Royal Ballet - Swan Lake 2024

[Richard LH]

30 minutes ago, bridiem said:

Swan Lake at its best is not so much emotional as transcendent, which is ultimately even more powerful. 

Exactly! 

[Linnzi5]

There are some stunning photos on Instagram on Fumi's and William's accounts. The photos were taken by dancersdiary and are actually from last night's performance, if anyone is interested.  I wasn't aware photos were usually taken at performances, so that's interesting. It also is quite sobering to read on Fumi's account her saying how quickly this performance had been put together (after Lauren was unable to dance).  I have to say, I'd never have known this pairing hadn't been rehearsing for weeks. 

[Richard LH]

Thanks @Linnzi5....and I feel that in those lovely black and white photos Fumi and Will really give us a glimpse of the beauty and emotion to be found  in White Act ballet.

[San Perregrino]

32 minutes ago, Linnzi5 said:

. It also is quite sobering to read on Fumi's account her saying how quickly this performance had been put together (after Lauren was unable to dance).

They did dance this together in the last run so it’s not completely from scratch. 

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, bridiem said:

Swan Lake at its best is not so much emotional as transcendent, which is ultimately even more powerful. 

 

Can the RB production be transcendent given the downbeat ending? I feel it might be easier for productions that end either with both being united in death or both surviving.

[Scheherezade]

1 hour ago, bridiem said:

Swan Lake at its best is not so much emotional as transcendent, which is ultimately even more powerful. 

I find the Tchaikovsky score in itself transcendent (and I think that’s such an accurate description, Bridie).

[Linnzi5]

1 minute ago, Scheherezade said:

I find the Tchaikovsky score in itself transcendent (and I think that’s such an accurate description, Bridie).

I love the score. It's one of the reasons I love SL so much. Though, perhaps somewhat controversially, I did prefer Gavriel Heine at the baton as his interpretation of the score was very much how I like it. Personal taste, I think.

[Linnzi5]

7 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

Can the RB production be transcendent given the downbeat ending? I feel it might be easier for productions that end either with both being united in death or both surviving.

It's interesting. I have loved the productions ending where Siegfried and Odette ride off in the 'swan boat' together, united in death but I also like Scarlett's ending too. I can understand why some don't like the prelude and the ending in RB's present production but I like both. Out of interest, are there productions where they both survive? I don't think I would enjoy that as much. The only thing I would say is that when they both die, I didn't find it that sad - as they were together in death. Whereas, when Siegfried is the survivor it is sadder and tugs on my heartstrings a bit more. Odette returning to her original princess, human form rounds it off nicely for me. I take your point about the downbeat ending though.

 

I also must add that when watching SL, I do not want to cry in the same way as I would when watching Manon or R&J. It's a different sort of feeling. I think @Sim hit the nail on the head for me - it's just so beautiful, in parts, that it makes me feel a part of it and emotional because of the sheer beauty (alongside that incredible, iconic score). I didn't cry last night, in fact, mostly, I had the biggest, warmest smile on my face as I soaked up every minute - I honestly felt joy. I did feel emotional, of course, but not in the sad, heart-wrenching way I did when watching Manon. 

[art_enthusiast]

4 minutes ago, Linnzi5 said:

I love the score. It's one of the reasons I love SL so much. 

 

Same. I could happily listen to it on repeat every single day (and I frequently do, it features heavily on my Spotify Wrapped!)

 

On the whole I prefer the ballets which are more grounded in realism like Manon/Mayerling, but Swan Lake is the exception for me. The RB's was the first Swan Lake I saw live in 2022. The start of the Ukraine War/playing the anthem before performances gave it additional poignancy. The introduction/showing Odette changing from human to swan has me emotionally gripped at the first note.

[Tango Dancer]

Yes there's a few productions with a happy ending.  I think the Marinsky has one where they defeat Rothbart and go off together, there may be some others.  There's also a rather interesting Danish version where Siegfried is required to keep his promise and marry Odile after Odette dies which I think is a curious take on it.    

[Linnzi5]

1 minute ago, Tango Dancer said:

Yes there's a few productions with a happy ending.  I think the Marinsky has one where they defeat Rothbart and go off together, there may be some others.  There's also a rather interesting Danish version where Siegfried is required to keep his promise and marry Odile after Odette dies which I think is a curious take on it.    

I'm not sure I would like the latter ending. I mean, it is interesting, but I'm not sure it would work for me as I can't imagine Siegfried would do that after losing Odette, but I'm sure it would be interesting! 

