Graduates 2021

[Justkeepsmiling]

2 hours ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

Having a Trinity Diploma level 6 still allows you to apply for student finance etc so you can go on and do a Degree at university. So if anyone is panicking about further education, don’t, you still have options post vocational training x

Does this still apply to student finance if they received a DaDA?

Edited February 11, 2021 by Justkeepsmiling
Typo

[Lifeafterballet]

17 minutes ago, Justkeepsmiling said:

Does this still apply to student finance if they received a DaDA?

Both mine had Dadas and obtained the Diploma. The school has said that because they never did the extra modules to turn it into a full degree and the Dada funding isn’t student financed, different pot, they are entitled to funding. Every student that has left the school after 6:3, whether Dada funded or self payers have obtained student finance at University ☺️

[Justkeepsmiling]

2 hours ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

3 hours ago, Justkeepsmiling said:

 

Both mine had Dadas and obtained the Diploma. The school has said that because they never did the extra modules to turn it into a full degree and the Dada funding isn’t student financed, different pot, they are entitled to funding. Every student that has left the school after 6:3, whether Dada funded or self payers have obtained student finance at University ☺️

Thank you 😃

[Pirouette]

8 hours ago, Jewel said:

Some companies will allow non Eu residents to audition and are willing to pay for visas.  However we have already seen several Spotlight breakdowns that specify that only EU passport holders can apply.

In the case of auditions held and/or advertisements placed in the UK specifying that only EU passport holders can apply/no Brits, I read a comment from a barrister when the ad casting for a non-UK actor to play Prince William came out - he was of the opinion that this is illegal based on case law as it is discriminatory.  Whether this holds true or not, it does seem unreasonable for UK nationals to be barred from auditions held or advertised in their own country.  

 

It will be interesting to see whether anyone brings a case against UK ads/auditions/companies for intentionally excluding UK performers, as this problem seems to be becoming increasingly common.   

 

I also imagine it will have negative implications for access, diversity and representation across the arts if this practice is allowed to continue.  

 

Obviously auditions held abroad, by EU companies are a separate issue.  Regarding access to those, it would be nice if the dance schools and companies followed the music industry's example by campaigning on dancers' behalf.  

[Jewel]

The auditions were advertised by a UK based casting director who had been contracted by an EU based employer. 

[Pirouette]

28 minutes ago, Jewel said:

The auditions were advertised by a UK based casting director who had been contracted by an EU based employer. 

If that is the case, it would surely have been more appropriate to contract an EU based casting director to advertise in Europe where potential discrimination would not be an issue.  

Edited February 11, 2021 by Pirouette
to clarify last sentence.

[Loulou]

My dd also graduates this year,  her school however are looking at the possibility of a 4th year due to lack of practical training as an option.  She is also fortunate to have an Irish passport as her Dad is Irish and we applied last year,  it came fairly quickly.  I'm also encouraging her to look at MA's, encouraging her interest in photography and she will qualify as a RAD teacher this summer,  think its a case of exploring all income streams possible and all options out there,  but its so hard.  We have had lots of "what's the point " conversations. Can see us funding her in some way for at least another 12 months

[balletbean]

On 13/02/2021 at 17:45, Loulou said:

My dd also graduates this year,  her school however are looking at the possibility of a 4th year due to lack of practical training as an option.  She is also fortunate to have an Irish passport as her Dad is Irish and we applied last year,  it came fairly quickly.  I'm also encouraging her to look at MA's, encouraging her interest in photography and she will qualify as a RAD teacher this summer,  think its a case of exploring all income streams possible and all options out there,  but its so hard.  We have had lots of "what's the point " conversations. Can see us funding her in some way for at least another 12 months

Thank you for adding your view point. I’ve ‘suggested’ the MA route but my DD just doesn’t want to have to do any more essays!! Bless ‘er. So a dissertation is probably not on the cards 😉. The other point she raised is that she’s desperate to perform (like everyone else) so sitting in a classroom for an MA whilst watching some of her current cohort performing might just be the straw that breaks the camels back. Having survived the current restrictions. 
A yr can be a very long time if they really heart of hearts don’t want to be there. I just wish I had a degree in Hindsight to know what’s best for her. 😞

