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Classical Ballet - UK or Russia to study?


TwoLeftFeet

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Hi again all,

 

Our DD has just started in a new school and has gone from the RAD system to Vaganova which she is loving.

 

Her plan was always to go to UK to study in a degree course at age 16.  She wants to study classical ballet, doesn't like Jazz but likes contemporary.  The problem for her is that most of the courses out there include lots of different genres of dance whereas she wants to specialise in just ballet.  So she is considering applying for Ballet West, Central School of Ballet, Royal Conservatoire of Scotland and Rambert - is there anywhere else that focuses mostly on ballet that I am missing?

 

Our next dilemma is that her new school trains students to audition for Perm State Ballet School in Russia - this is now an option for her also BUT theres the language barrier (I know they take Russian class there), its so so soooooooooooo far from home and from what I've read in research the training itself is very very tough both mentally and physically.  I know when I think about going there to study for 3 years I'm thinking about how far away she is and how hard it will be for her rather than whether this is the best training there is for her.

 

Moms and Dads, what would you do?  We are not from a dance background and don't live in the UK so we are very unsure about making the right decision for her .  Any advice is greatly appreciated.  If anyone has a friend, child, sister, brother that has gone the Russian route I would so love to hear from you either here or by pm.

 

thank you 

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I can't comment on the Russian side of things, but just wanted to mention that the UK schools you mention don't all focus specifically on ballet. Rambert has an equal 50:50 focus on ballet and contemporary and Ballet West offers a degree in dance,not ballet, so the curriculum reflects this - there's plenty of jazz and contemporary as well as ballet.

With jobs in the dance world being so hard to come by, most schools are looking to produce dancers with a broader skill set nowadays - in the UK anyway. RBS, ENBS, Elmhurst, Central and RCS are probably the most classically focused schools in the UK  but I think they all have other genres on the curriculum to some degree.

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49 minutes ago, Pups_mum said:

I can't comment on the Russian side of things, but just wanted to mention that the UK schools you mention don't all focus specifically on ballet. Rambert has an equal 50:50 focus on ballet and contemporary and Ballet West offers a degree in dance,not ballet, so the curriculum reflects this - there's plenty of jazz and contemporary as well as ballet.

With jobs in the dance world being so hard to come by, most schools are looking to produce dancers with a broader skill set nowadays - in the UK anyway. RBS, ENBS, Elmhurst, Central and RCS are probably the most classically focused schools in the UK  but I think they all have other genres on the curriculum to some degree.

Thanks Pups_mum.  I have compiled a list of all the schools that I could find with information from their websites and yes, they all seem to study difference genres of dance.  I can't find any that study classical ballet alone - Rambert seem to be the closest to what we want but I have been told that while they do say 50:50, it definitely isn't, its more geared towards the contemporary end (information received from a recent graduate).

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Most vocational (in the US they are called "pre-pro") schools don't focus just on ballet because nowadays dancers need a much broader skill set & training. So single focus on ballet might not be the most advisable criterion for course/institution choice. 

 

You also need to be clear about school-level or university-level studies ("school" doesn't mean university in the UK, and "college" in the UK is usually the last 2 years of high school - years 12 & 13). 

 

I'd be looking at the careers of people your DD might want to be like: where did they train? What companies does she like watching or might be ambitious to join? Where did those dancers train? 

 

I've seen Perm-trained dancers in close quarters (watching company class) in a couple of European ballet companies. They are a-may-zing. 

 

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Just one person's experience but....here are a couple of links to a blog by an Australian student who went to Perm (after the Bolshoi Ballet Academy) a few years ago.  She had a tough time - and personal challenges that may not apply to others - but interesting insights to offer:

https://balletschooldropout.wordpress.com/2016/12/02/surviving-sibera/

https://balletschooldropout.wordpress.com/2016/11/27/why-i-didnt-stay-in-moscow/

Edited by DD Driver
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I agree about Rambert too. Definately more Contemporary based. A parent asked at audition in January how many they had go into a ballet company and they could only name 1 person! So not the place to go if you want a ballet company at the end of your training!

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41 minutes ago, Dancing unicorn said:

I agree about Rambert too. Definately more Contemporary based. A parent asked at audition in January how many they had go into a ballet company and they could only name 1 person! So not the place to go if you want a ballet company at the end of your training!

