Has balletcoforum created 'sacred cows'?

[capybara]

Someone has used the term 'sacred cow' about a dancer on the thread for the current RB Triple Bill. Interesting but I don't see it that way. Where the Royal Ballet is concerned the Forum comes across to me as follows:

 

Firm Favourites (although obviously varying from person to person):

Ball, Calvert, Campbell, Clarke, Hay, Hayward, Morera, Muntagirov, Naghdi, Nunez, Morera, O'Sullivan, Osipova, Sambe, Watson

 

Increasing in favour as people see them doing more:

Bracewell, Ella, Hirano, Kaneko, Magri, Richardson, Sissens, Stix-Brunell, Takada, Yudes

 

Significant variety of opinion over time:

Bonelli, Choe, Cuthbertson, Hamilton, Heap. (Polunin)

 

Principals, First Soloists and Soloists rarely mentioned in reviews:

Acri, Cowley, Dyer, Edmonds, Harrod, Hinkis, Kay, Kish, Lamb, McRae, Mendizabal, Soares, Zucchetti

 

This is just my impression and my list obviously excludes dancers who haven't been cast much over the past year.

However, overall,  I don't think that we  do too badly in terms of balance.

And I know what I think!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tony Newcombe]

Firm favourites. 9 out of 14 are White Lodgers

[Lizbie1]

4 minutes ago, Tony Newcombe said:

Firm favourites. 9 out of 14 are White Lodgers

 

Good spot! I wonder whether that's because people here have been tracking them for a long time, whether there's a stylistic reason, or whether it's for another reason or none!

[penelopesimpson]

Or probably because the dancers concerned are just exceptional?  It was me who used the phrase and I certainly meant no disrespect.  What  I was saying was that a particular dancer doesn't move me.  For others it is probably quite different.

[Lizbie1]

I'd add that from the ranks of Character Artists, Avis and Gartside in particular get a lot of favourable mentions here.

[Jan McNulty]

I have my own sacred cows who can do no wrong for me but I hope I can understand other people's POV.

 

It's harder for me with RB as there are two dancers I follow so I am not as familiar with the rest.

[Xandra Newman]

1 hour ago, penelopesimpson said:

Or probably because the dancers concerned are just exceptional?  It was me who used the phrase and I certainly meant no disrespect.  What  I was saying was that a particular dancer doesn't move me.  For others it is probably quite different.

 

I usually mention those dancers who are truly exceptional for one reason or another (as in Capybara's Firm favourites list). If their dancing is just nice (which is the least I expect of them as they are Royal Ballet dancers after all) I don't mention them.

I attend RB performances to be bowled over and to be moved. Just nice dancing won't do it for me (but there are dancers whose technic bowl me over but don't move me at all!) 

[Ian Macmillan]

I would have yielded to nobody in my admiration for Mme Yanowsky - and would have taken mortal offence at anyone referring to her as a "sacred cow."

 

With that out of the way, are the "Firm Favourites" in bold print to be considered 'firmer' than those not?

[capybara]

1 hour ago, Ian Macmillan said:

With that out of the way, are the "Firm Favourites" in bold print to be considered 'firmer' than those not?

 

I thought so; but my lists were only my 'off the cuff' impressions of how the posts on this forum come across to me.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by capybara

[Rachelm]

From the "rarely mentioned" list I have to say I love Sarah Lamb- I can never take my eyes off her, and also Meaghan Grace Hinkis. Very interesting observations!

[penelopesimpson]

Sorry about the word 'cow.' Just couldn't think of a better one.

 

I would say Muntagirov is firmly in that category - with good reason for his sublime dancing and apparent ability to tackle anything.  But does he move me  - no - not yet.

Marianela is exactly the same.  Universally praised for good reason but I don't have an emotional connection with her.  Her best role for me was as the mistress in Mayerling.

Stix-Brunell is the same.  Fab, but no hankie necessary.

 

My own cherished ones would be Watson, Hayward and Ball who strike my heart whatever they do.  But not so sacred that I wouldn't criticise if I felt the performance was not up to their usual standard.  (okay, probably not Watson (!) who is a god for me)

Edited May 2, 2018 by penelopesimpson

[Xandra Newman]

I don't think this Forum has created "sacred cows".

 

Most posters are (very) knowledgable, well informed and experienced ballet goers (but I also enjoy reading a post from a not so experienced ballet goer or a complete newbie as their view is often fresh and makes me look at things in a different light).  

