RB - Romeo and Juliet, Autumn 2015

[Sim]

I was also there, Jillykins, and it was wonderful to see Lauren as Juliet once again. I have seen most of her Juliets since her debut, and it has been a real pleasure to see how she has developed her characterisation of this role over the years. Technically, she is dancing her better than ever.

[Jamesrhblack]

There's a very positive review of the Ball / Naghdi cast in today's Sunday Times.

[WoodlandGladeFairy]

Went to see Lauren Cuthbertson and Federico Bonelli in 'Romeo and Juliet' on Saturday evening at the Royal Opera House and it was an amazing and emotional evening of dance, Kevin O'Hare before the performance started read out a tribute to David Drew who had passed away on Oct 16th. 

 

There was a wonderful sense of abandonment and intensity to Lauren's dance and performance as Juliet, really made you believe she was a young in love teenager, Federico Bonelli was equally good as a dreamy Romeo and both performance wonderfully together. The Balcony PDD was just beautiful, soaring even. And at the end when Juliet and Romeo take their lives was just emotional, gut wrenching even.

 

Bennett Gartside made for an excellency thuggish Tybal. Special mention goes to the Tybalt death scene as well, so moving and grief stricken, which is odd as Tybalt is like the baddie but Genesia Rosato as Lady Capulet, the way she portrayed the grief was so powerful combined with the music brought a tear to my eye.

 

Afterwards I felt like emotionally wrought, had to sit down for a hour and process it all, left a really powerful imprint on me. 

 

It was wonderful to finally see one of my favourite ballets in it's home, and very glad I went, the view from our seats was excellent too, got to see practically all the action. 

[ChrisG]

Living up in the North West, I find matinees are the easiest Royal Ballet performances to get to - two hours down on the train, a bite to eat, the ballet, two hours up on the train and back in time for tea. Sometimes though, I find that there's an evening performance that leaps out at me and tells me I have to brave a London hotel and stay over to see it. When the cast lists came out for this season tonight's performance, Francesca Hayward's debut as Juliet in what is probably my favourite 3 act ballet, was one such.

 

So I had one thought going in - would she shine? Would she ever!  I was transfixed by her performance from beginning to end.  I can't describe it technically in ballet terms as I don't have the language, but emotionally she made us believe that she was a shy teenager falling suddenly but deeply in love.  She simply was 'Juliet', no more and no less, which is all we should ask a good actor to do.  The Act 1 pas de deux stood out especially and led to a spontaneous roar from the audience at the end of the act, which I'm guessing doesn't always happen!  I've seen Matthew Golding several times before and I would agree he's not the world's best actor, but it seemed to me tonight that one of his big strengths is that he is a more than sympathetic partner and the applause was as much for him as for Francesca. From the front row of the amphitheatre it was difficult to see the detail of her acting in the last act and there was just a suggestion from back there that there is more to come from her in that act as she matures and has more real life experience to call on.  Even here though, her final duet with Sander Blommaert's Paris was full of subtlety and nuance. To my eyes at least, therefore, a stunning debut from Francesca, as shown by a veritable flowerfest at the final curtain! Now I definitely want to see her Manon.

 

The rest of the cast performed strongly and I was particularly struck by the rapport between Golding, Marcelino Sambe as Mercurio and Nicol Edmonds as Benvolio, definitely three lads out for a good time (at least at the start!). Up in my amphitheatre eyrie the structure and patterns of the crowd scenes were more obvious than they've seemed from my previous Covent Garden R&J and from viewing DVDs, though I guess that's true for most ballets viewed from up there!

Edited October 23, 2015 by ChrisG

[SPD444]

Just home after Francesca's debut? as Juliet. I am not knowledgeable enough to give a critic of her performance but, for me, it was just wonderful, with Matthew partnering her so well. There is a magic about this girl, you just have to watch her. Great ovation at the end. She is going to be huge, come on RB nurture this talent. Can't wait for what's next. Loved tonight, fantastic.

[Billyelliott]

On the train home from watching Francesa Hayward's debut tonight - wonderful , amazing - such a talent !

[Mary]

 

. From the front row of the amphitheatre it was difficult to see the detail of her acting in the last act and there was just a suggestion from back there that there is more to come from her in that act as she matures and has more real life experience to call on. 

 

 

 

I fervently hope she is never able to call on that sort of real life experience!

 

Wish I had seen her, thanks for the reviews!

[Mary]

Sorry the above post was quoting ChrisG but once again I have messed up my quote...apologies.