 

Which is a shame, and I thought Rambert School was trying to increase the number of its graduates going into ballet companies.  Is it the case that Rambert grads are not going after ballet jobs though? Because that's different to going for ballet jobs but not getting them.

 

Anyway, TwoLeftFeet; the reason why UK upper schools offer Contemporary/Jazz/Spanish etc alongside ballet is that here in the UK, there simply are nowhere near enough ballet contracts for the number of graduates.  So students have to be versatile if they want paid work as a dancer.  Even our most purely classical company, Royal Ballet, has Contemporary in its repertoire.  When English National Ballet dances Contemporary pieces, you can tell which dancers have had some Contemporary training vs those who have trained in pure classical ballet, as the latter struggle slightly to get into Contemporary style.  

 

Is there a reason why you are not considering the Royal Ballet School and English National Ballet School, by the way?

 

Something I'm sure you've considered is pastoral care and how your dd will cope with living abroad at 16, probably doing her own cooking and shopping (and laundry), and how she would do all this in a foreign language.  Also, what happens if she becomes ill or injured.  That may sway your decision one way or the other.

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3 hours ago, DD Driver said:

Just one person's experience but....here are a couple of links to a blog by an Australian student who went to Perm (after the Bolshoi Ballet Academy) a few years ago.  She had a tough time - and personal challenges that may not apply to others - but interesting insights to offer:

https://balletschooldropout.wordpress.com/2016/12/02/surviving-sibera/

https://balletschooldropout.wordpress.com/2016/11/27/why-i-didnt-stay-in-moscow/

That is interesting and thanks for sharing.

 

I just showed DS (who is home for a flying visit) the blog from Moscow and he laughed and said yes all exactly what he would expect and almost exactly what he experienced (especially the Russian students never telling him what was going on!) and why was she even surprised by this?! and her room was twice the size of his in Vaganova! (Although he did have a kitchen and bathroom between 3 rooms (6 students) and all meals provided so you only had to cook if you wanted extra or something different). He did dance a lot more but he was cast in a LOT of performances and he was evidently liked by his teachers, which of course makes a big difference.

 

He did also say he thinks Vaganova integrates the international students a bit better and definitely everyone dances at least 5 or 6 hours a day even if they aren't cast in any performances, so that isn't the same, but I think in the end it is about expectation and what you are prepared to tolerate. He took it all in his stride, she evidently couldn't (I'm not blaming her at all - DS is VERY resilient - I know I would NEVER have coped with something like that....).

 

But I think helpful to know (if you were thinking of Russia) a second person corroborating the factual bit of her experience...Forewarned is forearmed and all that...

 

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There is another British dancer Tala Lee Turton who trained at the Bolshoi school and is now a professional ballet dancer in Russia.  Her mother also sometimes posts on this board.  However if she is not following this thread, Tala has an informative blog and website, so you can simply google her name and find lots of information.

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22 hours ago, CeliB said:

That is interesting and thanks for sharing.

 

I just showed DS (who is home for a flying visit) the blog from Moscow and he laughed and said yes all exactly what he would expect and almost exactly what he experienced (especially the Russian students never telling him what was going on!) and why was she even surprised by this?! and her room was twice the size of his in Vaganova! (Although he did have a kitchen and bathroom between 3 rooms (6 students) and all meals provided so you only had to cook if you wanted extra or something different). He did dance a lot more but he was cast in a LOT of performances and he was evidently liked by his teachers, which of course makes a big difference.

 

He did also say he thinks Vaganova integrates the international students a bit better and definitely everyone dances at least 5 or 6 hours a day even if they aren't cast in any performances, so that isn't the same, but I think in the end it is about expectation and what you are prepared to tolerate. He took it all in his stride, she evidently couldn't (I'm not blaming her at all - DS is VERY resilient - I know I would NEVER have coped with something like that....).

 

But I think helpful to know (if you were thinking of Russia) a second person corroborating the factual bit of her experience...Forewarned is forearmed and all that...

 

This is the key thing isn't it? It puts me in mind of a conversation I had with a friend shortly after we had both given birth in the same maternity unit. I was full of praise for my midwife who was calm, quiet, caring, gentle and non directive. She on the other hand had a horrible, cold, silent woman who didn't tell her what she was supposed to be doing and left her floundering. Same midwife of course, but different women with different expectations and needs. Some schools suit some students, as do some teachers. It's perfectly possible for some to be happy and thriving in exactly the same environment which is highly toxic to others. The tricky bit is knowing what is right for an individual, and being brave enough to step away if it becomes clear that you've got it wrong. I suspect training in Russia would be very polarising - fabulous for some but awful for others. I wouldn't underplay the value of gut feeling in such a choice.