[2dancersmum]

I would urge extreme caution in the assumption that you are able to obtain student finance for a degree at university after obtaining a level 6 Trinity diploma. It is a question frequently asked at open days - asked by my husband in fact and heard by myself in later years when I took another student to auditions and the answer from various colleges was always 'no'.  The eligibility criteria for student finance states that it is only for a first higher education qualification (level 6 is already a higher education qualification) and further says :

If you’ve studied before

You’ll usually only get student finance if you’re doing your first higher education qualification - even if your previous course was self-funded. You may still be eligible for limited funding in certain circumstances and for some courses. (copied and pasted)

When my husband queried with student finance at the time my DD was applying at 15 for entrance to vocational schools, he was told quite differently to what cotes du rhone was told. It was explained to him that for every university course there is a top up element between loan and course fee that is paid by the government, easily done for universities as we all pay taxes and they all receive some government funding. Vocational colleges as private institutions do not receive government funding and yet we have all paid the education component in our taxes - hence why the government gives the 'top up money' to students through the DADA scheme.

 

I am not saying that you would definitely not get student funding if you aleady have a DADA. I know of quite a few students who have just done that and only one who had to appeal with the universities help to get the student loan. I just think it is a grey area where guidance and reality contradict each other - quite possibly down to the continued general misunderstanding of the level of the diploma but I do remember how the same grey are occurred with housing benefits for dilpoma students some years ago - they used to get them as no student loan until the authorities tightened their belts and enforced the 'only for those in further education and not studying for a higher education qualification' rule.

 

So please do go into the process with eyes wide open.

[Justkeepsmiling]

Thank you for the advice 2dancersmum. That’s interesting as I was under the impression that from reading this forum that student finance would only pay for a second degree/ higher education if it was related to a health professional role. Maybe that has been the case in the students that Cotes du Rhône was talking about?

[Lifeafterballet]

3 hours ago, Justkeepsmiling said:

Thank you for the advice 2dancersmum. That’s interesting as I was under the impression that from reading this forum that student finance would only pay for a second degree/ higher education if it was related to a health professional role. Maybe that has been the case in the students that Cotes du Rhône was talking about?

Last year two of Dds friends graduated from vocational school with a Trinity Diploma and 2 A levels. They both were given student finance for their University Degrees. One was Dada, one not. I was told by Dds school that it would be her first time applying for student finance/a loan and the Trinity Diploma is not a full degree and is funded differently. They said that every pupil that had graduated and gone onto University education had gained funding. Not all health related courses. 
I will let you know how we get on with Dds application after 1st April ☺️ 
They can’t give to some and not too others. 

[Chamomile]

Hi, just thought I should add that I also managed to gain student funding for my university degree having had a DADA and completed my Level 6 Diploma. I’m also a law student, so not a healthcare based degree! 
Just be really careful whilst applying and be sure to declare your qualifications correctly. I personally had absolutely no problems and was granted all the necessary funding I required 🤷🏼‍♀️. As far as I know all of my fellow schoolmates have been just as successful with a plethora of degrees.

[Justkeepsmiling]

1 hour ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

school with a Trinity Diploma and 2 A levels. They both were given student finance for their University Degrees. One was Dada, one not. I was told by Dds school that it would be her first time applying for student finance/a loan and the Trinity Diploma is not a full degree and is funded differently. They said that every pupil that had graduated and gone onto University education had gained funding. Not all health related courses. 
I will let you know how we get on with Dds application after 1st April ☺️ 

Thank you 😃

 

29 minutes ago, Chamomile said:

 

Hi, just thought I should add that I also managed to gain student funding for my university degree having had a DADA and completed my Level 6 Diploma. I’m also a law student, so not a healthcare based degree! 
Just be really careful whilst applying and be sure to declare your qualifications correctly. I personally had absolutely no problems and was granted all the necessary funding I required 🤷🏼‍♀️. As far as I know all of my fellow schoolmates have been just as successful with a plethora of degrees.

 

Thank you also.

 

This is good to know, especially in the current climate. We aren’t at the graduation year yet but always good to have other options just in case.

