ROYAL BALLET AND OPERA - new name for Royal Opera House

[FionaM]

Re new logi

 

its modern and dyslexic friendly, being sans serif.  It will also stand out on large posters and flags.  
 

I also quite like the quirky ‘&’ and the elongated R in Royal.   They add creativity

[Fonty]

Well, I shall continue to say ROH or Covent Garden.  It is just so much easier to refer to the Royal Opera House, rather than the Royal Ballet and Opera House.  I am curious.  Who are the people who thought ballet was performed somewhere else?  The people "who should have known better" according to Mr O'Hare?  Please, please tell me they are NOT working for ACE.  Although, from what I have heard of that organisation, nothing would surprise me.  I am not sure if I read it on this forum or somewhere else, but there was an article about a noted classical orchestra receiving a visit from a representative of ACE with regard to funding.  I can't remember it exactly, but the gist of it was that while they were playing, let's say, a violin concerto, the rep was looking bored and fiddling with their phone.  Then they asked a question along the lines of "Do you play anything a bit more modern that doesn't involve violins?"  

 

Edited to add I have used ACE for the Arts Council, because people seem to use it on here all the time, but is that its official acronym? When I did a quick search I got several other organisations, but none for Arts Council England.  

 

 

Edited May 1 by Fonty

[bangorballetboy]

3 minutes ago, Fonty said:

Well, I shall continue to say ROH or Covent Garden.  It is just so much easier to refer to the Royal Opera House, rather than the Royal Ballet and Opera House. 

 

I don't think there's any suggestion that the building name is changing.  The rebranding relates to the name of the umbrella organisation that is based in that building (and which covers The Royal Opera, The Royal Ballet and the orchestra, amongst other things), isn't it?

[MAB]

Referring back to Paco's post, I imagine fewer opera performances during the pandemic were down to Covid restrictions.  I had to jump through hoops to get to Salzburg, I succeeded on that occasion but was later turned away from the check in desk in Rome because the country I was travelling to had changed its entry requirements over night.  I  imagine entry rules to the UK were just as difficult.

 

I am hoping a change at the top will make a difference to both the opera rep and artists.  Perhaps I'm over optimistic and I've heard awful tenors elsewhere too so it isn't just a problem here.  Dreadful productions won't lure me to the opera without a stellar cast.  The list of productions I avoid is growing year by year. And can we have some better conductors too please?  Also uncancel Grigolo and Domingo.

 

Is the RB such a draw?  Great dancers of course but terrible unimaginative rep.  With an AD who loves classical ballet now installed in Paris that will lure the fans in the future, after all if it's Fille you want Paris has got it..

 

A rebranding is all well and good but how about an improved product in both companies to match.

[JNC]

1 hour ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

I don't think there's any suggestion that the building name is changing.  The rebranding relates to the name of the umbrella organisation that is based in that building (and which covers The Royal Opera, The Royal Ballet and the orchestra, amongst other things), isn't it?

 

The Evening Standard article says this, which clarifies immensely: 

The organisation will be called Royal Ballet and Opera from the new season, which starts in September (though the building will remain the Royal Opera House).

 

Why this very clear statement wasn't part of the 'official' press release from ROH (now RBO) on their website though...

 

So 'Royal Opera House' as an organisation no longer exists, this is now the 'Royal Ballet and Opera'. But the building will remain known as the Royal Opera House. (This is probably a clever way to probably not faff about too much with the web address I think.) 

 

The article also clarifies the Royal Ballet will still exist in its own right, as each the Royal Opera and Royal Ballet get their own mentions for their new season programming as they mention much about the 'two companies' in the article, so I don't think that seems to be changing. 

