RB - Romeo and Juliet, Autumn 2015

[billboyd]

People have asked the valid question 'why does the RB have to bring in someone from outside the company to dance with McRae?

 

 

And the person best placed to answer this question is Kevin O'Hare.

[Sim]

And in the absence of any answer, it is people's prerogative to wonder.  There are many possible reasons, and it is interesting to ponder them.  People who part with a lot of money to see the company, and who have been supporting it for many years, have the right to a discussion as to how it works.

[billboyd]

But, if people want an answer (to any question) it seems totally logical to ask someone who has the answer.

 

In this case Kevin O'Hare. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by billboyd

[Sim]

Gee Bill, what an original suggestion.  Maybe people have asked and have not received a definite answer.  Perhaps you could get one from him on our behalf?

[billboyd]

Sim - I am not asking  the question.  Those who are looking for an answer need to ask Kevin O'Hare - the man with the answer.

 

Let me again suggest that those who are looking for an answer to this question ask Kevin O'Hare.

[alison]

And the person best placed to answer this question is Kevin O'Hare.

 

 

But, if people want an answer (to any question) it seems totally logical to ask someone who has the answer.

 

In this case Kevin O'Hare. 

 

 

Sim - I am not asking  the question.  Those who are looking for an answer need to ask Kevin O'Hare - the man with the answer.

 

Let me again suggest that those who are looking for an answer to this question ask Kevin O'Hare.

 

Bill, on behalf of EVERYBODY, can I refer you to post 424 above?

[billboyd]

424 - You've lost me Alison.

[Jan McNulty]

Bill, I find your stock response of 'ask / enquire of / complain to Kevin O'Hare' to legitimate questions and discussions quite tiresome and unproductive. What is the point of this forum if members can't express their opinions, ask questions and, within reasonable limits, speculate about matters pertaining to the ballet companies?

 

 

Well said, Aileen.  It is irritating and offputting.   This is a discussion website.  Reminds me of Liaison Dangereuse 'It's beyond my control!'

 

 

Bill, I hate to be blunt, but as has already been pointed out, this is a discussion forum.  Many people have reasonably explained why they are discussing the issue of guest artists with the RB.  Post #424 is Penelope's as quoted above.

 

If you think Mr O'Hare would make a statement on why he is using guest artists I would be very grateful if you will approach him for that statement and put us all in the know.

 

Not necessarily on this board but many of my friends often speculate about castings and promotions and any other item of the day to day minutiae of the companies that we follow.  I think, given our joint passion, that is is quite a legitimate subject for discussion.

[billboyd]

Thanks, Janet. I will not respond as it is quite clear that I do not see things as several others do.  

[John Mallinson]

This thread is supposed to be about Romeo and Juliet performances, not about Royal Ballet casting policy. Lets get it back on course.

[billboyd]

Absolutely!   Couldn't agree more!   Hear hear!

[Sunrise]

Simply that some dancers are terrific together, but do not quite gel with others, however talented the individuals might be.  I for one would be only too glad to see special partnerships developing, and cannot see anything wrong with two people who are obviously suited by physique and temperament being allowed to dance the bulk of their performances together.  

 

I agree with this. McRae's explains in the Independent article of the close connection he feels with Salenko, and I think that it he feels so strongly about a partnership with her then a partnership should be nurtured. It must be quite unusual to feel they've found the perfect partner in terms of physique, temperament and chemistry, for them and for the audience. I feel since Cojocaru/Kobborg, Rojo/Acosta, Guillem Cope, and so on, there haven't been any rock solid partnerships that have developed. Having lost Rojo, Cojocaru, Galeazzi, Benjamin in recent years, I think bringing in Osipova on a full time basis and Salenko on a part-time basis is not that unreasonable. Having said that, I am sympathetic to the fact that it means there are fewer opportunities for home grown dancers. But if they aren't being given specific principal roles then maybe O'Hare doesn't think they are ready just yet? Or maybe having cast some of the up and comers in principal roles and seen how well they've done, we can expect them to be cast in more ballets in the next round of casting decisions.

[Sunrise]

This thread is supposed to be about Romeo and Juliet performances, not about Royal Ballet casting policy. Lets get it back on course.

 

Sorry, read this a little late, will do!

[alison]

This thread is supposed to be about Romeo and Juliet performances, not about Royal Ballet casting policy. Lets get it back on course.

 

I do sometimes miss the old forum software, where we used to be able to digress down one "branch" of the discussion tree while not derailing the main course of the thread   I get the impression from comments Bruce made way back when that people don't make software like that any more.