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Kings International Ballet Academy are launching this year. They train in Russian but also will have RAD classes. They will be based in Leicestershire. There is also London Russian Ballet school which offers a vocational route. The issue with both could be funding but it would be closer than Perm. I believe both may have a couple of scholarships. 

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On 29/05/2018 at 18:49, Pas de Quatre said:

There is another British dancer Tala Lee Turton who trained at the Bolshoi school and is now a professional ballet dancer in Russia.  Her mother also sometimes posts on this board.  However if she is not following this thread, Tala has an informative blog and website, so you can simply google her name and find lots of information.

Thanks for the nudge Pas de Quatre!

 

My daughter trained at the Bolshoi Ballet Academy (also known as Moscow Choreographic School or MGAH).  She graduated in 2016 and is now working professionally with one of the State companies in Russia (Astrakhan State Opera and Ballet Theatre) - so she has been in Russia for six years! She started at the Bolshoi at the same time as the girl who wrote the post featured in the link DD Driver has shared, and knows her well, and the other three students mentioned in the articles.

 

It's true - the Bolshoi is not for everyone - tough and relentless training, the Russian students are always put first, however my daughter found the training she was looking for there and is convinced that she would not be the dancer she is today without the four years she spent at the Bolshoi.  (She is also certain she would not have become a professional classical dancer - her training to that point was just not good enough).  She describes the training as providing her with technical strength along with the ability to dance from the soul!  She wrote a blog called Life at the Bolshoi Ballet Academy which you can Google - she wrote a particularly popular article which is still being shared lots called Top tips for international students thinking about training at the Bolshoi Ballet Academy. There's lots of good advice in both the post and the very many comments linked to it, so it might be a good general read for the original poster, TwoLeftfeet (There is also a post called A day in the life of a Bolshoi Ballet Academy student).  The blog and posts will come up straight away on a Google search.

 

Since leaving the Bolshoi my daughter has started another blog which focuses on providing advice to students and parents, based on her experiences.  It's not meant to be prescriptive but just tells one person's story of how to work your way through the complex world of ballet and come out the other side!  One post of particular relevance to this thread is "Russian Ballet Training - Why It Makes All the Difference" - I've pasted a link here https://www.talaleeturton.com/single-post/2018/02/01/russian-ballet-training  For any other information, she shares lots about her life as a professional on her instagram account @talaleeturton.  

 

Happy to provide any other information from a parent's perspective either on this thread or through the private messages so please do get in touch.  It's definitely hard having your daughter train and live in Russia from the age of 16 but seeing her flourish has helped me through.  An added bonus, her company tours in the UK each Autumn (as Russian State Ballet and Opera House) so I actually get to see her dance lots without having to go to Russia! Result!

 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, Pups_mum said:

This is the key thing isn't it? It puts me in mind of a conversation I had with a friend shortly after we had both given birth in the same maternity unit. I was full of praise for my midwife who was calm, quiet, caring, gentle and non directive. She on the other hand had a horrible, cold, silent woman who didn't tell her what she was supposed to be doing and left her floundering. Same midwife of course, but different women with different expectations and needs. Some schools suit some students, as do some teachers. It's perfectly possible for some to be happy and thriving in exactly the same environment which is highly toxic to others. The tricky bit is knowing what is right for an individual, and being brave enough to step away if it becomes clear that you've got it wrong. I suspect training in Russia would be very polarising - fabulous for some but awful for others. I wouldn't underplay the value of gut feeling in such a choice.

 

Absolutely true. I got back in touch with one of my friends from ballet school 10 years after we had both left, and she told me she still had nightmares about her time there and was still somewhat traumatised by her experience (she gave up ballet immediately after leaving.) I on the other hand think it was the best time of my life and has had a positive impact on everything I've done since whether dance related or not.

 

On ‎29‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 10:47, TwoLeftFeet said:

She wants to study classical ballet, doesn't like Jazz but likes contemporary.  The problem for her is that most of the courses out there include lots of different genres of dance whereas she wants to specialise in just ballet.  So she is considering applying for Ballet West, Central School of Ballet, Royal Conservatoire of Scotland and Rambert - is there anywhere else that focuses mostly on ballet that I am missing? 