 

Not to take it too far off topic but it's interesting they talk about the desire for new repetoire and how they're moving to a more approachable and less elitist organisation, implied through programming. But honestly, the biggest barrier and what makes RBO elitist right now (in my opinion!) isn't the programming but the ticket prices. I started attending regularly in 2018 and I'd say it's got much less 'approachable' due to the ticket prices, particularly post-pandemic. It's just a bit irritating to me they talk about making things approachable / less elitist but there is no mention of the price of things being the biggest issue...Credit where it's due, I think their Young ROH initiative is fab and must be a big reason why they are drawing in younger audiences more, but weirdly the article doesn't even mention or promote that! 

 

And I felt a bit bad for Kevin re his photo - he does look incredibly grumpy, surely the photographer could have asked for another shot as Kevin usually is quite smiley and approachable looking so it's unfortunate he doesn't look so here (when ironically the article talks so much about approachability!). 

 

[MAB]

27 minutes ago, JNC said:

they're moving to a more approachable and less elitist organisation

 

That always makes my blood run cold.

[Blossom]

5 hours ago, San Perregrino said:

 

I suspect that ballet has been bringing in more money and/or audiences than opera in recent times and may continue to do so going forwards. Giving greater prominence to the importance of ballet in the partnership has to be a good thing.

Interestingly, based on a book I got hold of about the ROH a while ago, opera always seems to be the one which suffers during a downturn .

[San Perregrino]

in a talk this morning Alex Beard said that in a survey of 'stakeholders' in the ROH, i.e. civil servants, ACE, sponsors etc only 2 out of 5 were cognisant of the ROH being about more than opera. it beggars belief I know. however, this is a major motivator for the name change and rebranding with a view to raising the profiles of, amongst those who can influence or fund. all three entities; the Royal Ballet, the Royal Opera and the ROH Orchestra. 

Edited May 1 by San Perregrino

[Lizbie1]

8 minutes ago, San Perregrino said:

in a talk this morning Alex Beard said that in a survey of 'stakeholders' in the ROH, i.e. civil servants, ACE, sponsors etc only 2 out of 5 were cognisant of the ROH being about more than opera. it beggars belief I know. however, this is a major motivator for the name change and rebranding with a view to raising the profiles of, amongst those who can influence or fund. all three entities; the Royal Ballet, the Royal Opera and the ROH Orchestra. 

 

This is really shocking. It's these people's job to know this stuff.

[Mary]

I'd want to see the survey question. Did it actually ask what was performed in the House?

Or could it be confusion about the  umbrella and separate organisations?

 

 

[bridiem]

17 minutes ago, San Perregrino said:

in a talk this morning Alex Beard said that in a survey of 'stakeholders' in the ROH, i.e. civil servants, ACE, sponsors etc only 2 out of 5 were cognisant of the ROH being about more than opera. it beggars belief I know. however, this is a major motivator for the name change and rebranding with a view to raising the profiles of, amongst those who can influence or fund. all three entities; the Royal Ballet, the Royal Opera and the ROH Orchestra. 

 

Yes, it does beggar belief. I simply don't believe that anyone even remotely involved in or interested in this field would not know that the Royal Ballet performs at the ROH. (Or if they really don't, what on earth has the ROH being doing in terms of its communications with these people?).

[FionaM]

50 minutes ago, Mary said:

I'd want to see the survey question. Did it actually ask what was performed in the House?

Or could it be confusion about the  umbrella and separate organisations?

 

clearly there are too many entities if so many people are confused.  
 

I assume the one that the general public is now going to see everywhere on marketing, social media, posters, etc will be ROYAL BALLET & OPERA.  
 

My guess is ROH won’t be seen as acronym or in full, once the transition is complete.  Though it will be interesting to see what happens with the website address.  

[Mary]

I don't believe they didn't know ballet was performed in the opera house,  but they might not have known who was in charge of funding for the Royal Ballet, was it the RB or was it 'ROH'.

 

I wouldn't have been clear myself.

