Audition fees

[Streetdancer]

Interesting campaign that could equally apply to dance schools!

 

Drama schools urged to cut their audition fees

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2018/apr/08/too-privileged-drama-schools-urged-cut-audition-fees?

 

[hoglett]

Absolutely.  DD in Year 9 and I thought the other day I'm going to have to start putting away ££ each month for audition costs,  travel, accommodation etc. ..

[Pointetoes]

DD is auditioning this time next yr for 18+ and I know we are looking at four figures for all her audition fees, travel etc 

[MrsMoo2]

Yep and I’ve noticed how they are adding little things on and saying, it’s not necessary but adviseable, so of course you part with the dosh in case it affects your DS/DD’s chances! Then, when you ask for feedback in some cases you won’t even get that. Should deffo be looked at...😯 xx

[porthesia]

My biggest mistake was not buying a 16-25 railcard, could have saved myself loads

[Moneypenny]

I’d be surprised if ballet schools drop their audition fees, I imagine it’s a nice stream of income each year.

[meadowblythe]

Mrs Moo, curious what sort of things are recommended?

 

Music school auditions were horrendous, over £100 a go, but students on full MDS got 3 paid for, including travel.  

 

Of course we all know that the actual fees are just the tip of the iceberg, I'm still trying not to think about how much I spent on travel costs.  

[balletbean]

Meadowblythe, I’ve calculated that each audition would cost about £500/£600. That’s for my DD and I when I’ve added up the costs of travel and accommodation. Fees are such a small amount when you add up the other costs. Mind blowing amounts really when you take into account many hold prelims and finals. University can definitely appear to be an easier option not that many would agree. But that’s a whole new topic completely. 😉

Edited April 8, 2018 by balletbean

[HAIRBELLES]

I cannot remember where it was possibly RCS , Central ? You can audition free if your income was below a certain threshold .... Or maybe I've just dreamt this 😉

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I think we’ve been lucky. Two auditions were free , one involved a short train journey costing £10, the other a 40 mile Car journey. A third audition was £70 & a £30 Premier Inn (we didn’t pay the £45 Dada recall fee as she accepted elsewhere) 

[Streetdancer]

Northern Ballet CAT scheme offers an audition fee waiver based on income levels. But like you say, that's a drop in the ocean.... 

[BlueLou]

With prelims and finals, and some schools (e.g. Central and RCS) having finals that span 2 days, it is certainly costly. We figured an average of about £400 per school dd applied to (including 2 audition rounds, fees, travel, accommodation, food etc…..). 

I agree with MrsMoo2 - I think it’s poor form not to give a little bit of feedback to candidates, especially those that have made finals but not been offered a place. It would only take a few minutes and would be a mark of respect towards families that have invested a lot of money, time and effort. Laine have 700-800 applicants and they offer feedback over the telephone if required, so I don’t see why other schools can’t make that effort. I presume they don’t want to get into a debate - but I’m sure they could cover themselves by saying ‘in our opinion, on the basis of our expert observations during the audition …….’.

[Nicola H]

58 minutes ago, BlueLou said:

With prelims and finals, and some schools (e.g. Central and RCS) having finals that span 2 days, it is certainly costly. We figured an average of about £400 per school dd applied to (including 2 audition rounds, fees, travel, accommodation, food etc…..). 

I agree with MrsMoo2 - I think it’s poor form not to give a little bit of feedback to candidates, especially those that have made finals but not been offered a place. It would only take a few minutes and would be a mark of respect towards families that have invested a lot of money, time and effort. Laine have 700-800 applicants and they offer feedback over the telephone if required, so I don’t see why other schools can’t make that effort. I presume they don’t want to get into a debate - but I’m sure they could cover themselves by saying ‘in our opinion, on the basis of our expert observations during the audition …….’.

how long do you think it would take to write that up ? 

The following anecdote is  totally unrelated to  dance,  I currently work in logistics for a large retailer, part of my role  involves being able to do the actual processing of online orders  as well as  shop urgent requests and  orders generated by  the inbound and outbound  call centres - i.e. physical hands on stock  into the  packaging  and  out the door with correct  paperwork etc  ( and all the data protection malarkey) - 

I was asked to  do some training  / provide a second opinion  on one of our new starters  who is  frankly  struggling.  this meant  i worked with him  for  the vast majority of 2 full shifts  -  my productivity during that  time  was zero  ( the cost of this sort of training  is written off into the overhead - same as we now write off  8 person hours / day  into a support role becasue overall we get more done that way  )  but it allowed me to directly supervise his work.  during those shifts  i was writing notes  much as  the audition panel will write notes as they  see  people  audition. 

