Royal Ballet Firebird/In the Night/Raymonda Act III bill

[tim b]

I believe there is a perennial argument about the good taste of Raymonda's claps - loud like a pistol shot hopefully in time with the music or an almost soundless brushing across of the hands? My recollection is that it may even have been debated earlier in this forum I do recall watching Patricia Ruanne coach this solo in a large class at the Yorkshire Ballet Seminars and her explanation for many things in the variation was fascinating eg., the facts that historically Raymonda was over 70 at her wedding and quite possibly a bit squiffy from "the drink" was the basis of the way many of the steps & port de bras might be executed Others may know more - it would be interesting to hear

[alison]

A posting elsewhere from billboyd has reminded me of something else I'd intended to mention in relation to this bill: In the Night suffers greatly from "proscenium-arch-itis". Both times I've seen it in this run - both from what should have been full-view seats on the amphitheatre sides - several of the male (usually) dancers have actually been dancing behind the proscenium arch, and have therefore been pretty much invisible to more of the audience than they should be. And there have been some lifts where all I've seen has been the lower leg and a pointe shoe. I realise that some of the choreography does indeed involve weaving in and out of the wings (or at least, I assume so, because I haven't been able to see it yet!), but would have thought that it wasn't vital for other parts of the choreography to be executed so far to the side of the stage. I suspect that this has contributed to my finding the work bitty.

[Jane S]

Could someone who saw Acosta in In the Night please tell what costume he wore? - a very dark one, like Kobborg's, or the more usual lighter-coloured one?

[jm365]

My understanding of the 'claps' in Raymonda are that they are supposed to represent the brushing of finger cymbals - hence not very appropriate to make them really loud. I don't know if any dancers have ever worn such cymbals?

 

I did enjoy this triple bill very much indeed at the Saturday matinee.

[aileen]

I've said this elsewhere, but I really wish that the companies would get someone to sit in various places in the auditorium during one of the rehearsals so that they can give feedback on what the audience's viewing experience will be like. You expect to miss out on some of the scenery from certain positions, and some of the corps dancing too, but pdds should really be visible to most of the audience most of the time, IMO. The same goes for lighting. Quite a few of the performances which I have been to (not just at the ROH) have been too dark for me from higher up in the auditorium.

[alison]

Could someone who saw Acosta in In the Night please tell what costume he wore? - a very dark one, like Kobborg's, or the more usual lighter-coloured one?

 

Black, the same as Kobborg.

 

I've said this elsewhere, but I really wish that the companies would get someone to sit in various places in the auditorium during one of the rehearsals so that they can give feedback on what the audience's viewing experience will be like. You expect to miss out on some of the scenery from certain positions, and some of the corps dancing too, but pdds should really be visible to most of the audience most of the time, IMO. The same goes for lighting. Quite a few of the performances which I have been to (not just at the ROH) have been too dark for me from higher up in the auditorium.

 

So do I, and/or that the dancers would be more aware of where they are on the stage at times (Romeo & Juliet, for example, is a major culprit: in Act I, in the first marketplace scene and in the ballroom, you often have major characters disappearing behind the arch stage right, even Romeo when he's sitting on his cloak, sometimes).

 

And yes, the lighting is another problem. It's been particularly bad at Sadler's Wells, where I often struggle to identify dancers' faces at all, and in ENB's current Nutcracker, ditto (even from the front of the Balcony, which isn't that far from the stage), but I was definitely struggling with it in some aspects of this bill (for example, on Saturday, even with opera glasses, I mis-identified one of the dancers in the "footlights" row in Firebird, and was having difficult in reading the expressions on Marquez' and Acosta's faces during In the Night. Of course, I am aware that as you get older you need more light to see the same amount of detail anyway, but this seemed a bit more than just that.