 

Royal Ballet school is the most obvious, then there's English National Ballet School and Elmhurst.

As others have said, most who graduate from Rambert go into contemporary.

Regarding Russia, it's useful to read blogs of other foreign students who've studied there, to see the pictures of dorms  and think about how she'd feel living in dorms like that. Is she naturally good at or interested in languages? I think that 16 year old vocational ballet students in the UK have a lot more freedom and independance than students of the same age in Russia, which may be a good or a bad thing depending on the student!

 

From your post I'm not sure where you're based, but is there a reason you're not looking at countries other than the UK and Russia? I'm asking first of all because there are some very good schools outside of those countries and secondly because some of those schools might not dedicate as many hours to dance styles other than ballet as UK schools do.

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46 minutes ago, invisiblecircus said:

 

Absolutely true. I got back in touch with one of my friends from ballet school 10 years after we had both left, and she told me she still had nightmares about her time there and was still somewhat traumatised by her experience (she gave up ballet immediately after leaving.) I on the other hand think it was the best time of my life and has had a positive impact on everything I've done since whether dance related or not.

 

 

Royal Ballet school is the most obvious, then there's English National Ballet School and Elmhurst.

As others have said, most who graduate from Rambert go into contemporary.

Regarding Russia, it's useful to read blogs of other foreign students who've studied there, to see the pictures of dorms  and think about how she'd feel living in dorms like that. Is she naturally good at or interested in languages? I think that 16 year old vocational ballet students in the UK have a lot more freedom and independance than students of the same age in Russia, which may be a good or a bad thing depending on the student!

 

From your post I'm not sure where you're based, but is there a reason you're not looking at countries other than the UK and Russia? I'm asking first of all because there are some very good schools outside of those countries and secondly because some of those schools might not dedicate as many hours to dance styles other than ballet as UK schools do.

Thank you so much for your advice.

 

The reason I don't mention other countries is simply that our idea was always to send her to Scotland to train but now that she has moved ballet schools, her new school focuses on training their dancers for Russia.  I'm certainly not opposed to training in other countries but I think maybe the thought of sending her away is more difficult for me than it may be for her!  I'm a worrier and an overthinker - she is quiet, shy and also a worrier which is why I'm quite anxious about sending such a sensitive person to Russia.  She won't be 16 until October 2019 and so far the only places that I've found to take her at 15 in September 2019 are Ballet West Scotland and Russia.  We may decide to wait until 2020 till shes a month off 17 starting - its so so hard to know what is for the best...

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One thing to consider is that if she is 15 when starting in the UK at any upper school, she will be one of the youngest - UK students wouldn't start until 16 at the very youngest.  I know there are exceptions, but from a social point of view it may not be ideal.  To put it another way, why wouldn't you wait until she is nearly 17, especially if moving from abroad?  Are there specific reasons you would want her to start at 15?

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19 hours ago, Mummy twinkle toes said:

Kings International Ballet Academy are launching this year. They train in Russian but also will have RAD classes. They will be based in Leicestershire. There is also London Russian Ballet school which offers a vocational route. The issue with both could be funding but it would be closer than Perm. I believe both may have a couple of scholarships. 

 

London Russian offer scholarships if they see something in you, and I reckon it's a school with a good future. What I liked is they tell you how it is, not what you want to hear.

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51 minutes ago, meadowblythe said:

One thing to consider is that if she is 15 when starting in the UK at any upper school, she will be one of the youngest - UK students wouldn't start until 16 at the very youngest.  I know there are exceptions, but from a social point of view it may not be ideal.  To put it another way, why wouldn't you wait until she is nearly 17, especially if moving from abroad?  Are there specific reasons you would want her to start at 15?

 

I assume it’s becsuse in the OP’s Home country secondary education ends at 15. She spoke in another post of her Dd taking her Junior Cert. If it’s somewhere like Ireland they then do a 2-3 year Leaving Certificate Course from 15-17/18

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London russian is probably a good half way house now that they have a proper full time voc course (that wasn't available when my DS was 14 which is why he ended up in washington). They have good links with the bolshoi (school and company) and when DS was last home he did some.classes there and said it was exactly the same as company class (at the bolshoi). By the way I don't think the freedom the students are allowed in russia is greatly different to other places. DS found it no more restrictive than USA and if you are in moscow or st P you are right in the heart of the city so don't have to wrestle with transport much

 They do have a curfew in the dorms but it's quite reasonable. ..

