How to help with audition rejection

[Kendie76]

Daughter has auditioned to 2 stage schools and been turned down for both so far 😢. I know that’s just the industry but honestly how do you pick your child up from the rejection and frustration. 

[Anna C]

Hi Kendie76,

 

Sorry to hear of your disappointment. 😔 It’s always hard to help our children through the feeling of rejection when they get a “no”, especially when they’re applying for 16+ training.  All I can say is that it’s not personal; often there are simply too many talented candidates for too few places - especially in the Arts, but also in elite sports, the top universities, and even in some careers.  In dance, particularly in ballet, of course, it’s not even down to pure talent, but also physical “facility” - some aspects of which are beyond our control.   I think reminding your dc of that, as well as reminding them of the genuinely tiny chance of “making it” in the performing arts, can help them take it less personally.  

 

Does your dc have a Plan B, e.g. applying for higher education as well? 

 

 

[glowlight]

So sorry to hear this.  It is hard, especially if this is the first experience of auditioning and/or first experience of rejection.

 

I think the main thing to remind her of is that rejections are quite normal, and it's OK to feel upset and cross.  But then encourage her to move on to the next audition or the next thing.

 

I started this thread a couple of years ago...it might help.

 

 

 

 

[Pointetoes]

I am very sorry hear this but unfortunately it’s all party of the industry, even after training there are still rejections.

 

She needs to remember that although it feels very personal it’s actually not. It’s simply that she isn’t right for them. Equally as hard I appreciate. 

 

Has she been at a vocational 6th form ? If not it maybe worth looking at some foundation courses as a back up plan. 

[jazzhands]

I have been pondering this myself. At the moment I am trying my best to stay positive, however I’m acutely aware that it’s not likely that DD is going to get into every school she has applied for. Although I am maintaining the positive message, we have had the ‘what if it doesn’t happen’ conversation. Takeaways from that are that she will try again, work part time next year, take more classes and work on her weaker areas. Now with that being said it won’t do us well to dwell on it, so she is going to give it her all and see what happens. Had someone told me even in September that it’s harder to get into Drama school than medicine I might have encouraged her down a different path. Not that she would have listened though and that’s the beauty of theatre kids they are tenacious and they need to be. I really hope your DD can brush off the disappointment and get back on the horse. 

[Kendie76]

You know I’m so glad I joined this forum!! Honestly daughter is super positive but open minded aswell. Her philosophy is ‘what will be will be’. LSC isn’t a definite no but the audition process is a little confusing. Thank you so much for all your advice. She still has a few other options bless her. So it’s probably more me worrying than her haha. Thanks again xx

[RosiesDream]

 

I'd resort to Kipling on this one..."Rewards and Fairies"...nice present, if you haven't already got it, though he's out of fashion on many things, the Master of the Soundbite got this one right

 

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;   

    If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;   

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster

    And treat those two impostors just the same;   ....................

 

 

[Drdee]

37 minutes ago, Kendie76 said:

You know I’m so glad I joined this forum!! Honestly daughter is super positive but open minded aswell. Her philosophy is ‘what will be will be’. LSC isn’t a definite no but the audition process is a little confusing. Thank you so much for all your advice. She still has a few other options bless her. So it’s probably more me worrying than her haha. Thanks again xx

@Kendie76 I will say it is much more competitive for girls (or should we say young ladies). I am not sure what your DD’s current training is and what her focus is and her age. My DD went to MT training at 18 (Urdang) and was training at a local stage school for 7 yrs and academic studies to A levels. What is her current training? I think a Foundation course is worth considering. How many more auditions? Which ones? Happy to talk via DM if helpful

[Kendie76]

6 minutes ago, Drdee said:

@Kendie76 I will say it is much more competitive for girls (or should we say young ladies). I am not sure what your DD’s current training is and what her focus is and her age. My DD went to MT training at 18 (Urdang) and was training at a local stage school for 7 yrs and academic studies to A levels. What is her current training? I think a Foundation course is worth considering. How many more auditions? Which ones? Happy to talk via DM if helpful

Aww thank you. My daughter is 17 but still young for her age if that makes sense. I would say her strengths are dancing but she does need more work in her MT. She auditioned for urdang but wasn’t successful and just waiting on LSC. She has Wilkes,performers,bird,trinity Laban and addict. She has been a dancer since she was 3 and she has RAD ballet exams also. 