 

Most posters know enough to see who is outstanding and who is not so outstanding (baring in mind that ballet is art and opinions will  often be subjective). 

 

Yes we all have our favourite dancers and that is acceptable and normal. What is important is that one can be objective (not always easy!) and also praise a dancer who has given an outstanding performance who is not a favourite; ... the same goes for when our favourite(s) did/do not produce an outstanding performance. We mustn't forget that dancers are also humans  and have their off moments too!

 

I appreciate any dancer who has an outstanding technic, a beautiful classical line is a true bonus, and who has the ability to move me (in the form of goosebumps or tears).

[FLOSS]

Here we have the distinction between dancers who we admire but do not move the heart and those we love. The problem about the dancers we love is that we are sometimes blinded to their defects and believe that they can do anything. If they appear in a ballet which does not work for us we are more likely to attribute the failure to the choreographer than we are to ask ourselves whether the problem is that  the dancer or dancers were miscast.

 

Now of course none of us can afford to go and see every performance and few of us will go out of our way to see dancers who we find acceptable but slightly dull. But just occasionally an accidental pairing occurs due to injury or illness when two  dancers who we would almost certainly not put ourselves out to see are suddenly thrown together and by some strange alchemy it works and goes on working. I had such an experience with a La Sylphide which Rojo and Pennefather were due to dance. When I got to the theatre Rojo was off injured and replaced by Sarah Lamb. Now I thought that Rojo was not suited to the role of the Sylph but I had few expectations of the substitute  pairing. It turned out to be extraordinary. Lamb was pitch perfect as the Sylph not too fussy and fluttery, which I thought was the problem with Cojocaru's portrayal, nor too earthbound and terrestrial which was my problem with Rojo's portrayal, and Lamb's Sylph was not too sweet either. There was an element of guile and amorality in Lamb's portrayal of the Sylph. Pennefather did the role of James complete justice and they are for me the best non Danish cast I have ever seen in the ballet. The alchemy also worked when they danced Manon and De Grieux together. But try telling anyone who never saw those performances how good they were and you get total disbelief.

 

By the way anyone who finds Stix-Brunell dull should try to see her in TheTwo Pigeons. Ball and she gave by far the best account of the ballet when it was revived a couple of years ago. If they are cast together and are half as good as they were at that single initial performance you will be in for a treat.

 

As far as the "missing" are concerned I suspect that one of the reasons why Harrod is not mentioned very much is quite simply that she has spent quite extensiveperiods off on maternity leave and as a result is still dancing small supporting roles which you either see or you don't as they are not advertised in advance. As far as Zucchetti is concerned he has had  quite a bit of time off injured. His Lescaut is a nasty little thug and very effective but he cuts some of the finer detail in his first solo. How often a dancer is "mentioned in dispatches" is the result of a  subtle combination of the director's choice of repertory, the individual dancer's availability and suitability and the development needs of the dancers at different ranks in the company.

Edited May 2, 2018 by FLOSS

[MAB]

Agree about Stix-Brunell. for me she is the most under-appreciated, under-rated, under-used dancer in the company.

 

My own feelings about Capybara's initial list is that while going along with most of it I don't agree with it entirely and rate very highly some seldom mentioned in reviews.  I think what we appreciate has a lot to do with personal criteria and  expectations.

[Balletfanp]

I love Stix-Brunell. She would be in my Firm Favourites category! 🙂

[Xandra Newman]

I don't feel Stix-Brunell is under-appreciated, under-rated and under-used at all. 

 

She always figures centrally and as 1st cast in any ballet Wheeldon has created/creates; in Corybantic Games she got her own solo to dance (already in the very early days in her career she danced the principal role in Prince of the Pagodas, she had Alice too from the very beginning, etc) , she got to dance some big roles in the past, and still is at present. She was much talked about in her early career but she got injured for a whole season after she was fast-tracked and promoted to Soloist after only two years of joining the company - having danced few corps roles. It's hard to keep up that rhythm if a dancer is trust in the limelight so very early on in their career. 

 

...and there are three young female principals to keep on their toes too  

[penelopesimpson]

Fabulous post, Floss.  But just for the record, I don't find Stix-Brunell 'dull.'  I simply said that she doesn't stir my heart.  

[capybara]

Thank you everyone for responding so thoughtfully to my opening salvo - which was not, of course, my own personal list of favourites.