[penelopesimpson]

Great posts and so envious that I did not see Francesca Hayward's debut.  Big mistake in my ticket choice.  Sounds fabulous and good to read such nice reviews of Matthew Golding.

[Bluebird]

 From the front row of the amphitheatre it was difficult to see the detail of her acting in the last act 

 

I was also in the amphitheatre but, with powerful binoculars, I was able to see Francesca's  nuanced and finely detailed acting.  Suffice it to say that, despite the fact that I've seen this production on countless occasions, she made me feel I was seeing the last act for the very first time. As you say, ChrisG, a stunning debut.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Bluebird

[missjane]

I couldn't agree more with the glowing comments about Francesca Hayward last night (and all the similar comments about Yasmine Nagdhi and Matthew Ball a few weeks ago).  

 

I am really glad that I chose these two performances to see (difficult though it was to forgo Lauren as Juliet).  I will remember both for a long time and hope that the management at the RB is sensible enough to ensure we see much more of these artists in years to come. 

 

The haunting beauty of Francesca's dancing last night was the most memorable part for me.  Matthew Golding partnered her beautifully and gave a very convincing performance of his own while the supporting cast was also very impressive.  Well done everyone - the deafening audience reception and many many flowers at the end were more than deserved.  

[Sim]

I seem to be the odd one out here.  I thought Francesca's debut was wonderful in many ways, but it didn't move me.  It didn't make me feel anything much at the end except 'here is a wonderful dancer with great potential'....which was enough for me for a debut.  She did a great acting job, but didn't totally and naturally inhabit Juliet.  I also just didn't believe in her total love for Romeo, nor that she was blown away by the strength of her feelings, both physical and emotional.  In Act 1, someone next to me said that she was more Manon than Juliet, and  could see what they meant.  She was too flirtatious, too teasing for a young girl who has had such a sheltered upbringing.  Her Act 3 was very well done, but again, it didn't convince me that it was from somewhere really deep within.  It was very telling that when the curtain rose at the end of the ballet, she was smiling and looked like she had just cracked a joke with someone.  I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but there was no sign of the complete exhaustion and emotional drainage that I saw in Lauren, Yasmine, Alina, Tamara and others.  It was as if as soon as the curtain came down, she switched it all off.  Interesting.  

 

I thought that Golding danced beautifully and was a wonderful partner, but dramatically he didn't come into his own until the tomb scene, where he was so convincingly ardent in his devastation that he died too quickly and there was an awkward length of time where the music continued and nothing was happening onstage until the music told Juliet she could start to wake up!  I didn't quite like the height difference between them, and he did look much older than Romeo is supposed to be in comparison with Juliet.  Nor did I feel any real chemistry between them.  I would have loved to have seen her with Alexander Campbell as Romeo;  maybe next run!  

 

From what I saw last night, Hayward will grow into a wonderful Juliet with a bit more experience of dramatic ballets.  I absolutely loved her Manon, and I was imagining her as a fantastic Mary Vetsera as well.  She could, and will, be a MacMillan interpreter par excellence.  

[penelopesimpson]

I seem to be the odd one out here.  I thought Francesca's debut was wonderful in many ways, but it didn't move me.  It didn't make me feel anything much at the end except 'here is a wonderful dancer with great potential'....which was enough for me for a debut.  She did a great acting job, but didn't totally and naturally inhabit Juliet.  I also just didn't believe in her total love for Romeo, nor that she was blown away by the strength of her feelings, both physical and emotional.  In Act 1, someone next to me said that she was more Manon than Juliet, and  could see what they meant.  She was too flirtatious, too teasing for a young girl who has had such a sheltered upbringing.  Her Act 3 was very well done, but again, it didn't convince me that it was from somewhere really deep within.  It was very telling that when the curtain rose at the end of the ballet, she was smiling and looked like she had just cracked a joke with someone.  I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but there was no sign of the complete exhaustion and emotional drainage that I saw in Lauren, Yasmine, Alina, Tamara and others.  It was as if as soon as the curtain came down, she switched it all off.  Interesting.  

 

I thought that Golding danced beautifully and was a wonderful partner, but dramatically he didn't come into his own until the tomb scene, where he was so convincingly ardent in his devastation that he died too quickly and there was an awkward length of time where the music continued and nothing was happening onstage until the music told Juliet she could start to wake up!  I didn't quite like the height difference between them, and he did look much older than Romeo is supposed to be in comparison with Juliet.  Nor did I feel any real chemistry between them.  I would have loved to have seen her with Alexander Campbell as Romeo;  maybe next run!  