[Dawnstar]

9 minutes ago, Linnzi5 said:

It's interesting. I have loved the productions ending where Siegfried and Odette ride off in the 'swan boat' together, united in death but I also like Scarlett's ending too. I can understand why some don't like the prelude and the ending in RB's present production but I like both. Out of interest, are there productions where they both survive? I don't think I would enjoy that as much. The only thing I would say is that when they both die, I didn't find it that sad - as they were together in death. Whereas, when Siegfried is the survivor it is sadder and tugs on my heartstrings a bit more. Odette returning to her original princess, human form rounds it off nicely for me. I take your point about the downbeat ending though.

 

I'm wondering because the most moved I've been by SL was when I saw ENB's production with Salenko & Frola last season. I don't know if the ending of that, with them being united in death, may have helped. Or if it was due to the performers. Or what.

[Tango Dancer]

3 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

I'm wondering because the most moved I've been by SL was when I saw ENB's production with Salenko & Frola last season. I don't know if the ending of that, with them being united in death, may have helped. Or if it was due to the performers. Or what.

 

I think the performers can make a big difference to me.  I find it more moving when I'm bought into the relationship and chemistry between the characters and a lot of that comes down to the way they interact and how they work together as a couple.  I mean my favourites are Zenaida and Nehemiah (first time I saw it)  and Nela and Vadim (last time) and in both cases it was the chemistry between the character that was the thing that really moved me.  If that's not there, I don't really care what happens to them.  

[Tango Dancer]

14 minutes ago, Linnzi5 said:

I'm not sure I would like the latter ending. I mean, it is interesting, but I'm not sure it would work for me as I can't imagine Siegfried would do that after losing Odette, but I'm sure it would be interesting! 

 It's not my favourite either, I just think the concept is really interesting of the prince being required, after losing his love, to keep the promise he'd given at the ball despite hating every minute of it.    

[capybara]

34 minutes ago, PeterS said:

They did dance this together in the last run so it’s not completely from scratch. 

 

But it's always possible that we, the audience, don't know the half of it! [Their previous performance was over 2 years ago.]

And, after all, Fumi in particular was very tied up for weeks with the New Works (Twinkle) and her second Manon was only 3 weeks ago. Swan Lake represents a huge stylistic change from both and is surely one of ballet's most significant challenges at the best of times.

[Geoff]

3 hours ago, bridiem said:

Swan Lake at its best is not so much emotional as transcendent, which is ultimately even more powerful. 

Nicely put. Frankly there is something of a muddle at present.  We are offered performances of the 19th century classical repertoire danced at demonstrably the wrong tempi, with audiences (and company) trained in naturalistic narrative, psychological complexity, non-idiomatic emotionalism and 21st century extensions and technique. 

 

Ugly, boring and anachronistic misunderstandings between stage and auditorium should be the predictable result, so it’s a surprise that anything works. Imho. 
 

Edited March 17 by Geoff

[bridiem]

8 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

Can the RB production be transcendent given the downbeat ending? I feel it might be easier for productions that end either with both being united in death or both surviving.

 

No, I don't think it can. It aims for emotion rather than transcendence (in spite of the music) and so for me doesn't fully achieve either. There's still a lot to admire, or even love, but it's not SL at its best.

[Suffolkgal]

Decades ago in Leningrad as was I saw the Kirov as was with Asylmuratova in SL. As we went to the theatre on the coach (shepherded) the guide was explaining the plot and saying: of course we are Russian so we have a happy ending.  Take a moment there! Anyway it did … I remember the ticket cost three roubles. 

[Richard LH]

9 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

Can the RB production be transcendent given the downbeat ending?

I find it so;  the transcedence is in the dancing and music but also in the ending; as @Linnzi5 observes, Odette takes control at the end and through her self-sacrifice defeats evil,  is released from her imprisonment, and although leaving behind her earthly body,  (literally!) rises above it all in the  end scene, reaching the spiritual realm. 

[capybara]

54 minutes ago, Suffolkgal said:

Decades ago in Leningrad as was I saw the Kirov as was with Asylmuratova in SL. As we went to the theatre on the coach (shepherded) the guide was explaining the plot and saying: of course we are Russian so we have a happy ending.  Take a moment there! Anyway it did … I remember the ticket cost three roubles. 

Asylmuratova in Swan Lake was as good as it can get. 
I remember her guest appearances with the RB. 

[Jamesrhblack]

The original scenario has Odette dying in Siegfried’s arms and Siegfried drowning with the last image being of the swans on the lake which is what Nureyev sought to emulate. Ultimately, Siegfried fails as, however inadvertently, he breaks his vow. As with Orpheus. The confrontation of our own mortal inadequacy in the face of temptation and challenge is humbling. I’m not fond of Scarlett’s Prologue as I think it diminishes the impact of Odette’s entrance and I think there are incongruities within his revised scenario that might well have been ironed out if he lived to supervise a revival. I’m writing from recollections of 2020 and 2022 as not seeing a performance until June, and agree that a prone Siegfried for much of Act 4 doesn’t work, but I think his effort to match the originally intended tragic failure an imaginative solution as the music returns to the hammering B’s of the Swans’ B Minor theme (although I could do without a spirit Odette rising up). All opinions my own.