[Beryl H]

This low level lighting has been a problem at the ballet for years and seems to be getting worse, I'm sure it looks worse from higher up, but the stage should be well enough lit for everyone in the auditorium to see. I thought Firebird and In the Night were indistinct on Saturday, what a difference when the curtain went up for Raymonda, the only thing I didn't like here was that from the upper amphi the patterned stage clashed with the dancers' costumes. The first pdd of In the Night was the worst(apparently dancers call this ballet In the Dark) and the third pdd has shafts of light, which was better.

 

 

[GTL]

My understanding of the 'claps' in Raymonda are that they are supposed to represent the brushing of finger cymbals - hence not very appropriate to make them really loud. I don't know if any dancers have ever worn such cymbals?

I saw Antoinette Sibley dance this wonderfully with Nureyev and the RB. I think she might have done it this way, i remember fluttering fingers rather than claps. I also saw Sylvie Guillem dance it spectacularly but, rather incongruously, she appeared not to be wearing any tights with her sparkly white tutu.

[zxDaveM]

The same goes for lighting. Quite a few of the performances which I have been to (not just at the ROH) have been too dark for me from higher up in the auditorium.

 

with you all the way on that - try photographing them!! :-(

[Anjuli_Bai]

There is a beautiful you tube of Makarova dancing this variation. She definitely brushes the palms rather than claps them. This dance is called the "classical variation" and generally speaking in classical dance there is no clapping. Clapping is more evident in folk dance.

 

There is also a youtube of Guillem dancing this and she changes the entire look of it such as stepping up to pointe with an undulating movement in the hip. For me, that is bizarre in a classical tutu. She also snaps into the various hand/arm positions which I find jarring.

[alison]

There is also a youtube of Guillem dancing this and she changes the entire look of it such as stepping up to pointe with an undulating movement in the hip. For me, that is bizarre in a classical tutu. She also snaps into the various hand/arm positions which I find jarring.

 

Yes, now you mention it, I remember that. I don't think Yanowsky's been doing that.

[Balletomane]

My first post. Still getting the hang of this!

 

I saw the matinée last Saturday and really enjoyed this triple bill.

I agree with others on the subject of lighting though. The Firebird in particular suffered from some very indistinct lighting at times. I also felt the orchestra had some patchy moments in this.

Sad to hear Nuñez was injured, but Hikaru Kobayashi was beautiful.

It was my first experience of Raymonda Act 3 and I thought it was spectacular.

Best wishes to all for a happy New Year.

 

[alison]

You're doing very well, Balletomane - and welcome.

[Sim]

I totally agree with comments above about the general trend for dark lighting these days. I was under the impression that the reason to go and watch live performance is to be able to do just that....watch it. I often struggle, even with my strong binoculars, to distinguish things happening onstage. And when a male dancer wears dark tights, I often just see what looks like a disjointed torso flying around the stage (especially in the prince's Act 3 variation in the RB Swan Lake). This is nothing to do with myopia or age; it is simply that the current fashion seems to be for semi-darkness. Come on directors and lighting folks....please think again. There are marvelous dancers out there and we actually want to SEE them, strange though this may seem.....

 

OK rant over. Wishing you all a very happy, healthy and fun New Year!

[Anjuli_Bai]

I have been railing about male dancers costumed in black for - well, decades. There ARE other colors - blue, gray, silver, brown, etc.

 

I imagine a costume designer sitting in front of a sketchbook thinking long and hard about creating a costume for a male dancer.

 

Suddenly this blinding white brain storm explodes in his/her brain:

 

"Voila! I've got it! I'll make the costume in black! What a wildly new idea!"

 

I am convinced these people don't watch what they've created in performance.

 

(Same for films/documentaries on TV in which the music overwhelms the dialogue. And, no, it doesn't have to do with my age. People younger than I tell me they turn on the subtitles. The people who create these films must never listen to the finished product. The History channel is especially guilty but by no means alone.)

[Barry]

I am totally mystified I thought the orchestra and I gave a fine performance on Saturday afternoon, perhaps Mrs BBB and Balletomane can explain what the problems were. Oh and Happy New Year everyone.