 

From what I saw last night, Hayward will grow into a wonderful Juliet with a bit more experience of dramatic ballets.  I absolutely loved her Manon, and I was imagining her as a fantastic Mary Vetsera as well.  She could, and will, be a MacMillan interpreter par excellence.  

So enjoyed your informative review, Sim.  I wasn't lucky enough to go but you have given me a wonderful picture.  Yes, I too would like to see her with a young partner and Campbell would be perfect.  That is not to detract from Matthew Golding, just that a Juliet with really young Principals would have a special dramatic piquancy.

[Nina G.]

I seem to be the odd one out here.  I thought Francesca's debut was wonderful in many ways, but it didn't move me.  It didn't make me feel anything much at the end except 'here is a wonderful dancer with great potential'....which was enough for me for a debut.  She did a great acting job, but didn't totally and naturally inhabit Juliet.  I also just didn't believe in her total love for Romeo, nor that she was blown away by the strength of her feelings, both physical and emotional.  In Act 1, someone next to me said that she was more Manon than Juliet, and  could see what they meant.  She was too flirtatious, too teasing for a young girl who has had such a sheltered upbringing.  Her Act 3 was very well done, but again, it didn't convince me that it was from somewhere really deep within.  It was very telling that when the curtain rose at the end of the ballet, she was smiling and looked like she had just cracked a joke with someone.  I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but there was no sign of the complete exhaustion and emotional drainage that I saw in Lauren, Yasmine, Alina, Tamara and others.  It was as if as soon as the curtain came down, she switched it all off.  Interesting.  

 

Glad to read I am not alone. I thought Francesca Hayward was absolutely wonderful as Manon but not as Juliet. She didn't move me, her dancing was lovely, but to me she was not convincing as Juliet. She danced Juliet but she WASN'T Juliet, unlike Naghdi. Hayward didn't have the power to reduce me to tears. I remember feeling absolutely affected after seeing Naghdi's Juliet and I felt so for days afterwards. I missed that feeling of emotional exhaustion too. Naghdi's Juliet was superlative, her intelligent and deeply emotional portrayal will be a hard one to beat!  Hayward clearly needs more time to find herself in this role whilst Naghdi danced Juliet as if she'd danced it before, as if the role of Juliet already belonged to her.

[jmhopton]

Like Chris G I live in the North West so have to make choices as to what evening performances I can see with the extra cost staying in a hotel entails. I missed Francesca's Manon and was determined to see her Juliet and was so glad I did. I thought she made an amazing Juliet and I found her performance very moving indeed. Sitting in the amphi even with binoculars I think I missed nuances of expression and the details you get with the cinema broadcasts but it was great just to be there and revel in the performance and the atmosphere. Matthew too was I thought excellent and though the casting seemed odd to me when it was announced (I too would have loved to see her with Campbell)I thought it worked very well on the night. A few of us waited at the stage door and she and Matthew came out almost together and signed and posed for photos together and were very relaxed and charming. I didn't realise it was Matthew's debut also in the role until he mentioned it. Francesca said she was very appreciative of all the support she could feel she was getting from the audience. it was also nice that several of the dancers who came out before them commented on the night and what a lovely debut it was and how successful it had been. All in all a brilliant evening and hopefully many more to come. Can't wait for Rhapsody!

[alison]

I think that having seen Naghdi/Ball a couple of weeks ago perhaps took some of the shine off this (non-) debut for me.  I didn't get the feeling of any comparable chemistry between the two of them - not surprising, perhaps! - and thought that perhaps some of the supporting cast needed more time to get into their roles as well.  I was sitting in exactly the same seat for both performances, and I seem to remember I put away my opera glasses for Naghdi, so clear was she being, but needed them for Hayward (and *I* didn't have high-powered binoculars, so didn't pick up on all the detail).  Francesca's dancing was beautiful - of course - and incredibly light, but there were a few moments where for me that was all it was, beautiful, and I was expecting it to reveal something about Juliet's feelings as well.  Golding, I agree, came into his own in Act III, although I thought when he started the ballet he was a bit too much "Ballet Prince" for Romeo.  All in all, for me a highly commendable debut(ish), but not on a par with the previous one, and I think it would be unreasonable for me to have expected otherwise.

 

Incidentally, what Romeo & Juliet version do Dutch National Ballet have in their rep?