 

I am still not clear exactly what functions the new RBO covers-as opposed to the separate companies. Is a grant given to ROH- as was, RBO now- which they then allocate between opera and ballet? does ROH/RBO look after all marketing for both? does a dancer have a contract with RB or with RBO? etc. I know it is written down somewhere and i shall get round to reading it, but, to be fair I can understand many people not knowing these  things.

 

 

 

 

[Sim]

I took a friend to the ROH to see Lucia last night.  She isn't a regular ballet or opera goer, but enjoys both on the odd occasion that she comes along.  I was telling her about the name change and she was very disappointed.  She said 'but how about the history and tradition? I mean, even I know that the Royal Ballet is based at the Royal Opera House.!'  

 

Many of the other big houses in Europe are called opera houses as historically opera was performed first.  I wonder whether they will all feel the need to change their names, or whether their public is more culturally aware than ours?  On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me at all if someone from ACE had no idea that the RB is based at the ROH!

[zxDaveM]

No doubt some consultancy firm got a nice fat fee for that name/logo change - and in the meantime loyal fans can't even get casting on which to base their multitude of purchases. You really feel sometimes 'da management' would be much happier without said mad for it, loyal fans, what with us buying all the cheaper tickets and all....

[bridiem]

11 minutes ago, Mary said:

I don't believe they didn't know ballet was performed in the opera house,  but they might not have known who was in charge of funding for the Royal Ballet, was it the RB or was it 'ROH'.

 

I wouldn't have been clear myself.

 

I am still not clear exactly what functions the new RBO covers-as opposed to the separate companies. Is a grant given to ROH- as was, RBO now- which they then allocate between opera and ballet? does ROH/RBO look after all marketing for both? does a dancer have a contract with RB or with RBO? etc. I know it is written down somewhere and i shall get round to reading it, but, to be fair I can understand many people not knowing these  things.

 

So can I, but these are not the things about which there is alleged to be confusion.

[art_enthusiast]

48 minutes ago, zxDaveM said:

No doubt some consultancy firm got a nice fat fee for that name/logo change 

 

A fat fee for a logo that looks like it was made using a WordArt font!

 

I think Ashley Dean (who I believe does her own art) could have designed a better one.

[Richard LH]

2 hours ago, JNC said:

Not to take it too far off topic but it's interesting they talk about the desire for new repetoire and how they're moving to a more approachable and less elitist organisation, implied through programming.

 

1 hour ago, MAB said:

 

That always makes my blood run cold.

Understandably @MAB , but with respect  @JNC

hasn't really summarised this accurately.

Neither Oliver Mears nor Kevin O'Hare, as respective Directors of the RO and RB,  suggest they are moving either organisation to be "more approachable and less elitist", through programming or otherwise.  The words "elitist", and "irrelevant" are referred to, by Mears alone, as a problematic, but unsubstantiated, preconception by others about Opera, and one which he challenges as follows:

He continues that the perception of opera as ‘elitist’ and ‘irrelevant’ remains a big problem. “But I think the work we’re presenting challenges those preconceptions which are normally presented without any evidence.”

[JNC]

@Richard LH my summary was my impression of the messaging, you’ve put one direct quote but here’s another one from Mears 

 

“The whole organisation has become a lot more approachable since I started in 2017,” 

 

It’s not directly said in the article but I’m reading between the lines here to imply my opinion is that Mears and O’Hare are being conscious about what they are programming to ensure it’s not considered “elitist” or “unapproachable”. There’s mention of the programming of an opera dealing with “challenging” subjects such as domestic violence , racism and child abuse, and also the Linbury programme of Legacy celebrating black and brown dancers (not mentioned in the article).
 

I think there are active, conscious decisions being made with a view to challenging the conception that RBO/ROH is elitist and making it a more approachable organisation but I suppose neither Mears or O’Hare say it so directly in those terms. I should have been clearer in my original post that it was my impression of the article rather than exactly what was being stated, so apologies for that. Of course I could be 2 + 2 = 5…but given we talk a lot about ACE funding being aware of such words/criteria it’s not a stretch, but still my opinion. 