[Drdee]

1 minute ago, Kendie76 said:

Aww thank you. My daughter is 17 but still young for her age if that makes sense. I would say her strengths are dancing but she does need more work in her MT. She auditioned for urdang but wasn’t successful and just waiting on LSC. She has Wilkes,performers,bird,trinity Laban and addict. She has been a dancer since she was 3 and she has RAD ballet exams also. 

I think she needs to keep being positive that she will offered a place or places. Onwards and upwards as they say. I know it’s tough. My daughter still hasn’t forgiven me for opening her offer from Laines. Fingers crossed.

[Kendie76]

24 minutes ago, Drdee said:

I think she needs to keep being positive that she will offered a place or places. Onwards and upwards as they say. I know it’s tough. My daughter still hasn’t forgiven me for opening her offer from Laines. Fingers crossed.

Thank you so much will keep you posted xx

[Pointetoes]

Sometimes I think we find the rejection harder then they do. 

 

DD has a couple of friends, male and female, who are much more dance based than MT who are at Wilkes and really enjoying themselves. 

 

Mine has never quiet forgiven me for replying to her now Course Director “ you can keep her for 3 years “ when he saw me in the cafe waiting for her and said to “we need to keep them a bit longer “ 

I honestly don’t know what came over me. All I will say is it was an odd day because he, the music director myself and DD spent about half of the welcome/ this is the course etc talking about a theatre we all knew really well and is known as the home of Actor Muso. She is doing Actor Muso 

[Anna C]

53 minutes ago, Kendie76 said:

Aww thank you. My daughter is 17 but still young for her age if that makes sense. I would say her strengths are dancing but she does need more work in her MT. She auditioned for urdang but wasn’t successful and just waiting on LSC. She has Wilkes,performers,bird,trinity Laban and addict. She has been a dancer since she was 3 and she has RAD ballet exams also. 

 

If she’s going for MT and/or “dance” courses, there’s not the urgency to go at 16 or 17 like there is for ballet - if she needs another year or two before auditioning for degree/diploma courses then, as others have said, a Foundation year or even A Levels while doing more singing/acting training might be a good alternative - especially as there are currently two years’ worth of MT graduates all going for a very few jobs.

[Kendie76]

39 minutes ago, Anna C said:

 

If she’s going for MT and/or “dance” courses, there’s not the urgency to go at 16 or 17 like there is for ballet - if she needs another year or two before auditioning for degree/diploma courses then, as others have said, a Foundation year or even A Levels while doing more singing/acting training might be a good alternative - especially as there are currently two years’ worth of MT graduates all going for a very few jobs.

She’s going for MT and dance courses really. She is at college at the minute on a performing arts course and then wants to go onto the degree. The foundation year may be an option though. Will keep you updated x

[Kendie76]

Thanks again everyone will keep you all updated and good luck to everyone 

[alison]

3 hours ago, RosiesDream said:

 

I'd resort to Kipling on this one..."Rewards and Fairies"...nice present, if you haven't already got it, though he's out of fashion on many things, the Master of the Soundbite got this one right

 

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;   

    If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;   

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster

    And treat those two impostors just the same;   ....................

 

 

 

Ah yes, the last two lines, famously, are written over the players' entrance to Centre Court at Wimbledon.

