Sim Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 ToThePointe I think that's a really interesting question...why don't you start a new thread? There could be some interesting debate on who is strong, indeed, what constitutes strong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 On a slightly different note, which female figures in ballet do you, or anyone else here, think of as strong? I guess Odette sacrifices herself to save her swan mates - a pretty big sign of strength no? Odette, yes. Medora too, but depends on the version, Sylvia's a tough lady, does the Firebird count? Will give it some thought overnight. It occurs to me that the strong women turn up in opera, can't think of an equivalent to say Tosca in ballet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Do you think that's partly down to the fact that they almost invariably need a man to partner them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToThePointe Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Strong women survive - they don't finish up dead. Interesting that you suggest Tosca is strong - she ends up dead and for the man she loves... I have started a new thread though to continue this interesting topic! To get back to Romeo and Juliet, I have written my thoughts about Yasmine Naghdi and Matthew Ball's performance here: http://tothepointemagazine.wix.com/tothepointemagazine#!A-Debut-To-Remember/cmbz/562d50940cf260076d1d676d 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Lovely piece, ToThePointe. I think that any of us who were present that afternoon will be able to really feel your words and your emotions. Thank you for sharing it with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Beautiful review TTP. Wish I could have seen them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billboyd Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 Tosca's man is executed - she jumps rather than face arrest and execution. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToThePointe Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 ...a situation she finds herself in because she loves Cavaradossi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina G. Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Interesting that you suggest Tosca is strong - she ends up dead and for the man she loves... I have started a new thread though to continue this interesting topic! To get back to Romeo and Juliet, I have written my thoughts about Yasmine Naghdi and Matthew Ball's performance here: http://tothepointemagazine.wix.com/tothepointemagazine#!A-Debut-To-Remember/cmbz/562d50940cf260076d1d676d Thank you for such a wonderful review. I am so glad I was there to witness their unforgettable debut! I hope we won't have to wait too long to see these two great artists -in every sense of the word- dance together again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 ...a situation she finds herself in because she loves Cavaradossi Sorry to disagree again, but no, she dies directly because Scarpia is besotted with her. He arrests Cavaradossi because of his political affiliations, not just because he sees him as a rival. After Tosca has killed Scarpia, she has no way of escape and flings herself from the ramparts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 To get back to Romeo and Juliet, I have written my thoughts about Yasmine Naghdi and Matthew Ball's performance here: http://tothepointemagazine.wix.com/tothepointemagazine#!A-Debut-To-Remember/cmbz/562d50940cf260076d1d676d ToThePointe - after the matinee featuring Matthew Ball and Yasmine Nagdhi I felt that I wanted to bottle their performance, it was so special. Your review has not only helped me to revisit their wonderful debuts but it is nice to think that, because it is in print, it will remain around for ever. I hope that they (and their fellow dancers) see it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPD444 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Interesting that you suggest Tosca is strong - she ends up dead and for the man she loves... I have started a new thread though to continue this interesting topic! To get back to Romeo and Juliet, I have written my thoughts about Yasmine Naghdi and Matthew Ball's performance here: http://tothepointemagazine.wix.com/tothepointemagazine#!A-Debut-To-Remember/cmbz/562d50940cf260076d1d676d Could someone help me on how to read the link. When I click on it the website opens but no articles are shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mallinson Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Could someone help me on how to read the link. When I click on it the website opens but no articles are shown. Try this 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Newcombe Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Thanks John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPD444 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Try this Thank you John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina G. Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 it is nice to think that, because it is in print, it will remain around for ever. I hope that they (and their fellow dancers) see it. It is especially nice that someone took the "trouble" to write down a detailed review for all of us to remember. The pair were given a raw deal by the ballet press. It's of no importance that Ball is "only" a first artist and Naghdi "only" a soloist, their R&J partnership (and individual performance) was one we have seldom witnessed over the last decade or so, yet no critic deemed it necessary nor bothered to write a review as a record of their debut. No print space available perhaps...? (but Mark Monahan "managed" to get print space in The Telegraph to write a lengthy review about the Golding/Hayward debut...). Moaning over! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina G. Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 It is especially nice that someone took the "trouble" to write down a detailed review for all of us to remember. The pair were given a raw deal by the ballet press. It's of no importance that Ball is "only" a first artist and Naghdi "only" a soloist, their R&J partnership (and individual performance) was one we have seldom witnessed over the last decade or so, yet no critic deemed it necessary nor bothered to write a review as a record of their debut. No print space available perhaps...? (but Mark Monahan "managed" to get print space in The Telegraph to write a lengthy review about the Golding/Hayward debut...). Moaning over! ...and Judith Mackrell also "found" print space in The Guardian to review this latest debut...Or is this all instigated/influenced by the RB Press Office who'll ask the critics to write about a particular dancer's debut and not about others? Do they manipulate the critics as such? I find this truly mind boggling why the greatest R&J sensation of this season "the new star-crossed R&J lovers" (as they were called by Graham Spicer) were so ignored. (my moaning will stop here, sorry). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I don't think critics get much choice about which performances they can review; when I process press releases for the Forum there is usually a press performance specifically listed. If a reviewer wanted to see a different cast, I assume they would have to pay for their ticket and that would probably not guarantee them space in the newspaper. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I find this truly mind boggling why the greatest R&J sensation of this season "the new star-crossed R&J lovers" (as they were called by Graham Spicer) were so ignored. (my moaning will stop here, sorry). I do feel a sense that an injustice has been done although I do not begrudge Francesca Hayward the limelight she is being given. However, Yasmine and Matthew can look back not only at the immense achievement of their performance but also at the almost unprecedented reception they had from crowds at the Stage Door and out in Floral Street. And, 3 weeks after their show, we are still talking about them on here. That speaks volumes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Newcombe Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 There were a few critics at the performance of Naghdi and Ball who for whatever reasons did not publish a review. One of them was not impressed. Word of mouth passed on by a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penelopesimpson Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Try this Thanks for that. I couldn't read it either - now I can. TTP: Wonderful detailed review which made me so sad I missed it. Stupidly I spent my money on Macrae and Salenko and it was fine but no more. Your review said it all. I saw Hayward dance Manon with Edward Watson and she was magnificent. I so wish they had given Naghdi and Ball another go - just the one was disappointing for so many people who wanted tickets. Thank you again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToThePointe Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I agree that they should have had another go, maybe later in the run. It would have been so interesting to see it maybe a couple of weeks later to compare the performances. Also after so much rehearsal time, I'm sure they would have liked another performance! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 There were a few critics at the performance of Naghdi and Ball who for whatever reasons did not publish a review. One of them was not impressed. Word of mouth passed on by a friend. I find it a little bit annoying when I read this sort of thing. I am not having a go at you, Tony, but the critic who said they were not impressed. They should have either published a review saying what they were disappointed by, or kept their mouth shut. This is just the sort of "gossip" that the ballet world could do without. IMO 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina G. Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 The critic was not impressed by WHAT exactly? When the pair got a standing ovation, Floral Street was packed and three weeks later people still talk about them! I agree Fonty, a very superficial remark if it can't be backed up by facts (or was he/she just being infantile? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Perhaps they were there as private individuals? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Perhaps they were there as private individuals? Even if the person was there in a private capacity, the opinion of a critic carries far more weight than that of a private individual. I am not suggesting that every critic has to write a glowing review when newcomers take to the stage, but if a professional is going to make their feelings known, they should at least say what it was that left them less than enthusiastic. Edited to add that perhaps the critic was just talking to a friend, and the information was overheard? I still stand by my previous comment, though! Edited October 26, 2015 by Fonty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Apart from one venerable gentleman, I wouldn't know a national newspaper critic if I fell over them! If I had overheard something I would have just assumed it was a private individual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gottokeepworking Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Yasmine and Matthew are on the front cover of the November issue of Dancing Times. I would image the article will be in the form of interviews rather than a review of their debut. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I see that underneath the Guardian review by Judith Mackrell there are several supportive comments about the Naghdi/Ball performance and an explanation from JM as to why those debuts were not covered in the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) That was a nice explanation from JM, and her review was quite balanced as well. She gave praise without going too over the top. I find it interesting that the people on here who saw both Naghdi and Hayward found the latter's debut less....impressive? Not as moving? Not quite sure how to phrase it, but definitely it seems most people on here preferred Naghdi. Edited to add I am slightly surprised to see that she included Cojocaru in the list of Great Juliets. While I enjoyed Cojocaru's performance, it wasn't my favourite. Edited October 27, 2015 by Fonty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Edited to add I am slightly surprised to see that she included Cojocaru in the list of Great Juliets. While I enjoyed Cojocaru's performance, it wasn't my favourite. At her age, how could she have seen that many? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billboyd Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 Steven, Iana - and the whole company - were on fire tonight! Great stuff! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanartus Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Glad to know - am a big fan of Salenko and she's received some unfair jingoistic stick from some forum members, so hurrah! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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