Dietician recommendations for young dancer

[Wimdancer]

Wondered if anyone might be able to recommend a good dietician?  My DD is 13 and her body very mature for her age.  She is not an ectomorph but has a more athletic body shape.  We could do with some advice on how best to support her dancing with the right diet for her body shape.  We're based in SW London.  Any suggestions would be most appreciated!  Thanks so much!  

[Anna C]

I can’t help with a dietician, Wimdancer, but there is a very good book by Zerlina Mastin called “Nutrition for the Dancer” which I can recommend.  What is it you’re trying to achieve?  The right “fuel” to ensure your dd is eating enough for the amount of exercise she’s doing?  

[Sparkly]

My DD is also 13 and has developed quite suddenly. I do worry about her diet as she eats a lot of sweets that her friends at school seem to have an endless supply of (she doesn’t have the money on her to buy them herself). She’s very athletic but I can see she will need guidance on making healthy choices.

Its a difficult conversation to have as it’s a very sensitive subject but very relevant nonetheless.

 

[Anon2]

There is an article on BBC news today about diet and sport. The sports dietician mentioned, Renee McGregor, evidently works with ENB among others. 

 

[Pixiewoo]

Same here!

 

DD talks about eating healthily, and not eating much fat, and we do eat healthy meals, and she is given healthy snacks etc. However, she does likes sweets and biscuits! ALOT!  and all the dancers seem to disappear into the local shop when they have break in classes! 

 

She will sometimes say she is fat - she is not, but she is quite muscly and very strong. It is a very tricky conversation to have, as if i comment on what she is saying about eating healthily etc, then she instantly says ' you think i'm fat ' which is not true. It is very hard to get the balance right. 

[Ruby Foo]

Misty Copeland’s book ‘Ballerina Body’ has much on diet/ menus for dancers accompanied by stunning photos of her very athletic physique. Truly inspirational.

As long as you’ve stressed  and listed the foods that are most beneficial in terms of nutrition ( muscle/ tendon/ bone/ general vitamins) and providing energy, while educating them in the foods that are of little or no use, then you’ve done a good job!

[Kate_N]

My personal trainer told me at our first session: "You can't out-train a bad diet" Maybe that would be a motivation for young teens, ambitious to succeed at dance, to think about food as fuel to complement their training?

 

A sweet tooth is a horrible habit to have (oh dear, I know it all too well)  ....

[Wimdancer]

Thanks all, really appreciated - will definitely look into the suggested books and Renee McGregor.  I think like Sparkly and Pixiewoo's its a case of getting the balance right and ensuring DD understands importance of healthy eating as a dancer.  DD is not fat and I don't want her to feel she is, but she does love her chocolate...  It is a difficult conversation, particularly when she sees other kids eat lots of sweets.  Hopefully her reading from the recommended books will her understand importance of being careful with what she eats.

[Colman]

Is there a gentle way for me to ask what problem you’re trying to solve here? Is she eating sweets excessively by some objective measure?

 

These conversations are difficult, especially because so many of us have more-or-less disordered relationships with food.

 

I’m all in favour of educating the kids about nutrition - to the extent that anyone has a good handle on it - and advice from a nutritionist might be useful, though I can’t imagine how I’d introduce my son to that without giving the impression there was something wrong with him. 

[LinMM]

I think early teens is difficult! Somehow I remember about the age of 13 from being a very fussy eater indeed  I turned into having a voracious appetite ....but did all my development from very late 13 to early 15. 

Of course went from really skinny ( and I mean skinny) pre teen to a rather filled out middle teen!! However as I was still dancing I suddenly started eating a bit less ( well not eating less exactly ....but just skipping meals....usually lunch at school....) so I was self monitoring no matter what peers were doing generally.....though we were all mostly monitoring our weight it being the age of Twiggy et al!

I'm not recommending skipping meals but it is what can happen with young people .....personally I was usually starving by the evening so didn't miss out much!! It's only a problem if skipping all meals.

My weight soon stabilised around age of 18 at more or less the same for the next 25 years!! 

I think today's kids generally seem to know more about actual nutrition than we did though got the basics pretty much from my mother. 

The book Anna C recommended is very good and I can definitely recommend that one too but as long as your daughter gets a generally varied diet I wouldn't worry about a bit of over indulgence in chocolate at her age!! 

It is in fact amazing just how little the human body does need to function really well .....1500 to 2000 calories a day is absolutely enough ( 2500 max) for most females .....most of us over eat by culture I would say. But dancers can eat quite well without worrying too much if in full training as they do burn it off in the course of a day and young developing teens can get away with a bit too!! 