I add that I’m actually not against such programming - i’m not familiar with opera, I personally am unsure if I’d want to see something with such themes but just because it might not be my preference it’s not to say it shouldn’t be programmed and could be a valuable work. And the Legacy programme sounds like it could be really interesting, although there’s not a huge amount of detail right now. Similarly there is a balance to be struck and making sure heritage words that have artistic value aren’t discarded because they don’t fit a particular “agenda”. It’s a complicated topic with lots of nuance so I don’t want to take this thread off topic so I’ll leave it there!
 

I think the overarching point I was trying to make (which may have been expressed badly) is approachable repertoire is one thing, but if people can’t afford to see anything  due to the high ticket prices then that is elitist, and not approachable! 

[Richard LH]

Many thanks for your clarification @JNC

[San Perregrino]

3 hours ago, zxDaveM said:

No doubt some consultancy firm got a nice fat fee

 

2 hours ago, art_enthusiast said:

A fat fee for a logo

 

is this fact or supposition?

[Jeannette]

Stepping in to give my “Hurrah!” for the theatre’s new name…with word BALLET! 

[zxDaveM]

3 hours ago, San Perregrino said:

 

 

is this fact or supposition?

 

largely supposition - but remember the 2012 Olympics logo....

[bridiem]

11 hours ago, San Perregrino said:

is this fact or supposition?

 

It's surely a likelihood, isn't it? Or do you think it might have been designed internally, or for free? (Would be very glad to hear that if so! Except that I think it's horrible, whoever designed it...).

Edited May 2 by bridiem

[bridiem]

Judging by the two articles about this in today's Links, there is a deal of confusion about this name change. One writer thinks the name of the building has changed, the other thinks there is now only one company performing at the - er - ROH. Which I think is indicative of how poorly this has been publicised (and possibly, considered).

[zxDaveM]

2 hours ago, bridiem said:

Judging by the two articles about this in today's Links, there is a deal of confusion about this name change. One writer thinks the name of the building has changed, the other thinks there is now only one company performing at the - er - ROH. Which I think is indicative of how poorly this has been publicised (and possibly, considered).

 

you don't mean:

Left hand. Right hand. Not a lot going on in between....

 

To be fair, probably lots of consideration went on, with lots of time spent and effort of thought, etc. Which is possibly why there is no time left to sort out casting even for the high paying 'super' Friends

[Peanut68]

Royal Body Odour??

This certainly has the unpleasant whiff of yet more wasteful use of money being spent on external consultants & a lack of actual fact finding from Opera & Ballet goers….

I suspect to, that there will be more tiers not fewer of management hierarchy & costs….

And where does if end? 
Afterall, if its aim is for all encompassing inclusivity shouldn’t it have many other things added? Pet Shop Boys coming up? That’s Pop right? Bill Bailey? Comedy….Back Stage Tours & exhibitions ….museum? Kids activities….Nursery? Food & drink - hospitality? 

So I’m now at RBOPCMNC

to me the pertinent 2 letters are also slap bang in the middle….it’s PC driving yet another wasteful & unwanted & IMHO utterly unnecessary change. Again. 

 

Edited May 2 by Peanut68

[JNC]

4 hours ago, bridiem said:

Judging by the two articles about this in today's Links, there is a deal of confusion about this name change. One writer thinks the name of the building has changed, the other thinks there is now only one company performing at the - er - ROH. Which I think is indicative of how poorly this has been publicised (and possibly, considered).

The press release on the ROH website is weirdly hidden - you have to go to news, click the 2024/2025 season announcement page and then in the first paragraph there is a hyperlink where they announce “Royal Ballet and Opera” to it.

 

I read this again to see if it helped clear up confusion but it doesn’t. It’s very much saying a lot without saying anything at all,

with phrases like “The Royal Opera House describes the place we work, not who we are. The whole is always more than the sum pf its parts…”

 

What does this actually mean? It doesn’t clarify what the building is/will be called. 
 