 

Have a look at this thread too:

 

[Pas de Quatre]

Realistically it is not a bad thing to have a few rejections along the way.  When Graduates are looking for employment they are rarely offered a contract immediately, they have to audition many times.  So the dancer who has overcome rejection previously is in a better position than the one who sailed through all Associate and Vocational school auditions always getting accepted.  To be  rejected for the first time at job auditions can be totally devastating!

[Medora]

Just going through this with my son who has spent the last weeks sitting various academic entrance exams, it is going to absolutely crush him if it's a no from all schools, but what can you do. 

 

As for ballet, we have certainly had our fair share of no's and near misses. It is so hard. But once that yes finally comes, it's all the more enjoyable .

 

No means not yet, as they say xx

[DancingtoDance]

I don't have experience with stage school auditions. I think that even if your daughter doesn't get accepted to any stage school, that does not mean that her previous stage or dance training is not valuable, as it may very well have taught her many useful skills such as perseverance as well as the technical and artistic aspects of the training. I think her hard work in dance and in the auditions should be acknowledged and commended despite the fact that she has not gotten accepted to them. I think it would be wise of your daughter to consider plans other than musical theatre, just because a musical theatre career may not be available to everyone, and because even if one starts a musical theatre career things could happen that mean a pause from or the end of their musical theatre career. However, this is not to say that your daughter getting rejected from two stage schools means she will not get into any stage schools or have a musical theatre career. After all, they are only two schools.

 

Are there other stage schools your daughter could audition for?

 

Even though your daughter got rejected from the two stage schools she auditioned for so far, I think it is good that she auditioned for them, because that gives her audition experience, and because at least your daughter did what she can to try to get in them. She could audition again for them if possible.

 

Perhaps your daughter could seek advice from her local dance or stage teachers, regarding what next steps she could take and regarding what they think she does well and what she could improve on. Perhaps there are local dance training schemes that could supplement her current training (this might not be necessary for your daughter though; perhaps your daughter's current stage or dance training is sufficient for her goals, and I think it is important to take some rest and refrain from over-training).

 

I think some careers do not necessarily require formal training in that career. For example, according to https://www.backstage.com/magazine/article/become-actor-5125/#:~:text=No%2C there are no education,of training along the way., it is possible to become an actor without going to acting school. I don't know what kind of training is required for musical theatre.

 

I wish you and your daughter the very best.

[balletbean]

On 16/01/2022 at 22:48, DancingtoDance said:

I don't have experience with stage school auditions. I think that even if your daughter doesn't get accepted to any stage school, that does not mean that her previous stage or dance training is not valuable, as it may very well have taught her many useful skills such as perseverance as well as the technical and artistic aspects of the training. I think her hard work in dance and in the auditions should be acknowledged and commended despite the fact that she has not gotten accepted to them. I think it would be wise of your daughter to consider plans other than musical theatre, just because a musical theatre career may not be available to everyone, and because even if one starts a musical theatre career things could happen that mean a pause from or the end of their musical theatre career. However, this is not to say that your daughter getting rejected from two stage schools means she will not get into any stage schools or have a musical theatre career. After all, they are only two schools.

 

Are there other stage schools your daughter could audition for?

 

Even though your daughter got rejected from the two stage schools she auditioned for so far, I think it is good that she auditioned for them, because that gives her audition experience, and because at least your daughter did what she can to try to get in them. She could audition again for them if possible.

 

Perhaps your daughter could seek advice from her local dance or stage teachers, regarding what next steps she could take and regarding what they think she does well and what she could improve on. Perhaps there are local dance training schemes that could supplement her current training (this might not be necessary for your daughter though; perhaps your daughter's current stage or dance training is sufficient for her goals, and I think it is important to take some rest and refrain from over-training).

 

I think some careers do not necessarily require formal training in that career. For example, according to https://www.backstage.com/magazine/article/become-actor-5125/#:~:text=No%2C there are no education,of training along the way., it is possible to become an actor without going to acting school. I don't know what kind of training is required for musical theatre.

 

I wish you and your daughter the very best.

