Height question for classical ballet career

[Mumofballetmaddaughter]

In my experience I think it's nigh on impossible to second guess what any school or company are looking for with regards to physique. My advice to anyone would be that if your child wants to audition and is prepared for rejection and you can afford the time and money then go for it. If you treat it as a masterclass then whatever the outcome, it will have been a valuable experience.

[ChocChip]

I was wondering if there was a height thread in the forum and there it is.

 

I don't know what kind of professional ballet schools you are talking about.

 

I know only the Vaganova Academy structure. There are many schools in other countries which have the exact same structure.
Vaganova auditions 9 or 10 year old girls and boys and provide them with 8 years of professional ballet training. There are two exams in the audition and the first is purely a physical exam - height, weight, body structure and limitations - turnout, pointing of the leg... etc..
We were chit-chating one day with my boyfriend about Vaganova-like school auditions and he said to me something that really had sence:

"There is no sure way to predict whether a 10 year old will grow too high or have big breasts (for girls). They must ask questions about the parents' bodies - are they both short or tall, fine or big-boned."

I was a child with average height until I turned 13. Then I grew up fast and at the age of 15 I reached my final height - height converters say 5' 9 1/2''. Both my parents are tall and there was a very small chance for me to have an average height.

 

Don't they ask those kind of questions in the schools your children are auditioning for?

[ChocChip]

I think that being short and appearing short are two different things.

For short women length of limbs matters most.

 

If we compare two women with equal height - one with normal proportions of torso and limbs, and another with short limbs, the first one will look better on stage than the second one. Being short with short legs will not work because the tutu doesn't lay around the waist, it lays around the hips and it makes the impression of being additionally shorter.

[Legseleven]

I agree, ChocChip - whatever the height, it is the proportions that are important in classical ballet. My DD is above average in height for her age and has a short body and long legs, along with what has often been referred to as a petite frame. Some short dancers have the same proportions and frame as my DD while some are very short but not petite or long-legged. I do find it wearying that non-dancers tend to think that being short in itself equals just right for classical ballet.

 

The issue of parents' height and build has been discussed in a previous thread, I think about what the RBS is looking for and it was rightly pointed out that looking at parents alone, if that were possible, would not necessarily be of assistance as children may take after their grandparents or other relatives, even unknown relatives several generations back!

[Anna C]

Absolutely right, Legseleven. My body is a combination of my Paternal Grandmother and my Paternal Aunt. The only physical traits I inherited from my mum's side are my hands!

 

My daughter looks like a combination of my husband and my Mother, in height and body proportions. So I suppose a school could look at her and see some aspects of my husband but I doubt they'd get much help from looking at me.

 

Dd's physio says that for a classical ballet career, there's no point looking at girls until they are around 16 because you simply cannot tell what they're going to look like before then.

[afab]

I absolutely agree about the age thing. DD1 had always been a very thin and tall for her age child. She is 15 now and has stopped growing and even though she's still very thin, she's also curvy and has feminine hips. Her muscles have developed a lot but not length wise (she dances 20+ hours a week) and her torso seems to have grown more than her limbs proportionally... And she's not tall at 5' 4... Definitely not a ballerina's body! Luckily she chose MT a while back!!!

Her sister, 13, is a ballerina and only a ballerina at heart and still has, so far, a ballerina's body... But I do worry about the next 2 years!

Edited May 28, 2013 by afab

[Fiz]

My eldest dd had the perfect ballet body. Her teacher said so. At 18 she changed from being tiny to becoming quite busty and no longer a perfect size six. She did not want to be a dancer but she still laments her current size 12 body

[taximom]

My dd is a contemporary dancer but the height issue is not only a ballet one. She has lost out on at least 4 auditions in the last few weeks purely on height which is 5'2" if stretched. If she wanted to consider cruise ship jobs she couldn't as again she is too small (as well as getting sea sick!). It doesn't matter that she graduated as one of the top dancers from London contemporary dance school last year sometimes the costume dictates. She is 22 next week but look about 14 so that doesn't help either. There are male contemporary jobs out there at the moment but not female. Whichever route your dance ambitions lie and however good you are it might still not happen and plan B, C .......... Is always needed.

[LinMM]

Height can sometimes be fairly accurately predicted at around 10-11 but not really the eventual overall shape which of course can be very important in classical ballet. So have to just keep going and hope for the best! I would have thought however that for ballet 5ft 2 would not be that much of a problem ......being over 5ft 8 is much more likely to be an issue except in rare cases.

[JulieW]

Smaller than 5'3" is as much of a "problem" as being taller. There is work out there for both ends of the spectrum - but it is much harder to find. You either need to find companies who like tall or short girls (or boys - they have their issues too) or there may just be certain roles available where they need sometime of a certain height (Greta in The Metamorphosis comes to mind - a great role for someone under 5'3" but it was one part for a very short run - not something you can live on!)