[Jan McNulty]

DNB performed a version by Rudi Van Dantzig at the Coli in the late 1980s, I don't know if that is the one they have still been using. Looking at the company website Sasha Waltz is doing a new one for them.

[AnneMarriott]

I seem to be the odd one out here.  I thought Francesca's debut was wonderful in many ways, but it didn't move me.  It didn't make me feel anything much at the end except 'here is a wonderful dancer with great potential'....which was enough for me for a debut.  She did a great acting job, but didn't totally and naturally inhabit Juliet...  In Act 1, someone next to me said that she was more Manon than Juliet, and  could see what they meant.  

 

 

  

Glad to read I am not alone. I thought Francesca Hayward was absolutely wonderful as Manon but not as Juliet. She didn't move me, her dancing was lovely, but to me she was not convincing as Juliet.

I share the views expressed above. Having been totally blown away by Hayward's Manon I think I approached R & J with too high expectations. It was a lovely debut and deserved the ovation and profusion of bouquets at curtain call, but it lacked the wow factor for me. However the enthusiasm of the audience around me showed that I was definitely alone in that part of the house! And I must add that for the first time in ages I enjoyed R & J which has suffered from over-familiarity for some years.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed Matthew Golding's performance as Romeo - convincing and beautifully danced. And Thomas Whitehead's Tybalt - I'd like him on my side in a fight but wouldn't want to bump into him on a dark night; just as it should be, I think.

[Vanartus]

I'm teeth-gnashing as I write as I realise I over-relied on my seasonal injections of Osipova (going through serious cold-turkey!) and I woefully underbooked Hayward and Naghdi in R&J. More fool me. I missed Francesca's debuts in both Manon and Rhapsody (will catch up on the latter next year) but your comments confirm what I've always thought, that most dancers are either a Manon or Juliet. A few can do both to exactly or almost the same level of involvement/triumph - Guillem for example - but most lean one way or 'tother. Mary Vetsera is sort of the third card in the MacMillan deck but....sometimes key dancers give it a miss - Guillem for example.

[Fonty]

Was Guillem still with the RB when they started performing it again, Vanartus?  I can't see her in the role of Mary Vetsera myself, but Guillem was one of those dancers who continually surprised me with her ability to dance roles that on paper she seemed unsuited for.

 

I never saw her Juliet, but I did see Leanne Benjamin, who must have been well into her thirties at the time, and was utterly convincing in her portrayal of youth.   It will be interesting to see how the genuine youngsters build on their first performances in this respect. 

[Vanartus]

Ah - now Leanne could do all three!

[Vanartus]

PS apologies if the next comment leans towards the "rumoured at the time", but I'd heard that Mary V was one of the roles that Guillem chose to decline along with the "seductive" sister in My Brother, My Sister, and the lead in Gloria.

[Fonty]

Ah - now Leanne could do all three!

 

Never saw her in Manon, more's the pity, but she was certainly one of my all time favourites in the MacMillan roles.

 

I think Guillem was quite well known for turning down all sorts of roles. 

[ToThePointe]

I find it so interesting to see the differences and similarities in MacMillan's leading heroines. All are strong women who know exactly what they want, and all turn their backs on convention in some way or another. Manon is a beguiling creature who is seduced by money and power and allows herself to risk it all, even love, to experience it, while Mary Vetsera possesses a naivety similar to Juliet;  however, she understands men and she knows how to get Rudolph. Juliet is similar in that she turns her back on her family and the life she is expected to see unfold, choosing instead to follow her heart. She differs, however, because she is much more innocent than the other two and has no experience of men or the outside world for that matter.

 

To see Juliet's journey throughout the ballet and to really believe that her love for Romeo is immediate and overwhelming, I feel that she cannot show any signs of flirtatious behaviour during her scenes with Paris at the beginning of the ballet. I thought Frankie was so wonderful technically, but during her introduction with Paris, she was more Manon than Juliet. I thought to myself 'she knows a bit more than she's letting on!' It all seemed a bit too calculated and too aware for me to be convinced that this was a 14 year old girl meeting a boy for the first time. 

 

 

There are very few ballerinas who can capture the spirit of all MacMillan's 'Ladies';  I'd say in my time (I'm only 24) Alina is the only one to convince me. I do think though, that with a bit more experience, the likes of Naghdi and Hayward could mesmerise as Manon, Mary and Juliet...they have each made one of these roles very special on one performance alone, and I look forward to seeing them both do the other roles in due course.  