 

 

[ArucariaBallerina]

If your dd loves chocolate, would she consider trying slightly darker? A little bit of dark choc is good for you (a nutritionist told me!) and it's much more filling than milk choc, but very delicious! I love a square of 90% Lindt dark choc from time to time, but would start with 70%!

 

I would say just make sure you are cooking healthy meals (which I'm sure you are!) and she will figure out the rest (though I can highly recommend the 'Nutrition for the Dancer' book! My mum also says she makes healthy food a treat - E.g, have smoothies made with her favourite fruit in the garden in this gorgeous weather, make salads with fresh veg, healthy pizzas etc xx

 

 

[Wimdancer]

Dark chocolate a good idea.  She doesn't eat excessively and does 16 hours of ballet/ pilates a week so her weight is perfectly fine for a normal girl her age, but she is very slightly on the heavy side for a dancer - just want to make sure she understands importance of being more careful with her chocolate/ice-cream as a result, without thinking she's fat, as she's not.  Thanks all for your advice, really very helpful.  I'm sure the books will do the trick!

[Anna C]

Just a suggestion, Wimdancer, but from an aesthetic point of view, is this something that *needs* tackling at 13?  Does she have any auditions for full time training coming up?  Is she putting on weight steadily or is her weight stable at the moment?

 

Unless she is eating excessive amounts of sweets, chocolate, ice cream and so on - in which case you might want to frame the conversation as a health topic (effects of sugar, short term fuel as a sugar rush followed by a slump etc) - there’s a high chance at 13 that she’ll have a big growth spurt and lose what might be “puppy fat”.   

 

My 20 yr old daughter still loves sweets and has a very sweet tooth but despite that has always struggled to keep weight *on*.

Even so, there have been lots of moments over the years where she compared herself unfavourably with the other girls in her classes and saw herself (wrongly) as too heavy.  This led to a lot of anxiety.  During her teens we knew girls with eating disorders and body dysmorphia which is not surprising when in leotard and tights every day, staring into a mirror.  

 

I would of course have the conversation about “Everything in moderation”, the importance of a balance between all the food groups (including fat which is very important to long term health), seeing food as fuel and explaining sustained energy release.  We changed from white to wholegrain bread, wholemeal pasta, porridge for breakfast on dancing days etc.  

What I *didn’t* do was frame any particular food as “bad” or unhealthy.  I mean, lettuce is not nutritious if that’s all you eat!  A couple of squares of chocolate is perfect but eating a giant bar in one go is probably going to make you feel a bit nauseous.  If you put someone on a “diet” and make certain foods seem bad then it’s human nature to want that forbidden food.

 

At 13 I would urge you to be very careful about how you frame this, bearing in mind your dd might lose weight as she grows.  What you might want to be careful of - no offence - is using phrases like “heavy” or “on the heavy side” for a dancer.  It’s SO easy to inadvertently sow a seed in a teenager’s mind which in the dance world can quickly turn into an obsession.  🙁

 

Read through the books together by all means; I bought the Zerlina Mastin one myself to see if I could be making meals that would give dd more sustained fuel, but a very cautious approach is advisable with a young teenager, especially a dancing one.  

 

Best of luck. ☺️

[2dancersmum]

The book Anna mentions was on the reading list for my DD for a project on healthy eating as part of her diploma so it is a good place to start.

 

To be honest though, as long as her overall diet is healthy I don't think a bit of chocolate or some sweets are too much to worry about.  You do need to maintain a healthy relationship to food for the long term. Its important to remember too that at 13 bodies are still changing and growing and a teenager doing quite a lot of exercise each week will burn off any excesses. I'm sorry but you can expect a 13 year old to change considerably until they settle into their adult body at 18/19/20 and I think you have to be very careful with images projected of what a dancer should look like/weigh etc. Teenagers have a tough time and dancers are constantly seeing themselves and others in leotards and mirrors and know better than anyone how they fit with the other dancers in class. 

 

A healthy and balanced diet overall is what parents need to aim for for their children and themselves. My DDs are older - one has been dancing professionally for almost 4 years now. Sadly I have seen the effects on some of their peers during their teenage years where either the girls or their mothers focused too much on body image.

[Ruby Foo]

I think it’s usual for young teens to eat loads of candy, chocolate etc in the same way as it’s compulsory for all teens to sleep till midday, if they could! As long as they are taking in the food necessary for a sports training then it’s probably not worth getting too worried about. After all, cutting out all junk will not change an athletic bone structure into a willowy bone structure and there are plenty of both types in professional ballet and dance.