[balletbean]

2 hours ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

Last year two of Dds friends graduated from vocational school with a Trinity Diploma and 2 A levels. They both were given student finance for their University Degrees. One was Dada, one not. I was told by Dds school that it would be her first time applying for student finance/a loan and the Trinity Diploma is not a full degree and is funded differently. They said that every pupil that had graduated and gone onto University education had gained funding. Not all health related courses. 
I will let you know how we get on with Dds application after 1st April ☺️ 
They can’t give to some and not too others. 

That’s interesting to hear your DD’s schools take on a Trinity Diploma. 
In reality a level 6 Diploma is the ‘vocational equivalent’ of a BA(Hons). 

Our local jurisdiction Student Finance Dept only funds Degree level courses. Trinity level 6 Diploma is on their list of approved courses. 
I can understand how you've secured a Student Loan, which is excellent news as a DaDa is seen as a grant therefore they aren’t requesting ‘double funding’ by applying for a student loan to attend a uni. A loan that needs to be repaid. A DaDa doesn’t. 
Good luck for April. 😉

 

 

[Petit Jete]

On 17/02/2021 at 08:47, 2dancersmum said:

I would urge extreme caution in the assumption that you are able to obtain student finance for a degree at university after obtaining a level 6 Trinity diploma. It is a question frequently asked at open days - asked by my husband in fact and heard by myself in later years when I took another student to auditions and the answer from various colleges was always 'no'.  The eligibility criteria for student finance states that it is only for a first higher education qualification (level 6 is already a higher education qualification) and further says :

If you’ve studied before

You’ll usually only get student finance if you’re doing your first higher education qualification - even if your previous course was self-funded. You may still be eligible for limited funding in certain circumstances and for some courses. (copied and pasted)

When my husband queried with student finance at the time my DD was applying at 15 for entrance to vocational schools, he was told quite differently to what cotes du rhone was told. It was explained to him that for every university course there is a top up element between loan and course fee that is paid by the government, easily done for universities as we all pay taxes and they all receive some government funding. Vocational colleges as private institutions do not receive government funding and yet we have all paid the education component in our taxes - hence why the government gives the 'top up money' to students through the DADA scheme.

 

I am not saying that you would definitely not get student funding if you aleady have a DADA. I know of quite a few students who have just done that and only one who had to appeal with the universities help to get the student loan. I just think it is a grey area where guidance and reality contradict each other - quite possibly down to the continued general misunderstanding of the level of the diploma but I do remember how the same grey are occurred with housing benefits for dilpoma students some years ago - they used to get them as no student loan until the authorities tightened their belts and enforced the 'only for those in further education and not studying for a higher education qualification' rule.

 

So please do go into the process with eyes wide open.

Agree dancersmum. My daughter has a Level 6 Trinity College Diploma in Professional Dance and had a Dada, she graduated in 2012. She is about to graduate again and become a Midwife, she has had a full student loan to do so. However, it was made clear that she was only able to access the student loan system because her course was an NHS related degree. When you apply for a student loan on line, the question 'have you ever had a Dada?' comes up quite quickly in the application process, or at least it did when she applied. You have already had access to Government funding if you have had a Dada for three years. 

[taxi4ballet]

On 08/02/2021 at 13:21, balletbean said:

 

Throw in Brexit and the implications for those hoping to join a European Company is also looking less likely. 
My DD was told (during a recent zoom tutorial) that those company’s are only interested in applicants who hold a European Union or Irish passport. 

Perhaps the reverse might also apply and British companies will employ fewer EU dancers and more British ones.

[taxi4ballet]

On 11/02/2021 at 10:57, Jewel said:

Some companies will allow non Eu residents to audition and are willing to pay for visas.  However we have already seen several Spotlight breakdowns that specify that only EU passport holders can apply.

Can you imagine the raised eyebrows if British companies specified that only those holding British passports could apply?

[Pirouette]

5 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

Perhaps the reverse might also apply and British companies will employ fewer EU dancers and more British ones.

This would be one solution, but dancers would probably need to come off the Shortage Occupation List for there to be any chance of companies actually following through on this in practice.  

[Pirouette]

5 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

Can you imagine the raised eyebrows if British companies specified that only those holding British passports could apply?

