Anna C Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 If your dd remains serious about ballet and wanting to take it further then there are definitely sacrifices to be made along the way, such as missing sleepovers the night before Associates, having to leave parties earlier, and so on. I appreciate that she likes her friends at the current class and that you understandably feel loyalty to the teacher. However. Studying both RAD and ISTD at two different teachers is going to make life very difficult and your daughter could struggle with two different styles - the result possibly being poorer exam results at both. Associates are almost always non-syllabus and are designed to compliment local training, so there's not often confusion between what's being taught, which there would be by being at both an ISTD ballet school and an RAD one. A good school should ideally enter a child for an exam when that child is ready, rather than waiting for the whole class to enter at once, so I would guess that the RAD school you looked at probably has at least two exam sessions each year. Being perfectly honest, I would expect a 9 year old to be higher up the grades - not that the exams themselves are the be-all and end-all but more that they instill the basic techniques so well if taught properly. Although at 9-11, full-time schools and good associate schemes are looking for potential rather than the finished article, it will help hugely if a child has a good grasp of basic technique. It does sound as though your daughter will struggle to progress quickly enough at one 45 minute class a week, with messing around and older girls teaching. We never like to upset our children and absolutely, don't force your dd to move - but if she wants to pursue the ballet dream, she has to understand that moving schools will help her, and she will make friends. And when push comes to shove, you're the customer - are you getting good value and visible results from your current school? If not, the sooner you move, the better. It's scary, but you have to put your child and your family first. Sometimes people liken ballet schools at all levels to academic schools - if wouldn't tolerate it at academic school, why do we tolerate it in ballet (or football, or horseriding, or music)? Lots to think about! ☺️ 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Hmm, you see my daughter began ballet when she was 6 & was out straight into a Grade 1 class (she should have gone into primary but timings clashed so she spent two years in grade 1) in my exoerience there is very little difference in levels/grades between the children who began aged 3/4 & the ones who began aged 5/6. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legseleven Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Would the teacher consider your DD doing grade 2 alongside grade 1? That way she could be ‘stretched’ as well as getting some extra training. I don’t think it could reasonably be considered a problem as you said that children her age are in the grade 2 class? Also, remember that there is no requirement for all of the grade exams to be taken (or indeed for any exams to be taken at all) - my DD missed her grade 2 RAD ballet and went from grade 4 to intermediate foundation with no problems at all; her teachers just ensured that she was working at a level they considered appropriate for her and that she was taught all of the increasing technique ‘vocabulary’, just not necessarily by means of exam syllabus work. Having said that, the fact that the teacher isn’t actually teaching for most of the class is a HUGE red flag for me. You are paying for expertise from a qualified teacher - and one who is apparently worried that your DD going to another dance school as well might mean that she wouldn’t receive the appropriate quality training! - not for older students to be left in charge! This is dangerous and is also frankly taking money under false pretences. I would certainly be voting with my feet if a discussion of my concerns in this regard didn’t result in a complete change... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarplummum Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 Thanks guys, you're all right, i need to speak up really! Legseleven- haha I know i was gobsmacked when she said that 😲 The school she's at atm say that exams MUST be taken to move onto the next grade....but i shall ask her if working on both grades will be an option. Well ive just got off the phone with the other ballet teacher and she is so lovely 😊 I explained the friend situation and what her current teacher has said, and she has offered to let dd take class with her for extra tuition, but she wouldn't be classed as a student of the school ( she would still officially be a student of her current school) and wouldn't take the RAD exams, but move up through the grades on her own assessment. BUT it still has to be agreed by her current teacher, and she is happy to have a chat with her teacher regarding any concerns. The new teacher said she could understand if her school was in the same village, but it isnt, it's a 20 minute drive away! Im super happy at this prospect, dd still gets to have class with her "friends " but also gets extra tuition with a great school without having to take exams (so no clashing with dates etc ). But I've still got to ask for permission 😠 I might just say that she IS going to this other REPUTABLE school, on the basis of increasing her tuition hours which you can't offer currently!.... What do you think? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 If your daughter is serious about wanting to dance, I would move her now. My youngest dd experienced bullying in a dance school where the teacher did other things out of the lesson. I paid for to have a full lesson and to be safe whilst she did so. Your current dance teacher does not sound to me as if she has your dd’s interests at heart and there are possible safety issues here too. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarplummum Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 Oh, changing the topic slightly, i rang RBS the other day to ask about JA , they told me the deadline was Monday just gone, but that if i could get application in that day they would process it. Well i did....eek! Now im 💩ing my pants, especially about the photos i sent in with it! Because it was last minute I had to do them myself, in the kitchen 🙈 Omg, can just imagine their faces when they look at them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legseleven Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 That is great news, both about the offer of extra classes at the other school and about the RBS associate application! I think you would be absolutely right to inform your current teacher that your DD WILL be taking up the offer of extra classes rather than asking her - you know what her response will be. On the basis that your DD wants to do more ballet and that this is not going to be offered at her current school, you don’t have a choice. (And the requirement that exams are taken in order is nonsense - what if a beginner aged 10 started, would they have to do all exams from pre-primary onwards?!) Your DD will make friends at the other school and that may sway her in favour of a move after all 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarplummum Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, Legseleven said: That is great news, both about the offer of extra classes at the other school and about the RBS associate application! I think you would be absolutely right to inform your current teacher that your DD WILL be taking up the offer of extra classes rather than asking her - you know what her response will be. On the basis that your DD wants to do more ballet and that this is not going to be offered at her current school, you don’t have a choice. (And the requirement that exams are taken in order is nonsense - what if a beginner aged 10 started, would they have to do all exams from pre-primary onwards?!) Your DD will make friends at the other school and that may sway her in favour of a move after all Thanks 😊 although dont think she's prepared enough for RBS but we are treating it as a day out! Well the fact the other school has said she doesn't need to do exams to progress proves this, honestly she has been so helpful and just wants to help dd achieve her goals, why can't all teachers have this mantra? Well this is my hidden agenda mwahaha 😈 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Well done! Absolutely the right thing to treat the JA application as a lovely day out. How lovely that RBS have extended the deadline. I agree with telling the current teacher rather than asking - she'll either agree to it, in which case great, or she'll give you an ultimatum of "My school OR the RAD school" - in which case you can move with a clear conscience. (Although if you do stay, I would bring up the issue of students "teaching" without supervision). 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola H Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 6 hours ago, Legseleven said: <snip> Having said that, the fact that the teacher isn’t actually teaching for most of the class is a HUGE red flag for me. You are paying for expertise from a qualified teacher - and one who is apparently worried that your DD going to another dance school as well might mean that she wouldn’t receive the appropriate quality training! - not for older students to be left in charge! This is dangerous and is also frankly taking money under false pretences. I would certainly be voting with my feet if a discussion of my concerns in this regard didn’t result in a complete change... there's nothing wrong with assistants - as long as someone who is a teacher is in the room , a lot of the adminstrative trivia and taking money is stuff the assistants should be doing ( the Studios i take one of my regular classes at as a rosta or half a dozen of the older girls who do reception / tea bar duties one day a week for payment or payiment in classes ... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streetdancer Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I would move her Sugarplumum. My DD was in a dance school that was down to earth and community minded and we all loved its attitude. But DD languished at G2 for 2 and a half years and the jazz teaching in particular was very uninspiring. She was reluctant to leave but made the leap 12 months ago and seriously she has never looked back. She's gone from 2 classes to 7 classes a week, the principal encouraged her to audition for RBS Mids (which she did - really brave) and she's achieved a final audition for Northern Ballet. She's still only at grade 3, aged 11, but she's started pointe and has been asked if she'd like to start IF, so her previous slow progress is not holding her back. True, it was a little awkward when I saw the old principal but hey, we're grown-ups. I hope this might encourage you to take the leap! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatasmum Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 On 22/03/2018 at 02:45, smallbythesea said: I also second Peter and Shannon Parker. Not sure of the age, but there's also chantry school of contemporary and balletic arts in Grantham. Chantry is from age 8 upwards, second Sunday in month 11.30-1 but they can also do modern class straight after. https://www.chantry-school.org/pre-associate-programme.