synthesising those notes into meaningful feedback  / report  took a further 2 hours  and a further hour   with  his named trainer ... 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Nicola H

[BlueLou]

I don’t think anyone would expect a detailed written report after a dance audition. Laine provide a few minutes of feedback over the phone. I’m not sure exactly what the nature of that would be, but they did say that if a candidate had failed to secure a place on the 3 year diploma course they were happy to give an indication of whether it was worth the candidate applying for the foundation year option this year or waiting another year. I would guess that they would indicate areas that required improvement. Many candidates who fail to secure a place at dance upper schools try again the following year, so all they want to know is what areas they 'scored low' in so they know what to focus on during the year ahead. I’m guessing that for many who make finals the feedback could simply be that whilst the candidate was good, others were just a bit stronger this year, which would at least provide encouragement to keep going and try again next year. Central, Rambert and RCS all conduct a physio assessment. I think they have a moral obligation to pass on any issues that the physio has picked up on that the candidate may not be aware of. 

[Picturesinthefirelight]

SLP college in Leeds offered a short feedback session at the end of the audition day. 

[meadowblythe]

I guess what we have all proved is that reducing fees is not necessarily the answer - unless places will provide travel expenses too.  However, this goes back to the age-old question - is it possible to get to a standard to succeed as a dancer (or musician), auditioning at 16, unless parents have invested a considerable sum in lessons/shoes/petrol/whatever? 

 

 I guess those going to vocational school early will benefit the most, especially as raw talent will be the deciding factor at that stage, and vocational schools are more adept at finding the opportunities and funding.

 

Music schools do offer feedback, sometimes written sometimes verbal, and it's seen as part of the audition process - particularly these days when postgraduate courses are considered in the same breath as undergraduate.   Admittedly all auditionees will, at some point, be performing in a solo role.  Musical D  said that the written feedback was largely that she was given verbally during the day, when she had a chat with a head of department and covered group as well as solo tasks.  If notes are taken, whilst I appreciate Nichola H's point about even a few minutes  per auditionee adds up, if you are taking significant sums of money for an audition, and feedback is available,  scanning a sheet into a copier and then emailing this seems a reasonable compromise.   

[sarahw]

I assume candidates are scored on a standard system. Copies of these could be emailed to parents. They wouldn't be obliged to give further comment. If Lane can do it why can't the others?

[Anon2]

1 hour ago, sarahw said:

I assume candidates are scored on a standard system. Copies of these could be emailed to parents. They wouldn't be obliged to give further comment. If Lane can do it why can't the others?

Royal Ballet School, Antwerp do this with the scoring criteria. 

[MrsMoo2]

Yeah, I’m not meaning a full report, just a quick call or a couple of lines in the “no” letter to give a few pointers as to what to work on in the future. I can dream! 😂😂

 

[Boys_can_dance]

It is certainly possible, I sometimes get the feeling they don’t want to leave themselves open to criticism. DS auditioned in Berlin last year, and was given feedback straight away, with a recommendation to work on upper body flexibility, and try again next year, and they had 4 dates of I don’t know how many children from all over the world. They don’t do prelims, either. 

He was this year accepted by Hamburg, and they also gave feedback and accept/decline straight away. It’s a British thing, I fear. We did feel it was worth attending the audition  just to get some decent feedback! 

(Edit to say, we chose German schools due to the expense of British schools- would have loved  British school, but earn too much for decent amount of MDS, and various other kids)

Edited April 11, 2018 by Boys_can_dance

[meadowblythe]

Interesting article in The Stage, covering many of the issues raised here.

 

https://www.thestage.co.uk/advice/2018/west-end-producer-drama-schools-abolish-audition-fees/?utm_source=newsletter1&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter1

 

It's obviously a live issue across many disciplines.

[Peanut68]

Slightly off topic but I feel related to student Feedback....why does the RAD no longer provide any further critique beyond scoring elements of exams? 8 out of 10 for Performance for instance would be of greater use if supported by a one liner to suggest what was good/could improve it, such as 'good timing, now try to raise eyeline'. They used to give quite a detailed written report (similar to Trinity music/drama exams for even the low grades back in my day. So useful to support teachers & manage child/parent expectations & also frankly shows the examiner has been engaged. Now I know there is a fine line to be found as it is disconcerting if during an exam an examiner is writing as they may miss seeing the best/worst bits. So, what about always DVD' ing exams for re-watching afterwards whilst report writing to ensure full attention on the dancing in the actual exam itself. Now, yes, more time but surely the well over £80 fee for each candidate (often 4 per session) for vocational exams could justify this? If not possible for each section then even just a final box with an overall little summary (eg. "Strong barre work. Look to maintain turnout in the centre & work to keep weight central to secure pirouettes." ) Potentially may not provide much but I bet your bottom dollar that it will reflect corrections often given by teacher & will finally get remedial action from student as seeing it down on paper & from an exam will usually kick starts change!! Welcome other's thoughts.....

