Post-transmission: BBC Panorama documentary/investigation into vocational schools

[Ondine]

A previous thread from @LukeJennings which I'll add here as it touches on similar / related  issues.   It's worth reading. I'm unsure what happened after this.

 

 

 

[Mummy twinkle toes]

1 minute ago, Ondine said:

A previous thread from @LukeJennings which I'll add here as it touches on similar / related  issues.   It's worth reading. I'm unsure what happened after this.

 

 

 

The investigation was closed early by Westminster so not much.

[Ondine]

And of course this, which @LukeJennings links to in that thread. 

 

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v43/n18/luke-jennings/learned-behaviour

 

 

[Jewel]

The lawyer is gathering evidence with regards to corroborating the stories of existing clients based around specific allegations (namely body shaming/eating disorders). 
 

If anyone new coming forward does have a strong enough case then it’s something they could potentially look at. 

[EnAvant]

I have been reading this thread over the last couple of days and as a young dance teacher (entering my third year of teaching professionally) I’d like to share my thoughts…

 

I think that a big part of the problem is that the dance world is naturally comparative - to other dancers, schools, body types, productions, costumes (the list goes on!). And what generally are we comparing to? Tradition. We are fighting against the tradition of ballet which many people see as the backbone of the art form. It is so difficult to move away from as it holds so much historical value. However, the dance world is extremely different to what it was 50 years ago, let alone 200! Yet so many of these traditional values remain. I think that more ACCEPTANCE of 21st century bodies and general culture needs to be embedded within training and performing companies. 
 

Abuse from teachers shouldn’t be tolerated. Full stop. They have a Duty of Care for every child in their presence. If intervening measures were put in place in these schools many years ago to protect children who are already extremely vulnerable then I’m sure that so many young people would not have had to have suffered with their mental and physical health. Those students who suffered in the past and then go on to teach implementing similar methods does create this cycle that is so hard to break as has previously been mentioned on this thread.

 

It’s so awful hearing what so many people have gone through and their lasting negative effects. The human body simply cannot survive with minimal food when dancers need to fuel their bodies more so than the average person. To reduce the calorific intake is to be unsafe and puts young dancers at very high risk of injury and harming their potential careers even further. Telling a dancer to not eat carbs is, to me, ridiculous. The incredible Safe Dance Practice book recommends that at least half of the dancer’s diet should be carbohydrates as the body relies on these as the main source of energy. Not having enough means that the body will never be in its optimal place of functioning and therefore the dancer cannot truly be at their best. I feel that any dance leader/institutions should read Safe Dance Practice as it is the first thing we need to get right to protect children. So much dance science research is available to us so we need to use it. Embrace what is current and use the technology that has been developed to aid the dancer. 
 

In my recent training we were told to NEVER comment on people’s bodies, whether gaining or losing weight, puberty changes, muscular changes etc (unless a cause of concern eg losing a lot of weight rapidly). Bodies naturally fluctuate over time and I’m sure everyone knows themselves if they gain or lose weight at any given time so don’t need to be made even more aware of that in front of a whole class. As has been said before, when you watch a production you don’t look for the slimmest dancer, you look at who is truly expressing their role and you become drawn into their performance. With the amount that dancers in vocational schools are exercising, no one will ever be ‘big’!

 

In regards to mental health, there are so many CPD courses out there that are available for teachers to do. I feel that this should be compulsory for any teacher/institution to do annually to keep up to date with current guidelines as well as regular safeguarding training. Things have to be CURRENT. For both vocational and local schools. All anyone wants is for their child to be safe and to grow up confident in their abilities and keep doing what they love, it’s not easy and they work so hard.
 

if you flash forward 50 years, is there necessarily going to be a need in the performing world to have very thin dancers? Dance is all about expression and communication, not body shape. 
 

Lots of teachers out there who were ex-dancers may love ballet, but don’t love teaching. That’s where things can go wrong. If you genuinely love teaching, as I do, seeing a child bring their best into each class and develop as a person is the most rewarding thing. Unfortunately, some people just don’t see that. 
 