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatasmum Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) @sugarplummum my daughter was at a dance school where the assistants would 'teach' the ballet class unsupervised, they were unqualified and one was a year 7 teaching primary !! The teacher didn't want to put my daughter in for the grade 1 exam when she was aged 9 and a half. After this we resolved to move her but she didn't want to leave her friends. One day I said she could have her ears pierced if she would move dance schools, she said YES straightaway! Edited March 23, 2018 by Tatasmum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legseleven Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 6 hours ago, Nicola H said: there's nothing wrong with assistants - as long as someone who is a teacher is in the room , a lot of the adminstrative trivia and taking money is stuff the assistants should be doing ( the Studios i take one of my regular classes at as a rosta or half a dozen of the older girls who do reception / tea bar duties one day a week for payment or payiment in classes ... ) Absolutely. But this is not what this teacher is doing. She is leaving the room and while she deals with administrative matters outside, these young unqualified assistants are supposedly teaching the class. Ridiculous to have such a complete role reversal! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointetoes Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 I fully understand your daughter wanted to stay at the school her friends are at but personally I would move her. DD stayed at her old school for wat too long, she finally agreed to move and is now at vocational 6th form. Her old teacher spent years bulking her and constantly putting her down to the point where we reached make or break, she moved schools. Your daughter can still see her current dance school friends away from the school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarplummum Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 Thanks so much for the advice everyone I really appreciate it 😊 I'm going to see how her teacher reacts when I tell her she'll be going to another school for extra tuition, and if it's a negative response I'm taking her out altogether! Just got to decide wether to make the phone call today or tomorrow 😕 but I'll let you know how it goes 😉 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Good luck, Sugarplum. I and it seems many others on here, think you're absolutely doing the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola Moriarty Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Dear Sugarplummum Lovely of you to share your story. We run a Sunday Associate class down in Sevenoaks, Kent. We do have a few parents come from 2hours away, but maybe Nottingham would be a bit of a stretch! We also run many live-in courses at our family home (only 12 guests) throughout the year which will give young dancers a chance to live away from home and spend it with other like minded students. Please see out FaceBook and Instagram pages for lots of pictures and more details. See the Easter course (1 place left) and our intensives at the end of August (filling fast). We have guests come from all over the country, its really is a special place to be. We try to be honest with parents as well as the children about there ability and direction in which to channel efforts and finances (not cheap being a BM) and look to make confident and well rounded dancers as well as humans. A happy dancer is a good dancer. The pressure young children put on their tiny shoulders is a big problem. If you need more details or would like to chat, please email me nicola@woodsidedanceretreat.com Good luck, and I hope I have helped. Regards Nic x 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wigglybunny Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 On 23/03/2018 at 16:51, Sugarplummum said: Oh, changing the topic slightly, i rang RBS the other day to ask about JA , they told me the deadline was Monday just gone, but that if i could get application in that day they would process it. Well i did....eek! Now im 💩ing my pants, especially about the photos i sent in with it! Because it was last minute I had to do them myself, in the kitchen 🙈 Omg, can just imagine their faces when they look at them! Sorry, I feel like I am gatecrashing your thread, but I would say go with your gut feeling. If you are concerned, move her. In all honesty, what have you got to lose? And as others have said, if your dd is serious about any kind of dancing, it will be difficult to stay with friends the whole time. And as regards photos...your post made me chuckle, as I completely empathise. I am so disorganised, I have always had to take DS’s photos for any applications...on my phone...in the living room! One time, (to my absolute shame!!)I had completely forgotten that it was the closing date for summer school and I had to go and get him up out of bed at 10pm to take them. But he has always got in to whatever he has applied for, so although I wouldn’t advocate being as rubbish as me, it’s definitely not the quality of photography that makes the difference. They know what they are looking for and what will be will be. All the very best of luck, whatever you decide. xx 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Goodness @Sugarplummum your story sounds very similar to that of a woman I work with. Her daughter, just turned 9, is very passionate about her ballet. While she is working at a grade 2 level and able to do 2 classes a week, the quality of training does not seem as high as other schools in the same area. Her daughter, who has talent, is not getting pushed to her full potential, as the teacher doesn't want her to move ahead of the other pupils in the class who wish to remain purely recreational dancers. There's also a serious drop in training hours beyond about grade 5, so looking ahead there is no future at this school. There are other issues at the school as well that I won't go into here. My coworker has been agonising about whether the move her to a more serious school, they feel loyalty to the teacher and her daughter doesn't want to leave her friends. I've said to her what I'll say to you - clearly, you have already lost confidence in her teacher. Moving forward with all of these negative thoughts about the teacher and the school in your mind is probably not in the best interests of your daughter because it is simply unavoidable that some of these feelings will slip out from time to time. Do you really want to keep leaving your daughter in the hands of a person you don't trust just so your daughter can stay with friends? And paying for the privilege? For friends who might not still be dancing in a couple years? You can choose to stay if you want, but if you stay you have to accept the school as you find it. Given the serious red flags you have raised in this post, and the fact that in your own words you have described a "hidden agenda" to move her, it sounds to me like you already have one foot out the door... Maybe the old teacher will accept her doing classes at two studios, and maybe this will be the best option in the long run, but even if that happens I have to ask, do you see your daughter still dancing there in a year? 2 years? 