[Anon2]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47965467 

 

The article above is the one I referred to that mentions dietician and her findings regarding restricted diets. Frightening reading. 

 

I don’t think there will be a parent on here that has had a child at vocational level not witness the damage body image and restricted dieting has had on more than one young dancer. 

 

[FullContretemps]

Anna, you have said everything I wanted to say but couldn't frame as eloquently!

 

Only commenting to add weight to the excellent points made by Anna and others.

 

Also to add, health is a very important thing to focus on, and it is exactly that: health not weight or body size/shape. If it really came to it (not because it is likely or to scare you, but just to frame perspective) would you rather a physically and mentally healthy daughter who may not have the "100% perfect" (definition of which will differ with every single person you ask) or one who is the "right" size and shape but compromised in a greater or lesser way by achieving that body?

 

Glad she has got a caring and interested parent to guide her and that you are seeking healthy nutrition - sorry I can't help dietician-wise but as Anna says, everything in moderation, wholegrains, nourishing foods that provide the energy and nutrients to keep a body working to its full potential. Educate yourself and her on health (not weight or weight loss or body shape), as you are seeking to do, just don't get stuck on it. Nothing wrong with treats as long as they are not compromising functioning, at which point she may well notice that herself and adjust!

 

As I'm sure you are aware, undue focus on diet can be a lot more damaging than any imperfection in said diet. Care for body, care for mind and care for self. Good nutrition is part of that and so is treating ourselves with kindness and generosity: both together keeps room for freedom and joy which can be found in dancing!

[Wimdancer]

Thanks so much everyone for all the great advice, very helpful.  Definitely don’t want her having issues with food etc.  It’s a relief to hear that it’s nothing to worry about! 

[sarahw]

It's a very difficult area, great advice here. Instagram doesn't help of course, they're under so much pressure....

[Pas de Quatre]

Really I don't think sweets in moderation are a problem as it is obvious what they are. I get more concerned about prepared savoury foods which have a lot of sugar added when you don't expect it. Also supposedly 'healthy' foods such as cereals, including muesli, and fruit flavoured yoghurts all have very high sugar content. It can be very revealing to read the ingredients which are listed all the labels - highest content is first.

[Kate_N]

2 hours ago, Pas de Quatre said:

Also supposedly 'healthy' foods such as cereals, including muesli, and fruit flavoured yoghurts all have very high sugar content

 

I suppose this is what I was thinking about when I commented on the "bad habit" of having a sweet tooth. With processed foods, a lot of sugar (and salt) are "hidden" and we get used to the taste, without realising what an artificially high level of sugar we're getting. It is habit forming - that's precisely why food companies add these ingredients!

 

I make my own muesli - I love raw oats (but detest porridge) and I add sultanas and chopped apricots. I generally have eggs & spinach for breakfast (got to get the protein in where I can)  but I do find myself sometimes hankering for that immediate hit of intense sweetness from my muesli! Supposedly healthy, but more calories in a bowl of home-made muesli than my usual two eggs, spinach & tomatoes omelette - although oats etc have loads of other nutritional advantages, I know.

 

Not that I recommend you get your DD to do this, but it is interesting to use a calorie-counting app (I have the FitBit one on my phone, connected to my FitBit) just to track what one eats normally. I've found this  a way to re-educate myself (in late middle-age) about making sensible choices about what I eat. It is scary to see the calorie count of "just a bit of a treat because I had a horrible meeting" comfort-eating, when it's there in black & white on your phone.

 

Maybe you could do it for your DD just to see what she's eating calorifically (without making a point of telling her you're doing it), which might help then with the more general conversation about good eating habits. As @Pas de Quatre says, t is very instructive to pay attention to ingredients & calorie values on packaged & processed foods. I found that a few months of fairly obsessive tracking of my food has educated me really well, and now I have a conversation with myself about going for the snacks & treats. It's a choice, and it helps to see some of the enormous calorific counts of stuff that gives you an immediate comfort hit, but leaves you feeling rotten an hour later ...

Edited April 25, 2019 by Kate_N

[glissade]

I can recommend the book, 'Good Mood Food' by Charlotte Watts - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1848993609/

It doesn't count calories and looks at the effect of nutrition (especially, maintaining consistent blood sugar levels) on mood, sleep, brain function etc. I would also strongly caution any parent not to enourage their child to start tracking calories, unless on the specific advice of a doctor. Believe me, if your child develops an eating disorder, those hidden calories will be their (and your) friend, not their enemy.