Edited March 17 by Jamesrhblack

[Missfrankiecat]

4 minutes ago, Richard LH said:

I find it so;  the transcedence is in the dancing and music but also in the ending; as @Linnzi5 observes, Odette takes control at the end and through her self-sacrifice defeats evil,  is released from her imprisonment, and although leaving behind her earthly body,  (literally!) rises above it all in the  end scene, reaching the spiritual realm. 

You have expressed that exactly as I feel too @Richard LH.  [The endings were they both die are beyond dismal!].   What I particularly loved about Marienela's interpretation on opening night was the feeling I had that the ending was pre-figured by her Odette's character, which was much stronger, angrier even, from the outset than she is usually played, already struggling to find an escape.  She melted in the gaze of Sigfried's love but there was always a sense she was ready to take action herself if push came to shove.  Obviously, the lighting issues on opening night slightly marred this glorious catharsis (or illustrated an unusually speedy resurrection!) but the Scarlett ending did finally make total sense to me.  I'm looking forward to seeing some of the other Odette/Odile's to see how they act it.  

[Emeralds]

ENB's production in the round for Royal Albert Hall (as opposed to its traditional theatre and touring production) has a "happy" ending in that Siegfried and Odette both fight off Rothbart (described in the synopsis as "a struggle of good over evil") at the end, Rothbart is defeated and collapses/dies, they both live and all the Swan maidens are freed and become totally human beings again. At least, that's what it looks like in a vast arena with 60 swans moving around. 

 

I assume that Derek Deane's production gets over the sticky issue of Siegfried's (mimed) vow to marry Odile at the ball on the basis that he only ever vowed to marry Odette so if it was mistaken identity, it shouldn't count! Anyway, those of you who are watching it in June can see for yourselves. I think both Deane's productions for ENB stick quite faithfully to the intention in the music. (Side topic-Ironically,  ENB is the only company that preserves Frederick Ashton's beautiful choreography for the Act 1 Waltz as well as the Neapolitan dance in a production still being danced.) 

 

The problem I have with Scarlett's version is that although it Is great in many aspects, the ending lets it down by doing completely different things to what the music is saying- which itself is quite unusual for  Scarlett, who is normally quite musically sensitive and aware in all his other choreography (from his moving No Man's Land to the beautiful Hummingbird and Asphodel Meadows).

 

The music is triumphant and changes to a major key, so whether the ending is happy ever after in the afterlife or happy together in real life, it should have an upbeat ending with them both joyful, or perhaps they could both die and the stage lighting focused on the swan maidens being freed of the spell...the focus in this production on a devastated Siegfried holding a deceased Odette doesn't work for me.

 

I find that (having seen it 5 times since it premiered) I tend to switch off when he carries her body out and just look for Odette's spirit or close my eyes and listen to the music while getting ready for the bows.

Edited March 17 by Emeralds

[JNC]

The photos of Fumi and Will are glorious! Thanks for posting and reading reviews the performance sounded as good as I would expect (ie incredible).

 

I’m sorry they weren’t originally cast together as I would have booked, I only hope they are cast together next time as they would be my “one to watch” then. 
 

(I’m also hoping for them to be cast together in Manon next time…) 

[Richard LH]

7 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

I assume that Derek Deane's production gets over the sticky issue of Siegfried's (mimed) vow to marry Odile at the ball on the basis that he only ever vowed to marry Odette so if it was mistaken identity, it shouldn't count!

The problem with that is, if his vow to Odile doesn't count, why all the fuss and the need for the last Act resolution? 🤔

[Emeralds]

23 minutes ago, Richard LH said:

The problem with that is, if his vow to Odile doesn't count, why all the fuss and the need for the last Act resolution? 🤔

I agree, Richard- all the productions that have Siegfried (or Siegfried and Odette) fighting off Rothbart are dramatically weak in this regard. In some of the old touring Soviet/Russian versions where they do this it always feels like halfway through Act 4, Siegfried seems to wake up from a bad dream, decides to fight Rothbart (as though in a video game!) scores a winning hit and boom, it all ends nicely!

 

It makes one ask, "well, why didn't Odette just let him do that in Act 2 then?- she and her maidens would be freed a lot sooner!" The traditional explanation was that if he killed Rothbart then Odette and her maidens would be stuck as swans forever till they die. So that doesn't quite make sense (but it does fit in with the music).