[MAB]

I'm afraid I don't see any of those three as 'strong', I see them all as weak and dependent.  They are all victims of the eras in which they were born when not much was on offer, but had they really been strong:-

 

Mary would have left Rudolf before the downward spiral

 

Manon would have dumped loser Des Grieux pensioned off her god-awful brother and made her own way through life.

 

Juliet wouldn't have stabbed herself and gone on to a life with either Paris or in a convent/

 

Strong women survive - they don't finish up dead.

[ToThePointe]

I completely disagree MAB. All three of these women turn their back on convention in one form or another. I see Juliet's decision to marry Paris and live a normal, and probably boring life, definitely the weaker decision. She puts her love for Romeo before everything else. She is willing to fight against her brutal father and take independent steps as a woman, which would never happen during those days. Her contemporaries would have remained silent and docile, would have married whoever they were told to and stay silenced to their man during their married life. Juliet is saying, 'I don't think so, I'm not going to live the rest of my life as Paris's silent partner. Instead I'm going to risk it all to fall in love.' If that isn't strong, I'm not too sure what is. It's also all in the choreography. During the ballroom act when Lord Capulet leads the dance, all of the subdued women end the dance kneeling on the floor with their male partners towering over them and pointing fingers down at their faces. MacMillan is telling us that these women don't have a choice, making Juliet unique in her defiant decision to love a Montague. 

 

I think dying for love, putting love above all else and turning your back on what has been decided for you by convention is absolutely a sign of strength!

[MAB]

 

I think dying for love, putting love above all else and turning your back on what has been decided for you by convention is absolutely a sign of strength!

 

I'm sorry but I find that statement patently absurd.

 

Frankly those are the sentiments of half the women in refuges, the ones that suffer beating after beating and refuse to press charges because 'I love him'.

 

I think you would benefit from reading up about the lives of women in renaissance Italy, a period that produced female painters, poets and composers, although it was a patriarchal society it wasn't that bleak. 

 

Romeo and Juliet is one of Shakespeare's early plays and although the prose is ravishing, it's not one of his plays that gives us pause for thought such as Hamlet or King Lear.  The theme of overwhelming love has appealed to other artists such as Berlioz and Tchaikovsly as well as Prokofiev, but in this modern age we ask questions, such as how old is Romeo?  Shakespeare doesn't tell us that does he, but he does tell us that Juliet is thirteen. 

 

The theatre is all about the suspension of disbelief and we happily leave logic and critical faculties outside the door but if we saw a more accurate depiction of R&J with a child as Juliet would we not be uneasy watching a child kill herself on stage?  And by the way how can Juliet be a strong woman at all when she's actually a child.

[Fonty]

Well, I am not sure I agree with the idea that Juliet is a child, she is a very young woman.  I've never been quite comfortable with the way in which some dancers play the scene with the doll, as if it is a normal everyday occurence for her to play with her dollies.  At a fortnight shy of her 14th birthday, she surely wouldn't still be doing that, even in Shakespeare's day? 

 

I prefer the way many of my favourites use the doll simply as the first thing that comes to hand to tease the nurse with.  The fact that it is a child's toy shows her childhood is not too far away.  But if she is portrayed as too young and childish, the scenes with Paris become slightly uncomfortable, as if he is a bit of a pervert, attracted to very young girls.  It also makes the scenes with Romeo less believable.  She has to be seen as a girl who is the right age to experience her first adult love, so that when the thunderbolt strikes as she looks at Romeo, we can all think, "Yes, I remember that feeling when I was a teenager!"

 

I think Juliet is a strong female.  She drives the action, plans the marriage, sets it in motion, and Romeo gets swept along with it in the heat of the moment and the circumstances that surround it.  She is the one who has to take the potion, after all, not Romeo, and that takes strength and courage.  

 

 

I'm afraid I don't see any of those three as 'strong', I see them all as weak and dependent.  They are all victims of the eras in which they were born when not much was on offer, but had they really been strong:-

 

Mary would have left Rudolf before the downward spiral

 

Manon would have dumped loser Des Grieux pensioned off her god-awful brother and made her own way through life.

 

Juliet wouldn't have stabbed herself and gone on to a life with either Paris or in a convent/

 

Strong women survive - they don't finish up dead.

 

I don't think it shows that Juliet is weak because she chooses suicide.  It simply shows how young she is, and how it all overwhelms her to the extent that she feels she just can't go on living.

 

Although having said that, I am not sure how many women of any age would cope with waking up in a tomb, surrounded by corpses including that of her adored, newly wedded husband.  It would a very cold fish indeed who simple shrugged it off and sauntered off to marry someone else!