 

Anyway, back on track, as you say, John.

[Fonty]

This thread is supposed to be about Romeo and Juliet performances, not about Royal Ballet casting policy. Lets get it back on course.

 

Well, the trouble is that not everyone can go and see the performances!  So we are going to pick up on other aspects of the various comments being made. 

[Jan McNulty]

Well, the trouble is that not everyone can go and see the performances!  So we are going to pick up on other aspects of the various comments being made. 

 

Which could be discussed in a separate thread...

[annamk]

I didn't enjoy Romeo & Juliet at all last night largely I think because of the way it was cast. I don't have a problem with Matthew Golding as Romeo but I do think he has a tricky look to make himself convincing in the part so it's particularly crucial he's well matched with his Juliet. The physical differences between Golding and Hayward seemed amplified by their being together: she looked younger, smaller and slighter and he looked older, taller and broader. It just didn't make for a convincing pairing & probably as a consequence I felt it was an exercise in dancing the steps and making the gestures, but there was no chemistry between them. Unfortunately the casting problems extended to Sambe's Mercutio who looked like someone's little brother next to Golding and Edmonds and maybe that size difference partly explained why the masks pdt was the sloppiest I've seen for a long time. I left at the interval.

[alison]

Hang on, Hayward had *2* public performances?  How did I miss that?!

[Sim]

Yes...last night and last week. 

[RuthE]

Last night and two weeks ago, in fact - her debut was 23rd October.

 

I saw both and although I generally agree with annamk about the mismatch, I thought they gelled as a couple more last night than in their debut performance.  I also thought the fighting in Act 2 really caught fire last night in a way that it didn't at this cast's previous performance - Golding really pulled it out of the bag and I'm slightly haunted this morning by the look of sheer resigned dread on Thomas Whitehead's face in the moment between Romeo disarming him and stabbing him.  And what a death scene from Marcelino Sambe...

[Sim]

Ooops, sorry.  Time passes so quickly....

[pasdedeux]

Same mixed opinions on last night's performance. I agree on the physical incompatibility between Golding and Hayward; it was particularly evident in the balcony pdd where some of the partnering was awkward and was only saved by the fact that Golding is, in general, a very sensitive and responsive partner. You can see that he did his best to overcome the physical difficulty. However, it did mean that many of the lines and lifts were somewhat distorted. 

 

I was surprised to learn that both Hayward and Golding debuted in Macmillan's production this run, which probably accounts for some of the tentativeness. Hayward was sweet but too arch and not quite a luminescent Juliet in the way that Nagdhi was. I very much felt that she wished to maintain a modicum of control over every aspect performance, thus everything was very clean and neatly executed but lacking the exhilaration that dancing on the knife's edge brings. Juliet is a technically easy principal role; I wished she could have considered her emotional portrayal further.

 

Mercutio always receives great applause but I agree that Sambe was out of place next to the bigger Golding and Edmonds. The mask pdt was indeed uncomfortable to watch. I also thought the sword fight was taken slightly too fast - a theme recurrent through an evening where the rhythm was ragged and no-one (aside from the ever fantastic Gary Avis) seemed to truly settle on stage. An interesting night, but not superlative by any measure.

[FLOSS]

I know that Naghdi and Ball did very well at their official debut,assisted by the fact that they are suited in size; seem to hear the music in the same way and had given evidence of their compatibility as a partnership. Their performance was no doubt also much improved by the fact that they had two performances before their public matinee.

 

I think that last night was one of those occasions on which you see the wisdom of giving debutants in these roles an experienced partner. If their partners had been chosen with greater care, Hayward at least might have made more of an impact as Juliet. If you are worrying about technical problems you don't have that much time to  do the other things that this ballet calls for. It was after all created on two great dance actors and while it can be performed as pure dance very effectively it works better as dance drama. Even as pure dance you do need to feel that Romeo cares about Juliet.The problem is that if you don't care about Romeo and Juliet and there is no empathy between them the ballet ends in their deaths but it is not tragic.

 

Romeo is a demanding role as it requires acting and partnering skills,the ability to dance the steps in unison with others and real stamina and while Juliet is not as technically demanding it requires acting skills and someone to respond to what Juliet is doing if the dancer is to make a real impact in the role. It needs both partners to be the characters that they are dancing rather than performing their roles and merely reproducing steps.For too much of the time I felt that I was seeing Juliet rather than Romeo and Juliet.As the ballet progressed I began to think that perhaps part of the trouble for Golding is that this ballet was made on dancers who were still essentially Ashton dancers capable of performing neat fast footwork which you only begin to notice when a dancer is experiencing some difficulties with it.Golding had similar problems with Oberon,

 

That neither dancer really let go is I suspect a subtle combination of inexperience in the roles, height difference, different  musicality and differing abilities to dance at speed. The balcony pas de deux should be danced as a headlong rush it was all too slow and careful last night.You couldn't accuse Golding of putting a foot wrong but it was all rather dull and dutiful.It picked up a bit after the last interval but by then it was too late.