[Barry]

PS........ We are also very concerned about the ammount of noise during Stravinsky's magnificent Prelude to Firebird. It would help if members of the audience could stifle their coughs, with a hand or even a handkerchief.

 

Barry Wordsworth

Music Director

[John Mallinson]

A posting elsewhere from billboyd has reminded me of something else I'd intended to mention in relation to this bill: In the Night suffers greatly from "proscenium-arch-itis". … I realise that some of the choreography does indeed involve weaving in and out of the wings (or at least, I assume so, because I haven't been able to see it yet!), but would have thought that it wasn't vital for other parts of the choreography to be executed so far to the side of the stage. I suspect that this has contributed to my finding the work bitty.

Seems to me that In the Night is especially problematic as Robbins uses the wings rather differently from most ballets - the exits and entrances, some of which barely encroach on the stage, are more meaningful than usual and need to be seen. Don't know how you get round this in a horseshoe auditorium. Maybe it's better in New York.

[zxDaveM]

PS........ We are also very concerned about the ammount of noise during Stravinsky's magnificent Prelude to Firebird. It would help if members of the audience could stifle their coughs, with a hand or even a handkerchief.

 

Barry Wordsworth

Music Director

 

Many of us agree Barry - and have commented as much, earlier in the thread. It also annoys many of us, that if there is no dancing whilst music being played, the music ignored and talked over (e.g. during Sleeping Beauty between acts)

[stucha]

With regard to the clap in the Raymonda variation. In the documentary on the POB Raymonda which Nureyev set on the company in the early 80s when he took over the directorship, Elisabeth Platel talks of the "infamous clap". Apparently Nureyev required that the dancer made an audible clap in that variation. Which is perhaps why Sylvie Guillem did it that way. When the POB subsequently toured Raymonda to Russia, the clap generated great controversy as the Russian tradition requires a soundless clap. Platel implies that debate is still going on.

What Nureyev required in the RB Act lll Raymonda I am not aware, as this predated the POB version by some years. Perhaps the repetiteurs or coaches could enlighten us.

[billboyd]

Seems to me that In the Night is especially problematic as Robbins uses the wings rather differently from most ballets - the exits and entrances, some of which barely encroach on the stage, are more meaningful than usual and need to be seen. Don't know how you get round this in a horseshoe auditorium. Maybe it's better in New York.

 

I don't think we had this problem to the same extent when the Bolshoi did it. And I don't think we had the blinding light from the pianist's music.

[tim b]

Yes I too am with Clement Crisp when he calls for "more light; more light" in pretty much everything and what does one want to watch generally in dance? - legs & feet - that's why Rudolf usually wore white tights even for the Black Act of Swan Lake

 

There is a (maybe apocryphal) story that when he needed a black pair during the filming of Don Q in Australia he did not possess any and had to borrow a pair from his ballerina Lucette Aldous

[Bruce Wall]

I well remember Cynthia Gregory's almighty claps in performances of Nureyev's Raymonda - and the magnificent performances by Fernando Bujones as her partner. I also remember one New Year's Eve where Ms. Gregory chose to do the clapping solo whilst smoking a cigar. A different kind of balance methinks.

[John Mallinson]

I don't think we had this problem to the same extent when the Bolshoi did it. And I don't think we had the blinding light from the pianist's music.

Mariinsky 2011, but no I don't remember being bothered. What a gorgeous programme that was: Scotch Symphony, In the Night (with Lopatkina's long limbs flailing in the third couple), Ballet Imperial.

[tim b]

meunier - wow - I would have loved to have seen that

 

I have been told Makarova would smoke a cigarette in rehearsal while standing on point on one leg with the other positioned somewhere alongside her right ear!!

[Sim]

PS........ We are also very concerned about the ammount of noise during Stravinsky's magnificent Prelude to Firebird. It would help if members of the audience could stifle their coughs, with a hand or even a handkerchief.

 

Barry Wordsworth

Music Director

 

Barry, welcome to balletcoForum. How delightful to see you posting up with the 'view from the pit', as it were. Please keep it coming....and a very Happy New Year to you too.