[alison]

3 hours ago, Pas de Quatre said:

I get more concerned about prepared savoury foods which have a lot of sugar added when you don't expect it. Also supposedly 'healthy' foods such as cereals, including muesli, and fruit flavoured yoghurts all have very high sugar content.

 

Not to mention the "low-fat" and "zero-fat" products which have more added sweet things (and gelling agents and nasty things like that) to replace the flavour which removing the fat has taken out  

[Kate_N]

1 hour ago, glissade said:

I would also strongly caution any parent not to enourage their child to start tracking calories, unless on the specific advice of a doctor. Believe me, if your child develops an eating disorder, those hidden calories will be their (and your) friend, not their enemy.

 

Can I just emphasise - in case it wasn't clear from my post above - that I was not suggesting that @Wimdancer's DD start tracking calories or be encouraged to do so! Gosh no.  But that Wimdancer herself might keep a quiet eye on the "hidden" non-nutritional aspects of her DD's food so that if changes need to be made - a big if - she has some knowledge of how this could be done safely.

 

I suppose I just think we're all fairly under-educated about the hidden calories on processed food - particularly sugar variants such as corn syrup, fructose etc. My point was that @Wimdancer could continue to educate herself about this in case she needs to advise her DD in the future - I'm sure she knows the right things to do.

 

But isn't the time from 13 to 16  a prime time for a growth spurt? And it's also around menarche for girls who need to have a certain percentage of body fat to menstruate, so girl's/women's bodies will try to put on body fat in order for this to happen, almost against our conscious will! It's very hard for a girl/woman to maintain the low percentages of body fat which boys/men are able to maintain, and really difficult in your teens. 

[alison]

Really?  I never knew that last bit before!  Oh well, live and learn - although it's a bit late in my case  

[Pas de Quatre]

Yes, that is why one of the first signs of being very underweight or Anorexia is that periods stop, that is provided they have started.  Female body fat actually transports the essential hormones.

 

With out these essential hormones and menstruation bone density is compromised which can lead to osteoporosis in later life.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Pas de Quatre

[Colman]

Which is why the recommended minimum fat levels for women are far higher than men. None of these things are fixed in stone either - some individuals will be able to cheerfully have a couple of children at low fat levels that would render most women infertile and unhealthy. Trying to emulate them is a really bad idea for most people.

[glissade]

47 minutes ago, Kate_N said:

 

Can I just emphasise - in case it wasn't clear from my post above - that I was not suggesting that @Wimdancer's DD start tracking calories or be encouraged to do so! Gosh no.  But that Wimdancer herself might keep a quiet eye on the "hidden" non-nutritional aspects of her DD's food so that if changes need to be made - a big if - she has some knowledge of how this could be done safely.

 

I understood your point, Kate_N - I was just hoping to emphasise the "without your DD knowing" part of your suggestion to track calories. And also to suggest an alternative tracking of glycaemic index (rather than focusing on calories) in relation to blood sugar levels, which is described brilliantly in the book I referenced. 

[Peanut68]

3 hours ago, Kate_N said:

 

I suppose this is what I was thinking about when I commented on the "bad habit" of having a sweet tooth. With processed foods, a lot of sugar (and salt) are "hidden" and we get used to the taste, without realising what an artificially high level of sugar we're getting. It is habit forming - that's precisely why food companies add these ingredients!

 

I make my own muesli - I love raw oats (but detest porridge) and I add sultanas and chopped apricots. I generally have eggs & spinach for breakfast (got to get the protein in where I can)  but I do find myself sometimes hankering for that immediate hit of intense sweetness from my muesli! Supposedly healthy, but more calories in a bowl of home-made muesli than my usual two eggs, spinach & tomatoes omelette - although oats etc have loads of other nutritional advantages, I know.

 

Not that I recommend you get your DD to do this, but it is interesting to use a calorie-counting app (I have the FitBit one on my phone, connected to my FitBit) just to track what one eats normally. I've found this  a way to re-educate myself (in late middle-age) about making sensible choices about what I eat. It is scary to see the calorie count of "just a bit of a treat because I had a horrible meeting" comfort-eating, when it's there in black & white on your phone.