 

The most logical ending would be that they both die which frees the maidens and they are united as a couple in the afterlife. The orchestration of the music does hint that some positive transformation takes place so the productions that don't demonstrate anything happening to the swans miss a great dramatic as well as musical highlight. I did like the stunning celestial lovers' boat in the last scene that Anthony Dowell's old 1987 production had which I think was a great hit with both the newbies and regulars seeing it - it made people go "ahhh....". The 1977 production by Ashton and Morrice also had something similar (it's still my favourite version though nobody dances it now). 

Edited March 17 by Emeralds

[Silver Capricorn]

2 hours ago, Suffolkgal said:

Decades ago in Leningrad as was I saw the Kirov as was with Asylmuratova in SL. As we went to the theatre on the coach (shepherded) the guide was explaining the plot and saying: of course we are Russian so we have a happy ending.  Take a moment there! Anyway it did … I remember the ticket cost three roubles. 

In my country, when we were completely dominated by the Soviet Union, only Soviet versions of Swan Lake were available, so anything other than a happy ending was out of the question.  The breaking of the oath had no meaning at all, which was very significant for the time.  It wasn't until Velvet Revolution that I saw a tragic ending for the first time, and honestly, I love it.

[Balletbloke]

Sorry Geoff, but you'll have to explain what "non-idiomatic emotionalism" is.

[Geoff]

8 minutes ago, Balletbloke said:

Sorry Geoff, but you'll have to explain what "non-idiomatic emotionalism" is.

Have to? Well, perhaps it would be interesting to see what other people understand by what I wrote. For those with an interest in Petipa and Ivanov I don‘t think it is obscure. 

[Scheherezade]

My thoughts: the weakness in Act 4 revolves almost entirely around the lack of agency given to Siegfried. This apart, there is a strong religious thread running through Act 4. We have the ascendancy of the swans over evil/Von Rothbart, the resurrection of Odette’s spirit representing the ultimate victory of good over evil through sacrifice and death, and the return of her mortal, human body in death, emphasising the difference between human frailty and betrayal with unconditional love and eternal life. I don’t think that Siegfried’s contrition is anywhere near enough but if he were to take more of an active part in the defeat of Von Rothbart, the ending would ultimately feel far more satisfying and this would perfectly carry the swell of the closing part of the score. 

[Geoff]

2 hours ago, Jamesrhblack said:

I’m not fond of Scarlett’s Prologue as I think it diminishes the impact of Odette’s entrance and I think there are incongruities within his revised scenario that might well have been ironed out if he lived to supervise a revival.

 

There is an intriguing (maybe new) credit for this run of SL:

 

>>Staging: Gary Avis, Laura Morera and Samantha Raine

>>Artistic Supervisor Scarlett Estate: Laura Morera

 

I am on the record on this Forum as seeing most of the performances of the initial run of this production, loving the magnificent work of designer John Macfarlane but by the end of the run growing steadily ever less impressed by the choreographic initiatives of Liam Scarlett. Years have since passed and things are changing for the better. Although there is presumably little that can be done about the unimaginative faux classicism - particularly acts 1 and 4 - Scarlett added to the production, there are undoubted improvements throughout. It‘s cleaner, less fussy, closer to a classic SL. 

 

So I think we owe congratulations to Morera, who has years of artistic experience and maturity (and artistic sensibility) Scarlett sadly never accumulated. Her supreme delicacy, intelligence and what in days gone by one might have called ‘taste‘ is now in evidence throughout, for example in trimming Benno’s anachronistic “method” acting into and across the pastiche ensemble work of Act 1. Long may she be supported in, let‘s call it, discovering the changes Scarlett would have made had he been able to. 
 

Edited March 17 by Geoff

[Balletbloke]

37 minutes ago, Geoff said:

Have to? Well, perhaps it would be interesting to see what other people understand by what I wrote. For those with an interest in Petipa and Ivanov I don‘t think it is obscure. 

Well that leaves me none the wiser.

[Scheherezade]

56 minutes ago, Balletbloke said:

Sorry Geoff, but you'll have to explain what "non-idiomatic emotionalism" is.

 

44 minutes ago, Geoff said:

Have to? Well, perhaps it would be interesting to see what other people understand by what I wrote. For those with an interest in Petipa and Ivanov I don‘t think it is obscure. 

 

6 minutes ago, Balletbloke said:

Well that leaves me none the wiser.

Perhaps if you ask @Geoff what, precisely, he means by non-idiomatic emotionalism rather than what other people understand by what he wrote, @Balletbloke …