 

I thought that Sambe was rather good as Mercutio he did the off centre turns which so many Mercutio's skip as optional extras not realising that they are an essential way of expressing his character. The height difference did not worry me as much as it seems to have worried others.The original Mercutio was rather short too.The ragged nature of the mask pas de trois was I think attributable to the fact that fast foot work does not seem to be Golding's forte. The only thing that did not seem right to me in Sambe's performance was the way that he used his hands which seemed a bit different from everyone else who I have seen in the role.

Edited November 6, 2015 by FLOSS

[bridiem]

I thought Hayward was terrific - every movement and gesture invested with meaning in a very personal, intelligent and moving way, making me see things I hadn't seen before even though I've seen the ballet so many times. But I thought she was fighting an uphill battle because although Golding does absolutely everything that is asked of him, I never forgot that he was a dancer dancing a role - he never became Romeo. And so Hayward had to do it alone, so to speak. They are as others have noted also physically not well matched. And in terms of chemistry, I thought Juliet and Paris were very touching together in the early scenes and appeared far better matched than Juliet and Romeo!! NOT quite the intention, I suspect. So an unbalanced evening, but very exciting for me because of Hayward's performance.

 

Sadly I didn't see Naghdi and Ball, but hope to have the opportunity to do so in the future.

[alison]

Once again, I would be fascinated to know where people were sitting (and if applicable how powerful their binoculars were!) and how this affected their appreciation of performances.  I've e.g. seen someone raving about, say, Dancer A's acting, and someone else saying they found him/her difficult to read, and it's turned out, perhaps, that the former was down in the stalls and the latter in the amphi.  Certainly I've learned to take critics' assessments of fine detail with ... not exactly a pinch of salt, but I certainly flag them as "this person was sitting in the stalls/stalls circle, and I'm not".

[Fonty]

They are as others have noted also physically not well matched. And in terms of chemistry, I thought Juliet and Paris were very touching together in the early scenes and appeared far better matched than Juliet and Romeo!! NOT quite the intention, I suspect. So an unbalanced evening, but very exciting for me because of Hayward's performance.

 

 

 

Well, we're back to casting decisions again.  It is difficult to talk about any ballet, whether or not you have seen this particular run, without broadening the discussion a little to include these issues in general terms. 

 

Yes, I could start a new thread.  This has been done before, with other topics that have been deemed to be slightly off topic.    But without a specific ballet, and particular performances to refer to, the conversation tends to stutter to a halt after a couple of posts.  

Edited November 6, 2015 by Fonty

[Nina G.]

Alison, last night I sat in the Orchestra Stalls and I've now seen Hayward/Golding and Naghdi/Ball. Still Nunez to go!

I agree with above posters: Hayward being partnered with Golding certainly didn't do her a favour and Golding danced Romeo but never was Romeo.

 

The darlings of this run of R&J for me were Ball and Naghdi. There was a big difference between these two Juliet's too. As much as I liked Hayward's Manon she did't cut it as Juliet for me compared to Naghdi who gave a deep emotional and intellectual portrayal of Juliet. Hayward was all pretty dancing (as she does) but I missed the psychological/emotional portrayal in her interpretation. Hayward's Juliet simply did not leave a mark on me as Naghdi's did and I continue to lament the fact that they were only given one public performance. 

[FLOSS]

I wonder how much of an impact anyone can make if, for whatever reason, there is little or no rapport between dancers whose fictional relationship is at the centre of a ballet ? Naghdi might not have made such an impact as Juliet if she had danced with another partner.Hayward might have been more effective if she had danced with  someone else. We won't know whether Juliet is Hayward's role until she has the opportunity to dance it with another partner.Naghdi may have struck it lucky by being given her first big break with Matthew Ball. It is more likely that this pairing was initially the result of decisions made by those responsible for casting Onegin than careful planning by management.It was good that management saw fit to maintain it for Romeo and Juliet but will it be allowed to continue? Generally management doesn't seem very keen on creating and maintaining regular partnerships. It seems oblivious to the lack of rapport between members of some of the casts that it has chosen and to be quite happy with compromise casting and odd pairings when they could and should be avoided. 