Edited October 25, 2015 by Fonty

[ToThePointe]

 

Frankly those are the sentiments of half the women in refuges, the ones that suffer beating after beating and refuse to press charges because 'I love him'.

 

I think you would benefit from reading up about the lives of women in renaissance Italy, a period that produced female painters, poets and composers, although it was a patriarchal society it wasn't that bleak. 

 

 

 

I completely agree, however, Juliet isn't the subject of abuse from the man she loves. My point is that it takes courage and strength, during a period in history where women had zero choice or say in marriage, to, as Fonty says, put the plan in motion. Let's not forget that a lot of the play/ballet is also about sex, something which empowers and provides strength for women. Juliet makes the marriage to Romeo happen, mainly so that they can sleep together. A girl of 14 in Renaissane Italy choosing to marry a man she loves, from a rival family, so that she can be sexually intimate with him in her parents house isn't strong? Or at least defying what is expected of her at this point in history?

 

I don't think there is much reading that I have to do to be honest. Yes women succeeded during this time creatively and intellectually, but stepping away from convention certainly was not the norm. Very few women took that risk. Those that did can only be called strong and a character such as Juliet who does risk it all and at such a young age surely possesses some strength. 

 

 

I'm sorry but I find that statement patently absurd.

 

MAB, I don't appreciate my point being called 'absurd'. This Forum celebrates difference of opinion, all of which are valid. We disagree here and we will agree on other things. I'm fascinated to hear your opinions but I wouldn't dream of ever denouncing them, especially not on a Forum. 

[Sim]

MAB, the three women who ToThePointe is discussing are not victims of abuse.  All three are loved by their men and are in no way abused by them.  Juliet, Manon and Mary all take the decision to die (or in Manon's case take a big risk which leads to her death) with their men because they don't want to live without them.  Why?  Because they love them and are loved and respected in return....in even Rudolf and Mary's weird way.    To even suggest that TTP is in any way denigrating victims of abuse is totally out of order.

[MAB]

I completely agree, however, Juliet isn't the subject of abuse from the man she loves. My point is that it takes courage and strength, during a period in history where women had zero choice or say in marriage, to, as Fonty says, put the plan in motion. Let's not forget that a lot of the play/ballet is also about sex, something which empowers and provides strength for women. Juliet makes the marriage to Romeo happen, mainly so that they can sleep together. A girl of 14 in Renaissane Italy choosing to marry a man she loves, from a rival family, so that she can be sexually intimate with him in her parents house isn't strong? Or at least defying what is expected of her at this point in history?

 

 

 

 

Hormonal, stroppy teenager then, yes, very much Seymour's stock in trade I seem to remember, and certainly a valid interpretation.

 

I'm genuinely sorry if I upset you, I've just realized how very young you are, I realize now you belong to a generation that is perhaps not as aware of sexual politics as earlier ones.

 

Personally I have a very thick skin, please disagree with me and cross swords as often as you like.

 

best wishes

 

Mary B.

 

edited for typo

Edited October 25, 2015 by MAB

[MAB]

MAB, the three women who ToThePointe is discussing are not victims of abuse.  All three are loved by their men and are in no way abused by them.  Juliet, Manon and Mary all take the decision to die (or in Manon's case take a big risk which leads to her death) with their men because they don't want to live without them.  Why?  Because they love them and are loved and respected in return....in even Rudolf and Mary's weird way.    To even suggest that TTP is in any way denigrating victims of abuse is totally out of order.

 

I was not suggesting those in my view rather sad ballet heroines are victims of abuse, please do not twist my words. I merely strongly disagreed that those three could never be accurately described as 'strong'.

 

My comment about abuse was a response to a later post.

[ToThePointe]

I'm genuinely sorry if I upset you, I've just realized how very young you are, I realize now you belong to a generation that is perhaps not as aware of sexual politics as earlier ones.

 

Personally I have a very thick skin, please disagree with me and cross swords as often as you like.

 

My father's a scouser and my mother a New Yorker, believe me my skin is leathered and it takes a lot to offend me! I picked up on your comment mainly because I know that a lot of people are often too shy to post on here because they are afraid that they could face comments such as that.

 

I would never want to be treated any differently because of my age though and actually it's very interesting that our difference in opinion could also be a generational thing!

 

On a slightly different note, which female figures in ballet do you, or anyone else here, think of as strong? I guess Odette sacrifices herself to save her swan mates - a pretty big sign of strength no?