I’d like to reassure everyone that teacher training is different now. There is much more emphasis on inclusivity and general joy of dancing for young people. I, of course, can only speak from my own experience but I was taught by a few teachers of ‘that generation’ where I do have some upsetting memories from and I strive in my own teaching practices to make everyone feel like they are a valued member of the class. I just feel that it will be a long old time before younger teachers like me would even be considered to teach at these vocational schools. 
 

(I know a few things have been repeated earlier on in the thread but I’ve been thinking about posting for a while and just wanted to get everything I was thinking out! Thank you for taking the time to read)

[Richard LH]

12 hours ago, capybara said:

 

(The reports which RichardLH posted on this thread earlier are from the ISC, not Ofsted.)

The 2014-2015 reports were by Ofsted; the latest ones are by the ISI (Independent Schools Inspectorate).

[Lifeafterballet]

Body shaming from teachers / adults is unacceptable and damaging but more prevalent from a child’s peers in my experience. 
Ballet students are not only under intense scrutiny of the teachers and themselves but from each other. 
Being judged, gossiped about, isolated and shunned is devastating. 
Snide comments about weight, your peers not wanting to stand next to you at the bar or in the centre or go to lunch with you. 
Their fear that you will ‘trigger’ them. 

 

Being the ‘thinnest’ girl, the one who the teacher singles out that they can have a donut and will stand a better chance of getting a contract, isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. 
It’s lonely 😞 

Im sad that wasn’t talked about in the documentary. 

[Neverdancedjustamum]

I remember years ago my DD was in a summer intensive and I chanced upon a group of mums in the waiting room chatting. Their daughters were in one of the schools featured in the documentary, and were in one of the older groups of the intensive. They were all worried about their daughters’ attitudes towards food and eating in general at the time. I remember distinctly like it was just yesterday, though this was a good few years ago, what one of the mums told me: “Oh they’re all at it at school. It’s just moving from one bizarre diet to another but constantly being on some strange diet.”  The whole talk hinted at competitive dieting in such a small, enclosed environment - who can be skinniest, who can have the longest lines. That conversation stayed with me for years and whilst my DD has never been in full time vocational school, since then I’ve been so vigilant in subtly looking out for warning signs. Thankfully so far, knock on wood, she’s not the type to even think about it. She doesn’t have the textbook ideal diet but I think a big part of how it’s a non-issue for her (and often oblivious that eating issues exist) is because she has very distinctively separate dance and ‘normal teenager’ lives. I remember one time we were walking towards her associates class and she was eating a burger having just come from another class. We rounded the corner and I saw some of her peers snacking on healthy bars. I told her to go back around the corner as I was embarrassed she was eating ‘junk food’. She marched on ahead and said to me “I’ve just been dancing for two hours. I need the energy.”  I was told later that she even broke out some cake in the change room and shared it around. In that moment, I did think my DD had a more normal attitude towards food than me and I felt ashamed. It might be a controversial decision but my husband refused to let our DD watch the programme. His fear was that despite numerous talks and lessons on healthy eating in their (normal, non-vocational school), our DD is still quite naive and innocent about how prevalent these can be in the dance world.  He didn’t want to bring the topic to the forefront of her mind when it never has. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Neverdancedjustamum

[Ruby Foo]

 

Lots of teachers out there who were ex-dancers may love ballet, but don’t love teaching. That’s where things can go wrong. If you genuinely love teaching, as I do, seeing a child bring their best into each class and develop as a person is the most rewarding thing. Unfortunately, some people just don’t see that. 
 
Thank you. Yes. Never a truer word. While the teachers in these institutions have all been through teacher training, they are also a product/ pro dancers of the SAME institution. This is precisely why they are taken on - to preserve the traditions and style of that institution. From my daughter’s experience there are some truly wonderful, wonderful teachers in that institution,( I cannot stress this enough) but there are also some who are not- who do not practice healthy teaching practice as we now know it in the contemporary ballet world. They are still ‘professional dancers’ but now teaching and are not the ‘best’ teachers out there by a long way.

There are also professional ballet dancers who teach without any teaching qualifications, something which should not be happening. While they may have so much to offer, they may also use dangerous practices.

My daughter was asked to do fouettés en pointe by a famous pro dancer having never done them and was definitely not ready to try. She had only done a little pointe work at the time. As we all know that would have needed months of preparation at the barre and strengthening exercises etc. 