Auditions similar.....surely a few line summary would be so useful as I am sure that even with a class of 20+ they can draw out a couple of elements fro each dancer...maybe a positive & a pointer for improvement?

[balletbean]

Just reflecting on a few posts suggesting a few comments re exams and auditions. Whilst I support the idea in principle however,  in reality (professional world) a dancer can be rejected from an initial lineup let alone an opportunity to dance. Without any rhyme or reason. So maybe it’s a good practice to get into not expecting a report every time  . Self- evaluation and hopefully teachers who see them regularly will have picked up in their little lapses in technique/performance. Afterall the exam results can come 6 weeks after the exam and the pupils have moved on.  Barely able to remember the event. Teenagers (can be the worst)

 

Good luck to all those as the exam season comes around again especially those who have balanced GCSE’s, auditions and then the ballet exams. 🙆‍♀️  That’s an achievement in itself. 

 

[Moneypenny]

2 hours ago, balletbean said:

in reality (professional world) a dancer can be rejected from an initial lineup let alone an opportunity to dance. Without any rhyme or reason. So maybe it’s a good practice to get into not expecting a report every time  .

 

Company auditions are brutal, you will spend money on flights, hotels etc only to turn up and be cut after barre. No explanation, nothing, just bye bye. At other auditions you will make it to the end, only to be told they will get back to you and you never hear from them again. And then there are auditions where the AD is barely in the room for more than a few minutes. 

[balletbean]

9 hours ago, Moneypenny said:

 

Company auditions are brutal, you will spend money on flights, hotels etc only to turn up and be cut after barre. No explanation, nothing, just bye bye. At other auditions you will make it to the end, only to be told they will get back to you and you never hear from them again. And then there are auditions where the AD is barely in the room for more than a few minutes. 

Totally agree, I had tried with my eldest when they went to an open audition, was one of 4 kept back after all day audition and interview, costume fitting, contract of employment talked about, living, health care overseas, travel, the full works incl start date, "we shall be in touch........"  Then nothing.  The performing arts industry is totally brutal. No matter the level of training I don't think anything really prepares the performer. Some days they can brush it off as just one of those things but when there are bills to pay and it's the upteenth audition and possible knockback of the week this can challenge the most hardiest of characters.

Edited April 22, 2018 by balletbean

[hfbrew]

2 minutes ago, balletbean said:

Totally agree, I had tried with my eldest when they went to an open audition, was one of 4 kept back after all day audition and interview, costume fitting, contract of employment talked about, living, health care overseas, travel, the full works incl start date, "we shall be in touch........"  Then nothing.  The performing arts industry is totally brutal. No matter the level of training I don't think anything really prepares the performer. Some days they can crush it off as just one of those things but when there are bills to pay and it's the upteenth audition and possible knockback of the week this can challenge the most hardiest of characters.

This is so sadly true having spent considerable time trying to find the right words of encouragement to a pessimistic ds as he once again approaches the rollercoaster ride of auditions. And he is a seasoned performer! 

And even when you get a contract it's not plain sailing. Years ago at the summer school I used to run I used to get people who had been successful in getting major roles in shows . One explained that he was among the last to know when the AD decided to replace him!

Quite agree with balletbean that the process of auditions can challenge the most hardiest of characters and once you actually get work the life really is very hard work . 

 

[Moneypenny]

They need resilience and tenacity by the bucket load. And as you say, when they do get work, it is incredibly hard work!

[Ellie]

I think that we're going a bit off topic, but just to add to the comments made by balletbean, moneypenny and hfbrew...I feel that it's very important for the parents of DC to be aware of the money/heartache/persistence involved when it comes to auditioning for contracts. Unless you are one of the very talented and lucky few who are handpicked by AD's to join a particular company straight out of school, the struggle to be accepted for an audition, not get cut after class, be invited to learn rep and pdd is very real ! And don't forget that the graduates who are accepted to audition are most likely to be 'up against' dancers who have already been dancing professionally for a couple of years and wish to change company/country for whatever reason. x