5 years? If the answer is no, why kid yourself now? This probably sounds harsh and I don't mean it to be, I know you have to balance your daughters enjoyment of dancing with the best training available in your circumstances. No one wants her to move and be miserable and quit dancing! I just want you to seriously consider whether you're fully committed to her training at this school, or whether it is time to cut and run. I know my coworker has decided that her daughter will be moving schools at the end of this year. That doesn't mean leaving all her friends immediately without saying goodbye, but it gives a definite end date and gives her daughter a chance to get excited about the new school and new opportunities. Could this be an option for you? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarplummum Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 20 hours ago, Wigglybunny said: And as regards photos...your post made me chuckle, as I completely empathise. I am so disorganised, I have always had to take DS’s photos for any applications...on my phone...in the living room! One time, (to my absolute shame!!)I had completely forgotten that it was the closing date for summer school and I had to go and get him up out of bed at 10pm to take them. Haha phew, glad I'm not alone! Who knows mabey the steam mop and ironing pile in the background will give her the upper hand 😜 haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarplummum Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 @Viv @Wigglybunny Thank you for your wise words 😊 Working towards a date could be an option 🤔 I'll mention it to dd x 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confuddled Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Sugarplum - I discussed moving schools for over a year with my dd, before she actually made the leap. It was the right decision - she’s much, much happier at the new school and got on to an Associates scheme she would never have known about at the old school - but it did have to be her decision. I talked about it (A LOT) with her, and she dithered, and was worried about losing her friends etc. It’s actually worked out well, as she see’s some of her friends from the old school at auditions / youth ballet, and I’ve arranged a couple of play dates, too. My top tip, would be to see if the potential new ballet school has a summer school. It was by doing two weeks of summer schools (run by two different local ballet schools) that dd realised how much more fun and relaxed (yet still high quality) teaching could be, and she chose one of those ballet schools. She would have been happy with either - we ended up going with the one that had the timetable that worked around her other commitments. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Yes, I sent mine to the summer school run by the ballet school that they eventually joined. They loved it and had no worries about going there when they started as they already knew several of the girls from summer school. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Midland Theatre Ballet? There are also regional Cecchetti associates. My dd did the North ones and had never done Cecchetti. Not sure if any in Midlands? Good luck!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarplummum Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 Hi, Well it is a go! Told her current dance teacher that she WILL be attending another class and the response was positive 🤗 She has given her blessing which I'm (and dd) so happy about and a massive weight off my shoulders! So we have gone from only 45 mins of ISTD ballet per week to: 45 mins of ISTD ballet pw 2 hours of RAD ballet pw OPES summer school this year And applying for the following this year: RBS JA EYB Midlands Associates Staffordshire youth Ballet associates Really hoping she gets a yes from one of them 😕 She's very excited 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarplummum Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 Would like to say a huge thank you to everyone for all your advice, I do not think I would of had the guts to speak up otherwise 😁 x 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Fantastic - glad it's working out SPM 😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Sugarplummum said: Would like to say a huge thank you to everyone for all your advice, I do not think I would of had the guts to speak up otherwise 😁 x Wonderful! Do stay around and let us know how it all goes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legseleven Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Wonderful news! Please let us know how she gets on x 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Delighted it seems to have worked out with regards to your teacher. Keep us posted on your DD's progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streetdancer Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 That's great to hear - good luck to your DD in her new adventures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loulou Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 If you can get to Birmingham you also have Elmhurst Associates nicholson school of dance Associates- Annette is an rbs mid ass teacher and very well regraded midland theatre ballet midas HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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