Very wise words. Receiving a No after an audition could be that institution wasn't quite the right fit. No two colleges are the same just like no two academic schools are the same. Despite all teaching the same subjects. 
There’s always the option to attend a Uni rather than an independent college and study one of many of the dance degrees courses on offer. I know of a few that have attended Preston Uni & Royal Holloway. There’s also the option to seek training in Europe. There’s some very good colleges in Holland with fees considerably less than the UK. 
After graduating from uni there’s absolutely no barriers stopping a graduate from applying for professional casting or attending open auditions. Both nationally and internationally.
A few years back I know of one young lady who found her MT college wasn’t a good fit for her shortly after starting. Attended an open audition (when she was supposed to be in class,oops), where she was offered a contract, left the college, never looked back and stayed with the same company for 7 years.  
 

 

I always say, Don't let someone else’s decision control the final outcome of your dreams and aspirations. If you want it go and get it.  There are plenty of options out there, it’s just a case of finding the right one for you. 

[junedancer]

We must all have experienced not getting the dream job after school/college/university or the promotion we thought we deserved.  We are possibly better placed to support our DC then we think.  I have been surprised at how well DC copes when I am deep down still feeling their pain.  You just need to keep a watch for a few weeks after as sometimes they take it well at the time to be strong as part of their coping mechanism but need the support later.  This doesn't have to be much more than a night in with a pizza and a movie or a day our shopping and a good chat.  They come to it in their own time so just keep an eye on their moods (not easy when you are dealing with teenagers) so stay vigilant and you can hopefully get them through.

[FlexyNexy]

I think for MT or Actor is more important to have good agent rather what school you went to. 
Client of mine at work has a son who graduated in Manchester UNI with English and Drama degree and now is A listed actor in USofA. Many would recognise him. When I spoke to his dad, he insisted that he has a solid degree before he goes to his acting. In their culture they insist to have academic degree of some sort before they follow any passions and talents. After degree from Manchester UNI he has tried to join RAF as a pilot, but then decided to pursue his passion and went to Bristol Old Vic Theatre School as an adult. What i hear when speaking with his dad, is who you know and having a good agent is important. No one asks for his degree.

[Jewel]

1 hour ago, FlexyNexy said:

I think for MT or Actor is more important to have good agent rather what school you went to. 
Client of mine at work has a son who graduated in Manchester UNI with English and Drama degree and now is A listed actor in USofA. Many would recognise him. When I spoke to his dad, he insisted that he has a solid degree before he goes to his acting. In their culture they insist to have academic degree of some sort before they follow any passions and talents. After degree from Manchester UNI he has tried to join RAF as a pilot, but then decided to pursue his passion and went to Bristol Old Vic Theatre School as an adult. What i hear when speaking with his dad, is who you know and having a good agent is important. No one asks for his degree.

 

That is great, but that route (drama school as an adult/postgrad) is only available to those with the money to finance that extra year.  For most the undergraduate programme they follow is their one chance at getting the training/agent.

[Harwel]

3 hours ago, FlexyNexy said:

I think for MT or Actor is more important to have good agent rather what school you went to. 
Client of mine at work has a son who graduated in Manchester UNI with English and Drama degree and now is A listed actor in USofA. Many would recognise him. When I spoke to his dad, he insisted that he has a solid degree before he goes to his acting. In their culture they insist to have academic degree of some sort before they follow any passions and talents. After degree from Manchester UNI he has tried to join RAF as a pilot, but then decided to pursue his passion and went to Bristol Old Vic Theatre School as an adult. What i hear when speaking with his dad, is who you know and having a good agent is important. No one asks for his degree.

I’m not sure if I’ve misunderstood, but if your friends son trained at Bristol old Vic then it really wouldn’t matter about his degree from Manchester as he’s got acting training from one of the best drama schools in the country, that training will open doors to the best agents. He’s clearly very talented, his face fits and he has exemplary training - a case of destiny calls.  What’s for you won’t pass you by. 