When she told the dancer she’d never done them she was asked to ‘just try one or 2’. The dancer had not asked how much pointe work the class had done or offered any alternatives. Dangerous practices.

[Sophoife]

On 12/09/2023 at 07:17, Ondine said:

A young Margot Fonteyn had not one but two 'nose jobs' to achieve the required 'look' demanded.

 

Monica Mason?

 

...when she steeled herself to ask Frederick Ashton – now director of the company – why he did not use her more, Ashton claimed, evasively and outrageously that he didn't like Mason's nose. He suggested she might have it fixed. Today Mason enjoys the effrontery of that remark – "imagine me having that conversation with my dancers" – although at the time she almost considered having the surgery.

 

An actress friend of mine, who successfully completed one of the then-top two courses in Australia, got quite a lot of stage work, but never succeeded in her film/TV auditions.

 

Eventually her agent said "darling it's your mole". She had a mole in the vicinity of her upper lip, approximately 2mm in diameter.

 

She had the mole removed, and promptly started getting TV roles! The (tiny) scar was easier to hide using TV makeup than the mole had been.

 

So, not just ballet!

[Ondine]

I've posted on the 'other' Panorama Doing Dance thread and I'll add this here too.

 

I've bumped the 2021 White Lodge thread back up the forum in order that members can read or re-read it.  Despite all, the LADO and Met Police investigation concluded that not enough evidence etc etc.

 

The  Panorama programme this week, the columns in the press, the lawyer involvement, may or may not cast more light on the alleged abuse, or it could be that there is heat for a short while and again it all fizzles out.

 

The allegations of course are now wider than White Lodge. We will have to wait and see.

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Ondine

[Peanut68]

9 hours ago, EnAvant said:

I have been reading this thread over the last couple of days and as a young dance teacher (entering my third year of teaching professionally) I’d like to share my thoughts…

 

I think that a big part of the problem is that the dance world is naturally comparative - to other dancers, schools, body types, productions, costumes (the list goes on!). And what generally are we comparing to? Tradition. We are fighting against the tradition of ballet which many people see as the backbone of the art form. It is so difficult to move away from as it holds so much historical value. However, the dance world is extremely different to what it was 50 years ago, let alone 200! Yet so many of these traditional values remain. I think that more ACCEPTANCE of 21st century bodies and general culture needs to be embedded within training and performing companies. 
 

Abuse from teachers shouldn’t be tolerated. Full stop. They have a Duty of Care for every child in their presence. If intervening measures were put in place in these schools many years ago to protect children who are already extremely vulnerable then I’m sure that so many young people would not have had to have suffered with their mental and physical health. Those students who suffered in the past and then go on to teach implementing similar methods does create this cycle that is so hard to break as has previously been mentioned on this thread.

 

It’s so awful hearing what so many people have gone through and their lasting negative effects. The human body simply cannot survive with minimal food when dancers need to fuel their bodies more so than the average person. To reduce the calorific intake is to be unsafe and puts young dancers at very high risk of injury and harming their potential careers even further. Telling a dancer to not eat carbs is, to me, ridiculous. The incredible Safe Dance Practice book recommends that at least half of the dancer’s diet should be carbohydrates as the body relies on these as the main source of energy. Not having enough means that the body will never be in its optimal place of functioning and therefore the dancer cannot truly be at their best. I feel that any dance leader/institutions should read Safe Dance Practice as it is the first thing we need to get right to protect children. So much dance science research is available to us so we need to use it. Embrace what is current and use the technology that has been developed to aid the dancer. 
 

In my recent training we were told to NEVER comment on people’s bodies, whether gaining or losing weight, puberty changes, muscular changes etc (unless a cause of concern eg losing a lot of weight rapidly). Bodies naturally fluctuate over time and I’m sure everyone knows themselves if they gain or lose weight at any given time so don’t need to be made even more aware of that in front of a whole class. As has been said before, when you watch a production you don’t look for the slimmest dancer, you look at who is truly expressing their role and you become drawn into their performance. With the amount that dancers in vocational schools are exercising, no one will ever be ‘big’!