 

It was interesting that when the Royal Ballet went to Moscow last year the critics there commented on the lack of rapport between the various dancers cast as Manon and De Grieux.My recollection is that the pairings seemed directed more towards displaying the company's stars and recent acquisitions  than showing the company at its best. But of course audiences expect to see a company's stars and the dancers of whom it has heard.

 

While I can understand that there may be problems with regular partnerships the truth is that partnerships are greater than the sum of their parts if only because of the certainty,trust and security that comes from performing with the same person on a regular basis. It would be nice to think that the  Naghdi,Ball pairing will be seen regularly in other ballet's but I hold no great hopes that this will be the case.. 

Edited November 6, 2015 by FLOSS

[Nina G.]

Oh there I don't I agree with you Floss. My deep appreciation of Naghdi's interpretation is totally independent of the fact that she was partnered with Ball.  Naghdi's Juliet could stand on its own, no matter who was/is her partner! Of course the two looked great together and that was a bonus but it was in scenes such as when Juliet is alone with her parents, when she is with Paris, when she sits alone on the edge of the bed, when she screams in the tomb next to her death Romeo,...that the true depth of her interpretation became very visible, 

[bridiem]

I do think it's possible for one half of a pairing to make an impact independently, but I think that's easier or more likely to happen with a mature dancer than with a young one. Of course the greatest impact can only happen when the partnership 'works', which sometimes happens for fairly obvious reasons but sometimes is unexpected/indefinable. And, of course, sometimes depends on the beholder - I haven't always especially liked partnerships that others have loved (eg Rojo/Acosta - for me, Rojo/Cope was the one). It does as if Naghdi/Ball has been a huge success so I do hope they are allowed to develop together.

[Fonty]

 And, of course, sometimes depends on the beholder - I haven't always especially liked partnerships that others have loved (eg Rojo/Acosta - for me, Rojo/Cope was the one). It does as if Naghdi/Ball has been a huge success so I do hope they are allowed to develop together.

 

I agree with you.  Rojo was a dancer whose strong dramatic skills made her shine, no matter who she was dancing with.  But her partnership with Cope was very special, and I preferred that to the one with Acosta. 

[FLOSS]

I did not mean to imply that I think that Naghdi's success as Juliet was dependent on being partnered by Ball merely that she had less of an uphill struggle than Hayward did.Ball's performance gave Naghdi someone to play off and enhanced and supported her interpretation. I thought that Hayward was left to do it virtually on her own as for me Golding was a strong young man who reproduced steps but didn't give me any idea who Romeo was or why anyone,including Juliet, should care about him. 

 

I agree that you can admire an individual actor's,singer's or dancer's performance even if those about them are not delivering the goods and it is relatively easy to do so in a ballet if it is a technical display piece. I think that it is more difficult when you are watching a story ballet where you need to believe at some level in the relationships and the story being unfolded in front of you.It should be a collective agreement to go on the  narrative journey made between cast and audience.It is a bit difficult if one of the key participants is unwilling or unable to engage in the collective narrative. I would have found the same difficulty if it had been a performance of the play. How do you judge the quality of a performance of Rosalind who apparently has no Orlando or a Juliet whose Romeo seems to have his mind on other things such as getting his car fixed?

[RK Martin]

I agree with bridiem and was deeply moved by Francesca Hayward's performance on Thursday- even more than her debut.

 

I find her dancing sublime and her dramatic interpretation on Thursday night was full of intelligence , feeling and sensitivity and as bridiem also suggested , with touches I had not previously been affected by . She seems to have a knowledge of the original text and understands the importance of stillness , which she used well, including in the moment of "prayer" before she takes the potion.

 

Also memorable last night was the moment she clasps Romeos hand to her heart - a moment of bliss, ecstasy, joy , a sudden understanding of what true love feels like and the excitement of it - and in addition , her confusion at waking in the tomb.

 

As for Marcelino Sambe, he gave his all as Mercutio and yet so naturally - his dancing , his acting, every move and nuance. He seems to me to be a "class act" , standing out in everything he does . Luca Acri and the whole cast were wonderful too as was the orchestra , notably the brass section . So much owed too to Prokofiev's wonderful score.

 

It was a fabulous evening . What was missing , for me as others have said , was a Romeo to match- one that I could believe Juliet might fall in love with in favour of Paris. One whose kiss (after another wonderful moment of stillness ) didn't look (to me) almost lecherous!

 

How wonderful that Francesca Hayward , Yasmine Naghdi and Matthew Ball have been given such an opportunity at this point in their careers. The future looks exciting - for them and for us!