 

You can't even get as far as auditioning at some companies if you're outside the range they've asked for so your choices are limited.

 

But of course we all know of short and tall dancers working professionally, so there is hope!

[tomuchtallent]

I've met quite a few very successful ballet dancers and they have all been just a bit taller than me,I'm only 5,1

[daisybell]

My DD is 5ft 3inch (with a very high bun!) When she was doing the audition rounds last year she found many companies where she was just too short. She didn't even get to the audition stage because they were looking for dancers of 5ft 5inch plus. Equally she has a friend who is finding she is too tall (5ft 9inchs) for many companies in this years audition rounds, however she now has an offer in a company who wanted tall dancers. 

 

You will also find some companies out there who have a really wide range of heights in their company. Where my daughter works the height range for girls is between 5ft 1inch to 5ft 10inchs! They need tall and short dancers, the 4 little ones have recently danced Cygnets so being petite was very useful for that role.

[LinMM]

Well looks like there's hope for all then thank goodness!! I only know a few professional dancers over the years personally and I must say they've ALL been on the smaller side (5ft 2-5ft-4)! However times do change and perhaps they're going for the taller girls now....which I can't help feeling pleased at being tall myself!! But really I wish this height thing wasn't such an issue.....good dancing is what one really wants to see and think of difference between Nadia Nerina say and Yuliana Lopatkina!!

[taxi4ballet]

Somebody said to me that as boys in general are getting taller, they can take taller girls. I assume that is because the girls need to be the same height or a little shorter than their partner when on pointe.

[LinMM]

Yes this is the main reason because the girls are on pointe.....maybe inContemporary not such an issue etc.

 

It reminds me of a pas de deux created for fun ...was it Elite Syncopations?.... Which places the smallest male with the tallest female and makes a joke of it. When I saw this it was Wayne Sleep as male and Vergie Derman as female. A very funny piece at the time. I don't know how tall Vergie Derman was but she seemed tall for the Royal then who used to not like females over 5ft 5 in those days but perhaps she wasn't so tall by some of today's dancers.

[primrose]

Dance Europe have classical ballet companies advertising for dancers on their site and quite a few state the height requirements. On average they tend to be 5ft 4 min to 5ft 7, but of course there are always varitations to what each company wants.

[Pas de Quatre]

There is received wisdom that in the "olden days" RB didn't have tall dancers, but that just isn't the case.  Beryl Grey, Svetlana Beriosova, Deanne Bergsman, Monica Mason spring to mind as just a few who were tall, as well as Vergie Derman mentioned by LinMM.  I am sure people here can name others.  Jane Landon was around 5ft 10 ins I believe (same RBS graduating class as Wayne Sleep) and eventually went to Germany because there weren't any tall partners for her.

 

As said above, the extremes of the height range do find it more difficult to get work as fewer companies can accommodate them.  Those in the middle have more options.

[aileen]

Are male ballet dancers getting taller? Many seem to be smaller than average when compared to the general (male) population. Many men in the UK are at least 5 foot 10 inches tall and yet a lot of the male dancers, at the RB at least, seem to be smaller than that. It's my understanding that dancing on pointe adds 6 inches to a ballerina's height. If a ballerina is 5 foot 7 then she will need a partner at least 6 foot 1 for the partnership to look right (IMO). A lot of the Russian ballerinas look tall to me but that is what the Russian companies seem to like. I feel that the men often struggle to partner the taller ballerinas. Today, at the ROH, one of the taller men in the RB did not look quite right (IMO) partnering a very tall ballerina in the company. OTOH, a taller ballerina can have greater presence on the stage when she is dancing her solos.

[LinMM]

I think the average height of males is supposed to be getting taller but not that I see, at any rate, in the ballet company's. we could do with some taller male dancers now I think. But obviously dancing seems to attract the not so tall or presumably there would already be taller dancers.....I only care about this re partners for taller females....always for me the height has nothing to do with quality of dancing etc.

[CeliB]

My DS is now 1/4 inch off 6 foot- and not yet 16 so I think has a few more inches in him. We have always been given the strong impression that height is an advantage for a male principal- at least as far as doing the 'prince' type roles- so I have been willing him to grow (felt like sneaking baby bio into his tea!) and this has clearly worked (I take all the credit of course) as he has grown 5 inches in the last 2 yrs.... From watching a number of school performances I do notice that the small and incredibly athletic Japanese boys with (IMO) stunning technique nevertheless struggle to command the stage as much as the taller boys. But the more familiar I become with the ballet world the more I notice male dancers who are not particularly big.....so as with many of these questions about what makes a great/successful dancer it's never as simple as x height or x number of pirouettes or x degrees of extension. If they have that indefinable sparkle no-one seems to care what size they are (within reason!!).