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53 minutes ago, CeliB said:

By the way I don't think the freedom the students are allowed in russia is greatly different to other places. DS found it no more restrictive than USA and if you are in moscow or st P you are right in the heart of the city so don't have to wrestle with transport much

 They do have a curfew in the dorms but it's quite reasonable. ..

 

Happy to be corrected! I don't know what the situation was at your DS's school in the USA but I know that in Russia, accomodation is provided by the school whereas at some of the British vocational upper schools, including Central which OP mentioned, students live independently, often without supervision and are responsible for their own meals, laundry, cleaning etc.

I lived in a dorm and curfew was at 7pm whether you were 10 or 20! As an older student I would have preferred more freedom and independence but younger students, especially those living away from home for the first time, might feel more secure with supervised accomodation and meals provided.

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ah yes of course-  i was thinking of schools where students are in school accommodation (where I presume they do have some kind of curfew) so yes of course somewhere where they live out would be different.. I guess tho' if you are an international student in a foreign city your parents may be quite glad to know you are in a dorm with a Babushka to check that you made it home at night!

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On 31/05/2018 at 15:15, TwoLeftFeet said:

Thank you so much for your advice.

 

The reason I don't mention other countries is simply that our idea was always to send her to Scotland to train but now that she has moved ballet schools, her new school focuses on training their dancers for Russia.  I'm certainly not opposed to training in other countries but I think maybe the thought of sending her away is more difficult for me than it may be for her!  I'm a worrier and an overthinker - she is quiet, shy and also a worrier which is why I'm quite anxious about sending such a sensitive person to Russia.  She won't be 16 until October 2019 and so far the only places that I've found to take her at 15 in September 2019 are Ballet West Scotland and Russia.  We may decide to wait until 2020 till shes a month off 17 starting - its so so hard to know what is for the best...

Have you considered the Berlin State Ballet School? it is a fabulous place and they look after their students really well. There is a big classical focus and many opportunities to dance alongside the Berlin State Ballet. They don't necessary look at the age that strictly (our son started at the age of 9 as a boarder, as he was already in year 5, which is their entry level - he is now going into year 10 next year). Our son told us about an American girl who came into year 11 and was only 15 at the time.

 

http://ballettschule-berlin.de/en/

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On 29/05/2018 at 17:56, CeliB said:

That is interesting and thanks for sharing.

 

I just showed DS (who is home for a flying visit) the blog from Moscow and he laughed and said yes all exactly what he would expect and almost exactly what he experienced (especially the Russian students never telling him what was going on!) and why was she even surprised by this?! and her room was twice the size of his in Vaganova! (Although he did have a kitchen and bathroom between 3 rooms (6 students) and all meals provided so you only had to cook if you wanted extra or something different). He did dance a lot more but he was cast in a LOT of performances and he was evidently liked by his teachers, which of course makes a big difference.

 

He did also say he thinks Vaganova integrates the international students a bit better and definitely everyone dances at least 5 or 6 hours a day even if they aren't cast in any performances, so that isn't the same, but I think in the end it is about expectation and what you are prepared to tolerate. He took it all in his stride, she evidently couldn't (I'm not blaming her at all - DS is VERY resilient - I know I would NEVER have coped with something like that....).

 

But I think helpful to know (if you were thinking of Russia) a second person corroborating the factual bit of her experience...Forewarned is forearmed and all that...

 

Hi CeliB. Wondering if you can offer some advice with your experience of Russia. My son who will be yr10 are going to Moscow and St Petersburg next year as part of their History GCSE course. They’ve been offered the opportunity to go and watch a ballet or folklore performance one evening. None of the boys are dancers but a few are surrounded by Sisters that do!  The opportunity appears too good to miss for the cultural experience, unfortunately I can’t offer any advice to my son as I’ve only experienced ENB performances in London. Any words of advice with dos or don’ts we should consider. That’s even if July is the right season in Moscow for the ballet companies. Thank you 

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Hello balletbean, it depends when in July - the companies close for the summer around the end of the third week.