[FlexyNexy]

48 minutes ago, Harwel said:

I’m not sure if I’ve misunderstood, but if your friends son trained at Bristol old Vic then it really wouldn’t matter about his degree from Manchester as he’s got acting training from one of the best drama schools in the country, that training will open doors to the best agents. He’s clearly very talented, his face fits and he has exemplary training - a case of destiny calls.  What’s for you won’t pass you by. 

what I wanted to say is that agents are more important than degrees and ultimately - who you know (at least in ballet). And that drama courses you can do even after you pursue academic route at any stage of your life. If it is your passion and it mean to be - it will be. I see a lot of young budding actors, giving up just because they did not get into their choice of drama schools at early age. So many actors are picked up by agents at workshops or just by that one opportunity being seen and get picked up on Spotlight platform. It's like with ballet...vocational school does not guarantee job in the company. RB has at least 2 dancers that have been casted just because of outreach programs.
And it is true, sometimes you have to have the right face, voice....my neighbour taught at The Poor School before they closed and they had many adult students that had day jobs to support it, some getting the success they wanted at later mature lives.

No just means - not right now. 
 

Edited January 19, 2022 by FlexyNexy
spelling error

[Whiteduvet]

It’s kind to say no means not now, but sometimes it does just mean no. That’s not a nice thing to face but it’s the reality. Not everyone is meant to have a stage career. And that’s just fine  

[Whiteduvet]

As in: there are many other wonderful career routes open to young people. I don’t mean to minimise the hurt and sadness but I think it’s better to know the truth and make choices accordingly. 

[Pups_mum]

I think you are right @Whiteduvet

It is a fine line to tread, and nobody wants to crush a young person's dream, but sometimes no really does mean no. Not that I am advocating giving up at the first no, because learning resilience is very important, and for some there will be great success after initial rejections. But for a lot of dancers there does come a point when reality requires a change of direction. I am loathe to use the words "give up" as that is so negative and implies that the journey so far has been worthless, which it seldom is. But very often, these dedicated and talented young people do have to come to terms with the fact that repeatedly banging on closed doors is not good for them and that they need to find other outlets for their talents and passions.

People often say very well meant things that actually can be damaging. One is the idea that you will succeed if you want it enough/ work hard enough. Obviously that is not exclusive to the ballet world - I have heard it said to many, many young people in different circumstances. Unfortunately it isn't true of course, and whilst motivation and hard work are crucial to success, on their own, they cannot guarantee it. We simply can't all  be whatever we want to be. And when that eventually hits home, it can leave the young person believing it is their fault, for not working hard enough or being sufficiently dedicated, when of course that is rarely the case.

The other thing that we experienced was people telling my DD not to worry as her (in ballet terms) sub optimal body proportions may well change as she grew up, despite a quick glance at everyone else in the family for several generations suggesting that was pretty unlikely. Or tales of great dancers who made it big despite physical imperfections. All true, but of course the stories are well known because they are so unusual, and the individuals involved had exceptional talents. 

Not that I think anyone ever intended their comments to be anything other than kind and encouraging, and of course it's natural to want to believe them, but I think a bit more pragmatism would help a lot of young dancers. And to be fair, had my DD faced reality earlier, she might not have discovered her talent and passion for teaching. But I do wish some people had been more up front with us.  Maybe the answer is that somehow we need to encourage our young people to see alternatives to a performing career as equals, earlier on in their lives, rather than the second rate options to be taken if things don't work out, as they are often perceived. I'm not sure how to do that though!

[Peanut68]

Very very well expressed Pups Mum! 

[NotadanceMa]

I always remember my child telling me what their JA teacher said to their class; she said in this world someone is always watching and it’s as much (maybe a bit more) about being in the right place at the right time as it is about being the best most talented student in the class, or vying with your peers for a place in an audition.
 

