially when they face problems like injury. He is also friendly and approachable to the public. Agree. This is also illustrated in his often excellent speeches when celebrating a dancer for this or that reason. I found particularly moving his speech for Bonelli farewell. Those moments (also the recent speech for Osipova 10 years at RB) were full of humanity and empathy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Thanks Jan guess I was being Naive then! Doesn’t look like a bad salary to me but of course only by comparison to other AD’s can it really be judged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeralds Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 5 hours ago, oncnp said: Made me curious.....from the ROH filings at Companies House. 2019 for pre-COVID comparison. 2022 are last available. YE 29Aug 2019 YE 28Aug 2022 Salary 201,332 184,265 Pension 19,793 18,427 Nat'l Insurance 26,610 25,614 Total 247,735 228,306 and, per the website... The position of Director of The Royal Ballet is generously supported by Lady Ashcroft. That's a much smaller salary than what the music director of opera at ROH gets and that post holder doesn't have to be responsible for singers' or musicians' careers (agents, managers and coaches/mentors do that....plus the occasional spouse or mother!), conduct every production, answer criticisms about productions, casting or repertoire choices. Hmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Emeralds said: That's a much smaller salary than what the music director of opera at ROH gets and that post holder doesn't have to be responsible for singers' or musicians' careers (agents, managers and coaches/mentors do that....plus the occasional spouse or mother!), conduct every production, answer criticisms about productions, casting or repertoire choices. Hmm.... For completeness..... Edited January 14 by oncnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeralds Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 22 minutes ago, oncnp said: For completeness..... Yes, I should have said take home pay as the fees, emoluments etc are not counted as part of the salary. Pappano is also allowed to moonlight (which I can't see O'Hare having the time to do) eg he is also chief conductor of the Orchestra dell' Accademia Nazionale Santa Cecilia, a professional orchestra in Italy, and he can conduct and tour with them and collect an additional salary plus royalties for recordings. Interesting comparison with the pay for the ROH CEO, RB Artistic Director and RO Artistic Director..... Edited January 14 by Emeralds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 52 minutes ago, oncnp said: For completeness..... What this suggests to me is that the ballet prices may in part rising to cover the burden of costs from opera, which are clearly a great deal higher. Edited January 14 by Blossom Clarity 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophoife Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I think it's actually somewhat misleading to include Pappano in this consideration. None of the other three people shown have the capacity in their roles to earn performance fees. It would be interesting to see a list of all those who conduct at the ROH, for ballet and opera, and how much each earns in performance fees from the ROH. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnstar Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 19 minutes ago, Sophoife said: I think it's actually somewhat misleading to include Pappano in this consideration. None of the other three people shown have the capacity in their roles to earn performance fees. I suppose O'Hare could always do some character roles to get some performance fees! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Perregrino Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 9 hours ago, Dawnstar said: I suppose O'Hare could always do some character roles to get some performance fees! Or choreograph a ballet perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeralds Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 11 hours ago, Sophoife said: I think it's actually somewhat misleading to include Pappano in this consideration. None of the other three people shown have the capacity in their roles to earn performance fees. It would be interesting to see a list of all those who conduct at the ROH, for ballet and opera, and how much each earns in performance fees from the ROH. Umm, Sophoife....that's not really the case for O'Hare and Mears per se. Alex Beard, ROH CEO, might not be a performer (Classics degree) but he is allowed to sit on boards (he is on the board of Glyndebourne- interesting considering that they are potentially rivals for the same market share, eg the year that both ROH & Glyndebourne decided to revive Alcina in the exact same year within several months of each other after neither had been interested in Alcina for years) accept engagements to be after dinner speaker or consultant, etc etc. Oliver Mears might not be a former singer or musician (degree in English and History) unlike previous directors like Elaine Padmore, but he has staged many productions for different companies (eg Opera North, Scottish Opera, Young Vic, Aldeburgh, Bergen National Opera, NI Opera etc) and does earn royalties still when his productions are performed: the current Rigoletto at ROH is his, for example. He is also still co-artistic director of an independent opera company, Second Movement. He's not obliged to be at ROH 6 days and evenings a week, 50 weeks of the year. So he too has an outside income. Anthony Dowell in his time as Artistic Director of RB continued to dance lead roles in the first 5 years of his leadership, eg Beliaev in A Month in the Country, Palemon in Ondine, create roles with a choreographer in the studio eg Kulygin in Winter Dreams, Emperor in The Prince of the Pagodas, both with MacMillan (so that's studio time as well as rehearsal time and stage time), perform character roles eg Carabosse, Drosselmeyer. He also staged productions eg Swan Lake (that lasted 3 decades and was performed a lot) and Sleeping Beauty, and designed costumes for RB productions eg Symphony in C, In the Night, so again, plenty of opportunity to earn performance fees and other fees should one choose to - even David McAllister at Australian Ballet has done performances of character roles. In the past when money and pay in the arts were not as widely discussed, I think people assumed that directors like Dowell and Monica Mason staged classics or did character role performances for free, to save the company money, but in fact they can and do collect performance fees and royalties like any other dancer or choreographer would. Kevin O'Hare can choose not to do any of these other activities, of course. The issue of music directors conducting and whether they should get extra money for each opera they conduct is a more thorny issue as the understanding is that the point of their job is to conduct the orchestra for performances- that's not a bonus extra like designing costumes, since they don't have to train the chorus (chorus director does that), rehearse the singers and actors (opera director or revival stager does that), do casting, commission productions, or manage careers. So to me the basic salary of £119K should cover conducting, otherwise it's a very generous salary for doing nothing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophoife Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) Okay, cool, thank you @Emeralds for the explanation. I'm clearly far too lazy and/or iggerant because it didn't even occur to me to look up Oliver Mears or Alex Beard! 🤭 I appreciate you taking the time to inform me BTW it took McAllister a very long time to begin doing character roles as AD and the only one I actually remember was Njegus in The Merry Widow! 🤗 Edited January 15 by Sophoife Add 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeralds Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Lol, @Sophoife....not sure if you mean it or are being sarcastic now..... 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 27 minutes ago, Emeralds said: Alex Beard, ROH CEO, might not be a performer (Classics degree) but he is allowed to sit on boards (he is on the board of Glyndebourne- interesting considering that they are potentially rivals for the same market share, eg the year that both ROH & Glyndebourne decided to revive Alcina in the exact same year within several months of each other after neither had been interested in Alcina for years) accept engagements to be after dinner speaker or consultant, etc etc. Alex Beard stepped down from the Glyndebourne board of trustees just after it was announced that he would be the new CEO of the ROH (July 2013). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophoife Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Emeralds said: Lol, @Sophoife....not sure if you mean it or are being sarcastic now..... 😉 No, I really mean it. A day without learning something is a wasted day. And it's after 11pm so I'm particularly grateful. Re-reading what I said, though, I can see where you might think I had taken the sarky approach. Seriously, I'm embarrassed I was so clumsy! PS cheer for young Rinky Hijikata please Edited January 15 by Sophoife Clarified 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeralds Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 11 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said: Alex Beard stepped down from the Glyndebourne board of trustees just after it was announced that he would be the new CEO of the ROH (July 2013). That's good to know, thank you- and makes more sense than the online biography implied! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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