Please keep your comments coming

[fromthebalcony]

I am not as familiar with everyone's favorites here, but I would say there are "sacred cows" on the ballet boards in the U.S.  I know many people hesitate to post their opinions because of this issue.  

[stella]

Good observations! 

 

I think Cowley and Stix-Brunell get positively mentioned quite often. 

 

I’d say that Mendizabal is a case of ‘you don’t know what you have until it’s gone’. She dances her specific repertory very, very well and I think her presence will be missed when she retires. 

 

As an Australian, I cautiously add that I’ve noticed a slight bias towards British dancers on this board, but I think that’s unavoidable and not necessarily a bad thing (I know I have a soft spot for the Aussies in the company). 

 

As dancers come to the end of their careers their technique does start to weaken, which can take away considerably from ones enjoyment of a performance. Others appreciate the level of artistry that only a well seasoned dancer can achieve. It just comes down to preferences.

Edited May 3, 2018 by stella
wording

[capybara]

35 minutes ago, stella said:

As an Australian, I cautiously add that I’ve noticed a slight bias towards British dancers on this board, but I think that’s unavoidable and not necessarily a bad thing (I know I have a soft spot for the Aussies in the company). 

 

So you will also have noticed "the Alexander Campbell fan club" on here, stella? Hahahaha!

[Jan McNulty]

2 hours ago, capybara said:

 

So you will also have noticed "the Alexander Campbell fan club" on here, stella? Hahahaha!

 

Of which I am one of the founder members from his BRB days!!!

 

And speaking of the man himself:  https://sydneyeisteddfod.com.au/meet-sydney-eisteddfods-newest-ambassador-alexander-campbellnew-article/

 

I was only talking about my late friend Marge the other day.  She had a real thing about dancers from Australia and I seem to be developing something of the same obsession!

[Xandra Newman]

4 hours ago, stella said:

 

 

As an Australian, I cautiously add that I’ve noticed a slight bias towards British dancers on this board, but I think that’s unavoidable and not necessarily a bad thing (I know I have a soft spot for the Aussies in the company). 

 

 

 

If we here on the UK Ballet Forum don't sing the praises of (or are slightly biased towards) our great British dancers...which country will sing their praises? 

 

(but we also sing the praises of Latin-American, Australian, Spanish, Portuguese, USA dancers in the RB too  )

 

[Fiz]

Vadim Muntagirov and Sarah Lamb together in the bedroom pas de deux in Manon just made me cry. It was sublime, moving and totally real.

[aliceinwoolfland]

^ thats really interesting as I found it technically fantastic but thought Lamb lacked Osipova’s sensual passion - it almost felt a little held back. She is a gorgeous dancer though! 

 

In terms of favourites, I love Hayward, Naghdi, Takada and Osipova (I feel that Takada is a bit underrated) and I also really like Stix Brunell, Campbell and Muntagirov. 

[Balletfanp]

2 hours ago, Fiz said:

Vadim Muntagirov and Sarah Lamb together in the bedroom pas de deux in Manon just made me cry. It was sublime, moving and totally real.

 

Couldn’t agree more, Fiz - I feel wrung out now!

[Fiz]

Me too! We also collected both of our daughters from the same cinema after they’d watched Infinity War so they were strung out too!

[Balletfanp]

I’m not sure I’ll sleep tonight!

[JohnS]

Have the last few posts escaped from Manon - perhaps the power of that final PDD?

[Fiz]

I can’t sleep now!

[Fiz]

They haven’t escaped as such, John. Penelope said that she didn’t find that Vadim Muntagirov moved her as a dancer yesterday. I found him tremendously moving last night. The whole Royal Ballet seemed to be on fire. I also found Muntagirov’s confession of loving Macmillan choreography and knowing he would not not be able to dance it in Russia and that he was thrilled to be able to dance it now very endearing. 

[Richard LH]

14 hours ago, aliceinwoolfland said:

^ thats really interesting as I found it technically fantastic but thought Lamb lacked Osipova’s sensual passion - it almost felt a little held back. She is a gorgeous dancer though! 

 

In terms of favourites, I love Hayward, Naghdi, Takada and Osipova (I feel that Takada is a bit underrated) and I also really like Stix Brunell, Campbell and Muntagirov. 

That would be more or less my current list - I would add Hay....also Whitehead in terms of character principals. And yes I agree about Takada....

[Fiz]

Oh yes, I loved James Hay the first time I saw him dance. He was Alain in  Fille and he made him sad and pitiful instead of the knockabout figure he often is. I also like Calvin Richardson.