 

In regards to mental health, there are so many CPD courses out there that are available for teachers to do. I feel that this should be compulsory for any teacher/institution to do annually to keep up to date with current guidelines as well as regular safeguarding training. Things have to be CURRENT. For both vocational and local schools. All anyone wants is for their child to be safe and to grow up confident in their abilities and keep doing what they love, it’s not easy and they work so hard.
 

if you flash forward 50 years, is there necessarily going to be a need in the performing world to have very thin dancers? Dance is all about expression and communication, not body shape. 
 

Lots of teachers out there who were ex-dancers may love ballet, but don’t love teaching. That’s where things can go wrong. If you genuinely love teaching, as I do, seeing a child bring their best into each class and develop as a person is the most rewarding thing. Unfortunately, some people just don’t see that. 
 

I’d like to reassure everyone that teacher training is different now. There is much more emphasis on inclusivity and general joy of dancing for young people. I, of course, can only speak from my own experience but I was taught by a few teachers of ‘that generation’ where I do have some upsetting memories from and I strive in my own teaching practices to make everyone feel like they are a valued member of the class. I just feel that it will be a long old time before younger teachers like me would even be considered to teach at these vocational schools. 
 

(I know a few things have been repeated earlier on in the thread but I’ve been thinking about posting for a while and just wanted to get everything I was thinking out! Thank you for taking the time to read)

A great post En Avant - thank you!

it also got me thinking about teacher training & maybe it’s time the training bodies look to see if their fast track training of former professional dancers is perhaps not in anyones best interests anymore. How can a course that’s only perhaps six weeks or mostly distance learning replace the more intense 3-5 years? 
No wonder so many former pro dancers now teachers lean on their own historical experience & seem to in many cases replicate the training they themselves had. And so an unhappy legacy persists….

Just to add…. Some former pro dancers are excellent, safe, current & nurturing in their teaching practises - even sone deity no formal dance qualifications. I do think that we cannot assume a great dancer always will make a great teacher…. 
How many of us would consider ourselves to be a great driver but wouid recoil at the responsibility a driving instructor takes on….

 

[Jan McNulty]

Just a reminder that cross-posting is not allowed.

[Jan McNulty]

Christie (Duncan) Bell has given me her permission to post a link to her IG reel.

 

Christie trained at White Lodge and Central and enjoyed a successful career at Northern Ballet.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CxIHsMqsBKP/

[Ondine]

5 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

Just a reminder that cross-posting is not allowed.

 

One thread has been split into two or I'd have posted it only on one, and so relevant to both really which I why I posted on both,  though I suggest discussion carries on here now we are 'post Panorama'. It's such a serious issue with real life consequences. 

 

I'm assuming that all the information given to the LADO and police investigation which was raised in the 2021 thread is still on file. I'm assuming that if further evidence comes to light that can be re-opened, though who knows?

 

 

[Jan McNulty]

It was not necessary to post on both - it is just flooding the board with, admittedly important, data that then gets discussed in several places.

[Ruby Foo]

1 hour ago, Peanut68 said:

A great post En Avant - thank you!

it also got me thinking about teacher training & maybe it’s time the training bodies look to see if their fast track training of former professional dancers is perhaps not in anyones best interests anymore. How can a course that’s only perhaps six weeks or mostly distance learning replace the more intense 3-5 years? 
No wonder so many former pro dancers now teachers lean on their own historical experience & seem to in many cases replicate the training they themselves had. And so an unhappy legacy persists….

Just to add…. Some former pro dancers are excellent, safe, current & nurturing in their teaching practises - even sone deity no formal dance qualifications. I do think that we cannot assume a great dancer always will make a great teacher…. 
How many of us would consider ourselves to be a great driver but wouid recoil at the responsibility a driving instructor takes on….

 

 
Thanks Peanut for making the point far more lucidly than me!

[Ondine]

It all reminds me of Larkin's This Be The Verse, substitute  (some) ballet teachers instead of your mum and dad.

 

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/48419/this-be-the-verse

 

 

 

 

[LinMM]

Thanks for sharing Christie’s post Janet ……what a lovely young lady! 
Im not on Instagram but luckily the video worked for me. 
 