 

Have they been offered a specific company/performance or is it up to them to ask what they want to see? A lot of the ballets would be sold out already I think so they would need to decide quite soon... It should pretty easy to find out on line what is on the repertoire for the time they are there as most of the companies you can look up and then translate the site into English. I think it would depends really on what is being offered to them...

 

Re ballet in St P the Mariinsky is really the top company in the city although the Mikhailovsky are also a very good company. In Moscow Bolshoi is of course the most famous but the Stanislavsky is also very good. The Bolshoi company season finishes with Ratmansky's Romeo and Juliet which is a great ballet for those who aren't particularly well versed in ballet as the music is great and of course everyone knows the story.... The Bolshoi historic stage is VERY impressive I have to say... it would be a pretty unforgettable experience of they could get to see the company as they are really amazing.

 

As for do's and don'ts I can't think of many really. It's a bit like ballet here- some people dress up but others don't so the dress code isn't something to worry about.. I guess the only don't I can think of is don't buy a drink in the bar in the interval the prices are EYE WATERING!!!!! Don't expect anyone to speak any English (though I assume they will have a local guide?). If he has an iPhone the text translation app is really useful (though you sometimes get rather crazy results it can save your life in restaurants!).

 

(By the way if they have the chance in St P there is a fantastic and quite famous sweet shop Elizeevsky on Nevsky Prospekt (not far from the Vaganova Academy) which is worth a look- it's all art deco style and they have amazing sweets and chocolate sculptures and lots of weirdly flavoured Russian tea (and you can have coffee and cake there too)  and the outside of the building is really beautiful... )

 

If there's anything else specific do ask - I can ask DS if I don't know...

 

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Wow, thank you for all the information incl the sweet shop! I’m sure the boys will definitely incl that one one the list. The trip has been arranged through their History tutor but I am finding that the places of interest on the list crossover Performing Arts, Art and Literature ie Romeo and Juliet. Which will benefit other subjects. 

Just finalising exact numbers to travel and then seeking numbers for the optional excursions shortly. Second week of July is the actual trip but they also require a one day trip to London just for their Visa’s!! Never had this when I was at school. More like a day trip to the zoo! 

Do you know much about Folklore performances, do they produce their own shows or are they ‘Acts’ within another production. Might interest some of the boys more than an entire classical ballet performance. 

They will have a local tour guide for the duration, which is fortunate as Russian is not exactly the easiest language to understand. I can’t even fathom out the alphabet!!

 

I really do appreciate your time to respond. 

Thank you. 

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yes i agree getting visas is a NIGHTMARE. And expensive. And they don't always give you all the requisite info until you get there, necessitating a wait in a long queue to use the computers to edit your application (and pay again for use of computer and reprinting of the visa)....make sure he takes extra cash!

 

I don't know anything about folk dances but can ask DS...

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Do school trip students have to go to London for visas now? When my dd went with school (4 or 5 years ago) we had to go into school one evening to fill out the visa application online.  It took ages as there were about 30 pages to fill in, but it was all done there and then.  

 

Maybe it helped that dd's Russian teacher had collated all the info needed? She also booked the "arty" evening activities in advance, including Sleeping Beauty at the Mariinsky.

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34 minutes ago, Anna C said:

Do school trip students have to go to London for visas now? When my dd went with school (4 or 5 years ago) we had to go into school one evening to fill out the visa application online.  It took ages as there were about 30 pages to fill in, but it was all done there and then.  

 

Maybe it helped that dd's Russian teacher had collated all the info needed? She also booked the "arty" evening activities in advance, including Sleeping Beauty at the Mariinsky.

Biometric data (fingerprints) has been required for every Russian visa application since Dec 2014. This means you have to go in person to one if the visa centres - they are in a London, Manchester and Edinburgh.

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51 minutes ago, Anna C said:

Do school trip students have to go to London for visas now? When my dd went with school (4 or 5 years ago) we had to go into school one evening to fill out the visa application online.  It took ages as there were about 30 pages to fill in, but it was all done there and then.  

 

Maybe it helped that dd's Russian teacher had collated all the info needed? She also booked the "arty" evening activities in advance, including Sleeping Beauty at the Mariinsky.

Sadly they do. Which requires a day trip (flight) to London for the class just for a few minutes of fingerprinting. They then retain the boys passports for two weeks. Just hoping the airlines allow the boys back on the flight without photo ID! 😉

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