Yes, and I'm surprised that there aren't more raised eyebrows when British casting directors and companies specify that only those holding EU passports can apply, meaning that the majority of UK citizens are barred from auditions being held or advertised in their own country. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Pirouette

[glowlight]

10 hours ago, Pirouette said:

Yes, and I'm surprised that there aren't more raised eyebrows when British casting directors and companies specify that only those holding EU passports can apply, meaning that the majority of UK citizens are barred from auditions being held or advertised in their own country. 

Are they still advertising like this?  While we were in the EU it made sense because, generally, UK passports would have been considered EU passports from that point of view.  And EU citizens had the same rights to work in the UK as UK citizens.  

 

[Pirouette]

2 minutes ago, glowlight said:

Are they still advertising like this?  While we were in the EU it made sense because, generally, UK passports would have been considered EU passports from that point of view.  And EU citizens had the same rights to work in the UK as UK citizens.  

 

Yes, it's coming up a lot, more an issue for performers generally than for ballet specifically.  Many ballet ads are posted abroad and you have to travel to the company rather than them coming here to audition, but companies casting for actors and dancers for things like commercials, holiday parks, tours etc are used to being able to recruit here for EU based jobs without an issue. 

 

Whether they are unaware of the legal implications of doing this now, or are simply crossing their fingers hoping performers don't complain, I'm not sure. They should not have been making specifications on the basis of nationality before either, but if this was happening then they probably got away with it as there would have been far fewer people affected to complain about it.

 

What they should be doing is taking the issue up with the government rather than shifting the problem to performers by excluding them and carrying on as before.  But we can dream...

[Lifeafterballet]

Just wondering if there is any  happy news for this years, and last years, graduates.

I've heard of a couple of “big” contract successes 🤫 The others have been “parent pays” apprenticeship opportunities with the added US/EU visa difficulties. 

I still get a lot of job pop ups on my social media and share them, but there isn’t a lot about 😢 

[WrapsnBows]

4 hours ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

Just wondering if there is any  happy news for this years, and last years, graduates.

I've heard of a couple of “big” contract successes 🤫 The others have been “parent pays” apprenticeship opportunities with the added US/EU visa difficulties. 

I still get a lot of job pop ups on my social media and share them, but there isn’t a lot about 😢 

My DD has just been applying for commercials n Tv work as nothing up

north as of yet 

[Lildancer96]

On 08/02/2021 at 14:32, balletbean said:

The old (British issued) Red passports with European Union imprinted across the top are still valid for travel (until their expiry date) and for staying in the EU up to 90 days however, holders can’t seek work like they used to. 🙁 A quick phone call to the passport office confirmed that. 
We were advised that if you have a close relative that lives in Ireland (our ancestors left in 1746 so that doesn’t quite work for us 😂) or the EU is to seek out and apply for dual nationality and then an EU passport. 
 

Not been on here for a while and lovely to recognise familiar names from when many of us were going through the upper school audition process a few years back ! 

The situation in Europe has made it harder but not impossible - European countries are used to having to pay for visas for dancers from Asia and South America to work there - looks like it may have to be similar for British but if they want a dancer , they will still have them. Although obviously it would be easier for them just to take dancers from the EU.

My dd only holds a British passport and works in a European company - she has now obtained citizenship so that she can travel easier throughout Europe.

[Anna C]

On 18/04/2021 at 09:13, Lildancer96 said:

Not been on here for a while and lovely to recognise familiar names from when many of us were going through the upper school audition process a few years back ! 

The situation in Europe has made it harder but not impossible - European countries are used to having to pay for visas for dancers from Asia and South America to work there - looks like it may have to be similar for British but if they want a dancer , they will still have them. Although obviously it would be easier for them just to take dancers from the EU.

My dd only holds a British passport and works in a European company - she has now obtained citizenship so that she can travel easier throughout Europe.

 

Lovely to see you here again, Lildancer96. ☺️

[Lildancer96]

On 19/04/2021 at 18:13, Anna C said:

 

Lovely to see you here again, Lildancer96. ☺️

Thank you ! 