[LinMM]

So agree with thisCeliB! I don't believe Steven McRae for example of the Royal is that tall but I think he has a commanding stage presence!! And there is that extra undefinable something where you just want to follow a certain dancer which has got nothing to do with height but if its there in a taller person perhaps a touch more noticeable.

 

And I did think your DS looked considerably taller than when I had previously seen him last June as a by comment!!! But I still thought a year ago WHO is that boy.....really is the last time will mention!!

[primrose]

Steven has taught my dd and he is quite a bit taller than her. She is 5ft 7. I estimate him to be approximately 5ft 10 or 11

[LinMM]

Can't find any info on his height he is same as Johan Kobborg apparently. He may well be taller than the impression of him on stage with others gives but your daughter has had the experience ......I would have assumed about 5ft 9ins otherwise....which is small by average male standards but not in ballet. Anyway whatever his height he has a great stage presence!! I can't remember how tall Nureyev was who had a wonderful presence but it was the opposite with him he seemed taller on stage than when I actually stood next to him I'm sure he was no taller than 5ft 8ins or 5ft 9ins maybe.

[Marianne]

5ft 9ins definitely not "small" by average male standards - very much in the average range for young men in both Australia and UK (and a lot of other places in the world, as the chart on this page reveals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#Average_height_around_the_world) Indeed, seems that it would only be considered significantly below average in the Scandinavian/Germanic north of Europe.

 

But I suppose that partner matching must be an intricate science - taking into account not only their "standing" heights, but the inches she gains on pointe (which must vary considerably depending on foot length) and their relative proportions (i.e. if he has long legs, while Partner A has short legs and a long torso, he might have to awkwardly lean down to reach her waist; whereas Partner B might be exactly the same standing height, but with long legs that bring her waist exactly where he wants it!)

 

This interview with Iohna Loots offers a glimpse of the travails of a petite dancer (http://www.balletassociation.co.uk/reports/2008/loots08.html ) and suggests that the Royal Ballet require a minimum of 5ft 1in (or did under Monica Mason, at least).

[LinMM]

Interesting Marianne that chart one forgets these things as a WORLD average too!! I would have sworn that the average would have been about 5ft 11 in say UK America Australia and Scandinavia but there you are we are not as tall as we think!! Though of course on an individual level this can appear very different.....I am considerably taller than average for a female then and so,are most of my friends who all but two are taller than me!!

Found out Nureyev was 1.73 which is about 5ft 8ins as I thought. In one article I read it said Steven McRae was 5ft 8ins or thereabouts so a bit vague....so guess he won't be more than 5ft 10 ins........which is getting on the tall side for a dancer!!!(male or female) currently.

[aileen]

I read an interview with Steven McRae in which he said that he was 5ft 8 tall (or he may have said 5ft 7) on a good day! I believe that Johan Kobborg is 5ft 9 tall and that his relatively short stature for a Scandanavian was one of the reasons that he went abroad. I think that you have to look at the heights of young men *now*. I would question whether 5ft 9 is actually tall for men in the UK today. Both men and women are getting taller on average. My husband is just 6ft and when he was younger he felt that he was tall but over the last ten or twenty years he has felt that he is no longer particularly tall and that there are many taller men around.

[hfbrew]

At 5ft 10ins my ds was too short to be considered for some companies.

 

He has done  workshops with McRae though and is indeed taller than him!

[Jan McNulty]

There used to be a 6' + dancer at NB who was the tallest dancer there. He joined SFB and looked average towards short! On the whole my preference has always been towards shorter male dancers as they tend to be better at the small fast steps I like. Interesting comment about Kobborg, I didn't think the Danish male dancers much different to ours.

[Tulip]

Men are definitely taller today, my husband is 6ft 1inch and in the city there are loads of younger men who actually make my husband look small. Years ago my husband used to be much taller compared to most men, but children are definitely taller. Could be to do with hormones in our food?

[aileen]

Tulip, my 6ft husband feels quite small these days. There are lots of men over 6ft tall around, certainly in London.

[LinMM]

Aileen I read that about Kobburg too and in another that Kobburg and McRae were the same height so perhaps he is 5ft 9in then.....he has certainly never given me impression of being that tall.

Sorry all you dancers out there I really don't mind what height you are!!!

[LinMM]

Sorry KOBBORG!

[audsjcanuck]

To the OP. Schools generally do not train as a feeder into just one school correct? So height will not be an issue for the schools per say. Height will not truly be a factor until auditioning for companies. And many companies do have height restrictions. Regardless of how beautiful a dancer is, companies do want the corps de ballet to look like a corp. There are jobs for the shorter or taller dancer but they are fewer. So go into it  knowing the reality... research all the options while dd is finishing training so you are prepared and to direct her energies into the best suitable places. And good luck!