An ex Royal Ballet dancer of some years back now has written a great response to the programme for the Oxford Writers about Dance. 
She posted it to a Whats App group I’m in ( another ex RBS student who is now a great and positive teacher and helped get us through lockdown!) 

I will ask her if I can post the link here as it’s a wide ranging and uplifting Piece. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by LinMM

[taxi4ballet]

6 hours ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

I remember years ago my DD was in a summer intensive and I chanced upon a group of mums in the waiting room chatting. Their daughters were in one of the schools featured in the documentary, and were in one of the older groups of the intensive. They were all worried about their daughters’ attitudes towards food and eating in general at the time. I remember distinctly like it was just yesterday, though this was a good few years ago, what one of the mums told me: “Oh they’re all at it at school. It’s just moving from one bizarre diet to another but constantly being on some strange diet.”  The whole talk hinted at competitive dieting in such a small, enclosed environment - who can be skinniest, who can have the longest lines. That conversation stayed with me for years and whilst my DD has never been in full time vocational school, since then I’ve been so vigilant in subtly looking out for warning signs. Thankfully so far, knock on wood, she’s not the type to even think about it. She doesn’t have the textbook ideal diet but I think a big part of how it’s a non-issue for her (and often oblivious that eating issues exist) is because she has very distinctively separate dance and ‘normal teenager’ lives. I remember one time we were walking towards her associates class and she was eating a burger having just come from another class. We rounded the corner and I saw some of her peers snacking on healthy bars. I told her to go back around the corner as I was embarrassed she was eating ‘junk food’. She marched on ahead and said to me “I’ve just been dancing for two hours. I need the energy.”  I was told later that she even broke out some cake in the change room and shared it around. In that moment, I did think my DD had a more normal attitude towards food than me and I felt ashamed. It might be a controversial decision but my husband refused to let our DD watch the programme. His fear was that despite numerous talks and lessons on healthy eating in their (normal, non-vocational school), our DD is still quite naive and innocent about how prevalent these can be in the dance world.  He didn’t want to bring the topic to the forefront of her mind when it never has. 

Your post reminds me of something I witnessed at Tring first-hand. While my dd was still a recreational dancer, she used to attend their dance days and workshops. At one of them, to which parents were invited to observe class, there was a long table in the main building full of tea, coffee, and piles of cakes and biscuits. We had all eaten our fill, and while we waited to be called in to watch our kids, a class of teenage full-timers burst out of their studio, charged along the corridor on the way to their next class and helped themselves to the offerings on the table as they went. It was like a plague of locusts had descended, and there was very little left after they'd gone. I wondered whether they were allowed to help themselves to food laid out for visitors, looked at a member of staff standing by me and she said with a grin:  "They burn off a lot of energy, they need it!". That left me feeling very positive that at that school at least, there was a healthy attitude towards eating.

[Neverdancedjustamum]

4 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

Your post reminds me of something I witnessed at Tring first-hand. While my dd was still a recreational dancer, she used to attend their dance days and workshops. At one of them, to which parents were invited to observe class, there was a long table in the main building full of tea, coffee, and piles of cakes and biscuits. We had all eaten our fill, and while we waited to be called in to watch our kids, a class of teenage full-timers burst out of their studio, charged along the corridor on the way to their next class and helped themselves to the offerings on the table as they went. It was like a plague of locusts had descended, and there was very little left after they'd gone. I wondered whether they were allowed to help themselves to food laid out for visitors, looked at a member of staff standing by me and she said with a grin:  "They burn off a lot of energy, they need it!". That left me feeling very positive that at that school at least, there was a healthy attitude towards eating.

I remember those days! My DD used to attend CBA in Tring and years ago they used to put out coffee and tea and biscuits! Even back then, my DD must have been about 8, it was always the highlight for her. She used to try and get a handful of biscuits (only her!) until I warned her there were other CBA students and parents who might want some too. Some of her fondest memories are also of TPA on Saturdays when there would be a little table top cafe/shop set up by the waiting area where all the kids and parents used to buy snacks and drinks. My DD always remembers these lovely memories, as do I. TPA in particular, in our personal experience, had a very happy and nurturing vibe to it. I didn’t get a sense of competitiveness or favouritism, no drama. I digress but yes, those were positive and happy memories of that school. We don’t have experience of the full time school so cannot comment on that side of it.