 

Maybe you could do it for your DD just to see what she's eating calorifically (without making a point of telling her you're doing it), which might help then with the more general conversation about good eating habits. As @Pas de Quatre says, t is very instructive to pay attention to ingredients & calorie values on packaged & processed foods. I found that a few months of fairly obsessive tracking of my food has educated me really well, and now I have a conversation with myself about going for the snacks & treats. It's a choice, and it helps to see some of the enormous calorific counts of stuff that gives you an immediate comfort hit, but leaves you feeling rotten an hour later ...

Ah, I know this is what in my 50’s now I need to do....no cash/tech mind fir a Fitbit (unless someone can seriously convince me here!) but I feel like so many of us would benefit from just knowing what we are eating & what it contains so that we educate ourselves & self prompt with little thoughts of ‘is this what I need right now?’

I sailed through childhood & terms eating everything I liked (though I know benefitted hugely from super dad who grew all our own veg & was - and at 91 still is!! - fantastic home cook! My downfall was having to put on weight (Dr’s advice - it worked!) to get pregnant. And then discovering the joy of cake when breast feeding!! This then continued with almost daily treats if cake after baby/toddler groups, then coffee & cake whilst kids at ballet etc!!!! Oh what a slippery but delicious slope that was....now I seem to not be able to get bs I to the ‘real me’ I know is in there as I use treat food too much as comfort or reward....without measuring the consequences in advance! 

Anyway, this perhaps more fir a thread for us adult dancers....

Just want to add from a parent perspective, great to be interested/concerned/involved but be careful that in so doing you do not become a ‘problem to be overcome’ or outwitted....

Eating disorders can do easily creep up on youngsters & can almost become a weapon on control. In my past dancing life experience I have seen (& see in DC’s peers) that the youngsters with ‘issues’ can more likely tend to be those where there is much parental control over what theye eat. For instance, if on very controlled diet & restricted ‘treats’ st home, a child entering a boarding environment may for the first time be facing the opportunity to make their own choices.... & this will include spending pocket money  on food at weekends. If highly restricted at home, as someone earlier said this may make certain ‘banned’ foods seem ever more desirable.... especially when st that age of breaking rules is a right if passage! 

If the original posters DD is at vocational school then perhaps you could seek (discreetly) some feedback from them on typical daily menu offered & food habits of your daughter/peers to get an informed insight. I am rather horrified (& now avoid taking to many) by the well meaning parents who say they cannot believe how fat their DC has got at vocational school & how they put them on crash diets every time they are home.... well, hello???? There is their perceived problem right there..... themselves!!! 

I am by no means any expert & wish all dancers of all ages, shapes & sizes healthy & happy lives & enjoy dancing as part of that!!

[sarahw]

It's much harder to control/modify what kids are eating when away at school. There just aren't enough staff to supervise that type of thing adequately...

[Kate_N]

29 minutes ago, glissade said:

And also to suggest an alternative tracking of glycaemic index (rather than focusing on calories) in relation to blood sugar levels, which is described brilliantly in the book I referenced. 

 

Thanks for that - I don't know much about the GI technicalities, so will look for the book you recommend as it sounds very useful.

 

I know, as a middle-aged comfort eater with a sweet tooth, I have personally found that switching to more protein in my diet really helps fend off the hunger feeling (which is possibly a sugar craving!). I have come to adore Greek yoghurt which is tasty, leaves me feeling satiated (I think this is the dietician term) and keeps the protein levels up!

 

And like @Peanut68I was very slim (I think "skinny" is a better description!) and never had to think about what I ate till I was around 35 or so - oh how that carelessness has come back to bite me!

[Ruby Foo]

8 minutes ago, sarahw said:

It's much harder to control/modify what kids are eating when away at school. There just aren't enough staff to supervise that type of thing adequately...

 

This is exactly the issue. Kids away at vocational school have limited choices. Yes, school food is gradually becoming more nutritious nowadays, with nutritionists brought in to advise but that doesn’t mean they like the good choices and are going to eat them, or that they can look at the lists of ingredients. Going to the shops on a Saturday is loaded with psychological stuff of freedom from school... I can buy what I like, eat what I like, which is a mentally healthy escape I think....or maybe not.

[Kate_N]

This is such an interesting thread. As @Colman says, many of us have a more or less disordered relationship with food. 

 

But I think it's really important to see this in part as a result of the intense pressure there is on all of us as we're buying food - advertising, product placement in shops, the attractiveness of packaging and so on.

 

1 hour ago, valentina said:

Going to the shops on a Saturday is loaded with psychological stuff of freedom from school... I can buy what I like, eat what I like, which is a mentally healthy escape I think....or maybe not.

 

Again, food as something other than simply nutrition & fuel!