Alex Beard says “ballet and opera are the real thing”. I mean…well yes they’re not imaginary and they are a “thing”…

 

I’m being a bit facetious but it’s actually quite worrying their official press release doesn’t really explain what this actually means for the company (companies) structurally (is it staying exactly the same but just the umbrella name changes from ROH to rbo) and the building name etc…and without being too harsh I expect someone in Alex Beard’s position to be able to provide an authoritative, clear, and dare I say somewhat inspiring message. 

 

whoever is in charge of their communications needs to think about the clarity of messaging and not just fluff about the building being a “nerve centre” (?!) and Beard saying not even talking about the name change in his quote! 
 

we shouldn’t have to go to other news sources for clarity about what this name change means for ROH. And the fact that some sources are conflicting shows that even in briefings and interviews given directly they’ve not sorted out a clear communication about what this actually means…

 

If I was ROH/Alex Beard I’d talk about why they are changing the name of the *organisation* from ROH to RBO to reflect two equally important partners (well three if you count the orchestra but they’re not in the name…!). Then I’d clarify the building name remains the same for traditional/historical reasons (or alternatively if the building name is changing I’d explain what the new name is). Then I’d go into the importance of art forms like ballet and opera and how they bring joy to so many, and then you can reference the cinema broadcast and outreach etc as you see fit. 

Edited May 2 by JNC

[Geoff]

This announcement brings together a number of factors:

 

- Their stumbling marketing department 

- Their uneasy relationship with the Maoists at the Arts Council

- The (relatively) new policy of „everyone shall dance every role“, sensible enough given the growth of the company but clearly more complex when it comes to casting than the days long ago when there were only two Auroras across a year of performances

- The illiteracy of their staff, who mangle the simplest English sentences and create confusion even when all should be clear

 

What could be called a perfect storm. 

 

[Mary]

After reading all about it, I'm now more confused than before...having tried to explain the change to someone who asked me I realised I couldn't.

 

It would help if someone could tell me, which functions does the body 'Royal Ballet and Opera' deal with-? or perhaps, when ACE gives a grant, is it to RBO or is it to 2 separate organisations? Are they really saying some people at ACE were giving a grant to ROH without realising it was funding ballet as well? Really?

 

And it still doesn't make sense that the theatre  is still called the Royal Opera House if they are focusing on 'the place where we work' 'being about' both ballet and opera

(though personally I do not want the name to change.)

Nor do I understand if ROH is separate to 3 other organisations how decisions get made about ......anything really.

 

Possibly I am just being slow, and maybe someone from 'RBO' or even ROH can explain.

 

 

[Richard LH]

There is lot of invective on here about the name change which includes fair criticism/opinion, but some posts seem to be repeating queries about being unsure of its exact nature and extent; queries which may have been valid initially but which I thought had been answered pretty clearly by the Royal Ballet and Opera at the outset, and covered upthread. 

[bangorballetboy]

I really don't understand what is so difficult here.  There is a body that owns and runs the Royal Opera House, including the administration of the three main cultural entities that perform there (The Royal Opera, The Royal Ballet and the Orchestra of the Royal Opera House, none of which are independent of the umbrella body).  That body is currently is currently called Royal Opera House Covent Garden Foundation and its brand name is Royal Opera House.  The only thing that appears to be changing here is the brand name of that body - everything else is staying the same.

[FionaM]

Name changes are always difficult and take time to root themselves, particularly for patrons who have used the old name for decades.  We should be patient.  

Bristol is still struggling with the renaming of our main concert hall from Colston Hall (a slave trader .. won’t they all in that era) to the Bristol Beacon.  
 

It’s beyond me why it couldn’t have been ‘Bristol Concert Hall’ which describes what it is on the tin.   However I am getting used to going to ‘the Beacon’.  It is a unique name.