[Tulip]

2 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

Your post reminds me of something I witnessed at Tring first-hand. While my dd was still a recreational dancer, she used to attend their dance days and workshops. At one of them, to which parents were invited to observe class, there was a long table in the main building full of tea, coffee, and piles of cakes and biscuits. We had all eaten our fill, and while we waited to be called in to watch our kids, a class of teenage full-timers burst out of their studio, charged along the corridor on the way to their next class and helped themselves to the offerings on the table as they went. It was like a plague of locusts had descended, and there was very little left after they'd gone. I wondered whether they were allowed to help themselves to food laid out for visitors, looked at a member of staff standing by me and she said with a grin:  "They burn off a lot of energy, they need it!". That left me feeling very positive that at that school at least, there was a healthy attitude towards eating.

 

 

Unfortunately not. I raised concerns to the director at the time about my daughter losing too much weight. She made me out to be a nuisance, and quote ‘what is the problem, I’m very busy’. I made her listen, but after that, she did everything in her power to make my daughters life uncomfortable. Thank goodness a few teachers there supported and looked out for my daughter. 
I tried to pull my daughter out of that school, but she begged and begged to stay, as she wanted the training. 

[Jewel]

My child attended a summer school at Tring.  When we picked her up she declared that she was starving, there hadn't been enough food and the portions were really tiny & they were not allowed seconds, so could we please take her for something to eat. (she was already full time at another school by that point, the Tring SS was to see if she wanted to apply for Upper School)

[Neverdancedjustamum]

It’s funny how experiences differ. My DD found the food on offer plentiful during one of Tring’s previous Easter intensives. She was warned by many that it is at White Lodge summer intensive that she’d need to bring snacks as the food wasn’t enough. She attended WL SI and said the food was wonderful and there was lots of it! She said she usually had 2 plates of food and one bowl of pudding every meal. I think she made the staff very happy with her appetite.

[windover60]

Im aware that there have now been many responses on here to Panorama and BBC sounds but felt compelled to add my contribution having been deeply moved but not surprised by both programmes. Its taken a while to formulate my response to make it acceptable ! My DD left WL in 2015 and experienced many of the issues that other members are expressing. First of all I must stress that in my opinion neither programme was sensationalist – the young people taking part have been so brave and I feel for every one of them and their parents. Several were in my daughter’s cohort or nearby years and sadly I have to say that their names and situations could have been substituted by many more, my dd included. It is testament to this forum that so many others have come forward to prove that these are not isolated cases. I can only speak for our position when I say that ‘emotional abuse’ is difficult to prove and quantify, particularly when you are 11 and it is perceived to be part of the system. For my dd, it was not an eating disorder but emotional abuse about her body image ‘her ugly legs’ were often referred to by the teacher to shame her in class and then as she was beaten down over the years, it was ‘you are not trying’ or as was said to us in parents meeting ‘shes lost the fire in her belly’. We had no idea how bad things were until afterwards as much was kept amongst the students for fear of being assessed out. My dd did not want us to complain and we abided by her wish to avoid further upset and bullying. Those students/parents who were ‘favourites’ must have witnessed this happening to others and aware of  the eating disorders, emotional abuse and self harm that was occurring even though they could honestly say they had only had positive experiences. Like others, I could give many more examples. After leaving, my dd was not able to attend school for two terms, needed professional psychological support and medication for several years, and has ongoing issues with her mental health. However, she is now much more like her former self, is about to complete her third year at University and is enjoying dance again as recreation. Her experience at Rbs has taken its toll on all of us, but finally feels like a distant memory. 

I also just wanted to respond to a few other points that have been mentioned. 

We did contact the LADDO/Westminster safeguarding when this was raised as a possibility. My dd was told they were not investigating historical cases as needed concrete evidence of dates and times. Obviously this is not possible several years down the line. She was interviewed by itv a few years ago about bullying in ballet schools, she also wrote an article for The Sunday Times and Guardian after this, but nothing came of either project and we are not sure why. This in itself was distressing as it  is harrowing to retell your experiences. She has not been able to watch or listen to either programme as the synopsis induced panic attacks and she does not want to relive it anymore. 