[Belleballerina]

Not really ballet related but I’m so sad to hear that today my daughters Laine graduation day has been cancelled due to COVID restrictions on- going. My heart is so sad for everybody graduating this year and last year - when will this ever end? A few of this years graduates have secured jobs (mainly boys) . A shockingly sad 3 years of training (although she’s loved it despite COVID ) 🥵

[Lifeafterballet]

2 minutes ago, Belleballerina said:

Not really ballet related but I’m so sad to hear that today my daughters Laine graduation day has been cancelled due to COVID restrictions on- going. My heart is so sad for everybody graduating this year and last year - when will this ever end? A few of this years graduates have secured jobs (mainly boys) . A shockingly sad 3 years of training (although she’s loved it despite COVID ) 🥵

I’m so sad for you 😢

I think a lot of vocational schools end of the year plans have been dashed by yesterday’s announcement. 
My Dd had an awful zoom graduation ceremony last year. It’s not really how you want their final days at school to end 😢 And the job opportunities are dire too, especially for girls. I’d like to believe that things can only get better but I’m sadly pessimistic. The legacy of Covid will live on and on ☹️ 

[balletbean]

On 15/06/2021 at 20:01, Belleballerina said:

Not really ballet related but I’m so sad to hear that today my daughters Laine graduation day has been cancelled due to COVID restrictions on- going. My heart is so sad for everybody graduating this year and last year - when will this ever end? A few of this years graduates have secured jobs (mainly boys) . A shockingly sad 3 years of training (although she’s loved it despite COVID ) 🥵

I totally feel your pain.  NBS have had to cancel their Graduation Ball after Boris’s most recent announcement. 😢

The Ball was to be straight after the year end show. Same attendees that had been in school continuously since March, been swabbed twice weekly then performed on stage and shared changing rooms but according to the rules they can’t then sit down at a venue for a meal to celebrate their graduation (as it’s not a wedding) is beyond words.  😡😡

The show and ceremony can still go ahead with a socially distant audience.🤞🏼🙏🏻
 I then see today’s announcement that they are allowing up to 60,000 in Wembley Stadium for the footie. 🤬

Edited June 22, 2021 by balletbean

[Justkeepsmiling]

31 minutes ago, balletbean said:

I then see today’s announcement that they are allowing up to 60,000 in Wembley Stadium for the footie.

I also read somewhere last week that they were trying to allow 2500 VIPs to avoid quarantine restrictions to attend the final/semi-final!!! It makes very little sense to me. 
I really feel for your dd and her peers- that’s so disappointing after the past two years that they have had! It just feels like we are never going to be out of this!

[Fiz]

@balletbean, I totally understand your anger. I watched the France-Hungary game with disbelief. All those people were bunched together with not a mask in sight. I am beginning to wonder what is the point of all the individual efforts at disease control when so many others flout them with no consideration for others at all. It isn't fair that they can do that yet the responsible efforts of those young dancers is disregarded. I am so sorry.

[balletbean]

4 minutes ago, Justkeepsmiling said:

I also read somewhere last week that they were trying to allow 2500 VIPs to avoid quarantine restrictions to attend the final/semi-final!!! It makes very little sense to me. 
I really feel for your dd and her peers- that’s so disappointing after the past two years that they have had! It just feels like we are never going to be out of this!

Thank you for your kind words. I’ve booked flights and hotel to attend the graduation but I’m not hopeful as the situation is not improving 🙁. My DD isn’t even coming home afterwards, as she would be sent into 10 mandatory isolation whilst I don’t have to as I’m double jabbed. Truly sucks for them😢

[balletbean]

2 minutes ago, Fiz said:

@balletbean, I totally understand your anger. I watched the France-Hungary game with disbelief. All those people were bunched together with not a mask in sight. I am beginning to wonder what is the point of all the individual efforts at disease control when so many others flout them with no consideration for others at all. It isn't fair that they can do that yet the responsible efforts of those young dancers is disregarded. I am so sorry.

Thank you for your kind words. 
The older teenagers/young adults are the ones that are being hit the most and their life being impacted the greatest. Except where the vaccines are concerned. They are the forgotten generation. As if they don’t matter.  

Edited June 22, 2021 by balletbean