My child has just started Y9 vocational training, on paper they have SEN and need significant support adjustments to learn and our journey on this ballet path has clearly demonstrated who doesn’t want them and who does, and leaves me to read between the lines when feedback is not forthcoming. I am not precious about this and neither are they, I make sure they know this is the process.  

what my child has always had is that thing you can’t teach, if they can get in the room is a quality of movement that takes your breath away, but this isn’t enough, nowhere near enough. They also have talent and potential, again not enough. They applied initially to the most obvious vocational school for Y7 after being told to by their associate  teacher. It was a flat no. The feedback from the audition was that they were ‘exceptional,’ given to me by his associate teacher as she scratched her head. Knowing when a no means no is crucial, it doesn’t mean stop, but it can mean stop trying at a certain place. So we did, but I never told my child the feedback they had been given. Their ballet journey when panels read what’s on the application form puts many people off. The successes have come from them being seen through windows, or prelims or workshops and associate classes, and of course getting into an audition.

 

My child has had offers from everywhere, but in random roundabout ways. They eventually took the one they never even thought of at the beginning of this journey, the one we didn’t have to apply to because someone was watching them, liked what they saw and offered a place. 
 

What I’m trying to say is that being honest and open about how brutal this industry is is key. Being turned down, rejected, ignored and overlooked is part of the process all the way along and getting what you want in the end is very difficult indeed. I was brutal with my child from the minute they stepped out of the safety of their local ballet school. I make no apologies for this. Do I think my child will be a professional dancer? I think it is highly unlikely and so do they.

 

what you maybe must help your daughter decide is when enough is enough, at what point do they want to stop. What else do they have in place to pursue whilst they are navigating rejections.

Start having lots of conversations about what not succeeding looks like and what to do next, when they really don’t want to do this anymore.

 

Reframe ‘giving up’ as finding an alternative path that transfers your daughters skills.

 

If she chooses to keep trying then be honest and say this is going to hurt and make you feel wretched and sad and like you have failed, because sometimes that’s what rejection feels like. This is validating her experience of the ‘no’ and then moving to the next thing. 

Managing expectations and knowing when to stop are key, and so is helping her understand that she can bear the difficult hurtful feelings that come with rejection, this too is part of the journey that she has chosen. 

 

[glowlight]

I think for some young dancers having a Plan B is very difficult.  When you think about it, most teenagers don't even have a 'Plan A' - so asking your teenager to think in detail of what they will do if they don't succeed can at times be impossible.

 

What you can encourage however is making sure that they have a strong foundation in their general eduction, so that if / when they do start to think about what comes next they aren't coming at it from a standing start. 

 

This also helps to keep their options open.  My dd would never have imagined a career in IT when she was so fixed on being a dancer, but that it where she has ended up. 

[Pas de Quatre]

Even if they do succeed in becoming a professional dancer, the average performing life is only a very few years, (something like

 about 4-5 years) so a later plan B is needed too.

[Anna C]

15 hours ago, glowlight said:

What you can encourage however is making sure that they have a strong foundation in their general eduction, so that if / when they do start to think about what comes next they aren't coming at it from a standing start. 

 

Exactly this.  A good set of GCSEs - including science/s, a humanities subject, and a language if possible - is vital for dance students, especially those going into full-time training for the first time, so are not 100% sure how their body will respond.  This will keep their options open to do A Levels of their choice (or equivalent) if offered at upper school or at a later date, and then onto higher education at some stage - something quite a few dancers do, regardless of whether or not they have a career onstage. 

 

That can be enough of a Plan B for some, others may have a clearer idea of what they’d like to do if performing isn’t an option (teaching, personal training, and so on) so if that’s the case, there are upper schools/colleges that offer teaching qualifications  in dance or Pilates.  A “Plan B” doesn’t have to be set in stone at 16, but I do believe we should encourage our dancing teenagers to think about what theirs might look like, just in case they need it sooner rather than later.  If they have the facilitating GCSEs as a starting point, their options are much less limited.