After my dd left we did write to the rbs governors/trustees as one of the issues of my dds final assessment was that she was not scored. As my husband and I worked in education where assessments have to be evidenced robustly, we questioned this. We were told that this was as she was recovering from injury and they knew she would fail. The AD said they could reassess but the outcome would be the same ie assessed out. Other injured pupils were scored so we brought the assessment procedure up with the governors. We heard nothing and a follow up phone call did not shed any light on the matter. In my opinion this is another example of rbs bullying and being untouchable. A mainstream school would not be able to do this (on another note the independent inspections are not robust and pupils are carefully chosen to speak to inspectors etc) I hope there are now robust assessment criteria in place.

Finally, the whistleblowing phone line has been set up by rbs and although has ‘independent experts’ manning the lines, it is not clear whether the school is monitoring it also. I may be cynical, but this may be a way of complaints ‘disappearing’ rather than being published for public view. Too little too late in my opinion. I would urge people to also send written copies to Mark Daly and other places ( I need to look back to see what these are )mentioned on the forum to ensure they remain accountable. Sorry for the long post !

[Whiteduvet]

My child was at Tring (she has since left for reasons not to do with the school). They ate very well there in our experience: lots of filling meals and snacks available (and eaten). Sunday brunch for example was a big highlight. One thing we liked about the school which the RBS and Elmhurst lack, is its diversity: the dancers there mingle with children on the acting course and so are used to seeing people with much more varied body sizes and shapes than when only ballet dancers are present.  

[taxi4ballet]

26 minutes ago, Jewel said:

My child attended a summer school at Tring.  When we picked her up she declared that she was starving, there hadn't been enough food and the portions were really tiny & they were not allowed seconds, so could we please take her for something to eat. (she was already full time at another school by that point, the Tring SS was to see if she wanted to apply for Upper School)

That's interesting, because my dd did quite a few of their residentials - Easter and Christmas ones mostly, probably around 8 of them spread over several years, including NYB one year and a Cecchetti summer school as well. She never mentioned anything like that at all.

[Ruby Foo]

24 minutes ago, Whiteduvet said:

My child was at Tring (she has since left for reasons not to do with the school). They ate very well there in our experience: lots of filling meals and snacks available (and eaten). Sunday brunch for example was a big highlight. One thing we liked about the school which the RBS and Elmhurst lack, is its diversity: the dancers there mingle with children on the acting course and so are used to seeing people with much more varied body sizes and shapes than when only ballet dancers are present.  

I second this. There is diversity and an energy within this school that we haven’t experienced anywhere else.

[Ruby Foo]

4 minutes ago, Ruby Foo said:

I second this. There is diversity and an energy within this school that we haven’t experienced anywhere else.

I apologise to those who haven’t had this experience at this establishment 

[Drdee]

In email correspondence with Mark Daly, whilst he not sure if the BBC will do another documentary, he thinks it might be able to do some follow ups for news or the website.   He is happy for dancers to email him mark.daly@bbc.co.uk. I am sure that parents could write on their behalf it this is too traumatic (my thoughts).

[Ruby Foo]

49 minutes ago, windover60 said:

 

Im aware that there have now been many responses on here to Panorama and BBC sounds but felt compelled to add my contribution having been deeply moved but not surprised by both programmes. Its taken a while to formulate my response to make it acceptable ! My DD left WL in 2015 and experienced many of the issues that other members are expressing. First of all I must stress that in my opinion neither programme was sensationalist – the young people taking part have been so brave and I feel for every one of them and their parents. Several were in my daughter’s cohort or nearby years and sadly I have to say that their names and situations could have been substituted by many more, my dd included. It is testament to this forum that so many others have come forward to prove that these are not isolated cases. I can only speak for our position when I say that ‘emotional abuse’ is difficult to prove and quantify, particularly when you are 11 and it is perceived to be part of the system. For my dd, it was not an eating disorder but emotional abuse about her body image ‘her ugly legs’ were often referred to by the teacher to shame her in class and then as she was beaten down over the years, it was ‘you are not trying’ or as was said to us in parents meeting ‘shes lost the fire in her belly’. We had no idea how bad things were until afterwards as much was kept amongst the students for fear of being assessed out. My dd did not want us to complain and we abided by her wish to avoid further upset and bullying. Those students/parents who were ‘favourites’ must have witnessed this happening to others and aware of  the eating disorders, emotional abuse and self harm that was occurring even though they could honestly say they had only had positive experiences. Like others, I could give many more examples. After leaving, my dd was not able to attend school for two terms, needed professional psychological support and medication for several years, and has ongoing issues with her mental health. However, she is now much more like her former self, is about to complete her third year at University and is enjoying dance again as recreation. Her experience at Rbs has taken its toll on all of us, but finally feels like a distant memory. 