[Don Q Fan]

A little late to the party = I enjoyed Saturday's matinee very much - Firebird and Raymonda were my favourite pieces. I then carried on across the Channel to Paris and now after seeing a rather dumbed down (Nureyev) DonQ and an interminable Forsythe/Brown Quad Bill (apart from Middle) it made me appreciate what I saw on Saturday all the more. I'd love to see it again but I think the run is short and sold out. Pity that Marianela was out. I agree the hand claps in Raymonda should have been a lot louder - BRB do it loud and it is much more effective. As usual stunning costumes and sets at RB.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Don Q Fan

[MrsBBB]

I am totally mystified I thought the orchestra and I gave a fine performance on Saturday afternoon, perhaps Mrs BBB and Balletomane can explain what the problems were.

 

Happy new year and welcome to Balletcoforum Maestro!

 

I thought that the sections of the orchestra weren't always together in the Firebird at the Saturday matinée and there was one noticeable wrong horn entry. That said, the quality of music at RB performances is usually extremely high thanks to you and the ROH orchestra and we're very spoilt compared to other companies in that respect.

[alison]

Mariinsky 2011,

 

I *thought* it was the Mariinsky, but someone else said it was the Bolshoi, so I copied them!

[tim b]

Wondering Don Q Fan why you felt the Don Q was dumbed down? Certainly you did not get the "etoile studded" cast which maybe was being saved for the N Yrs Eve "gala" next night but I have been told by others who visited earlier in the month that it was the usual production - shall I look out for your thoughts on the Don Q in Paris thread where we discussed before?

[Barry]

Dear Mrs BBB, Thank you for telling me what was troubling you, and for your warm appreciation of the orchestra's part in the performance. We play the original orchestration of Firebird to match the production, so there are more than 80 players in the pit. It is very crowded, and we even have to open up the areas at either side under the stalls circle in order to accomodate all the players. The Trumpets and Trombones sit on my far right, and the Horns sit on my far left, as far apart as they could be in fact, and they play across the pit (In the concert Hall they would sit along the back wall and play facing toward the audience, but the pit is not deep enough to allow us to do that ) They cannot hear each other when they start to play, and if they are a fraction of a second out in passages where they double each other's themes ( as in The Infernal Dance) you get that sort of ricochet effect which I agree is very disturbing. We have tried different seating arrangements but all have their own drawbacks. I mention all this to try to explain why this happens from time to time. It is honestly absolutely not a question of anyone having an "off" day, and to be frank given the circumstances it is only the players expertise that stops this from happening far more often.

[Balletomane]

I am totally mystified I thought the orchestra and I gave a fine performance on Saturday afternoon, perhaps Mrs BBB and Balletomane can explain what the problems were. Oh and Happy New Year everyone.

 

Dear Barry

I felt there were some slight ensemble problems in places during The firebird but I see you have already replied to Mrs BBB. Very interesting to hear of the problems the players face in the orchestra pit due to a lack of space. My aural experience on the 29th may also have been down to my position in the auditorium as I attended the general rehearsal on the 20th December and the sound was very different.

I did not intend my comment to be a general criticism of the playing. I am usually bowled over in admiration of the orchestral playing for the Royal Ballet. A particular highlight for me recently was hearing the wonderful Frank Martin Harpsichord Concerto in Las Hermanas.

Wishing you a Happy New Year.

[Barry]

Thank you for your welcome Sim. I really do hope it is interesting and useful for everyone to hear the musicians perspective. The more understanding there is the better for all of us.

 

Balletomane has highlighted another feature of our auditorium........the orchestral sound is indeed very different from place to place in the auditorium, both in terms of balance and ensemble. Perhaps the Science of Acoustics wasn't so well understood when this theatre was built. My favourite seat is at the rear of the stalls, or the front of the amphitheatre. The sound is generally well focused there, and it has a glorious bloom on it.

 

Best Wishes to everyone for 2013.

 

Barry Wordsworth