I also just wanted to respond to a few other points that have been mentioned. 

We did contact the LADDO/Westminster safeguarding when this was raised as a possibility. My dd was told they were not investigating historical cases as needed concrete evidence of dates and times. Obviously this is not possible several years down the line. She was interviewed by itv a few years ago about bullying in ballet schools, she also wrote an article for The Sunday Times and Guardian after this, but nothing came of either project and we are not sure why. This in itself was distressing as it  is harrowing to retell your experiences. She has not been able to watch or listen to either programme as the synopsis induced panic attacks and she does not want to relive it anymore. 

After my dd left we did write to the rbs governors/trustees as one of the issues of my dds final assessment was that she was not scored. As my husband and I worked in education where assessments have to be evidenced robustly, we questioned this. We were told that this was as she was recovering from injury and they knew she would fail. The AD said they could reassess but the outcome would be the same ie assessed out. Other injured pupils were scored so we brought the assessment procedure up with the governors. We heard nothing and a follow up phone call did not shed any light on the matter. In my opinion this is another example of rbs bullying and being untouchable. A mainstream school would not be able to do this (on another note the independent inspections are not robust and pupils are carefully chosen to speak to inspectors etc) I hope there are now robust assessment criteria in place.

Finally, the whistleblowing phone line has been set up by rbs and although has ‘independent experts’ manning the lines, it is not clear whether the school is monitoring it also. I may be cynical, but this may be a way of complaints ‘disappearing’ rather than being published for public view. Too little too late in my opinion. I would urge people to also send written copies to Mark Daly and other places ( I need to look back to see what these are )mentioned on the forum to ensure they remain accountable. Sorry for the long post !

While I find myself in disbelief at the ‘no marks at the assessment’ part, there is also no surprise. Other pupils who were injured were given a mark but not your dd? Was she wearing an invisibility cloak while she was there?
 

When you enquire to see what’s going on, no one can be bothered to get back to you…..

 

This is the kind of arrogance I have witnessed in some politicians over the years. 
 

Making up your own rules, answering to nobody.

 

Thank you for posting as with everyone else’s posts. I can empathise with most. It is not easy, any of it

[Ballet.Parent]

3 hours ago, Ruby Foo said:

While I find myself in disbelief at the ‘no marks at the assessment’ part, there is also no surprise. Other pupils who were injured were given a mark but not your dd? Was she wearing an invisibility cloak while she was there?
 

When you enquire to see what’s going on, no one can be bothered to get back to you…..

 

This is the kind of arrogance I have witnessed in some politicians over the years. 
 

Making up your own rules, answering to nobody.

 

Thank you for posting as with everyone else’s posts. I can empathise with most. It is not easy, any of it

Talking of arrogance and a complete lack of sensitivity …Elmhurst have just posted photos on Twitter of their healthy meals as if to prove a point which I feel is just a big two fingers up to the brave students and parents who shared their story on Panorama. It’s not the food that’s the problem… it’s the way the children are made to feel if they eat it!

Edited September 14, 2023 by Ballet.Parent
Missed out a word

[windover60]

As well as Mark Daly, this e mail address may be useful to those who are responding to the panorama programme - dnocivelli@leighday.co.uk. They are keen to gather nos of students over the years to keep the investigation ongoing. Hopefully this will lead somewhere and won’t simply disappear. Simply copying into your e mail to Mark is enough.